Stay tuned in the coming days for a major announcement about the King Arthur Pendragon RPG

[Morien]

6 minutes ago, Leingod said:

Or at least is probably from any number of steppe peoples active in the area like the Avars, Bulgars, Magyars, etc. that would often be lumped in with the Huns.

Avars start their conquest of Pannonia around Twilight Period. Pannonia (Carpathian Basin) was ruled by the Gepids before that. Magyars shouldn't show up until latter half of 800s, and they settle in Pannonia at the end of that century. So they'd definitely be anachronistic. I'd much rather have Huns (or Bulgars, below) running around as mercenaries in the Roman armies that Arthur fights than Magyars.

Bulgars have been around in Byzantine sources since late 400s, and are often used interchangeably with Huns, as you pointed out.

[Leingod]

Incidentally, while it happens pretty late in the Pendragon timeline, Christian monks working for Emperor Justinian smuggle silkworm eggs out of China (assisted by contacts in Sogdiana) and start the Byzantine Empire's indigenous silk industry in the mid-550s. Which a.) is just in time to contribute to the stunning decadence of Arthur's court in the Twilight Period, and b.) is a good example of just how much more connected East and West were than we often tend to imagine (likely because it's the kinds of people who usually don't write or get written about who did all this traveling).

After all, those (likely Nestorian) monks had previously spent years in India, then went to China in 551 and learned the secrets of sericulture (previously the Romans had actively believed silk was cultivated in India), then went to Constantinople a year or two later and made a deal with Justinian to make a smuggling run for him, which they pulled off in about 2 years or so. With stuff like that in mind, there's any number of ways to justify people from parts pretty far east showing up in Britain (especially given how incredibly rich and famous Arthur and his court are supposed to be), albeit more likely as traders peddling exotic wares rather than mercenaries or foreign knights.

1 minute ago, Morien said:

Avars start their conquest of Pannonia around Twilight Period. Pannonia (Carpathian Basin) was ruled by the Gepids before that. Magyars shouldn't show up until latter half of 800s, and they settle in Pannonia at the end of that century. So they'd definitely be anachronistic. I'd much rather have Huns (or Bulgars, below) running around as mercenaries in the Roman armies that Arthur fights than Magyars.

Bulgars have been around in Byzantine sources since late 400s, and are often used interchangeably with Huns, as you pointed out.

Right, thanks. The migrations of the steppe peoples in Eastern Europe isn't something I'm all that familiar with.

[Morien]

3 minutes ago, Leingod said:

With stuff like that in mind, there's any number of ways to justify people from parts pretty far east showing up in Britain (especially given how incredibly rich and famous Arthur and his court are supposed to be), albeit more likely as traders peddling exotic wares rather than mercenaries or foreign knights.

Yep, quite agreed with this, as well as with the earlier idea of having some Hunnic visitors earlier. Arthur does fight the Romans and in GPC, they have Magyar horse archers at Saussy. Easy enough to make them Huns, especially since they use the same stats anyway.

Also, when it comes to depictions, unfortunately the pictures in BoK&L are not that great when it comes to Huns... it looks more like a Spanish Conquistador talking to a Longbowman in a fantasy helmet. I'd definitely hope that they'd replace this with a more Turkic or even Mongolian look if the Huns come up again as a playable culture. Given that the Picts in Pendragon perhaps owe more to Robert E. Howard (IMHO, "Howard's descriptions of the later Picts portray them as very small in height, squat and muscular, adept at silent movement, and most of all brutish and uncivilized,") than Roman sources (tall blondes or redheads), I would be quite happy to see some East Asian / Mongolian features on the Huns. Of course, a mix of appearances would be best to represent the complex population mixture, as well as avoid accusations of racism of having Huns as the 'Yellow Peril', hence getting basically condemned for having tried to be inclusive.

Portraying some Chinese merchants in Arthur's court, perhaps in Tournament or in Twilight would work, too.

[Leingod]

35 minutes ago, Morien said:

Portraying some Chinese merchants in Arthur's court, perhaps in Tournament or in Twilight would work, too.

Even as early as the Boy King period, you could perhaps say that Merlin brings back some friends from his travels during the Anarchy.

