Experiences of playing Chalana Arroy cultists

[Bill the barbarian]

On 10/7/2020 at 9:06 AM, davecake said:

But an Ernalda cultist or similar can often be an easier option - healing spells good, if not as good as CA, but also much more flexible, often quite happy to fully support their warrior companions, and with  a range of options for combat magic. 

Thanks dcaecake I like that and will it mention to want-to-be-healers that this might be the way to go.

[Darius West]

On 10/9/2020 at 3:15 AM, lordabdul said:

Was she always like this, or did she start with good intentions and only got bad and twisted after a while?

Milixia was always a pretty bad person.  She was an ambitious brat from the squalid alleys of Nochet. Any charity or decency was beaten out of her by Nochet's class war. I always assumed she joined Chalana Arroy because of the social advantages it provided in Esrolia.  She couldn't get that far joining Ernalda unless she had the social contacts (which she didn't).  It was either Chalana Arroy or Lanbril, so she opted for a bit of column a and a bit from column b.  I checked if with my GM if he could cope with me playing a morally reprehensible Chalana Arroy character, and we discussed a number of points about the cult and its restrictions prior to me playing Milixia.  In retrospect I think he gave too much ground on what constituted Healer's Protection on sleeped npcs. I don't generally play "bad guys", and Milixia was a memorable change of pace.

On 10/9/2020 at 3:15 AM, lordabdul said:

The only time I've seen someone pick Chalana Arroy for their character, the player said that it was indeed some "interesting" restrictions and wanted to see how it would play. Sadly, the games were short lived for boring organizational reasons so the player didn't get to try much (but still wants to).

I got the idea for Milixia many years ago when GMing Borderlands for friends.  One of them had a hazia addicted Chalana Arroy girlfriend at Horn Gate. He would visit her when on long range patrol for Raus.  The gf did some fairly questionable things over time and it began to dawn on me that a Chalana Arroy could have dimensions most combat oriented characters never really developed.  I had seen other players have really greedy Chalana Arroys before, but the notion of a truly morally reprehensible character who traded on favors and cash appealed to me.  I didn't expect Milixia to be quite as successful as she was, but I had run the GM through a number of intrigue heavy campaigns in the past, and he really seemed to rise to the occasion.  I think he was a little disappointed when we agreed to let Milixia and the boys die.

[coffeemancer]

dont CA cultists know Judo?

[Lordabdul]

4 hours ago, coffeemancer said:

dont CA cultists know Judo?

I'm not aware of that but I think it could be possible, to make a CA cultist a bit more viable in a more combat-heavy campaign, that the GM allows CA characters to have non-lethal combat skills and techniques.... mmmh 🤔

[coffeemancer]

43 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

I'm not aware of that but I think it could be possible, to make a CA cultist a bit more viable in a more combat-heavy campaign, that the GM allows CA characters to have non-lethal combat skills and techniques.... mmmh 🤔

I just remembered the pc game KING OF DRAGON PASS you could learn "fighting without fighting" in tje CA heroquest and seem to remember it being very kung-fu but I could be misremembering.

Anyhow, wrestling someone into submission is very pacifistic!

[Dissolv]

51 minutes ago, coffeemancer said:

Anyhow, wrestling someone into submission is very pacifistic!

I'm not sure everyone who has done wrestling would agree with that!  However this is likely one of those "internal disagreement" things.  I can imagine some Chalana Arroy temples teaching never touching a weapon, while others would advocate a shield as acceptable, while still others might allow more borderline actions such as grappling with the intent for restraint.  There is certainly room in Glorantha for that sort of disagreement, and it might spice up the campaign with CA PC's a bit.  😉

I would definitely want a Kraloria influence before we can even talk Judo.  Advanced unarmed combat is commonly associated with the Far East these days, but it wasn't true at all historically.  There is a ton of wrestling in every ancient fighting tradition, because it the only thing that makes any sense to do if you lose your weapon.  In fact in my campaigns the PC's who eventually picked up the "extra" skills of first dodge (for giant fighting), and then grapple (for when you lose your weapon/had to kill a Telmori with your bare hands) were the greatest of all the warriors ever in any of my campaigns. 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

@Darius West I like your story of Miluxia.

