Running a Great Hunt

[Bill the barbarian]

So, who played Shadowrun last millennium? Hands up! Who had a decker?

So, what is my point. Well... how does one run a Great Hunt... wait for it... with friends? Those who ran a decker remember well taking over the game and leaving his buds out in the cold cruel game world without a GM to interact with.

Sounds like a Great Hunt kind of a problem. I tossed this around in my mind over coffee and came up empty. How can you run a great hunt and bring the Ernaldan herder/Heidi, the Torkani shaman, the Vingan fisher who fancies herself a general, The Argan Argar merchant with a desire to free the trollkin (or at the very least unionize them... this is all you fault Terry, yes Pratchett, I am looking at you!), and the Issaries Merchant (with the golden tongue!!!  She’s so good she could sell seedlings to the Aldryami)... along on a Great Hunt with the Yinkin (he’s quite adequate...thankyouverymuch!) hunter?

Look, the faces don’t matter, the point is... can you run a great Hunt and bring friends? How?

[Psullie]

first off I preferred Cyberpunk - no prancing elves in my dark future!

Yes, but you have to give the friends something to do, preferably concurrent with the hunt. then it is all about staging - cutting from scene to scene where the results impact the each other. (Same for Spirit Travel which is really just Glorantha's internet!)

Or bring them on the hunt, then drop obstacles in the way - you can't chase the questing beast with a bunch of tush riders mucking up the tracks or weird complications - the PC's nemesis transforms the prey into another creature to throw of the hunt or the hunter is cursed or possessed  

[svensson]

3 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

So, who played Shadowrun last millennium? Hands up! Who had a decker?

So, what is my point. Well... how does one run a Great Hunt... wait for it... with friends? Those who ran a decker remember well taking over the game and leaving his buds out in the cold cruel game world without a GM to interact with.

Sounds like a Great Hunt kind of a problem. I tossed this around in my mind over coffee and came up empty. How can you run a great hunt and bring the Ernaldan herder/Heidi, the Torkani shaman, the Vingan fisher who fancies herself a general, The Argan Argar merchant with a desire to free the trollkin (or at the very least unionize them... this is all you fault Terry, yes Pratchett, I am looking at you!), and the Issaries Merchant (with the golden tongue!!!  She’s so good she could sell seedlings to the Aldryami)... along on a Great Hunt with the Yinkin (he’s quite adequate...thankyouverymuch!) hunter?

Look, the faces don’t matter, the point is... can you run a great Hunt and bring friends? How?

OK, the way I run an event like that is to start out with all the ritual and worship in a group and then progress to the individual hunts thereafter.

You basically have two situations: a] several players are Hunter initiates and are competing with each other or b] only one player is a Hunter and his comrades are trying to help, but not help too much.

First and foremost, as a referee you have to have a really solid idea as to what constitutes a 'the most impressive hunt'. Some referees make this a bit situational. For example, a tribe that is hungry might consider a slain mammoth or dinosaur that is available for butchering more impressive than bringing home a  pet sabertooth that the hunter tamed.

a] Competing.

In many ways, this is actually the more complicated situation because you have to run multiple narratives at once... the Worship rolls of each player, followed by Perception rolls, followed by the Climb /Jump /Run portion, followed individual combats. When doing things this way, give each player 30 real time minutes per stage. Keep a running stage sheet noting the prey beast, how well the character performed per stage, and update it as you go. Hopefully that'll keep everyone interested and involved.

b] Assisting.

This can be fun, but the characters have to be careful. They can't assist the Hunter initiate in the basic tasks of the Great Hunt [buffing stats for track rolls etc.] and they absolutely cannot engage with or cast spells at the prey animal. It's not beyond the pale for a player to use a Rune spell to cast Shield or Shield of Earth to buff the Hunter's toughness if necessary, or maybe True Bow /Spear on the Hunter's weapon [thereby preserving the Hunter's Rune points for emergencies]. Assisting players can also keep rival Hunters away from their friend's prey as well. And a Lhankor Mhy or Humakt worshiper available to swear that the rest of the team did nothing to harm the prey when everyone carries it back to the ritual site is also handy.

Obviously, your Gloranthan league will vary on these ideas, but I hope you find them helpful.

 

[svensson]

3 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

So, who played Shadowrun last millennium? Hands up! Who had a decker?

So, what is my point. Well... how does one run a Great Hunt... wait for it... with friends? Those who ran a decker remember well taking over the game and leaving his buds out in the cold cruel game world without a GM to interact with.

