RQG House Rule: Aimed Blows

[Robert S.]

Hi all! This is my first post on this forum. I had a long gap in getting to play RQ, but recently played the newest edition to prepare a Jonstown Compendium title. Back in the day, I was in a long RQ2/RQ3 campaign. I love the latest edition of the game! Our group had a different version of calling Aimed Blows in combat. I honestly can't remember if this was a house rule or the earlier version of the rules (alas, all my RQ2/RQ3 stuff is currently in storage). Whatever the source, it works for me, and is an option at my table. I use it as a "yes, and" rather than a "no, but" to the currently published rules.

The Aimed Blow rule as it is has you holding back until SR 12, attacking at half skill, and choosing any hit location if successful.

The "house rule" version: hold back your attack until later in the round. The extra time sparring gives you more chances to find an opening. This is more an opportunistic strike rather than making an effort to hit one particular location. Each SR you hold back after when you'd normally attack gives you a +/- 1 modifier to your Hit Location roll. You attack at full skill, but cannot Dodge or Parry before your attack (or lose the advantage). 

Example: Kesten engages an insane cultist with his two-handed battle axe. He decides to hold back for three extra strike ranks to look for an opening. Normally, he attacks at SR 6, but this round he attacks at SR 9. The cultist swings a sickle sword at SR 7, Kesten decides to take his chances (If Kesten Dodges or Parries the attack, he no longer gets the hit location modifier). The cultist hits, drawing Kesten's blood, but not enough to stop him. At SR 9, Kesten swings back. His attack connects. He rolls damage and hit location. For hit location, Kesten rolls a 7 (left leg), but has a 3-point modifier for holding the attack. He can choose to hit any location from 4 (right leg) to 10 (abdomen). Kesten decides that he feinted for the leg, then gave his blade a sharp upward turn at the last moment, and plants his axe in the cultist's gut. If Kesten had been worried about his character's chances against the attack at SR 7, he could have chosen to Dodge or Parry, and give up the 3-point bonus at SR 9.  

Good? Bad? Re-inventing the wheel?

[French Desperate WindChild]

welcome

and very nice house rule; you convince me 🙂

 

[soltakss]

23 minutes ago, Robert S. said:

The "house rule" version: hold back your attack until later in the round. The extra time sparring gives you more chances to find an opening. This is more an opportunistic strike rather than making an effort to hit one particular location. Each SR you hold back after when you'd normally attack gives you a +/- 1 modifier to your Hit Location roll. You attack at full skill, but cannot Dodge or Parry before your attack (or lose the advantage). 

I like it.

That is how an optional rule from RQ2 played, without the Dodge/Parry restrictions.

I would drop the Dodge/Parry restrictions, for my game.

[ffilz]

I use both optional rules from RQ2. Most of the time, my players choose the +1/-1 per SR delayed option, but sometimes the specific location option is best, for example, when fighting skeletons, unless you go on SR 4 or earlier, the "pick a location and attack with 1/2 skill" results in a better chance of eliminating the threat since you have less than a 50% chance of reaching the head with a hit location adjustment less than +7 (though it SHOULD be noted that halving the chance of attack DOES increase your chance of fumble).

BTW, these optional rules are WHY I like strike ranks and hit locations.

[HreshtIronBorne]

The restrictions to Dodge and Parry seem like they may be just a little harsh. Not taking any defensive action against most attacks is a great way to get killed in RQ. 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

Your idea seems reasonable.

The official rules are far too simplistic.  Sometimes "delaying" till SR12 is no delay at all.

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

The restrictions to Dodge and Parry seem like they may be just a little harsh. Not taking any defensive action against most attacks is a great way to get killed in RQ. 

you can change it as "if you dodge, you lose your bonus"

[Baron Wulfraed]

8 hours ago, Robert S. said:

I honestly can't remember if this was a house rule or the earlier version of the rules (alas, all my RQ2/RQ3 stuff is currently in storage). Whatever the source, it works for me, and is an option at my table. I use it as a "yes, and" rather than a "no, but" to the currently published rules.

The Aimed Blow rule as it is has you holding back until SR 12, attacking at half skill, and choosing any hit location if successful.

The "house rule" version: hold back your attack until later in the round. The extra time sparring gives you more chances to find an opening. This is more an opportunistic strike rather than making an effort to hit one particular location. Each SR you hold back after when you'd normally attack gives you a +/- 1 modifier to your Hit Location roll. You attack at full skill, but cannot Dodge or Parry before your attack (or lose the advantage).

