Solar Campaign

[jajagappa]

48 minutes ago, None said:

And if vadrus came back Gargath would no longer bethe head of the gang, only second in command at most. I see.

Except the gangs have splintered, and generally don't get along.

Gagarth leads the most unrepentent gang, but is largely confined to the Wastelands.

Valind leads the biggest gang, and they still rule the Glacier.

Ygg has his little island gang, sometimes hangs with Valind, and sometimes goes off to join the Wolf Pirates.

Iphara mostly hangs out in the Sea of Fog, but sometimes pops up elsewhere.

You might say that Storm Bull is the most successful gang leader, and he's got a lot of folk at the Block and scattered around Dragon Pass.

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

You might say that Storm Bull is the most successful gang leader, and he's got a lot of folk at the Block and scattered around Dragon Pass.

Storm Bull is a brother of Vadrus, not a descendant, though.

[jajagappa]

12 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Storm Bull is a brother of Vadrus, not a descendant, though.

Yes, I realize that, but sometimes telling the difference between a Storm Bull and one of the descendants of Vadrus is not that easy. 😉

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, None said:

And if vadrus came back Gargath would no longer bethe head of the gang, only second in command at most. I see.

If he's lucky. "What has taken you so long?"

 

1 hour ago, None said:

The what now?

Nothing like Watergate, rest assured.

Stormgate is a local feature in the sky, the hole from which Umath emerged to spiral his way to the center of the sky, disrupting the complacent eight planetary sons of Yelm, colliding with who we know as Shargash, crashing into the north pillar, getting dismembered in the Underworld after having been caught in flagrante delicto fathering a new entity with Verithurus(a).

This last myth about Umath (minus the Lunar affair) is documented in the Copper Tablets, in the Guide, in Glorious ReAscent of Yelm, and in Heortling Mythology.

If you don't have these resources, here's a glimpse at Umath's entry into the sky, and at the situation before he entered:
https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gallery/eric-vanel/

 

1 hour ago, None said:

Meaning everything points towards Vadrus return beeing trouble for everyone. Excelent. It's a pitty I cant use this idea and tand a campaign in the pre Umath Golden Age easily. 🙁

Well, one of those campaigns would have to go on a non-linear exchange of mythic paths. Not impossible in Godtime, but makes storytelling and following the story quite difficult.

 

1 hour ago, None said:

That really is a telling name. I'm sure all of central nothern Glorantha is looking forward to the return of the Hurt Everyting clan (now with a light seasoning of maybe extra Chaos).

Yes, everybody will be delighted. Perhaps literally de-lighted.

 

1 hour ago, None said:

Really though, with he way I understand how Chaos works Chaos taint can ad litterally any powers or traits to someone, as long as said powers or traits are nasty, subversive or unsettling.

Might. Might as well mar the recipient with the most annoying and harmful curse. You don't usually encounter such chaotics because they don't last very long.

 

1 hour ago, None said:

You're giving me the impression that Vadrus and Ernalda really didn't get along. Not that I think there was a lot of people he got along with. What about Heler?

Got force-married by Vadrus when he slew Enkoshons, and Heler emerged as the Blue Lady. Iphara is their love-child, I think.

No idea whether Vadrus recognized his old lay when he and the Helerings may have gotten into some ruffles.

 

1 hour ago, None said:

(bolding mine)

Uh, that sounds really bad.

Basically, Alkoth's reign of Terror created a border for how far the Only Old One's Shadowlords could cast their "net" of Unity and mutual support. The Shadowlords never made contact with anyone north of the survival sites named in the Guide or History of the Heortling Peoples.

And they were active in the region when Jenarong was just starting to put a semblance of Anaxial's Dara Happa back together. The Battle of I Fought We Won kicked off the Shadowlords' mission of making contact with everybody who had contributed to the Unity Battle (which had averted the Chaos Horde from making their way through Dragon Pass towards the Spike, so they had to go via Genert's Garden). I doubt that they managed to find all contributors, but a significant number of people were willing to join the alliance of the Only Old One and King Heort, and a few other heroes from I Fought We Won from smaller survival groups. Both Heort and the Shadowlords had been ranging the devastation already during the worst of the Greater Darkness before I Fought We Won, and knew about survivors and how to get there. When a hope of a post-apocalyptic period set in after IFWW, they quickly shared that knowledge with other hidden survivors, who would slowly come out of hiding.

 

1 hour ago, None said:

Also, I should have asked. Do the Alkothi even appear in any of the other cities without it causing a majour stir?