 

I remember both Shadowrun and Cyberpunk games in the way back where the combat monkeys could take over the game as handily as the decker /magic types could. It depends on your group. A table full of ex-military combat arms [infantry /artillery /armor /engineers] veterans playing street samurai get JUST as tedious as a decker who takes over the whole session, trust me.

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, svensson said:

a] Competing.

In many ways, this is actually the more complicated situation because you have to run multiple narratives at once... the Worship rolls of each player, followed by Perception rolls, followed by the Climb /Jump /Run portion, followed individual combats. When doing things this way, give each player 30 real time minutes per stage. Keep a running stage sheet noting the prey beast, how well the character performed per stage, and update it as you go. Hopefully that'll keep everyone interested and involved.

 

Unless the entire party is hunters this might be a walkover for the hunters and could end up with a few of the non-hunting competitors croaking. But if there are some good hunters involved or some with hunting like equivalencies, this could be fun. Quite circumstantial but in the right conditions...

1 hour ago, svensson said:

b] Assisting.

This can be fun, but the characters have to be careful. They can't assist the Hunter initiate in the basic tasks of the Great Hunt [buffing stats for track rolls etc.] and they absolutely cannot engage with or cast spells at the prey animal.

Yep this is an even greater minefield.

 

1 hour ago, svensson said:

It's not beyond the pale for a player to use a Rune spell to cast Shield or Shield of Earth to buff the Hunter's toughness if necessary, or maybe True Bow /Spear on the Hunter's weapon [thereby preserving the Hunter's Rune points for emergencies]. Assisting players can also keep rival Hunters away from their friend's prey as well.

Not sure, I would love to hear from someone more knowledgable (Not to say you are not, I mean a more official ruling), that is to say... in the 4 decades of playing this game, I have never allowed this.

Cheers for the response.

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Bill the barbarian

[Rodney Dangerduck]

The Hunter vs. Prey should be one on one.  Sorry, no help from the rest of the party.

But the non hunting party can be nearby to handle unexpected events.  Maybe trolls or Lunars attack the proceedings?

[Bill the barbarian]

2 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

But the non hunting party can be nearby to handle unexpected events.  Maybe trolls or Lunars attack the proceedings?

I think I like this better than assisting the hunter, I believe this was also Psullie's thought as well

 

48 minutes ago, svensson said:

I remember both Shadowrun and Cyberpunk games in the way back where the combat monkeys could take over the game as handily as the decker /magic types could. It depends on your group. A table full of ex-military combat arms [infantry /artillery /armor /engineers] veterans playing street samurai get JUST as tedious as a decker who takes over the whole session, trust me.

The cyberpunk interlude was a means to intro the topic, but you have a good point... I am aware that deckers were not the only solos that could make a session a snore-fest. In fact, I am sure there are other possible table hogging adventurer types that could do the same damage to the interactivity of a game. The discorporated shaman comes to mind. Austin Conrad had an interesting take on that in MotM: The Quacken.

But I will not give spoilers here. It’s inexpensive. Buy it!

[French Desperate WindChild]

personnaly it depends on the situation

1) if the great hunt lasts more than 15min (irl) --> I would prefer a dedicated session  with the hunter's player alone

Of course it means that I have to plan other sessions with other players, alone or in little group for other reasons. It could be fine to have players who have the opportunity to decide if yes or no they share /tell a part of their own story with the others.

2) OR the gm may involve the other players but not the other characters: the players could be other hunters, or the pray, or... any encounter.

 

3) if it is just enough to eat some pizza for the others. It is fine. Run the hunt during the break. After all, hunter hunting is hungry by definition, a good role play

 

4) It depends more on the players than on the GM but other players may be involved to plan the hunt: how the hunter will track, etc... The hunter could ask a brainstorming session with others pc to get advices. 1-2 hours (irl) to discuss together, 10 min to play the hunt with only GM+ hunter player discussion (of course with others who will advice).

 

[Darius West]

13 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

So, who played Shadowrun last millennium? Hands up! Who had a decker?

I played it only once.  Terrible system.

13 hours ago, Psullie said:

first off I preferred Cyberpunk - no prancing elves in my dark future!

We split the difference.  We played cyberpunk, but where you could get "cosplay mods" that biomodded you to look like an elf.  Then the police got modded to look like orcs and treated the elves like the gang problem they had become.