Quote

Likely he travels through France, visiting powerful old druid sites, perhaps going among the Merovingian Franks. He may go to Ganis, and certainly plans to go to  Rome.  Afterward,  perhaps  he  goes  to  Egypt  for  the secrets  of  Hermes  Trismigestus,  or  even  to  Babylon  to study the stars, or maybe even farther, to sit among the rishis and sages of India.

So you could potentially have Egyptian Hermetics, Babylonian astronomers, Indian gurus (of any number of differing traditions), and perhaps even more, all attached to Arthur's court from the beginning. Which would probably be used by Lot and others as yet more ammunition against him, framing him as a puppet not just to Merlin but of a whole weird cadre of foreign sorcerers led by Merlin. Not to mention what churchmen like Dubricius would think of that.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Leingod

[Ian Absentia]

I think we're now discussing a Prince Valiant campaign.  Which is cool, but...

!i!

[KungFuFenris]

1 minute ago, Ian Absentia said:

I think we're now discussing a Prince Valiant campaign.  Which is cool, but...

!i!

We're really not. YPMV. 

But, more to the point, having Asian descendants in the Arthurian legends ain't hard to figure out 

[Leingod]

20 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

I think we're now discussing a Prince Valiant campaign.  Which is cool, but...

!i!

I mean, there are knights from all over the (known) world attending the Grail Feast, according to Geoffrey of Monmouth Arthur conquered not only Western Europe but Scandinavia, you've got some prominent African and Eastern European knights, at the very start of Arthur's reign a noble from Greece (Sagramore) heard about how awesome he was and wanted to come see it for himself and ended up spending the rest of his life there, and so on. A lot of pre-modern takes on Arthuriana have been very cosmopolitan, and ironically it's the more modern stuff that's tended to make Arthur's Britain a lot smaller and more insular than that.

[MelronPeredor]

The Tandareis and Flordibel also has Flordibel daughter of the king of far away India sent as a lady in waiting to Guenever. So not China or Korea but east nonetheless. The Arthurian litterature is very cosmopolitan in general with people from all over showing up at the court of Arthur or with Arthurian knights going to the ends of the Earth.

[redmoongoddess]

On 10/22/2020 at 3:21 PM, mandrill_one said:

Thanks for the summary, @redmoongoddess! By all means, do it for the new rules as well!

The book of magic is called Codex Mirabilis, and if I recall correctly, there’s also a book on religious magic in the works, called Codex Sanctus or something similar. This latter one should be at a much earlier stage of completion.

You're welcome!

And, do you recall where you might've heard about the Sanctus book?

[sirlarkins]

On 10/23/2020 at 11:36 PM, redmoongoddess said:

You're welcome!

And, do you recall where you might've heard about the Sanctus book?

I imagine I mentioned it in some interview or comment... 

My hope is to get Sanctus and Mirabilis finished and published around the same time, as they're sister volumes. There will be a chapter in the Core Rulebook covering magic and miracles as well, by way of a preview of the expanded treatment those topics will receive in the two books.

[Luca Cherstich]

On 10/23/2020 at 12:06 AM, redmoongoddess said:

Anyways, I listened to the podcast posted earlier, and I felt like writing a run down of announcements made regarding new books there. Note that there's also a lot of interesting things announced about the new edition in general that I've not mentioned here, as I'm away from my computer atm and can't access my full notes. I'll do another post about those things later. (Some interesting changes! Like that your spouse dying can cause you to suffer from grief!)

-Kickstarter for 1st edition Pendragon classic reprint coming soon, may include 1st supplements as well. 

-6th Edition is almost done, as it had a DECADE of development already done on it, coming out in 2021.

-The Book Of Magic (that's not it's name but I can't remember what it's really called) has been pushed back in favor of 6th edition, but is almost done, they just didn't think it would make sense to publish it before starting up interest in the line again with the 6th edition. Most of the art is done and the artists are also doing the art for 6th edition.

-There will be a GM's screen with an included adventure and a short guidebook about Salisbury.

-Starter set, includes basic rules, but also an mini-campaign set during the Boy King era that has the PCs deal with an local problem. Starts at the year Arthur pulls the sword and climaxes at the Battle of Badon Hill.

-GPC 2nd edition will be published in 3(?) volumes, each covering a different group of eras, but will also come out in a full sized single volume that covers everything.

-An book focusing on Courtiers has been mentioned as an idea, but it probably won't be out for a while. (My assumption, considering he didn't go into detail about it.)

