David Scott

Maybe. But first to paraphrase a well known phrase, the religion of Pavis is not the Religion of the Pavis Cult. We know he was born of a specialist breeding program and ultimately he was a sorcerer from the EWF. As such, Pavis is presented in Pavis GtA is a sorcerous cult. He's still there inside his crystal sphere. I think of it like a stasis chamber - immortality at the expense of inaction, like a fake piece of Godtime, an almost infinite spell of longevity. You can visit him in his timeless state if you're an initiate. He's clearly worshipped and so receives power from his followers. In return I think gives the City Harmony rune spell although he was a sorcerer. It's weird side effect of his temple. Does he act like a Wyter, No. Do the spirits of his dead worshippers act like one, sure why not. They've made him into something else. I don't think he teaches any other rune magic, but his grimoires live on. His protective magic was already in place on the city before he died. I think flintnail maintains it if needed.

You need to activate the special signal for help on this - calling mr. Suitcase, calling mr. Suitcase ( @Rick Meints ).

Ben Bulbin in that picture is about 520 metres tall, however the point where the photo was taken (likely from the road) is about 120 metres above sea level, so it's only a 400 metre elevation we're looking at. The northern edge of the Hungry Plateau is roughly 5000 feet above sea level (1520m) but it sits on the 2000 foot contour (please correct me if Im wrong) so it has an equivalent rise of 3000 feet (914m). So it's a good scale comparison being that the real Hungry Plateau is roughly twice the height. Fortunately there is nothing in sight to affect the illusion of scale. Ben Bulbin: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.3633137,-8.4743102,14.21z/data=!5m1!1e4 The scale for the Argan Argar Atlas is here: http://www.glorantha.com/legend-for-argan-argar-atlas/ It's in metric as that is what I was taught. I never got the hang of the weird Imperial measurements.

KoS 2ed says that Saronil bargained with the Dwarves for their building spells (p32). It then goes on to say that he learnt new techniques for building towers (p114), and built a keep and a road. It was using his skills building the new Orlanth temple that earned the enmity of the Dwarfs and they deserted him. It then goes on to say that he died while rescuing his granddaughter from "the strangers" who were "possibly dwarves trying to exact their old vengeance against the king". I would speculate that the building spells he learned were for making towers and roads. The dwarves supported him in making a keep, which is a fat tower. It was the temple that caused the problem and when they deserted him, leaving him to do it on his own. That looks like his last construction and then perhaps his magic went without dwarf support. I like the idea that this infers to me that dwarf magic is cooperative. It says that much later Londario built man-powered cranes. Otherwise no mention of cranes and winches. What's your reference for this?

Of course, but you need the genius idea hence my question of do only simple pulleys exist. They existed for quite a while without that advance. going along with @M Helsdon's idea that innovation isn't normal in Glorantha, I don't think that this logical evolution exists.

But we know they must have these as there's not another way for the transmission to work in a mill. Unless you know of a primitive technology to do this. I believe that wooden toothed cogs in mills exist. Metal ones with teeth are the domain of the Dwarfs. IIRC we've been through the whole windmill thing before and they are not Gloranthan except that one picture by William Church. As for horizontal windmills...

oops division error by me

Are Orlanthi chariots solid or spoked? The Sintashta Culture which seems to have the first spoked chariots, seems to fall slightly outside (although I may be wrong) the 3rd century BC cutoff that @M Helsdon has suggested (and that I think is a good line). I'm not trying to be rigid in definitions here, just trying to get a feel for the technology. https://erenow.com/ancient/the-horse-the-wheel-and-language/15.html

I don't have any problem with Water wheels as they are in the Guide, but also they are roughly 3rd-4th Century BC in the form of the Noria Water mills of course exist and then so must the gearing to convert the vertical drive into the horizontal turn of the millstones. So Glorantha likely has a crude toothed cog in water mills. One of the Lismelder clan has a dwarf built mill. Gears seem to originate in 4th Century BC china and later in 3rd Century BC Greece. Readers may find this book interesting http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30001/30001-h/30001-h.htm. The implication within, is that the Chinese were casting gears in the 4th Century BC, but I wonder if the non-dwarf version is an evolution of the spoked wheel. The spoked wheel has evidence from the 3rd Century BC as well https://www.harappa.com/content/wheeled-vehicles-indus-valley-civilization.

As an aside, I recently downloaded all of the Yahoo Groups I was a member of to make searchable archives (along with the various Glorantha & RQ digests of old). You may want to check out: http://yahoogroupedia.pbworks.com/w/page/93006447/Chrome Application To Download Messages

I'd agree here. It would likely be a matter of supply though. Although I don't think carapace would expand when wet. I don't believe bore-worms exist in Glorantha other than some chaotic menace. How do you attach it? Good ideas.