From the RQ2/Classic reprint

Quote

AIMED BLOWS
A character can affect the hit location struck by delaying his attack and waiting for an opening. The following gives two different rules for doing so. Referees should experiment with each rule and decide which one they like best.

1. For each strike rank a player delays attacking after his normal strike rank, the player can adjust the die roll for hit location by one.
Thus a character with a normal strike rank of 4 can delay to strike rank 9 and be able to add or subtract up to 5 points to the hit location he rolls on D20. If the roll is 15, the character can hit anything from hit location 20 (Head) to 10 (Abdomen). He must, however, state the hit location before rolling damage dice.

2. A character who wishes to hit a particular location must state where he desires to hit. He then waits until strike rank 12, when he attacks with ½ his normal effectiveness, if he is successful his blow hits where he wishes. Thus a character with a 65% ability with a sword can wait until strike rank 12 and declare that he is going to try to hit his opponent in a specific location. He has a 32% chance of so doing (round down). His opponent, of course, may parry the blow. If the character rolls a 32 or less, and the blow is not parried, it lands in that location specified. The reduction in chance of hitting affects all other combat chances, including impales and fumbles

 

[g33k]

12 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

you can change it as "if you dodge, you lose your bonus"

How about taking a 5% penalty to the dodge/parry for every +/-1 on the hit-location?

This represents you pressing just a bit more aggressively, staying a bit closer than you might otherwise do, etc... in order to be optimally placed for the opportunistic strike.

[French Desperate WindChild]

42 minutes ago, g33k said:

How about taking a 5% penalty to the dodge/parry for every +/-1 on the hit-location?

This represents you pressing just a bit more aggressively, staying a bit closer than you might otherwise do, etc... in order to be optimally placed for the opportunistic strike.

maybe but

(i m not a fighter at all so i don't know if my next sentence makes sense for an expert )

i believe that, if you are aiming and you need to move abruptly (dodge, parry, knock out, ...) you lose all your benefit of your precision / concentration / focus / ..

If you are just hit by a little stone (you know a little line of blood on your face) you may try a concentration roll to keep your focus but, if you have to move from  even few centimers, you lose your angle, your position, etc...

so I like the option of aiming a specific location but in a battle it should be easy to break your effort (for a ranged weapon at least)

 

[DreadDomain]

We used that house rules back in our RQ3 days (without the dodge/parry limitation). I would suggest also allowing the RAW Aimed Blow at ½ skill but without delaying to SR 12. It gives you two different strategies. Bidding your time hoping for an opening (the house rule) or using raw skill (well at half skill) to aim at a difficult position (aka, not necessarily exposed) on your SR. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by DreadDomain

[Akhôrahil]

4 hours ago, g33k said:

How about taking a 5% penalty to the dodge/parry for every +/-1 on the hit-location?

I think this is pretty good (as is the standard rule, I would say).

Rolling for hit location can’t mean that you swing wildly and randomly hit some body part (well, maybe with missile fire). Rather, it’s about how this was where the opportunity for an attack materialized. If you’re willing to make things more difficult for yourself, you can go for a hit location that provided less of an opening.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[Beoferret]

I might incorporate the old classic option into the next game I run, along with the standard targeting rule. I also kinda like the 5% penalty to dodge/parry for every +/- 1 to the hit location too. It's definitely worth experimenting with - I can't see how it would break the game, whether or not it worked as a rule-in-play (RIP 😀). I've always liked the GURPS mechanic for targeting hit locations; that being assessing a variable penalty towards going after a particular spot (with difficult to hit locations having a higher penalty, etc.). This seems to work for GURPS' 3d6, bell-curve mechanic, but I don't know if it would translate well into a straight percentile system like RQ.  

Anyone with HEMA, kendo/kumdo, or other weapons training want to chime in with their thoughts as to what mechanics for targeting hit locations make the most sense (or offer the most verisimilitude for the least amount of complexity)?

[Robert S.]

On 9/21/2022 at 1:11 PM, soltakss said:

I like it.

That is how an optional rule from RQ2 played, without the Dodge/Parry restrictions.

I would drop the Dodge/Parry restrictions, for my game.

You know, I couldn't fully recall that aspect, come to think of it. Looking back, it does look too restrictive. There's nothing said about using Dodge or Parry in the current core rulebook Aimed Blows, though halving your chance to hit seems harsh enough to impose further penalty. Maybe just Dodge or Shield, reasoning that the attacker is probing for enemy weakness with their weapon. Parry could knock them "out of the zone," if that makes sense.  