13 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Sounds like a Great Hunt kind of a problem. I tossed this around in my mind over coffee and came up empty. How can you run a great hunt and bring the Ernaldan herder/Heidi, the Torkani shaman, the Vingan fisher who fancies herself a general, The Argan Argar merchant with a desire to free the trollkin (or at the very least unionize them... this is all you fault Terry, yes Pratchett, I am looking at you!), and the Issaries Merchant (with the golden tongue!!!  She’s so good she could sell seedlings to the Aldryami)... along on a Great Hunt with the Yinkin (he’s quite adequate...thankyouverymuch!) hunter?

The fact is, on a hunt there are numerous jobs to be performed.  They will need beaters to chase game, people to manage the alynxes or dogs, porters to carry the kills, tanners to prepare the hides, cooks who can preserve the meat, and this surplus of food and hides will produce a trade opportunity. Plenty of opportunities for non-hunters to get involved.  The Great Hunt can be performed in a number of ways.  It can be the work of an individual hunter, or it can be a yearly migratory game animal scenario.  The former is for rune levels, the latter for initiates and the tribe as a whole ims.  

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Darius West

[David Scott]

12 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Look, the faces don’t matter, the point is... can you run a great Hunt and bring friends? How?

I always make sure that the entire party take part, it's always been a fun adventure that way. The requirements to take part are Bow at 30%, if not from a hunter cult, be at least neutral to Foundchild (you are also meant to be supported, at least partly, by hunting activity, which is the let in for most adventurers). The other rule is no armour. I use the Griffin Mountain system of the winner has the highest Treasure Factor and double if brought in alive. The last bit is important, as it allows Chalana Arroy cultists to participate. They get to capture cute animals and let hem go. I've run this maybe a few dozen times and it's evolved into this:

I then get the players to name their prey and from this I give at tracking mod. Those already hunters do of course have a massive advantage, but they name big stuff.

Common creatures is around +50%, rabbits, pigeons, deer, etc. I really do just make the number up depending on the adventurer.

Then I use the Hunt adventure in Pendragon... (5.2ed, page 224)

I use 7 segments for 14 days - hour by hour is not very exciting.

I use either tracking or scan instead of Hunting. Avoidance is also not a RuneQuest skill, so I pick an appropriate skill for the animal concerned, like Hide, Dodge, etc.

Then I run it as the adventure says, using the hunt markers and columns, modifying rolls where appropriate, so horsemanship can become tracking in the obstacles section, etc.

 

 

 

[Ali the Helering]

Cyberpunk and a really weird cross-genre campaign in Rolemaster's Dark Space.  Yep, as a decker you could easily wreck everybody else's evening.  Yep, I was the decker.

I don't really think that it works for non-hunters, unless you are into scaring off the prey.  Cue the madrigal singers with 'Bold, bold Sir Robin' etc etc....

Therefore I would always make it a 'participants-only' session, with cross-cutting between them for their own scenes.  Then I would hold a 'non-participants-only' session for everyone else, to equalise the timing.

[Bill the barbarian]

4 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

1) if the great hunt lasts more than 15min (irl) --> I would prefer a dedicated session  with the hunter's player alone

 

yes, I went solo as well, not quite as satisfying, I thought. 

 

5 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

2) OR the gm may involve the other players but not the other characters: the players could be other hunters, or the pray, or... any encounter.

 

this. this has possibilities. Tag/hide&seek with spells and such... In fact as a child activity a la Valley of Plenty of Six Seasons (still looking to play, hint hint) this could be very cool. Unsharpened weapons, lots of healers...

 

5 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

3) if it is just enough to eat some pizza for the others. It is fine. Run the hunt during the break. After all, hunter hunting is hungry by definition, a good role play

 

No, not even in real life and on-line I usually cap at half the time, so no.

 

5 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

4) It depends more on the players than on the GM but other players may be involved to plan the hunt: how the hunter will track, etc... The hunter could ask a brainstorming session with others pc to get advices.

Now, why did I not think of this. I have always advocated turning to my table. Okay folk at my table (you know who you are), have you any thoughts?

 

4 hours ago, Darius West said:

I played it only once.  Terrible system.

Yep!

 

4 hours ago, Darius West said:

We split the difference.  We played cyberpunk, but where you could get "cosplay mods" that biomodded you to look like an elf.  Then the police got modded to look like orcs and treated the elves like the gang problem they had become.

18 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Oh my!

4 hours ago, Darius West said:

The fact is, on a hunt there are numerous jobs to be performed.  They will need beaters to chase game, people to manage the alynxes or dogs, porters to carry the kills, tanners to prepare the hides, cooks who can preserve the meat, and this surplus of food and hides will produce a trade opportunity.

Agreed, but this does not sound like fun

4 hours ago, David Scott said:

I always make sure that the entire party take part,

This would be m ideal!