So simple or compound pulleys on Glorantha ships?

So only the Dwarves have the water screw?

I'm not sure that this kind of metallurgy exists in Glorantha. I believe that bronze just two metals and a much simpler alloying process there. I'm a great believer in that Glorantha is missing many of the processes we use as the building blocks of the world are much simpler. I think it unlikely that arsenic exists given the limitation of the runes. For complex alloying processes I'd go with adding other runes as the impurity if I really needed it.

So Heron is too late, perhaps the equivalent of Dwarf technology. It's the cut off point that interests me. 3rd century BC may have the compound pulley. This would certainly change the way ships work. I totally agree with this. This why I'm asking what does exist.

I agree with this, however I'm looking at what exists rather that what magic can do with it.

over in Esrolian Merchant ships (https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/7379-esrolian-merchant-ships/) the discussion eventually got to X was invented in y BC, so we can have it in Glorantha. I'm not knocking that approach but it got me thinking about what are the actual limits of Glorantha technology. @jeffjerwin said For example I'm not doubting that cranes exist in Glorantha, but what I'm interested in is does Glorantha have more than the simple pulley that Mesopotamians used for hauling water (1500 BC). Have they invented or acquired from Dwarves the compound pulley described by archimedes (250 BCish). Likewise do they have a knowledge of simple machines like those listed by Heron of Alexandria - lever, windlass, pulley, wedge, and screw. The use of the screw means we can have olive and apple presses. Also @Joerg said: This idea of other materials is part of this - is scaling up chitin based legs and carapaces reallygoing to work? how do yo fasten them together?

Chaosium did a D20 version called Dragon Lords of Melnibone in 2001. There was also a supplement called Slaves of Fate by @Jason Durall. These could form the basis for 13th Age if needed. There's some info at this excellent site: http://www.stormbringerrpg.com. I was going to recommend this thread https://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-709959.html but it seems you are already there. I looked briefly at running Stormbringer using 13th Age for a group of D20 players. However once I looked back at Elric! I didnt have the heart to do it.

Ignoring all editions except HQ2, as it’s my favourite system. It lacks expansions in the form of accessible genre packs. I don’t mean full sourcebooks like mythic Russia, HeroQuest Glorantha or nameless streets. But much more simple write ups much like the style of games for Hillfolk and DramaSystem. Two sides of A4 at most and a website to host them.

@Jason Durall's design notes are excellent and leads us through the complex array of historical design and current thinking. I look forward to the complete cover as currently this has the feeling of watching someone choosing a hat to wear. You'd look better in that old hat, new hat, a different hat, a hat my mother had, a different material, it looks like this hat, you don't want a hat you want a scarf, my hat is nicer than your hat, etc. The complete outfit is what I want (at some point). It will undoubtedly be eye catching, have a name badge identifying the authors and a Chaosium brooch and most will buy it anyway even if it had a unicorn hat. (apologies for not using the new logo, it didn't fit in with my unicorn theme and I couldn't find a pink Chaosium logo)

It's also easy to skew the figures. I was able to create 1500 posts by starting the Guide to Glorantha group read. In a couple of months that swelled the numbers. Once RQG comes out, I would expect to see a massive increase there. CoC is clearly the number one seller for Chaosium and until its reboot it looked like it was its only major product line. BRP and its spinoffs were never huge . Remember that RQ hasn't been in-house since Mongoose got the licence, likewise HeroQuest belongs to Moon Design (as does runequest). It's only now with MD jump starting Chaosium that these products are back in the same house and that old lines are appearing such as board games. We'll have to wait and see what effect that has on popularity of the games especially with new product on the horizon. I hope to see an expansion in discussion in these forums.

If NPCs I'd not give them values as usual, If important perhaps a few notes and a distinguishing feature - Young and curious or teenager and sulky, etc. They are covered on page 61 of HQ2 - Dependants. Lots of ways of doing this - Followers Child 17, Teenager 17, etc. If an important child of a PC, I'd treat them as a sidekick HQ2 page 64.

So here in the UK you can buy it. Ah... and now I can't...

It's in the original box, Pavis and Big Rubble (MD) but not Pavis GtA.

Pavis Threshold to Danger (Chaosium 1983 Boxed set). OOP, but like likely to appear as a PDF in the RuneQuest Classics if I know @Rick Meints. Pavis and Big Rubble (Moon Design 1999 Hard & Softback). OOP, not likely to be reprinted it wasn't digitally printed. Discussed elsewhere. Pavis: Gateway to Adventure (Moon Design 2012 Softback & PDF). Both currently available from Chaosium: https://www.chaosium.com/pavis-gateway-to-adventure/