As mercenaries. Much like Storm Bulls may accompany traders' caravans.

As civil servants or solders summoned by imperial authority.

As merchants, grooms/brides... They are considered to be humans, these days.

As raiders (mainly in Darjiin), but that might qualify as major stir at least locally.

 

1 hour ago, None said:

I can se a lot of complications arising from this.

Yes. Lean back and grab some popcorn.

 

[None]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

If he's lucky. "What has taken you so long?"

Ah, so he's that kind of dad.

I can actually see the faces of his children when they notice who's back. I canalso see them having little choice but to accept that playtime is over.

Which is actually quite scary. All of them where nasty enough on their own.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Stormgate is a local feature in the sky, the hole from which Umath emerged to spiral his way to the center of the sky, disrupting the complacent eight planetary sons of Yelm, colliding with who we know as Shargash,

That's ... a dramatic way to be born to say the least. When did this happen? That's defenitely the kind of event I'd want to have the players experience once they'd gotten comfortable enough with the Golden Age and Murharzarm's reign if i choose to place the campaign (or at least  some part of it) there.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Yes, everybody will be delighted. Perhaps literally de-lighted.

Actually, the more I think about it the more it feels like the best way to really use this is to have the  players get aquainted with Vadrus (and the other Storm gods) and his followers in all their  glory during the God Wars.

Then after everyone is happy that he's gone, and a proper amount of in-game time has passed, have him return.

This would make the campaign a lot more ambitious, unfortunately, but its to much of a waste to introduce Vadrus return to players who can't recognize him or even partially understand what his return would mean. I'd need to build up an emotional connection between him and my players first or his revival would be wasted.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Might. Might as well mar the recipient with the most annoying and harmful curse. You don't usually encounter such chaotics because they don't last very long.

That's interesting and good to bear in mind. Thank you.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Got force-married by Vadrus when he slew Enkoshons, and Heler emerged as the Blue Lady. Iphara is their love-child, I think.

No idea whether Vadrus recognized his old lay when he and the Helerings may have gotten into some ruffles.

Good enough to allow a Vadrus cult to have Heler as an Associated deity if you ask me.

Or is it important the deities in question actually like each other and want to be Associated?

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

As merchants, grooms/brides... They are considered to be humans, these days.

I can only remember how they appeard in Six Ages - Ride Like the Wind.

Edited April 16, 2021 by None

[Sir_Godspeed]

2 hours ago, None said:

Or is it important the deities in question actually like each other and want to be Associated?

So, here's the thing, imho: 

A lot of the negative information we have on Vadrus is from the perspective of Orlanthi, followers of a different, and arguably rival, cult. 

It's a bit like reading a Catholic writer to learn about Gnosticism. The information is likely... skewed. 

Did Vadrudi see themselves as a "Hurt Everything Clan"? Did they see their exploits as purely destructive? Did they see their pairings as abductions, their internal structure as rule of the strongest? We have no idea. Because they pretty much died out during the Greater Darkness, and whatever survivors clung on either turned to animism, other gods, or were converted to Orlanthism/Lightbringer cult in the Dawn Age. 

I'm not suggesting that all we know is wrong and actually Vadrus was a completely misunderstood goody-two-shoes, but let's be brutally honest, his mythical function is kinda just to serve as a foil to Orlanth, someone on which to heap most negative Storm aspects, and that should, if nothing else, inspire intrepid myth-makers to imagine other perspective, and the version that was forgotten.

[Sir_Godspeed]

As for the Alkothi. I might be in the minority here, but I can't imagine a large city-state functioning without street-sweepers, scullery maids, garbage collectors, potterers, basket-weavers, cooks, clothes-washers, bakers, lamp-lighters, bricklayers, masons, carpenters, redsmiths, barbers, brewers, sex workers, poets, scribes, weavers, midwives, wetnurses, tanners, etc. etc. 

In other words, I just can't imagine the City of Hell, the Capital of Murder, the Enclosure of Gore to be ALL that different from most other major cities in the sense that the vast majority of people inside it are going to be ordinary Joe Schmoes, who may or may not think that bloodsport and demon visitors or whatever is just one of those things that you gotta get used to, ya know? 

"Eh, the anguished moans of the slavering underworld spirits are roiling in the shadows? Ah, yeah, they'll do that every now and then. Just remember to prick yer finger and run it along the windowsill and you'll sleep like a dog, trust me. Anyway, that'll be two coppers for the cheese, nice to do business with ya. Oh, and check out the pile of skulls on the temple corner, they sometimes have a good story if the priest has consecrated them recently, cheers!"