4 hours ago, David Scott said:

. I use the Griffin Mountain system of the winner has the highest Treasure Factor and double if brought in alive.

Yes, I like that way.

4 hours ago, David Scott said:

Then I use the Hunt adventure in Pendragon... (5.2ed, page 224)

 

you are the second person to mention this in two days. First was one of m original players from the 80s.

I will have to parse the rest of your message later, but thanks.

1 hour ago, Ali the Helering said:

Cyberpunk and a really weird cross-genre campaign in Rolemaster's Dark Space.  Yep, as a decker you could easily wreck everybody else's evening.  Yep, I was the decker.

 

Copy that!

1 hour ago, Ali the Helering said:

Cue the madrigal singers with 'Bold, bold Sir Robin' etc etc....

Doncha just love madrigals. I DO!

1 hour ago, Ali the Helering said:

Therefore I would always make it a 'participants-only' session, with cross-cutting between them for their own scenes.  Then I would hold a 'non-participants-only' session for everyone else, to equalise the timing.

Yeah, that is what I have had to do...boring!

[jajagappa]

14 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

The Hunter vs. Prey should be one on one.  Sorry, no help from the rest of the party.

Agree.  The whole point of the Great Hunt is YOUR ability to hunt alone and without aid. 

One option then for those who aren't hunters, is that they are at the ritual send-off, and must choose from and put on the Masks of the Great Beasts (perhaps use the Five Majestic Beasts that Orlanth overcame in the pursuit of Velhara, Lady of the Wild).  And when they put on the Mask, they BECOME that beast.  Let them become the Hunted, the Prey, and they must use their skills to both entice/lure the Hunter, but also escape from the Hunter.

[Bill the barbarian]

2 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

, they BECOME that beast.  Let them become the Hunted, the Prey, and they must use their skills to both entice/lure the Hunter, but also escape from the Hunter.

Ah, yes, similar to a few other suggestions.

[svensson]

There are a lot of folks who are objecting to my thoughts on including a party in a Great Hunt scenario.

Let me offer a couple of rationales for my viewpoint.

Firstly becoming a Rune level in one's chosen cult is a big deal in a character's life. All too often, this is glossed over in the flavor text... "And on the next High Holy Day Bob's character, Doogie, becomes a Rune Lord of Poobah. Meanwhile, how are the rest of you going to pay your taxes this year..." If you really want to emphasize the 'Adventurer-in-society' aspect of RQG and emphasize the importance of the cult as a social institution, then why not involve the gaming group in the elevation of one of their own??? Evidence of this kind of play goes all the way back to 'Cults of Prax' in RQ2 with the making of a Wind Lord of Orlanth and is currently demonstrated by the elevation of Yanioth to the same office.

Secondly, let me point out that every single cult's Rune levels have had the assistance of others in the process of getting to the rune examination to begin with. It's the rare Sword Lord of Humakt who hasn't needed a limb reattached by an Ernaldan or Chalanna Arroy, after all 😁

Lastly, in a Bronze Age context very few hunts are solo affairs. Bringing down a large enough game animal to provide enough food and materials  for a tribe takes help and effectively managing and leading that help is also a job for a Master Hunter.

I don't seen anything necessarily wrong with party members going along on the Great Hunt and assisting in peripheral ways just as a method of involving them in a scenario. So long as the Hunter tracks and brings down their prey with no help then the requirements of the Great Hunt are met.

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, svensson said:

I don't seen anything necessarily wrong with party members going along on the Great Hunt and assisting in peripheral ways just as a method of involving them in a scenario. So long as the Hunter tracks and brings down their prey with no help then the requirements of the Great Hunt are met.

I wouldn’t object to  that. It would be the means mentioned I would object to. Let’s start at the first idea...

The idea of competing under the correct circumstances, is quite good. Will not suit every circumstance but under the right conditions, this could be fun for a clan of adventurers. Fun seems to be a win all to itself!

Assisting, this is what I am looking for.
But, as with many things religious this will have to be done by some sort of rules. To do a great hunt, which is the high holy week or three of the Hunter Cults (all of them? are there exceptions?), those rules need not make sense except mythologically. The Great Hunts I have seen stipulate the hunt's periphery need not be the work of one. Their might be beaters, and bearers as best I can figure. Perhaps a chef or two to prepare the eve’s repast. A healer? But what can be done to make the task adventureous. Bearing, beating,cooking and healing, OH MY! As far as I can see (one problem with not everything being brought up to date and having to use old material) a actual hunt must be done by the hunter, alone. Sans assistance. Alas. But this is the actual hunt. Me, I believe this would include buffs and oh, hold on, here is a note from the core rules about Found Child Cult.