Did you discuss with the GM whether being a drug dealer and slaver is "causing harm" to others?

My first ever RQ games featured a CA who was extremely blunt and undiplomatic and "accidently" started lots of fights by insulting the other side.  "Geez, trolls really are ugly!"

[Scorus]

Okay, here is where I get myself banned:

For me, Chalana Arroy always seemed more like a character class than a cult. Every other cultist can fight, use magic, use holy magic, use skills, etc. That is what people always point to that RQ broke the D&D mold on. But CA has things that only they can do and things that everyone but them can do.

Absolutely a good role-player can have a lot of fun with CA in a good role-playing campaign, just as they can with any kind of character that they identify with. I think it adds a lot of work to the GM to keep them engaged, more than a non-combatant LM or Issaries character for instance. And depending on how much of a pacifist they are, it can be a great source of party tension, if you are looking for that. Are they going to turn a blind eye when their friends are initiating combat against non-chaos? Are they going to heal them so they can go initiate more combat and death? Is their goddess okay with that? It will be interesting to see how CA is written up in Gods of Glorantha, whether it echoes some of the stuff in Cults of Prax and HeroQuest that didn't make it into the brief cult profiles in RQG.

[coffeemancer]

7 hours ago, Dissolv said:

I'm not sure everyone who has done wrestling would agree with that!  However this is likely one of those "internal disagreement" things.  I can imagine some Chalana Arroy temples teaching never touching a weapon, while others would advocate a shield as acceptable, while still others might allow more borderline actions such as grappling with the intent for restraint.  There is certainly room in Glorantha for that sort of disagreement, and it might spice up the campaign with CA PC's a bit.  😉

I would definitely want a Kraloria influence before we can even talk Judo.  Advanced unarmed combat is commonly associated with the Far East these days, but it wasn't true at all historically.  There is a ton of wrestling in every ancient fighting tradition, because it the only thing that makes any sense to do if you lose your weapon.  In fact in my campaigns the PC's who eventually picked up the "extra" skills of first dodge (for giant fighting), and then grapple (for when you lose your weapon/had to kill a Telmori with your bare hands) were the greatest of all the warriors ever in any of my campaigns. 

Hec,k even the norse had a sysyem of wrestling called Glipa

[soltakss]

9 hours ago, Scorus said:

Okay, here is where I get myself banned:

You are going to have to do a lot, lot better than that, I am afraid.

9 hours ago, Scorus said:

For me, Chalana Arroy always seemed more like a character class than a cult. Every other cultist can fight, use magic, use holy magic, use skills, etc. That is what people always point to that RQ broke the D&D mold on. But CA has things that only they can do and things that everyone but them can do.

One of our Players, who has played a lot of D&D, thinks that Cults in Glorantha are a lot like Character Classes in D&D. That is probably why 13th Age Glorantha works so well.

9 hours ago, Scorus said:

Are they going to turn a blind eye when their friends are initiating combat against non-chaos? Are they going to heal them so they can go initiate more combat and death? Is their goddess okay with that?

That is really something that should be answered at the gaming table and is different for every game. 

For me, a Chalana Arroy cultists being a pacifist means they don't fight, except against Undead and Chaos. They are happy for other people to fight. Some might even be happy to help other people as medics, or similar. That is the attitude I am taking when I play my Chalana Arroy cultist.

12 hours ago, lordabdul said:

17 hours ago, coffeemancer said:

dont CA cultists know Judo?

I'm not aware of that but I think it could be possible, to make a CA cultist a bit more viable in a more combat-heavy campaign, that the GM allows CA characters to have non-lethal combat skills and techniques.... mmmh 🤔

I have considered that, using Grapple to restrain combatants, but I am torn with it being something sensible to learn and going against the non-combat principles. Similarly, using a net to capture and restrain opponents.