-Books covering the Uther era, as well as ones for the rulers before that are coming later down the line.

-Samurai rpg using the same system is still a go.

-So is an rpg set in mythical ancient Greece. I imagine that neither will come out for a while, tho.

Thanks a lot!

Any news about the Book of Castles?? ( Maybe @sirlarkins ??)

I've been waiting for that book since forever!!

Edited October 25, 2020 by Luca Cherstich

[Tizun Thane]

On 10/18/2020 at 2:28 PM, Luca Cherstich said:

Listen...I'm old-style, and I feel that female knights are completely contradicting the genre that this game evokes.

By the way, will we have more material to play a lady in KAP in this new edition? To have more options beside killing things ?

Because I always felt that playing a female knight was a lazy way to resolve the inherent sexism of the setting.

Honest question. I don't want to ignite a new war.

[Call Me Deacon Blues]

I believe David Larkins mentioned more rules for playing Ladies, and I think possibly Lady scenarios, in Knights and Ladies Adventurous. Maybe in his podcast, when they did that Cornwall game. I really only stayed around for character creation lol.

[Tizun Thane]

1 hour ago, Call Me Deacon Blues said:

David Larkins mentioned more rules for playing Ladies, and I think possibly Lady scenarios, in Knights and Ladies Adventurous.

It would be awesome^^

[Luca Cherstich]

7 hours ago, Tizun Thane said:

By the way, will we have more material to play a lady in KAP in this new edition? To have more options beside killing things ?

Because I always felt that playing a female knight was a lazy way to resolve the inherent sexism of the setting.

Honest question. I don't want to ignite a new war.

That would be awesome.

I agree with so many of Atgxtg's arguments on female knights, but I also accept as a matter of fact that my opinion will not change that part of KAP 6.

And KAP6, from the few other details thus far revealed, really seem to be an interesting book to have (I'll just keep on ignoring those odd she-knights at my table).

Therefore, let try to focus on other details!

And, in that sense, I really hope that the game will give more opportunities for "traditional" Ladies to be played in canonical female roles, but also having more options than just that Industry skill.

In this sense, some new Court/Social mechanics would be really welcome, and not just about ladies, but also about knights.

And also, maybe, new systems for so many other details of nobles, ladies & knights' lives (Music? Trobadours? Medieval fashion? Chess and other games? Some decent Falconry rules?).

[TrippyHippy]

So, to get this clear in my head, the things we can expect to buy or back over the next year for Pendragon include: 

- A Kickstarter for the Classic 1st Edition Box set - Hmmm....not sure, yet. Definitely liked the Classic release of Runequest 2E. However, that is my preferred version of Runequest. A Pendragon box set with large maps though.....hmmm

- A Starter Box King Arthur Pendragon - Some people love box set starter sets, and the starter set for CoC was well done, but I don’t really think they are aimed at me. 

- A new 6E KAP Corebook with whatever changes are happening in it. If they do it in a leather cover and make it a slipcase set, regardless of the cost, I’m likely to be a buy in. I’m not so sure about changes to the rules - and hope they’re kept to a minimum anyway. I’m slightly confused as to what else will be included to round out a slipcase? A bestiary? Maps? 

- A new four-volume era specific set for The Great Pendragon Campaign for 6E - Also potentially in a slip case. This is, basically, the main draw for me. I’d buy them in leather too. 

- As of yet untitled book for Magician-based campaign - Not sure about this one yet. Will have to see how it comes out. 

 - Other potential supplements - also not sure, if I have already made a huge investment in the GPC (which will have years of gaming material already)

- Ancient Greek and Samurai games based on the Pendragon. Interesting, but will have to see what they are like first.

- Le Morte d'Arthur and The Arthurian Concordance - Well, I’ve backed these already, but I hope they arrive some point in the next year also along with everything else. 

- The Green Knight movie. Yep will watch that. Will also re-watch Excalibur. 

- The T-Shirt. Let me know when it arrives. 

Anything else I missed or mis-understood? 

Edited October 27, 2020 by TrippyHippy

[Greyblade]

I'd be all over new maps, and a GPC where everything is consistent in terms of names, places, and all. Also, I'd love to have era maps that show you the differences between, say, Logres in 485 compared to 531.

I'd love for the books to give us updates on who rules what, who is born, who is dead, etc...