I do like the idea of the allies screwing with rivals. It is just nasty, and unfair... but...

 

Quote

Each year there is a Great Hunt, in which normally only Master Hunters take part. Those participating may wear no armor, and must hunt alone.

If there is a vacancy in the tribe for a new Master Hunter, initiates that know the Peaceful Cut at 90% or higher are permitted to take part, but this is voluntary. Each participant tries to bring in the most impressive game animal. The hunter must slay or capture it alone and unarmored. Live captured animals are more impressive than dead ones. The tribal elders judge the quality of the various animals brought in.

If a hunter manages to bring in the most impressive game animal, the initiate is ordained a Master Hunter. Only one new Master Hunter can be created in a year. If two or more hunters tie for first place, no new Master Hunter is chosen.

 

Emphasis mine from RQG pages 295 and 296.

So this is for Found Child, but I assume it is also for Yinkin and Odayla. Now, this does not say they can not go with the want-to-be Master Hunter (as far as his base camp...or?) But it does strongly state they can not go with the hunter on the actual hunt. Does it mean that they can not buff the individual. Well if the hunt goes longer than 15 minutes (or 2 minutes for spirit magic) it will have to be extended or sorcerous and extended.  Again, are their other cults that dissent form this stipulations?

This can be done, but is it legal? In the final analysis the Hunter goes alone and unarmored. 

Now, within these limitations, how do we get his or her party involved? We have a few ways now...Hired help to allies screwing with the rivals and a few others!

23 hours ago, svensson said:

Assisting players can also keep rival Hunters away from their friend's prey as well. And a Lhankor Mhy or Humakt worshiper available to swear that the rest of the team did nothing to harm the prey when everyone carries it back to the ritual site is also handy.

This will work, as will your comment of competing. Thanks. Being the OP, and it being my question I can safely say that is what I am looking for. Great! The fringes cases are of interest. Can one buff with extension or is this going to piss off the God who said “alone!”? Interesting. But controversial it seems to be and I for one have joined that band wagon and will question it at the very least. 

 

1 hour ago, svensson said:

"And on the next High Holy Day Bob's character, Doogie, becomes a Rune Lord of Poobah. Meanwhile, how are the rest of you going to pay your taxes this year..." If you really want to emphasize the 'Adventurer-in-society' aspect of RQG and emphasize the importance of the cult as a social institution, then why not involve the gaming group in the elevation of one of their own???

Good call, this is also is what does interest me and is the purpose of this topic. How to bring the members of the hunter's society (his buds) along for the ride. I mean for the sake of mythological logic and because it is a social game!

1 hour ago, svensson said:

Lastly, in a Bronze Age context very few hunts are solo affairs. Bringing down a large enough game animal to provide enough food and materials  for a tribe takes help and effectively managing and leading that help is also a job for a Master Hunter.

 

Alas the Great Hunt is a solo thang by the rules. Which one may break, I am looking for a loophole. And a fun one!

 

1 hour ago, svensson said:

I don't seen anything necessarily wrong with party members going along on the Great Hunt and assisting in peripheral ways just as a method of involving them in a scenario. So long as the Hunter tracks and brings down their prey with no help then the requirements of the Great Hunt are met.

Hmm this brings to mind YGMV! And you paid for the game, if your table agrees, go for it!

Edited May 22, 2021 by Bill the barbarian

[Bill the barbarian]

12 hours ago, David Scott said:

I always make sure that the entire party take part, it's always been a fun adventure that way. The requirements to take part are Bow at 30%, if not from a hunter cult, be at least neutral to Foundchild (you are also meant to be supported, at least partly, by hunting activity, which is the let in for most adventurers). The other rule is no armour. I use the Griffin Mountain system of the winner has the highest Treasure Factor and double if brought in alive. The last bit is important, as it allows Chalana Arroy cultists to participate. They get to capture cute animals and let hem go. I've run this maybe a few dozen times and it's evolved into this:

 

I will continue to use CoP and GM as long as my table does not object as well as RQ G core rules until the new cult book comes out. 

Thanks all, so far. Hope there is more discussion to come.

[Lordabdul]

As per Griffin Mountain, lay members of a hunter cult seem to be able to join in the Great Hunt. It seems pretty common for members of a party to be lay members of most of the other PCs' cults, so joining in the Great Hunt shouldn't be a problem there. That's were @David Scott's "30% in Bow" comes from by the way (it can be in any missile weapon).