[Robert S.]

Lots of good ideas here. I still feel that some restriction on Dodge/Parry is needed to simulate looking for an opportunity to strike something vital. Since the Aimed Blow in the rulebook halves the attack roll, how about making holding your attack to adjust the hit location giving you halved defense rolls? There's a kind of symmetry in that. 

[Jason Farrell]

Logical and tactically interesting.  I think it's a good idea and I may adopt it.

[Arcadiagt5]

Good suggestions in this thread, thanks all. I’m definitely going to consider these.

I will note that RQG characters routinely have very high skills (90+ is routine in my experience as a GM), and can often augment these with things like Axe/Sword Trance, so I’d probably be inclined towards the “if you dodge or parry, you lose the accumulated bonus” approach. 

[Beoferret]

Has anyone tried any of these ideas? If so, how well did they work for you and/or your players?

[DreadDomain]

On 10/8/2022 at 6:10 AM, Beoferret said:

Has anyone tried any of these ideas? If so, how well did they work for you and/or your players?

Not sure if you are thinking of "specific" ideas but back in our RQ3 days we used:

Aimed Blow at half skill to choose the hit location. It happened on your SR (not on SR 12) - modified from RQ3

Aimed Blow 2 For each SR delay, hit location roll could be adjusted by ±1 - from RQ2. To be honest, the one above worked better as it was less prone to "playing" the SR system.

Other maneuvers and tactics we used (cracking up my RQ3 book to jog my memory):

Intentional Knockback - as per RQ3

Bracing against Knockback - as per RQ3

Stunning and Subduing: We did not roll on the resistance table and simply compared damage with the head HP. As per Aimed blow it was at half skill on your SR - modified from RQ3.

Set versus Charge - as per RQ3

Close Combat: We tried many things, but I think we ended up using the normal RQ3 rules (moving in and retreating), plus using the Disengage rules but to close in instead (or opening up the range again) plus allowing to close in (or step out) on a special or better attack or defense - modified from RQ3.

Disarm - as per RQ3. Nowadays, I would porobably use an opposed roll instead of rolling damage and then opposing STR on the resistance table.

Attacking on the Run - as per RQ3

Opportunity Melee - as per RQ3

Disengaging from Melee - We also allowed disengaging on a special or better attack or defense - modified from RQ3.

Other house rules we used:

Giving a Riposte to your opponent on a Fumble: We replaced the fumble results where you hit yourself with instead allowing a riposte to your opponent. No more decapitating oneself on a fumble!

Multiple parries/dodges at -20% - from Stormbringer

Ripostes - Immediate free attack after a special or better defense - modified from Stormbringer

Slashing and Crushing special/critical results - from RQ2

Edited to add: Some options above can be selected on a "special or better" results. These were exclusive. As an example, on a special attack, the player could choose special damage - or - closing - or - disengaging, etc... 

Edited to add: These were rules used in our RQ3 games way back when. Some have become RAW in RQG, others would still be applicable.

Edited October 8, 2022 by DreadDomain

[Beoferret]

13 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Not sure if you are thinking of "specific" ideas but back in our RQ3 days we used: [.....]

There's some good stuff there. I like how some of the options you listed could really liven up a combat, especially the "riposte" idea. Did they all play quickly and easily for your group (I'm assuming the answer is some version of "Yes," since you used these rules, but I'm going to ask anyways, in case there's some qualification.) Were aimed blows at half-skill on the normal SR too powerful or just right? 

I'm hoping that the GM Book will have some additional combat options (mostly along the lines of the above-mentioned) for folks to bring to the table. 

[DreadDomain]

7 hours ago, Beoferret said:

There's some good stuff there. I like how some of the options you listed could really liven up a combat, especially the "riposte" idea.

Thanks, that was the idea. Although we loved RQ3, we were not fond of the 12-second MR with the rigid 2 of 1 attack, 1 dodge, 1 parry. Ripostes, multiple defenses and allowing other effects on special results made combat more fluid, tactical and unpredictable. I forgot to add that on fumbles, we replaced the fumble results where someone would hit themselves with a riposte for the opponent instead (I will edit my post above). 

7 hours ago, Beoferret said:

Did they all play quickly and easily for your group (I'm assuming the answer is some version of "Yes," since you used these rules, but I'm going to ask anyways, in case there's some qualification.)

Some goals of some other house rules were to remove steps and constraints. Stunning and Subduing is an example of that. You roll at half skill, then roll damage and then use the damage versus location HP on the resistance table. We thought the last step was superfluous since the damage results section already tells us how many damage you need to inflict in the head to render someone unconscious. We just removed that last step and it played quicker.

