What does the Cult of the Lady of the Wild/Velhara look like?

[Akhôrahil]

We know from the Guide that the Penenethelli worshipped The Lady of the Wild, and that the inhabitants of the modern site of Talada in Aggar still do (and that, presumably, other cult centers might exist in Aggar and Skanthiland). But what would such a cult look like? Theistic or Spirit Cult? What spells might make sense? Wat kind of cult structure?

The Guide seems to identify The Lady of the Wild with Orogeria, which would make it a hunting cult, but I'm not completely sure if I like that. I'm thinking more of "primal nature" than "hunting".

[jajagappa]

30 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

The Guide seems to identify The Lady of the Wild with Orogeria, which would make it a hunting cult, but I'm not completely sure if I like that. I'm thinking more of "primal nature" than "hunting".

There's certainly an association with the various Hunter's cults including Orogeria and Odayla.  But, I agree that she seems to be "primal nature", not "hunting".  The myths that we have of her (in Heortling Mythology and King of Sartar p.88-89) always seem to be of the "prey that cannot be caught" quest type, except until Ironhoof does (once).  

I'd likely lean to some mix of theistic and spirit (spirit cult?), though she feels like something that should be propitiated and never commanded.  Her magics seem like they might be associated with Beast (certainly not Man! or anything civilized) and possibly Illusion or Movement.  She might offer the array of Illusion spells, or possibly Invisibility.  She might offer Mobility or other spells to Hide or Camouflage.  

[Akhôrahil]

I'm getting vibes of Nordic Huldra or Rå (which would essentially map to Nymphs in Glorantha) but less malicious. She turns up in myths a fair amount as the mother of various less-civilized offspring (Odayla, Ormalaya, Ironhoof's son), so perhaps it's not so much that she can't be caught, as that it has to be a proper hunting/courting combination? She also at times seems like a counterpoint to Ernalda, being the wild lands instead of the cultivated ones. Beast absolutely seems right for runes, and I do agree that it's hard to pinpoint her as either theistic or spirit.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Akhôrahil

[Leingod]

5 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I'm getting vibes of Nordic Huldra or Rå (which would essentially map to Nymphs in Glorantha) but less malicious. She turns up in myths a fair amount as the mother of various less-civilized offspring (Odayla, Ormalaya, Ironhoof's son), so perhaps it's not so much that she can't be caught, as that it has to be a proper hunting/courting combination? She also at times seems like a counterpoint to Ernalda, being the wild lands instead of the cultivated ones. Beast absolutely seems right for runes, and I do agree that it's hard to pinpoint her as either theistic or spirit.

I'd say the distinction is that she can't be caught unless she wants to be. She can't be tamed, but she can be wooed, and to do that you have to impress her. She's a more "love'em and leave'em" version of Ernalda, essentially.

And yeah, I'd say unless you're actually living out in the wilds in the manner of a beast (or beastman), she isn't really a goddess you worship in the usual manner, more a goddess you propitiate as part of the cult of one of her lovers or children and who might give an associated spell or two.

To those who do worship her in her own right, I'd imagine it'd be one of those cults that blur the line between theistic and animist worship, though leaning towards the latter. I say this because gods associated with her, like Odayla, are also like that; Odayla is worshiped as a god, but he has certain in-roads into animism and animist elements, which are more pronounced the more "wild" the place he's worshiped is. I'm not up on the rules enough to know how that would be presented in an RQG context, though.

[Akhôrahil]

1 minute ago, Leingod said:

I'd say the distinction is that she can't be caught unless she wants to be. She can't be tamed, but she can be wooed, and to do that you have to impress her. She's a more "love'em and leave'em" version of Ernalda, essentially.

I could very easily imagine a situation where a lone hunter or woodsman gets visited by a strange woman for a single night, and years later encounters his offspring.

(No "Lay Member" jokes, please.)

[Psullie]

According to the Book of Heortling Mythology all hunters offer sacrifice to her on Gifting Day so that they blessed with prey for the following year and is described as the feminine power of untamed nature. As half-sister to Orlanth and Yinkin she is probably feared and respected, governess of those regions far from the hearth.

So I'd say few humans worship her directly. Odaylans would venerate her as a divine mother figure, perhaps a female sub-cult of Odayla with a focus on fertility. All beast men would acknowledge her as their divine progenitor and protector. Beast men shaman would see her as a very powerful force in areas untainted by the Man Rune.