No more Menevia in Salisbury, confusion on saxon kings, etc etc please

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Greyblade

[Tizun Thane]

23 minutes ago, Greyblade said:

'd be all over new maps, and a GPC where everything is consistent in terms of names, places, and all. Also, I'd love to have era maps that show you the differences between, say, Logres in 485 compared to 531.

You're not a fan of the kingdom of Elmete/Roestoc? Kingdom of Powys/Sugales?

[Morien]

1 hour ago, Greyblade said:

No more Menevia in Salisbury, confusion on saxon kings, etc etc please

BoU tried to clean up most of that.

[Voord 99]

I don’t really expect this, but I’d like to have more explicit discussion of toolkitting mechanics and ways that your Pendragon game can be different and discussion of how to achieve that, and what the effects of X change might be.

E.g., instead of throwing out “Which Arthur is this?” but only really providing much support for one specific kludge-together of the “historical” Arthur, Geoffrey, medieval romance (disproportionately Malory), and a fairly close simulation of law and custom in the actuality of later medieval England, lay out a few different possible settings and what you could keep or not keep from the GPC, keep but modify, etc.

Also, this is a bit parochial (I’m from Ireland), but I am not really a fan of official Pendragon Ireland, and since presumably there will be an Ireland supplement book, that’s an area where I think there’s room for significant changes without it having to disturb much else.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Voord 99

[SDLeary]

10 hours ago, Voord 99 said:

E.g., instead of throwing out “Which Arthur is this?” but only really providing much support for one specific kludge-together of the “historical” Arthur, Geoffrey, medieval romance (disproportionately Malory), and a fairly close simulation of law and custom in the actuality of later medieval England, lay out a few different possible settings and what you could keep or not keep from the GPC, keep but modify, etc.

Yes, such as tips for the "world" from Culhwch and Olwen and The Dream of Rhonabwy. With guest appearances by Pwyll, Branwen, Manawydan, Math, and the rest of the crew. 

SDLeary

Edited October 28, 2020 by SDLeary

[redmoongoddess]

@Luca CherstichIMHO, calling lady knights "she-knights" is insulting and borderline sexist. You've already complained and moaned about women being able to be knights somehow meaning that magically everyone has modern morality in Pendragon. So give it a break. Woman Knights are knights.

Anyways, I personally hope we see new regional setting books later down the line, since those were my favorites of the older supplements. IIRC Larkins is doing an Cornwall campaign as a podcast ATM. Does that mean anything? I say yes. But we'll just have to wait and see.

[redmoongoddess]

RE:Asians. The GPC has the Twilight era suddenly see flintlock rifles invented, which is something I've always wondered why Greg put in. Chinese gunsmiths coming across the (now ruined) silk road would help explain why they suddenly showed up. Only issue, why did they go to Britain and not any of the many other countries along the way, namely, the entirety of the Sassanian and Byzantine Empires? 

However, an Wuxia warrior in Arthur's court is an interesting idea for weirder campaigns, and I wouldn't mind seeing mentions of Asian cultures in future Pendragon supplements (likely through the Huns, or, rarely, Asian Merchants and Adventurers, most likely from South Asia considering geography), as long as it's as well researched as it's depiction of European cultures!

Expansion on North African cultures would be interesting as well, considering Zazamancs. I would like to see a combo of the fictional kingdoms mentioned in Pendragon already with the actual cultures that existed at the time. Disregards the anachronistic implications of Allah in the literary text, yes. But when history is more interesting than the fiction, I think we should go with the former.

[Mugen]

23 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

So, to get this clear in my head, the things we can expect to buy or back over the next year for Pendragon include: 

- A Kickstarter for the Classic 1st Edition Box set - Hmmm....not sure, yet. Definitely liked the Classic release of Runequest 2E. However, that is my preferred version of Runequest. A Pendragon box set with large maps though.....hmmm

RQ2 was chosen because it was still the most beloved version of RQ among Glorantha fans. As far as I know, Pendragon players don't have that kind of attachment to KAP 1st edition, so I'm not sure it would be such a success.

[Greyblade]

37 minutes ago, Mugen said:

RQ2 was chosen because it was still the most beloved version of RQ among Glorantha fans. As far as I know, Pendragon players don't have that kind of attachment to KAP 1st edition, so I'm not sure it would be such a success.

nostalgia I suppose