[Baron Wulfraed]

5 hours ago, soltakss said:

I have considered that, using Grapple to restrain combatants, but I am torn with it being something sensible to learn and going against the non-combat principles. Similarly, using a net to capture and restrain opponents.

With visions of Fluttershy tossing Harry Bear to the ground and twisting his head

"Stay down, I'm trying to loosen up some of your stiff muscles"

[soltakss]

3 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

With visions of Fluttershy tossing Harry Bear to the ground and twisting his head

"Stay down, I'm trying to loosen up some of your stiff muscles"

"It's for your own good!"

[Bohemond]

I am currently running an HQ campaign with a Chalana PC. This can be somewhat challenging, because if played as written, the CA should be opposed to combat and should be seeking peaceful resolution to most conflicts. It can be a very interesting dynamic to have someone actively pushing back against the usual murderhobo style of play that dominates fantasy campaigning, but it can also be frustrating because it interferes with scenarios that emphasize violent conflict. One option would be to build the campaign around the CA as a peacemaker, with the other PCs as bodyguards or assistants. 

However, if you group really wants to do traditional murderhobo adventuring, my advice is to tell the CA player that your campaign probably isn't a good fit for that campaign. 

[soltakss]

5 hours ago, Bohemond said:

However, if you group really wants to do traditional murderhobo adventuring, my advice is to tell the CA player that your campaign probably isn't a good fit for that campaign. 

Even murderhobos need healing.

Wandering Adventurers are not always a bad idea, in fact they are often a good idea.

Although tying Adventurers into a Clan is one of the cornerstones of RQG, sometimes you have a band of Adventurers wandering around.

I see no reason why a Chalana Arroy Initiate can't join them. Even a Priestess makes sense, if the Priestess is not tied to a temple, she can be a wandering healer, able to serve those not able to get to a temple.

[French Desperate WindChild]

6 hours ago, soltakss said:

Even murderhobos need healing.

Wandering Adventurers are not always a bad idea, in fact they are often a good idea.

Although tying Adventurers into a Clan is one of the cornerstones of RQG, sometimes you have a band of Adventurers wandering around.

I see no reason why a Chalana Arroy Initiate can't join them. Even a Priestess makes sense, if the Priestess is not tied to a temple, she can be a wandering healer, able to serve those not able to get to a temple.

there is a difference between healing my friends and wishing then end of disease / suffering / war / fight / (death ?) in the world

so a chalana arroy initiates may or not be a good tool for murderhobos.

 

I see two kind of CA cultits : people like @Darius West 's Milixia who search CA power for their own cause (their group or just themself)  and people who follows really / fully the CA way .
 

"Murderhobos" would appreciate the first ones, if the cause is the group AND if the cultist can heal but would not like to be stopped by their healer to kill someone before trying to convince the target to go elsewhere / decide differently (second case)

Depending how the gods react in a table (are they conscious ? can they read their worshippers intention ? etc...), the power of "bad guys" should be refused by chalana (or not)

That's why I would suggest an ernaldan healer for murderhobos : heal the clan / family / group is different than heal everybody

 

 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

8 hours ago, soltakss said:

I see no reason why a Chalana Arroy Initiate can't join them. Even a Priestess makes sense, if the Priestess is not tied to a temple, she can be a wandering healer, able to serve those not able to get to a temple.

I like the idea of "wandering healer".  But in service to an entire clan or tribe, not a group of murderhobo adventurers.

Also, **technically**, a Priestess is tied to a Temple.  At least 90%.  But a God-Talker could easily be wandering.

[ffilz]

But you don't need a Chalana Arroy member for healing. Anyone can pick up healing, and there are other cults you can get the rune magic from.

My play group has an Aldryami which is a pretty effective healer, now of course you can argue what is an Aldryami doing among non-Aldryami, but at least there the strictures aren't as rigid as Chalana Arroy, plus I run a Glorantha that doesn't assume all the changes to Glorantha from what was presented in RuneQuest 1st edition...

And yea, if you want a more clan oriented healer, sounds like Ernalda may be a good choice (of course I'm hampered without an RQ2 Ernalda write up...).