I like David's method of naming a prey and giving a bonus/penalty to the roll!  The GM could use this modifier directly, combined with the type of success/failure, to rank PCs and NPCs at the end.

Another idea that comes to mind is to know that there's a difference between in-game (character) activities and meta-game (player) spotlight. They could just make sure the players have enough to keep busy, even if their characters may be doing things on different scales. For instance, I imagine that participants in the Great Hunt might prepare for it. It's up to the GM whether the location of the Great Hunt is always the same every year or not, or if it's kept secret until the first day of the hunt or not, but even if it's not known until the first day, it's possible that some hunters study things for a couple days before heading into the wilderness. I'm thinking about chatting with the locals, consulting the nearby Lhankor Mhy archives, talking to local shamans and/or spirits, etc. This may give the hunter an edge in terms of navigating the terrain and tracking their prey. It may even let them know about some uncommon or unique beast roaming these particular hills! Something the other hunters may not even know about! The rules of the Great Hunt are only about going alone, but I suppose any preparation and preliminary investigation can be done with the help of their friends, so these other players still have all these other activities to do that will give the hunter player some good bonuses. Even if, in game, the characters are only spending a day or two doing that, while the hunter spends two weeks and a half hunting, in practice it's more than likely that each player will get the spotlight for 10 or 15 minutes, and everybody will feel included, hopefully.

Edited May 22, 2021 by lordabdul

[Bill the barbarian]

1 minute ago, lordabdul said:

As per Griffin Mountain, lay members of a hunter cult seem to be able to join in the Great Hunt. It seems pretty common for members of a party to be lay members of most of the other cults, so joining in the Great Hunt shouldn't be a problem there. That's were @David Scott's "30% in Bow" comes from by the way (it can be in any missile weapon).

 

Yes, this does differ from RQG which states one must be Master Hunter but it appeals to me, for a few reasons. Most Important, if ya bring in the bacon you deserve to win for one, and the other reason, it seems this is a religious ceremony just as important to hunters as Easter is to catholics. The mysteries of this religion would be the hunt... so, let the believers join in, lay or god talker. 

 

5 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Another idea that comes to mind is to know that there's a difference between in-game (character) activities and meta-game (player) spotlight. They could just make sure the players have enough to keep busy, even if their characters may be doing things on different scales.

Yeah, this is important to me as well! I just wish to have the non-hunters have fun as well.

 

6 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

It's up to the GM whether the location of the Great Hunt is always the same every year or not, or if it's kept secret until the first day of the hunt or not, but even if it's not known until the first day, it's possible that some hunters study things for a couple days before heading into the wilderness. I'm thinking about chatting with the locals, consulting the nearby Lhankor Mhy archives, talking to local shamans and/or spirits, etc.

This is cool, and the only problem I can see is the time frame. It could become solo again which I am trying to avoid. But it is better than excluding the others entirely! 

8 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

This may give the hunter an edge in terms of navigating the terrain and tracking their prey. It may even let them know about some uncommon or unique beast roaming these particular hills! Something the other hunters may not even know about!

The hunter still goes on the hunt alone, this might be a ticket.

Cheers Ludo and again, thanks all!

[jajagappa]

16 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Alas the Great Hunt is a solo thang by the rules. Which one may break, I am looking for a loophole. And a fun one!

From the cult perspective, the Great Hunt serves two purposes:

1) it is a test for initiation.  As noted in the old GM Foundchild cult:  "An initiate is one who has brought in a prey animal during the Great Hunt that exceeds ten treasure factors in worth. He must have slain it alone and unarmored. If an initiate performs this feat three years running, he becomes a permanent initiate."

Yes, there are many hunts that will occur that are cooperative events through the year.  But, at this sacred time/event, leading up to Sacred Time, this is when the new hunters must face the test of hunting alone.  Otherwise, you are just the equivalent of a beater or butcher - important for a clan, but you have not proved yourself.

(And initiation in general, in all cults, is about the test of the individual, not the group.  Even if you begin as a group, e.g. Orlanthi initiation rites, you are separated and your initiation quests are distinct and individual.)

2) it is the competition to be the Great Hunter.  As noted in same text:  "Each year, during the three weeks just prior to Sacred Time, there is the Great Hunt and all followers of Foundchild participate, attempting to bring in the most magnificent creature. The winner is designated the First Hunter and the head of the cult, the next few are designated Great Hunters, and the rest are simply Hunters."

This is the ultimate test as a hunter - to stalk and capture or slay the most dangerous beast on your own, and prove your current standing in the cult leadership.  To do so with help vs. someone who achieves it alone seems like a "cheat".  But there are plenty of other hunts, particularly of dangerous beasts throughout the rest of the year where you clearly want to draw upon the community of hunters.