I do not believe that she can be caught, rather those who surrender themselves to the wilderness are themselves ensnared.

[David Scott]

As an associate cult of Odayla

LADY OF THE WILD

Odayla’s wife provides Transform Self. Her shrines are scattered throughout the wilderness of Dragon Pass and the Pelorian hills.

---

While deriving a cult from a single NPC is always a recipe for disaster, in the The Smoking Ruin, Hadra FleetMane is an initiate of her cult. Rune magic is all common Rune spells, plus Axis Mundi (1 pt.), Beastmaster (2 pts.), Draw Beast (1 pt.), Summon Household Guardian (1 pt.). There is also Clatter Hoof, an Initiate of Velhara, the Lady of the Beasts. As a Minotaurs he disdains magic, the NPC has none.

---

Looks like there are a few ways of worship her. Minor cult, associate cult and spirit cult. As Velhara is a daughter of Kero Fin (so sister to Orlanth) there's likely a few more shirines around Kero Fin. Maybe some of the Orlanth Adventurous cart temples have a shrine to her with an associate spell.

[Akhôrahil]

3 hours ago, David Scott said:

Odayla’s wife

Isn't she his mom? Oh well, this is mythology...

[PhilHibbs]

On 2/5/2021 at 9:44 PM, Akhôrahil said:

The Guide seems to identify The Lady of the Wild with Orogeria, which would make it a hunting cult, but I'm not completely sure if I like that. I'm thinking more of "primal nature" than "hunting".

Hunting is practically synonymous with nature. Everybody is either eating somebody, or trying not to be eaten. That's Nature Rules One and Two.

Edited February 8, 2021 by PhilHibbs

[Whizbang]

On 2/6/2021 at 7:38 AM, David Scott said:

There is also Clatter Hoof, an Initiate of Velhara, the Lady of the Beasts. As a Minotaurs he disdains magic, the NPC has none.

Just went back to Beast Valley for the Great Hunt (in the shadow of Kero Fin!) and brought Clatterhoof back with me to Apple Lane. Reeeeeeally looking forward to when the Varmandi first get to see we've added him to Apple Lane's tug-of-war team at this year's Applefest.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Whizbang

[Akhôrahil]

Considering that The Lady of the Wild provides Transform Self to Odayla, she's got to have shapechanging magics. But unlike most shapechangers, it seems hard to picture that worshipers would have a particular beast they change into. Perhaps a more standalone Transform Self that allows for different animal transformations but without the type-specific effects other shapechangers (like Telmori and Odaylans) get?

[Rob Darvall]

From a good while back (when Elmal was still a cult)

His uncle feeling lazy, Odayla went to hunt on his own. He hadn't much luck as there was little game stirring, a fact which annoyed him but did not alarm as it should. So he went on, muttering over the lack of game peering about for something to hunt. Then he saw Rigtania's daughters, a Telaara on all fours sniffing along his tracks keenly watched by two Mralaarae who bent at times to strop their tusks on tree trunks. 'This' he thought 'is not to the good.' Quietly he broke track slinking into the undergrowth, only to come face to beak with a Gathaara that cawed for her sisters who came crashing through the bracken. Odayla bolted & the
Telaara howled behind him.

From early morn to Elmal high he fled them but they hunted as the spawn of Telmor do, one taking the place of the other to run down their victim & ever he heard the crow call of the Gathaara urgingher sisters to the kill.
 

He took to the water hoping to baffle the wolf-nose & he heard the pursuit fade. Panting he lay in the creek where it trickled over the dam & the beaver waddled past stopping only to slap its tail. Odayla followed, over the dam, into the pool, & last into the lodge.
He did not go unnoticed. A weight settled on the lodge. A voice croaked without. Something began tearing at the roof. Odayla slid down the slip back into the pool following the beaver under the surface til he could go no longer.
He breached between two cranes that flared their wings & darted their beaks at him but he had no time for birds, for thrashing through the shallows,
snouts black with the mud of the dam, were the Mralaarae. The cranes turned to this new threat, wings spread & beaks closed. This display gave the wild
ones pause, enough for Odayla to dash for the storm blaze on the tree upslope of him.
On the track to his father's stead he felt himself safe, but his nieces' hate would not be stayed. A black cock started from cover, calling as it flew. From the ferns behind it rose the growling form of the Telaara & he ran again. From the height of the day til dusk he ran. Chivied from Oak, to Willow, to Elder, across lawn & through brake. If he paused he heard thegrunts & snuffles of the Mralaarae. In desperation he scrambled up an Oak, startling the squirrel in its branches. Inspired by its flight he followed through the canopy til he found a large crook in which he curled & looked back along his leafy trail.
He could see the Mralaarae, heads hideous when wed to such lissome bodies, shinning swiftly up the tree he clomb. Below him the Telaara looked up.
Scent or hearing it didn't matter she knew he was there. Even as she got her forearms over the second branch Odayla was off. Dropping to the ground
he stumbled off. Heedless of what was in front he hurtled through the gathering dark stopping only when he bounced off a large, rank, hairy body.
The bear was as shocked as he & reared back bellowing at this being that so affronted it. Odayla scooted through its legs as the Telaara, nose down &
ignoring all but the scent, crashed into the hapless bear. She yelped as a swipe opened five scores on her buttocks but Odayla was not there to see,
he was making good time for the secret trail.

