Daka Fal and Broos

[davecake]

3 hours ago, Alex said:

While my personal preference is generally for the lower-sodium options on the Monomythic buffet, bear in mind there's scope for actual cultural contact here.  In particular between Sartar and Prax, so that's likely a very generally accepted correspondence.

I agree. In general I think conflating Ancestor Worship with Daka Fal is not very helpful, especially the unlikely to be that animist versions like among the Seshnegi talars, but Sartarite ancestor worshippers are very likely to recognise Daka Fal and Darhudan as the same deity. And many ancestor worshippers in Sartar are likely to be descended from, or intermarried with, Praxian ancestor worshippers. 

 

3 hours ago, Alex said:

And via the God Learners, of course:  not always right, but rarely bashful in having spread their ideas around!

Indeed! And given the Seshnegi were a big part of the God Learners you’d think thy have this sorted out. It may be that the God Learners talk about Daka Fal rather than Ancestor Worship because they already know how civilised people should worship their ancestors, and don’t want it confused with what savage tribal shamans do. 
 

 

[Qizilbashwoman]

I honestly thought Daka Fal was just a specific example of [insert ancestor] specific to Dragon Pass; like, an example of how ancestor worship works, not a monomyth deity. Why would the Artmali (just to limit things to humans) have ancestral deities even vaguely akin to a Daka Fal?

[Akhôrahil]

2 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

I honestly thought Daka Fal was just a specific example of [insert ancestor] specific to Dragon Pass; like, an example of how ancestor worship works, not a monomyth deity. Why would the Artmali (just to limit things to humans) have ancestral deities even vaguely akin to a Daka Fal?

More Prax than Dragon Pass for DF, but the point stands.

I think the idea is ”when you do Ancestor Worship, this is how the magic works out”. I’m sure the details of worship and theology vary wildly.

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 1/8/2022 at 10:11 AM, Qizilbashwoman said:

I honestly thought Daka Fal was just a specific example of [insert ancestor] specific to Dragon Pass; like, an example of how ancestor worship works, not a monomyth deity. Why would the Artmali (just to limit things to humans) have ancestral deities even vaguely akin to a Daka Fal?

so do I

the difference for me is a cultist of Daka Fal uses the runes spells but shares too:

1) the values of Daka Fal -what is good what is wrong -

2) the friendship and animosity with other cults

3) the belief that Daka Fal is the ultimate Judge.

 

As I understand, Orlanthi ancestor cultists share 3), may share more or less 1) but not 2)

I don't see Invisible god worshipers sharing 3) or 2) or even 1) (of course some values may be shared but not because DF, just because it is)

[Storm Khan]

On 12/25/2021 at 10:00 PM, dumuzid said:

That does give a broo shaman the potential to contact ancestors from before the Turning, when they were only wild Fertility people rather than a parasitic Chaos species.  assuming those pre-chaotic ancestors didn't drown themselves in oblivion out of shame long, long ago

How about a Hero Quest to repair the Broo’s corrupt nature? Does that sound possible?

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, Storm Khan said:

How about a Hero Quest to repair the Broo’s corrupt nature? Does that sound possible?

That would need to be one hell of heroquest. Maybe you could make a specific broo or even a small group of broo into something else, but the whole species? That's a bigger change than raising the Red Moon into the sky.

[Ironwall]

9 hours ago, Storm Khan said:

How about a Hero Quest to repair the Broo’s corrupt nature? Does that sound possib

What would they look like? would this also means they would breed like a normal creature? This is a rather interesting idea

[Ladygolem]

2 hours ago, Ironwall said:

What would they look like?

Presumably very similar to minotaurs, but with goat parts instead of cattle.

 

2 hours ago, Ironwall said:

would this also means they would breed like a normal creature?

Probably, yeah. Their whole deal is a direct result of the whole Thed myth, after all.

[Alex]

12 hours ago, Storm Khan said:

How about a Hero Quest to repair the Broo’s corrupt nature? Does that sound possible?

I think (to echo Jeff I think) that changing the nature of an entire species, all at once, is a vast enterprise.  A good model (of a heroic effort with in some ways a poor result) is Cragspider's attempt to lift the Curse of Kin.  I note that...

• Craggy is a pretty big cheese.  Do you have your own Dragon Pass counter yet?  A pet True Dragon?  Are you, indeed, a storied demigod from before the Dawn?  If not, you're already well behind the curve!
• She achieved something, but not at all what she'd hoped to.
• It didn't affect the whole species.  It established an 'opt-in' to do the same thing -- the classic hero's path.  Others must follow her example if they want to do the same thing, albeit on a smaller scale, via a magic ritual.

So the likeliest result -- other than the vastly predominant "disastrous" outcomes -- would be something like the Cleansed One subcult of Zola Fel.  Broos can choose to join to try to free themselves of their chaos taint, or some other such partial reversal, mitigation, or other weirding of their...  Brooness.  The chaos taint, their physical form, their method of reproduction, their passions/attitudes, and so on.

If you really wanted a magical means of doing it to Broos, without their active willful involvement in favour, to get an idea of the difficulty, look at other 'permanent transformation' type spells:  they're multi-point one-use rune magics, per use per target.  And that's after the HQ to establish that in the first place.  And reversing the effects of chaos is likely considerably harder than the existing examples,to boot.

[soltakss]

15 hours ago, Ironwall said:

What would they look like?

They would look like goat-headed humanoids.

15 hours ago, Ironwall said:

would this also means they would breed like a normal creature?

Yes, breeding normally would be important, as you have removed the Ragnaglar influence.

15 hours ago, Ironwall said:

This is a rather interesting idea

It is probably fairly straightforward.

You stand in for Thed when she is first violated, then you stand in for Thed when Ragnaglar violates her. You have to do it on the God Plane and produce a myth that works and can be sustained.

By standing in for Thed, she is not violated and can breed normally. So, the descendants of the Broos produced during both mythical encounters would be non-chaotic Broos.

Of course, you also have to come up with a reason why Thed is not part of the Unholy Trinity, which could flow from her not having been violated. 

So, you end up with several parallel mythical paths, one where Thed was violated and became part of the Unholy Trinity, one where Thed was saved from violation and still became part of the Unholy Trinity and one where Thed was not violated and did not join the Unholy Trinity. These myths could be strengthened by worshippers taking the violations themselves and shielding Thed from harm, probably re-enacted every year.

You probably also need to deal with the mythical consequences of each stage, with a lot of what-ifs that need to be fixed.

Also, there would be an awful lot of Thed HeroQuestors trying to stop you from succeeding in the HeroQuest, so nobody said it would be easy.

[EricW]

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

Also, there would be an awful lot of Thed HeroQuestors trying to stop you from succeeding in the HeroQuest, so nobody said it would be easy.

Trickster might be able to hide Thed from Ragnaglar, I don't think a direct confrontation would work out for most heroes.

Of course, Ragnaglar would probably just find someone else to abuse, with potentially horrendous consequences - imagine if your attempted intervention created a new chaos threat for elves, if in your legend Aldrya became the mother of the Devil? Or say a darkness deity?

I think the victims of your quest might want to have a long chat with you when you returned to the mundane world.

[Sir_Godspeed]

You could have a Heroquest where Ragnaglar passes his Initiation Test in the Sex Pit.

I'll leave what that entails to the imagination.

[Alex]

8 hours ago, soltakss said:

You stand in for Thed when she is first violated, then you stand in for Thed when Ragnaglar violates her.

Isn't Ragnaglar the perp on both (sets of) occasions?  Or is there some ambiguity about the first case?  I've seen a couple of references to a version of the myth in Drastic Resolutions -- I assume the Chaos one?