[Bohemond]

16 hours ago, soltakss said:

Even murderhobos need healing.

Wandering Adventurers are not always a bad idea, in fact they are often a good idea.

Although tying Adventurers into a Clan is one of the cornerstones of RQG, sometimes you have a band of Adventurers wandering around.

I see no reason why a Chalana Arroy Initiate can't join them. Even a Priestess makes sense, if the Priestess is not tied to a temple, she can be a wandering healer, able to serve those not able to get to a temple.

Yeah but that's a bit like a nun accompanying a bunch of bikers on their rampage across the country in case they need some help. It's hard to justify a CA accompanying a band of murderhobos. There are certainly ways to plan a campaign where a CA fits in, but a traditional group of kill em and take their stuff adventurers is a real stretch for a goddess devoted to pacifism. 

[Scorus]

16 hours ago, Bohemond said:

Yeah but that's a bit like a nun accompanying a bunch of bikers on their rampage across the country in case they need some help. It's hard to justify a CA accompanying a band of murderhobos. There are certainly ways to plan a campaign where a CA fits in, but a traditional group of kill em and take their stuff adventurers is a real stretch for a goddess devoted to pacifism. 

The CA write-up in Cults of Prax expressly forbid it. The one in HeroQuest led away from it also, though I don't remember the exact text off the top of my head. I'd be surprised if Gods of Glorantha didn't go in that direction, though RQG did lift the Befuddle/Sleep restriction on chaos creatures which I don't remember seeing in previous versions.

[ffilz]

5 minutes ago, Scorus said:

The CA write-up in Cults of Prax expressly forbid it. The one in HeroQuest led away from it also, though I don't remember the exact text off the top of my head. I'd be surprised if Gods of Glorantha didn't go in that direction, though RQG did lift the Befuddle/Sleep restriction on chaos creatures which I don't remember seeing in previous versions.

Yea, I seem to remember an early Q&A about Chalana Arroy and chaos and they weren't even allowed to attack chaos creatures. Yea, Advice from Rurik in Wyrms Footnotes #13. An exception is made for undead with the note that very orthodox Chalana Arroy adherents might not even take up arms against undead.

[Jape_Vicho]

28 minutes ago, ffilz said:

Yea, I seem to remember an early Q&A about Chalana Arroy and chaos and they weren't even allowed to attack chaos creatures. Yea, Advice from Rurik in Wyrms Footnotes #13. An exception is made for undead with the note that very orthodox Chalana Arroy adherents might not even take up arms against undead.

Isn't there a story obout CA stopping Urox from killing a Chaos deity in KoDP? 

[Goldennose]

We have an initiate of Chalana Arroy in our Six Seasons group. I was wondering, is it possible for him to become also a shaman of White Hart? Is spirit combat violation of CA code?

Edited October 14, 2020 by Caras

[Akhôrahil]

5 hours ago, Caras said:

We have an initiate of Chalana Arroy in our Six Seasons group. I was wondering, is it possible for him to become also a shaman of White Hart? Is spirit combat violation of CA code?

This is a really good question. It used to be POW vs. POW, which is clearly allowed, but Spirit Combat seems trickier, not to mention inherently being violent conflict resolution. On the other hand, things would turn weird if CA initiates couldn’t fight Spirit Combat even when attacked, as that would leave them wide open to possession.

I would be inclined to allow it, on the grounds that Spirit Combat is more of an abstraction than outright violence. One could still argue about whether binding unwilling spirits would be okay, though.

[Akhôrahil]

On 10/13/2020 at 3:23 AM, Bohemond said:

Yeah but that's a bit like a nun accompanying a bunch of bikers on their rampage across the country

Oh, I know that game!

[SMW]

5 hours ago, Caras said:

We have an initiate of Chalana Arroy in our Six Seasons group. I was wondering, is it possible for him to become also a shaman of White Hart? Is spirit combat violation of CA code?

The write-up in River of Cradles allowed a CA initiate to become a shaman.  Further more, Resurrect requires spirit combat to force the dearly departed back into their body.