(I am now fully awaiting someone to drop a massive text about how they bake their bread from innards or someting equally hoakey, but hey, that's how it is with these sorts of things)

Edited April 17, 2021 by Sir_Godspeed

[Charles]

12 hours ago, Joerg said:

Both her mother Asrelia and her grandmother Gata could when they were at the fertile "age".

I haven't seen any explanation why the Earth had these generational hand-overs. Especially the crone retirement of Asrelia is a bit of a puzzle. Ernalda is active in the Golden and Storm Age, but Orlanthi myths tell about Asrelia being the destined wife of Umath that didn't come to pass.

The lineage of Earth goddesses (Asrelia -> Ernalda -> Voria, and their dark sisters) does show signs of being one goddess so vast that people approach the various aspects as if they were entirely separate. However, as worshippers undergo their own transitions, they transfer their initiation without penalty from one to the next.

[davecake]

On 4/13/2021 at 4:48 PM, None said:

Ah, that's what hadme confused. I knew hthay ad some backgrond in the Pelorian bowl and though they were just a nomadic offshoot (dammit I don't know how to spell this word at all) of the Dara Happans.

It's a bit more complex. The Pentan ancestors are from Pent and thereabouts, but spread across Peloria and conquered most of it (as chariot riders at the time), reviving the Yelm cult and reviving the institution of Emperor, and while they were driven out in the early First Age (at the battle of Argentium Thri’ile in 230), they have always basically regarded themselves as the true rulers of Peloria in exile. There is a bit more to it - the Pentan ancestors also became essentially merged with the rider culture from around Saird and switched from chariots to cavalry, and the Pure Horse Tribe became their priestly caste, which has its own traditions around sovereignty. They aren't exactly an offshoot, the main Kargzant culture appears native to Pent, but the Yu-Kargzant cult and the Pure Horse Tribe (and adopting riding rather than chariots) could be regarded as things that Pentan culture adopted in the period (from pre-Dawn to early First Age) during which they ruled most of Peloria. Pentan and Dara Happen culture had a lot of intermixing and cross over in that period - and have mostly tried to keep very separate ever since, with significant animosity.

While there are a few interesting exceptions over the years (the Char-Un in particular), mostly the nomads have always retained great animosity towards the Dara Happens, and this absolutely exploded under Sheng Seleris. 

 

On 4/13/2021 at 4:48 PM, None said:

While the Grazelanders are to my knowledge all Pure horse (exept the Vendref).

Yes. They've just changed their relationship to the Earth, and grown reliant on the Vendref, but most of their traditions are Pure Horse Tribe. The Char-Un are also Pure Horse tribe, with some Lunarisation (and recognition of the Red Emperor as the Imperial Sun Emperor). 

We know so little about the origins of the Pentan Storm tribes that I don't even know if there is animosity between the Storm and Solar tribes or not - it is possible that the Storm tribes have always been there, and we just haven't known, given how much of what we know of the history of Pent is basically about the Pentan tribes in Peloria. 

[davecake]

On 4/17/2021 at 12:14 AM, jajagappa said:

sometimes telling the difference between a Storm Bull and one of the descendants of Vadrus is not that easy.

sethI think the Vadrudi tend to basically treat everyone who opposes them the way Storm Bull treats Chaos. 

Of would if they had the power, as Vadrus did. So now instead they mostly have to skulk around the edge of civilisation, seething with rage that they must restrain much of the time. 

[None]

On 4/17/2021 at 12:39 AM, Sir_Godspeed said:

So, here's the thing, imho: 

A lot of the negative information we have on Vadrus is from the perspective of Orlanthi, followers of a different, and arguably rival, cult. 

It's a bit like reading a Catholic writer to learn about Gnosticism. The information is likely... skewed. 

Did Vadrudi see themselves as a "Hurt Everything Clan"? Did they see their exploits as purely destructive? Did they see their pairings as abductions, their internal structure as rule of the strongest? We have no idea. Because they pretty much died out during the Greater Darkness, and whatever survivors clung on either turned to animism, other gods, or were converted to Orlanthism/Lightbringer cult in the Dawn Age. 

I'm not suggesting that all we know is wrong and actually Vadrus was a completely misunderstood goody-two-shoes, but let's be brutally honest, his mythical function is kinda just to serve as a foil to Orlanth, someone on which to heap most negative Storm aspects, and that should, if nothing else, inspire intrepid myth-makers to imagine other perspective, and the version that was forgotten.