17 hours ago, svensson said:

I don't seen anything necessarily wrong with party members going along on the Great Hunt and assisting in peripheral ways just as a method of involving them in a scenario.

I think you have to look at the Great Hunt from the perspective of the initiation rites, in which case "aiding" them effectively diminishes them.  This is an achievement/proof of the self, not of the group.

And that's why I suggested that the appropriate "assistance" would be like the role of the Uncles in Orlanthi initiation - their roles are to distract the individual, test them, try to lead them astray, set up traps and lures for them.  I think there's a lot of opportunity here to make the scenario more than just succeed in some set of skills.  The trickster character is the Trickster (Fox, Raven, etc.) and encounters the Hunter - how do they test them?  A riddling game?  An option of trails?  The Storm Bull character is the thundering Storm Bull, charging at the Hunter and forcing them to make decision as to whether to stand or flee, or perhaps leading a stampede that obscures the tracks the hunter is trying to follow. 

You can think of it as breaking the characters into two parties:  those trying to Capture the Flag (i.e. the prey beasts), and those who are hiding/defending the Flag (and can determine the various obstacles, move the Flag, etc.).  It plays out differently than everyone aiding the Hunters, but can engage everyone and help make the Great Hunt more memorable.

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Yes, there are many hunts that will occur that are cooperative events through the year.  But, at this sacred time/event, leading up to Sacred Time, this is when the new hunters must face the test of hunting alone.  Otherwise, you are just the equivalent of a beater or butcher - important for a clan, but you have not proved yourself.

 

I am a with you Jajagappa, but this was not my table. As this seemed to be  causing Svenson a great deal of grief I relented. Me, I will never demand that a player or GM not at my table follow canon. If they wish to change such despite my desires; who am I to say? But thank you for the excellent detailed explanation of why the majority were having problems with Svenson averring he could do the Great Hunt with assistance greater than the rules allow. 

Cheers!

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I will never demand that a player or GM not at my table follow canon. If they wish to change such despite my desires; who am I to say? But thank you for the excellent detailed explanation of why the majority were having problems with Svenson averring he could do the Great Hunt with assistance greater than the rules allow.

While it's written in the Foundchild cult (both then and now), I wouldn't treat it as a matter of "canon", but a question of how to pursue individual events within a multi-player game context. 

This is a problem that's true for any initiation rite, or even a contest such as the Harvest Games, where certain PC's are pursuing individual goals and the rest of the PC's are at best adjuncts, or just not involved/included.  There are a number of options:

1) hand wave the event as background; quick, but not notable particularly for important events in a PC's life

2) run Solo Quests as separate events.  Ideally, we'd have a set of such adventures at hand, but we really don't today.  Doesn't help for the rest of the PC's.

3) run specific session for those involved.  The initiation in Six Seasons in Sartar is an example of this.  Doesn't help for the rest of the PCs.

4) allow the group to participate together.  Good for the rest of the PC's, but makes the specific, individual PC's quest less of the focus.  I've run a variant of this where the PC's were hunting in a God's World variant of the Colymar Wilds, and were in turn hunted by a party of Lunars.  It can work well, but like most scenarios, it is a collective experience.

5) run parallel and intertwined events.  The Sun County scenario Melisande's Hand/Harvest Games is a good example of this.  Some PC's are contestants, and others are busy trying to deal with the dark mystery.  I ran a variant of this in my Orlmarth campaign, and that worked very well.  Contestants achieved specific individual goals, the rest handled the intertwined scenario.

6) have the non participating PC's serve as "collaborators" in opposing the competing PC's as suggested above.  This has very nice ceremonial and mythic aspects to it, but might be more challenging to pull off well. 

[Bill the barbarian]

34 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

While it's written in the Foundchild cult (both then and now), I wouldn't treat it as a matter of "canon", but a question of how to pursue individual events within a multi-player game context. 

 

All I can say sir, is none of what I am defending is my own opinion. I truly must state that strongly! In my opinion the Hunter must do the hunt alone, period! What I seek is ways (and if they bend the rules—and this does occur in canon—this is not a deal breaker for me). If there is gold that allows allies to be in on the game in any way, sign me up. That is, can allies of the hunter cause grief for the rival hunters? That was interesting, but this is just a question. I have no opinion, but am seeking to learn others. I was just letting someone have a way out of a rule they disagree with (canon and others opinions or rules be damned).