The secret trail was held to be known only to Orlanth & his house. It was made for stead access in direst emergency, but the wild ones were there when Orlanth first came & had watched in wonder & in anger as the god carved their world to make his own.

On the secret trail he jogged along hoping to be home before full night.
 

It was the scolding of the wrens that had him look at the brambles ahead. The flicker of movement in their depth had him off the path & running
before the Gathaara croaked her first call. Into the gloaming he fled, hounded by his terrible kin. As he fled he came into the open downs, nearer
but still far from home. As he sped panting across their slopes the hares feeding there fled him. They too ran frantic but would leap prodigiously to
the side & then remain still. Cresting the hill Odayla made like the hare. A huge leap left & then lie still. The wild women broke the skyline, four
human silhouettes until the profiles showed. Then confusion. The scent trail was lost & no figure ran through the gloom ahead. But these were no
beasts to slacken if one sense failed. Casting in increasing circles the four were bound to find him. An uproar started him from his hide. The
Gathaara had stumbled apon a badger & being of its kind it latched on & was not loosing its hold. Odayla ran.
Twice warned he did not relax even as he could smell the hearth fires. An eerie piping had him frozen, staring into the dark. A pair of wood duck
rose from their night nest & into the trees. One shadow, two, three detach from the larger shade. All upright but the heads look wrong. Odayla goes to
his belly & slithers off into the grass. Creeping, crawling, listening for he cannot see, Odayla inches his way to the stead gate. It, of course, is
closed but hammering & yowling get the guards attention & that of others.
Four shapes fling themselves at him but the gate is open & Elmal comes forth. The wild ones flee & Odayla has a boast Eurmal envies.

[Rob Darvall]

Also from a long time ago as part of my Amad campaign.

 

The Odaylans have an intricate & intimate relationship with the Lady of the  Wild. As both mother & lover of their God as well as figure of both life  (prey) & death to the cult she is bound intrinsicly into their world. She  appears most often to hunters & although this is wonderful it is also  terrible & always exacts a price from the mortal. As mother /protector/ hunter of all wild creatures she both provides the hunters' prey & preys apon them. The act of hunting brings a mortal into her domain more surely 
than any other. Unlike the various domestic activities, herding, berrying  etc, hunting is always part spirit quest & so hunters attract more of her attention.

The various rituals involved with hunting are as often as not aimed at Velhara with her son interceding on the part of the hunters. Velhara is not hostile to hunters any more than to any other carnivore but neither is she any more protective. Just as she demands things of wolves, alynx, badgers & jumping mice so she demands things of hunters. Her demands are never outside the capability of the species. Dying is within this definition & they may be outside the ability of an individual.There are always compensations, even for death. Any meeting with Velhara is a mystical event, although Velharan mystics have low life expectancies. 

Share of Blood Meal Velhara actively takes her portion of the blood by drinking it with the hunter. In return she allows the hunter to connect with the soul of any quarry in such a way that its location is always obvious. This gives the hunter a fear of fire. Such a person can be near it but won't use it.

Jackal's Portion Velhara merely watches the butchering occasionally darting in to grab a bone or piece of meat. The hunter so blessed will never startle an animal; becoming becomes so much part of the wild as to be ignored. Beds, however, have become unbearable places to sleep.

Wolf' Portion Velhara takes all the guts & the hunter becomes impervious to all but the coldest weather (-5°c & below) & all normal insects ignore 
him. The hunter then finds normal clothing, ie shirt & trews, unbearable if the temperature climbs above 0°c hence they generally get about in kilts. 