Defenitely. The followers of Vadrus would probably concider themselves the true people of freeom.

On 4/17/2021 at 12:49 AM, Sir_Godspeed said:

As for the Alkothi. I might be in the minority here, but I can't imagine a large city-state functioning without street-sweepers, scullery maids, garbage collectors, potterers, basket-weavers, cooks, clothes-washers, bakers, lamp-lighters, bricklayers, masons, carpenters, redsmiths, barbers, brewers, sex workers, poets, scribes, weavers, midwives, wetnurses, tanners, etc. etc. 

In other words, I just can't imagine the City of Hell, the Capital of Murder, the Enclosure of Gore to be ALL that different from most other major cities in the sense that the vast majority of people inside it are going to be ordinary Joe Schmoes, who may or may not think that bloodsport and demon visitors or whatever is just one of those things that you gotta get used to, ya know? 

"Eh, the anguished moans of the slavering underworld spirits are roiling in the shadows? Ah, yeah, they'll do that every now and then. Just remember to prick yer finger and run it along the windowsill and you'll sleep like a dog, trust me. Anyway, that'll be two coppers for the cheese, nice to do business with ya. Oh, and check out the pile of skulls on the temple corner, they sometimes have a good story if the priest has consecrated them recently, cheers!"

(I am now fully awaiting someone to drop a massive text about how they bake their bread from innards or someting equally hoakey, but hey, that's how it is with these sorts of things)

I kind of like this interpretation though. What happens in Alkoth should seem entirely normal to the Alkothi themselves, even if the rest of the world is horrified by it.

 

On 4/17/2021 at 4:17 AM, Charles said:

The lineage of Earth goddesses (Asrelia -> Ernalda -> Voria, and their dark sisters) does show signs of being one goddess so vast that people approach the various aspects as if they were entirely separate. However, as worshippers undergo their own transitions, they transfer their initiation without penalty from one to the next.

Ironically this actually makes these cults (and Ernalda by extension) resemble Yelm more than Orlanth.

2 hours ago, davecake said:

The Pentan ancestors are from Pent and thereabouts, but spread across Peloria and conquered most of it (as chariot riders at the time), reviving the Yelm cult and reviving the institution of Emperor, and while they were driven out in the early First Age (at the battle of Argentium Thri’ile in 230), they have always basically regarded themselves as the true rulers of Peloria in exile.

Doesn't this meant they weren't nomadic at the time?

2 hours ago, davecake said:

sethI think the Vadrudi tend to basically treat everyone who opposes them the way Storm Bull treats Chaos. 

Something lke this is what I'm immagining, combined with them being just as convinced that they are in the right as the Storm Bulls are.

2 hours ago, davecake said:

Of would if they had the power, as Vadrus did. So now instead they mostly have to skulk around the edge of civilisation, seething with rage that they must restrain much of the time.

Right up untill some of them finds a way to actually revive Vadrus ...

Edited April 18, 2021 by None

[Joerg]

5 hours ago, None said:

Defenitely. The followers of Vadrus would probably consider themselves the true people of freedom.

At the very least the rightful apex predator culture. Everybody else who manages to beat them must be cheating.

 

5 hours ago, None said:

I kind of like this interpretation though. What happens in Alkoth should seem entirely normal to the Alkothi themselves, even if the rest of the world is horrified by it.

There may be certain rites in the Enclosure that could be described as trollish - possibly including necrophagy as a form of magical union with the deceased. I don't think that the equivalent of butcher Haarmann will be found in the less sanctified alleyways of the Green City, though, except possibly as a resident ogre family.

 

5 hours ago, None said:

Ironically this actually makes these cults (and Ernalda by extension) resemble Yelm more than Orlanth.

Orlanth never had the Godtime to grow old, so he lacks the Elder aspect and relies on Lankhor Mhy instead. Yelm's Elder aspects seem to be a loan from Dayzatar, too.

 

5 hours ago, None said:

Doesn't this meant they weren't nomadic at the time?

No, the goat herders of the Arcos Valley were nomadic after the Ice came, and may have accepted refugees from Nivorah as their new magical chiefs, bringing chariots and Kargzant/Reladivus/Lightfore magics which allowed them to come through the Greater Darkness rather ahead of the sedentary folks of Dara Happa who needed awakening from the Greater Darkness apathy.