Another example is Disarm where you roll your skill, then you roll for damage, then you roll on the resistance table. We did not clue in on this at the time, otherwise we would probably have removed one step (rolling damage) and replace the last step by a STR versus STR contest. I think it is similar in Stormbringer.

7 hours ago, Beoferret said:

Were aimed blows at half-skill on the normal SR too powerful or just right? 

Half-skill is already a huge penalty but it might be a gamble you need to take against heavily armored opponent. We found that moving the aimed blow to SR 12 was only a penalty some of the time anyway. If you were fast and would act first, it was a big penalty. If you were slow and would have acted last anyway, then it was no penalty at all.

7 hours ago, Beoferret said:

I'm hoping that the GM Book will have some additional combat options (mostly along the lines of the above-mentioned) for folks to bring to the table. 

I hope so too!

Edited October 8, 2022 by DreadDomain

[Mugen]

I had never read the RQ2 rule prior to this thread, but I must say that I prefer it over RQ3.

I don't really like the idea that a called shot will either hit the targeted location or miss. It seems to me that there should be a chance that you can hit another part of the body.

However, I think I'd rather put a negative modifier to the attack skill rather than one on the Strike Rank.

In Mythras, the equivalent of a called shot would be to chose a Special Effect to target a specific location. It means you'd have to get a better success level than your opponent : critical versus success, success versus failure, and so on. Back-porting this idea to RQG could be done by allowing one to chose the location on a Special Success instead of the standard weapon Special Success effect.

Contrarily to Mythras, declaring the Called Shot could be done prior to the attack.

In clear : if you want to do a Called Shot, you declare it when you do the attack. If you succeed with a Special (or crit) you hit the expected location. Otherwise, it's just a standard attack. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Mugen

[SDLeary]

6 hours ago, Mugen said:

I had never read the RQ2 rule prior to this thread, but I must say that I prefer it over RQ3.

I don't really like the idea that a called shot will either hit the targeted location or miss. It seems to me that there should be a chance that you can hit another part of the body.

However, I think I'd rather put a negative modifier to the attack skill rather than one on the Strike Rank.

In Mythras, the equivalent of a called shot would be to chose a Special Effect to target a specific location. It means you'd have to get a better success level than your opponent : critical versus success, success versus failure, and so on. Back-porting this idea to RQG could be done by allowing one to chose the location on a Special Success instead of the standard weapon Special Success effect.

Contrarily to Mythras, declaring the Called Shot could be done prior to the attack.

In clear : if you want to do a Called Shot, you declare it when you do the attack. If you succeed with a Special (or crit) you hit the expected location. Otherwise, it's just a standard attack. 

Because of the variability that your method introduces, should the player not roll a special, you might want to also use the High/Low options for locations, d10 for low, d10+10 for high. That way if someone was going for the Arm, and they miss, there is no chance they could hit a Leg. Not ideal, but can eliminate extreme variability.

SDLeary

[DreadDomain]

12 hours ago, Mugen said:

In clear : if you want to do a Called Shot, you declare it when you do the attack. If you succeed with a Special (or crit) you hit the expected location. Otherwise, it's just a standard attack. 

What penalty do you have in mind for the called shot? This is tricky because if the penalty is too low, every attack might become called shots by default and if it's too high, it might just because too difficult to succeed at the maneuver (you need a special on a penalised skill).

12 hours ago, Mugen said:

Contrarily to Mythras, declaring the Called Shot could be done prior to the attack.

Personally, I would go for both. You can proactively declare a called shot (use Aimed Blow) or if you strike a special, you can choose the extra damage - or - choose the location - or - close - or - disengage - or - ...

Edited October 9, 2022 by DreadDomain

[Mugen]

10 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

What penalty do you have in mind for the called shot? This is tricky because if the penalty is too low, every attack might become called shots by default and if it's too high, it might just because too difficult to succeed at the maneuver (you need a special on a penalised skill).

My proposal was to chose location instead of the weapon's special effect.

No impale for piercing weapons, for instance, except on criticals.

In my idea, that was a penalty in itself.

10 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Personally, I would go for both. You can proactively declare a called shot (use Aimed Blow) or if you strike a special, you can choose the extra damage - or - choose the location - or - close - or - disengage - or - ...

To be honest, I thought the idea behind the expression "Called Shot" was that you had to declare a target before the attack. Am I wrong ?