So, that said let me finish with, I wish to strongly differentiate myself from the thought that I might be disagreement with any thing you are saying. !00% agreement and I wish you will continue contributing here, we canals  learn some cool Glorantha Fu!  I  might defend someone with differing views from myself but remember I am not adopting those views.

34 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

While it's written in the Foundchild cult (both then and now), I wouldn't treat it as a matter of "canon", but a question of how to pursue individual events within a multi-player game context. 

 

We are going to need more up-to-date material (GaGoG will do) for anything to be canon other than the few paragraphs that make it to RQ RiG book, but I like your last point, and cleave very closely to it in philosophy. Where does the play of the individual lie in what is a multiplayer game?

 

34 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

This is a problem that's true for any initiation rite, or even a contest such as the Harvest Games, where certain PC's are pursuing individual goals and the rest of the PC's are at best adjuncts, or just not involved/included.  There are a number of options:

 

Kind of a I Fought, We Won scenarios, eh?

 

34 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

1) hand wave the event as background; quick, but not notable particularly for important events in a PC's life

 

Yes, the hunter and I did a handwaving/role-play through this event and lacking rules to bring in others we made it quick. Thankfully he decided his hunter fell in “interest” with another hunter and married her for a year. Something to remember the hunt (the important event in his like) by, as it were.

 

34 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

2) run Solo Quests as separate events.  Ideally, we'd have a set of such adventures at hand, but we really don't today.  Doesn't help for the rest of the PC's.

 

Bingo!

 

34 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

3) run specific session for those involved.  The initiation in Six Seasons in Sartar is an example of this.  Doesn't help for the rest of the PCs.

 

Sigh, bingo!

34 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

4) allow the group to participate together.  Good for the rest of the PC's, but makes the specific, individual PC's quest less of the focus.  I've run a variant of this where the PC's were hunting in a God's World variant of the Colymar Wilds, and were in turn hunted by a party of Lunars.  It can work well, but like most scenarios, it is a collective experience.

 

Oh, do tell, please!

 

34 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

5) run parallel and intertwined events.  The Sun County scenario Melisande's Hand/Harvest Games is a good example of this.  Some PC's are contestants, and others are busy trying to deal with the dark mystery.  I ran a variant of this in my Orlmarth campaign, and that worked very well.  Contestants achieved specific individual goals, the rest handled the intertwined scenario.

 

This is something on my mind. Can we not say more of this without spoilers. The reason my players got together, was to play this wonderful game! We are not here yet!

My players, please do leave all spoilers alone! Cheers!

In fact, could you put 5 in a spoiler cache? Thanks in advance.

 

34 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

6) have the non participating PC's serve as "collaborators" in opposing the competing PC's as suggested above.  This has very nice ceremonial and mythic aspects to it, but might be more challenging to pull off well. 

This is (due to the Gloranthaness) becoming my favourite!

Thanks again Jajagappa, as always an excellent take!

Edited May 23, 2021 by Bill the barbarian

[skulldixon]

On 5/21/2021 at 1:06 PM, Bill the barbarian said:

So, who played Shadowrun last millennium? Hands up! Who had a decker?

So, what is my point. Well... how does one run a Great Hunt... wait for it... with friends? Those who ran a decker remember well taking over the game and leaving his buds out in the cold cruel game world without a GM to interact with.

Sounds like a Great Hunt kind of a problem. I tossed this around in my mind over coffee and came up empty. How can you run a great hunt and bring the Ernaldan herder/Heidi, the Torkani shaman, the Vingan fisher who fancies herself a general, The Argan Argar merchant with a desire to free the trollkin (or at the very least unionize them... this is all you fault Terry, yes Pratchett, I am looking at you!), and the Issaries Merchant (with the golden tongue!!!  She’s so good she could sell seedlings to the Aldryami)... along on a Great Hunt with the Yinkin (he’s quite adequate...thankyouverymuch!) hunter?

Look, the faces don’t matter, the point is... can you run a great Hunt and bring friends? How?

(Raises hand)

I've run a lot of Shadowrun. So i think i know what you are getting at.

The hunt itself should be solo, but the friends can help in every other way. The hunter wants to score some sweet points over the three weeks so finding the best hunting ground and judicious targets takes a lot of time and work and the more hand you have to help with the Legwork the better. I also think that you friends can help you with spells during the hunt, as well as be lookouts for you. Maybe even harry animals in your direction. Maybe they can also keep other hunters out of the area.

 

[skulldixon]

When I ran this recently, the other players were doing other stuff at the time back in Clearwine. So I would go back and forth between the two scenes.