I have yet to play Six Ages: Ride Like the Storm, but IMO the cult of Hyalor comes from Genert's Garden, where Yamsur and his Hippogriff riders were the allies of Genert who fought at Earthfall and were as badly decimated as the Pure Horse Folk of Prax at Alavan Argay in 1250. Hyalor may have led some of the survivors into the Arcos basin and beyond, meeting the Nivorans fleeing the approaching glacier, and spreading horse breaking for riding.

 

5 hours ago, None said:

Something like this is what I'm imagining, combined with them being just as convinced that they are in the right as the Storm Bulls are.

They'd certainly clamor to stop the steal and march on whichever seat of power there is. Complete with weird horned agitators... Grudges are what Vadrus and his get are good at.

It is somewhat possible that Aerlit, the father of Malkion and thereby ancestor of the Westerners, was a by-blow of Vadrus, too.

 

5 hours ago, None said:

Right up untill some of them finds a way to actually revive Vadrus ...

And get help by (a worshiper of) Eurmal (with a similar grudge) who convinces them that it is a good idea.

[Leingod]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

I have yet to play Six Ages: Ride Like the Storm, but IMO the cult of Hyalor comes from Genert's Garden, where Yamsur and his Hippogriff riders were the allies of Genert who fought at Earthfall and were as badly decimated as the Pure Horse Folk of Prax at Alavan Argay in 1250. Hyalor may have led some of the survivors into the Arcos basin and beyond, meeting the Nivorans fleeing the approaching glacier, and spreading horse breaking for riding.

In the lore of the game, Hyalor was the son of Yamsur by a Nivoran woman (Yamsur and Hippogriff traveled a lot, and visited Nivorah fairly often; according to the Nivorans Yamsur was Elmal's charming but feckless brother). The wounding of Hippogriff and her becoming Horse (thanks to Hyalor) happened in Nivorah itself, and the Nivorans had thus already developed an equestrian tradition (in two factions, one of Riders following Hyalor, and one of chariot-riding Wheels following Samnal, one of Elmal's sons) before they left the city.

Of course, that's the in-universe lore that the Riders are telling themselves generations later, and there are several points in these narratives and myths that clearly contradict each other and make clear that the received stories aren't necessarily 100% accurate (and in fact they've actually forgotten Hyalor's connection to Yamsur entirely, and it's something you can rediscover in-game by picking the right option in a Heroquest ritual where you ride to the Gods War).

Edited April 18, 2021 by Leingod

[None]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

It is somewhat possible that Aerlit, the father of Malkion and thereby ancestor of the Westerners, was a by-blow of Vadrus, too.

I don't thin the descendants of Malkion would appreciate that theory.

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

Grudges are what Vadrus and his get are good at.

Makes me wonder how long his (or maybe I should say their) list of grudges is and who's on it.

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

Quote

Right up untill some of them finds a way to actually revive Vadrus ...

And get help by (a worshiper of) Eurmal (with a similar grudge) who convinces them that it is a good idea.

After that said trickster would probably be  giggling with glee over that it actually worked. Only to discoverthat Vadrus is actually a worse (if more fun) boss than Orlanth.

--

This brings up a question I've been meaning to ask.

What is the Dara Happan view on tricksters? I'd assume they really dislike them and was unsure if it was really worth asking but at the same time weirder things have happened than the Dara Happans actually tllerating tricksters.

So do you have any idea which it is?

----

Another thing I've been wondering about is the Bright Empire. I know a little about it but only from an Orlanthi perspective.

What is the Dara Happan perspective on that era?

Edited April 18, 2021 by None

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, None said:

What is the Dara Happan view on tricksters? I'd assume they really dislike them and was unsure if it was really worth asking but at the same time weirder things have happened than the Dara Happans actually tllerating tricksters.

Tricksters violate the Harmony of the Solar Court, so Dara Happans don't like them one bit.

• Arkat/Gbaji was a Trickster and look how that turned out.
• The God Learners were taught by a Trickster and nothing good came of them.
• The EWF Dragons ate Tricksters and were consumed from within.

 

[Nevermet]

On 4/16/2021 at 12:31 PM, Joerg said:

No idea whether Vadrus recognized his old lay when he and the Helerings may have gotten into some ruffles.

IMG, they recognized each other, producing immediate hostility, but this is part of a larger "why doesn't it snow in Maniria" rant I have.

 

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, None said:

What is the Dara Happan view on tricksters? I'd assume they really dislike them and was unsure if it was really worth asking but at the same time weirder things have happened than the Dara Happans actually tolerating tricksters.