Bear's Portion Velhara takes the whole kill. In return she gifts the hunter with the bear's ability to slay. Any strike the hunter makes against natural prey (ie in season) is lethal. As the hunter can kill using the simplest of weapons metal is eschewed even to the point of use as ornament or armour. NB this ability can only be used on such animals as are in season,it can be used on humans from the start of Harmony / Earth to the end of Harmony / Storm as this is Man season. 

Yinkin's Meal The hunter shares the kill with Velhara. Both eat the prey raw on site staying til it is finished. This imbues the hunter with the stamina to run down any prey. Thus this is what they do shunning all missile weapons. 

Stag's Portion Sex. Regardless of the gender any sex with Velhara results in a child wrapped in leaves & hair appearing at the hunter's stead 2-3 seasons later. This child will either be a great hunter or a wild priest of Velhara. In addition the hunter concieves a great longing for the Lady of the Wild which outshines all mortals. This can be broken by moving to another land. The fornication brings out or heightens the hunter's dominance. The hunter will lead any group of which they are a part. This may result in challenges from other dominant individuals & ends when the hunter is decicively beaten. 

Gargath lottery Velhara hunts the mortal through the forest. Any escape tunes the hunter to flight. Such a person is uncatchable in the wilderness. All ambushes are detected & enemies noticed on aproach through an attunement to the nature of both animal behaviour & that of wild spirits. Subsequently pursuing an animal with an alynx is too uncomfortable to be done. 

Twinson's Fate The hunter is sacrificed on the Wild Altar. This confirms the old pact that ended the tearing claw*. Any hunters related to the sacrifice are blessed with a 15% better chance of success 

Deed of blood The hunter sacrifices a specific creature to Velhara & bathes in its blood. This permanently removes the hunter's scent but heated 
water always acts as an uncomfortable reminder of the ritual. Thus the hunter chooses to bathe in rivers or rainfall. 

Deed of Nurture The hunter is bound to succour a particular creature. Often this demands the raising the young of a species This act gives the hunter an unerring sense of direction but prolonged nurture of a wild creature makes the hunter antisocial. So much so that human society is avoided; often for weeks at a time. 

Bewilder The hunter must cause some ploughed land to return to wilderness. This imposes a connection to the local flora enabling the hunter to feel changes in the local forest making it easier to locate the best food sources & hence the best prey. Loss of this connection, as when the hunter is inside a house, is uncomfortable at first rising to unbearable the longer the lack of contact is maintained. It's also a great source of conflict within a clan and so....story hooks.

Taboo The hunter can judge the success of the hunt, the weather, coming battle, lawsuit, or other matters from the behaviour of a single species. Only one matter can be judged per species but the hunter will not harm the messenger species. 
 

* This is an artifact of the work of John Hughes and Michael Raaterova. With thanks for many years of mythologising.

[Joerg]

39 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Considering that The Lady of the Wild provides Transform Self to Odayla, she's got to have shapechanging magics.

As the uncatchable prey, she does have those magics. And IIRC, Orogeria has a similar story in Entekosiad.

 

39 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

But unlike most shapechangers, it seems hard to picture that worshipers would have a particular beast they change into. Perhaps a more standalone Transform Self that allows for different animal transformations but without the type-specific effects other shapechangers (like Telmori and Odaylans) get?

As I understand Transform Self, it takes the other partial transformations and completes them so you become a divine form of that totem animal. Which is completely in line with the mythos of the Lady of the Wild, and totally unhelpful if all you really wanted is to change into an ordinary bear's body.

[French Desperate WindChild]

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Considering that The Lady of the Wild provides Transform Self to Odayla, she's got to have shapechanging magics. But unlike most shapechangers, it seems hard to picture that worshipers would have a particular beast they change into. Perhaps a more standalone Transform Self that allows for different animal transformations but without the type-specific effects other shapechangers (like Telmori and Odaylans) get?

that what I asked myself too

I imagine something like proteus (you are able to transform in several forms) but different :

you learn different transform spells yinkin claws, bear's strength, telmor skin, etc...   and are able to "mix" them with the transform self. The transform self give you a homogeneous body, but weird.

How can you get these spells is still a question, maybe as you are "lay member" of Yinkin, Odayla, Telmor, and other Hykim&Mikyh entities, if you succeed to be adopted/accepted by the local priests, you may be teached these spells.