 

Really dislike them sums it up nicely. Unlike the Orlanthi, the Dara Happans don't have a native cult protecting Tricksters. The Lunars introduced Danfive Xaron as a possible career change, but that cult isn't fun at all.

 

2 hours ago, None said:

Another thing I've been wondering about is the Bright Empire. I know a little about it but only from an Orlanthi perspective.

What is the Dara Happan perspective on that era?

Best thing that ever happened within history, alas, it didn't last. They even received tame Storm worshipers in their neighborhood, and their Iron Vrok brought order and Justice to all of central Genertela south of the mountains. The Digijelm got crippled, and the other Elder Races participated in the Dorastan Council, accepting the Imperial Justice of the Dara Happan Empire.

The arrival of Arkat Gbaji created problems in the far southwest, but Palangio managed to contain the problem, sealing the Deceiver to Hell.

But a rebellious descendant of a rebellious lineage of Storm worshipers abused the Underworld Summons of Bijiif to release Gbaji, and although he soon regretted doing that, the damage was done, and Gbaji and his Storm rebel followers marched against the Bright Empire.

Gbaji never invaded Dara Happa himself, but the Storm rebels used the opportunity to invade Dara Happa after the Emperor had sent his best forces to the aid of Dorastor against Gbaji and his Digijelm followers. The emperor was forced to abdicate, an upstart barbarian with a weak lineage from Lodril became Overseer of Dara Happa, and only the wisdom of the Great Advisor led Dara Happa out of this darkest period of its history.

The Dara Happans came to the inevitable conclusion that they had been too mild towards the Storm rebels.

[Sir_Godspeed]

9 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Really dislike them sums it up nicely. Unlike the Orlanthi, the Dara Happans don't have a native cult protecting Tricksters. The Lunars introduced Danfive Xaron as a possible career change, but that cult isn't fun at all.

 

Isn't there a Dara Happan hare/rabbit god who is a trickster? Never heard of a sanctioned cult for it, though, but then that doesn't mean much. 

Then there is of course Tunoral of Vanch, the raccoon thief good, effectively a trickster. But Vanch is outside Dara Happa.

[Nevermet]

1 minute ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Isn't there a Dara Happan hare/rabbit god who is a trickster? Never heard of a sanctioned cult for it, though, but then that doesn't mean much. 

Then there is of course Tunoral of Vanch, the raccoon thief good, effectively a trickster. But Vanch is outside Dara Happa.

I know there's VenegDel the Burning Hare in Pelanda.  I could believe Lodrili in the Dara Happa countryside who live down to all the negative stereotypes about the Lodrili worship it / propitiate it.

[Nevermet]

But yeah, Dara Happa as a culture is much more "anti-ruckus" than the Orlanthi in their worldview.  For the Orlanthi, there's a place for tricksters, just as violence is always an option.  The DH, however, would be obsessed with a toxic rhetoric of purity (if I may put it in modern terms) that would just look silly to most 3rd Age Heortlings.  

[Sir_Godspeed]

3 minutes ago, Nevermet said:

I know there's VenegDel the Burning Hare in Pelanda.  I could believe Lodrili in the Dara Happa countryside who live down to all the negative stereotypes about the Lodrili worship it / propitiate it.

I was apparently thinking of Rakenveg.

[Nevermet]

1 minute ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I was apparently thinking of Rakenveg.

*Googles* Oh, yeah.....

I'm willing to bet the difference between Rakenveg and Venegdel in the eyes of 3rd Age Pelorians is the difference between Mercury & Hermes.

[Sir_Godspeed]

3 minutes ago, Nevermet said:

*Googles* Oh, yeah.....

I'm willing to bet the difference between Rakenveg and Venegdel in the eyes of 3rd Age Pelorians is the difference between Mercury & Hermes.

Oh yeah. I suspect a lot of Pelorian and Pelandan gods ended up like that.

[Nevermet]

Just now, Sir_Godspeed said:

Oh yeah. I suspect a lot of Pelorian and Pelandan gods ended up like that.

Yeah, even if Turos and Lodril were viewed as different gods in the 1st Age, they're the same guy now.

And so on.

[Qizilbashwoman]

10 hours ago, Nevermet said:

Yeah, even if Turos and Lodril were viewed as different gods in the 1st Age, they're the same guy now.

And so on.

Which Turos? Every city has their own team.

The thing about Lodril/Turos is that he is ever-replicating. There's never only one. It's always "never talk to me and my son, who is also me, ever again". I once tried to count the self-emanations of Turos in the Entekosiad once and it was like four generations that were all just Lodril again.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Qizilbashwoman