Maybe you cannot have more than one spell by part (one head spell, one arm spell),  maybe there is not such restriction

Or maybe it is like proteus, you need to "merge" with one form (sacrifice or not I don't know). You may have different forms but you cannot mix them.

I would prefer the mix option, however, to have a clear difference with Triolina and the "water" powers.

 

 

by the way, exploring Velhara, I have a question too : what is the relationship between Fralar and Velhara ?

[Akhôrahil]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

As the uncatchable prey, she does have those magics. And IIRC, Orogeria has a similar story in Entekosiad.

I think she's catchable, but she has to allow it. Which might be much the same thing.

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

As I understand Transform Self, it takes the other partial transformations and completes them so you become a divine form of that totem animal. Which is completely in line with the mythos of the Lady of the Wild, and totally unhelpful if all you really wanted is to change into an ordinary bear's body.

Yes, it's kinda odd that there is no magic for just changing into an ordinary beast (something that might be fitting magic for worshipers).

[Akhôrahil]

1 minute ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

what is the relationship between Fralar and Velhara ?

He's the dad of her half-brother and grandfather of one of her kids (Gavren)? 🙂 

[Akhôrahil]

18 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

you learn different transform spells yinkin claws, bear's strength, telmor skin, etc...   and are able to "mix" them with the transform self. The transform self give you a homogeneous body, but weird.

I give you the Bear-Dog (Amphicyonidae). Which, by the way, is one of my too many speculations about the Wolfbear.

[Akhôrahil]

I had a thought. 

The Bestiary has "Wild Women: These petty goddesses rule the wilderness,
roaming across hills and valleys. As they go, they dance
in wild ecstatic celebration, giving blessings to those that
please them and withholding their blessings from those that
displease them."

This sounds a lot like I picture Velhara, only on a much smaller scale.

It seems to me that Velhara could be something like the boss of the Wild Women or - perhaps even more interestingly - the personification of Wild Women collectively. 

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

I had a thought. 

The Bestiary has "Wild Women: These petty goddesses rule the wilderness,
roaming across hills and valleys. As they go, they dance
in wild ecstatic celebration, giving blessings to those that
please them and withholding their blessings from those that
displease them."

This sounds a lot like I picture Velhara, only on a much smaller scale.

It seems to me that Velhara could be something like the boss of the Wild Women or - perhaps even more interestingly - the personification of Wild Women collectively. 

An interesting approach. I would say one of Velhara mask is the personification/boss of Wild Women collectively

Wildness can be nice and peaceful, but can be dangerous too. Your approach describes one aspect.

there is the prey, there is the huntress, there is the neutral but beautiful neighbour

[davecake]

On 11/23/2021 at 7:53 PM, Akhôrahil said:

Considering that The Lady of the Wild provides Transform Self to Odayla, she's got to have shapechanging magics. But unlike most shapechangers, it seems hard to picture that worshipers would have a particular beast they change into. Perhaps a more standalone Transform Self that allows for different animal transformations but without the type-specific effects other shapechangers (like Telmori and Odaylans) get?

I think you have to get the transformation spells from elsewhere, she just provides the deeper magical connection to the Beast nature - but there are probably several sources of that magic in her associated cults, including some known only as rare spirit cults. Of course, the goddess herself has the power. 

I have toyed with the idea that being able to turn into more than one type of creature is quite likely how mysticism/draconic Illumination manifests in Hsunchen cultures, and this is the origin of the Serpent-Beast brotherhoods that were so important in uniting the Hsunchen in earlier ages, maybe even the same as the legendary and mysterious Kralori dragon Hsunchen. If it’s not mysticism, it’s a different very big secret! But the serpent association makes draconic mysticism make some sense. 
Combining different transformations into one would be even more mysterious - as there are almost no records of this sort of transformation in Glorantha I can think of right now (but hopefully someone will come up with a counter example). 
 

[Richard S.]

Speaking of serpent-beasts and possible dragon connections, that makes me wonder if that phrase is maybe a reference to dragons themselves. They do seem to combine the parts of multiple types of animals: legs, wings, scales, and a serpent body. That's four of the five elemental phyla right there, though I can't quite come up with an insect connection.

[soltakss]

On 1/12/2022 at 7:15 PM, Akhôrahil said:

The Bestiary has "Wild Women: These petty goddesses rule the wilderness

I always saw these as Nymphs of the Wild Woman.