Trade/Communication Rune?

[Ian A. Thomson]

Probably there has been some discussion on this somewhere/when, but my searches have failed to find it so far

Issaries has gone from Trade/Communication, Movement & Harmony in earlier rules

To just Movement & Harmony in RQG

Anyone know why that change happened?

* Just as simple as not needed?

* Communication/Trade subsumed into Harmony Rune?

I am in the process of adding Runes to the Cult variations and Rune spells in Vols 1 & 2 of the P&BR Companion Director's Cut, and since it contains a few unique Pavic variations I need to make a decision about retaining this Rune or not

(Updated version of Vol 01 will be uploaded in a week or so, as there has also been a bunch of small errors spotted)

[Bill the barbarian]

Can't find you a citation at the moment... way sick, but the rune you are referring to still exists and I believe it is still held by Issaries it is just not germane to the players, ergo is not part of the RQ G core rules. All the players need are the Elemental runes the Power and two of the Form runes to be able to play RQ G.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[Richard S.]

Communication is a combination of Movement and Harmony, as well as Issaries' personal rune. He still has it, but it's not one of the core runes.

[Darius West]

6 hours ago, Ian A. Thomson said:

Probably there has been some discussion on this somewhere/when, but my searches have failed to find it so far

Issaries has gone from Trade/Communication, Movement & Harmony in earlier rules

To just Movement & Harmony in RQG

Anyone know why that change happened?

* Just as simple as not needed?

* Communication/Trade subsumed into Harmony Rune?

I am in the process of adding Runes to the Cult variations and Rune spells in Vols 1 & 2 of the P&BR Companion Director's Cut, and since it contains a few unique Pavic variations I need to make a decision about retaining this Rune or not

(Updated version of Vol 01 will be uploaded in a week or so, as there has also been a bunch of small errors spotted)

Yeah, the Chaosium folk decided that the cool looking Issaries rune shouldn't be a thing anymore.

[metcalph]

7 hours ago, Ian A. Thomson said:

Probably there has been some discussion on this somewhere/when, but my searches have failed to find it so far

Issaries has gone from Trade/Communication, Movement & Harmony in earlier rules

To just Movement & Harmony in RQG

Anyone know why that change happened?

Basically if they used trade as a rune, it would crimp the style of the RuneQuest:Glorantha Rune rules (which allows for only powers, elements and forms).  Condition Runes (of which Trade is) are special cases.  Further rules may have the Trade rune as a thing but not now.

[PhilHibbs]

I'm sure the rune still exists in Gloranthan cosmology, and it's still there in the temple frescoes and over gates and doors, but it doesn't feature in the RQG rules in the same way that the Barntar, Elmal, and Eternal Battle runes don't.

It's just the most well known rune that isn't a primary element, power, or form.

Edited November 25, 2022 by PhilHibbs

[M Helsdon]

7 hours ago, Ian A. Thomson said:

ssaries has gone from Trade/Communication, Movement & Harmony in earlier rules

To just Movement & Harmony in RQG

Anyone know why that change happened?

It's because of game mechanics, I believe. The Trade Rune still exists in Glorantha but isn't a Rune player characters can 'own'.

[David Scott]

It's back to how it was in RQ2: 

Quote

The Runes of Issaries are Mobility, Harmony, and “Issaries,” a Rune unknown or unused except in trade functions. Other than Issaries few spirits have it, save those who took it from him.

Cults of Prax

The upcoming cults book says:

Quote

Combination Runes

Sometimes two Runes are so closely connected in a cult they are expressed as a single combination Rune. These Runes are rarely acknowledged by other cults.

   Communication: The combination of Mobility and Harmony, this Rune is unknown or unused except in trade

upcoming Cults of Glorantha

This also applies to the Power Rune of Pamalt.

Edited November 25, 2022 by David Scott

[Nevermet]

On 11/25/2022 at 1:28 AM, M Helsdon said:

It's because of game mechanics, I believe. The Trade Rune still exists in Glorantha but isn't a Rune player characters can 'own'.

Yeah, this is a really important thing to remember: There are many more runes than the ones that are mechanically relevant.  Like, IMG, Lodril's heat rune is still a thing, etc

[Richard S.]

58 minutes ago, Nevermet said:

Yeah, this is a really important thing to remember: There are many more runes than the ones that are mechanically relevant.  Like, IMG, Lodril's heat rune is still a thing, etc

I think heat is a sub-rune of Fire, like light. There used to be a volcano/magma rune too which was his personal rune, I think earth+fire.

[David Scott]

12 hours ago, Richard S. said:

I think heat is a sub-rune of Fire, like light. There used to be a volcano/magma rune too which was his personal rune, I think earth+fire.

Heat , Light  and Cold  are partial Runes, and will be described in the Cult's book. Lodril's personal glyph isn't mechanically used any more as he's better described by . The Hero Wars era runes are now best viewed as personal glyphs, shorthand for the god, that may be found in art and decorations.

The "Volcano" rune associated with Lodril was the Earth rune with a dot in the middle. It was also (confusingly to me) used as the defence affinity, and there were two different forms! Likewise Lodril isn't an Earth God. See the evolution here: Lodril

 

[kalidor]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Heat , Light  and Cold  are partial Runes, and will be described in the Cult's book. Lodril's personal glyph isn't mechanically used any more as he's better described by . The Hero Wars era runes are now best viewed as personal glyphs, shorthand for the god, that may be found in art and decorations.

The "Volcano" rune associated with Lodril was the Earth rune with a dot in the middle. It was also (confusingly to me) used as the defence affinity, and there were two different forms! Likewise Lodril isn't an Earth God. See the evolution here: Lodril

 

Is Hippoi/hyalor rune also a combination then? 

[Agentorange]

I'd say include it, perhaps with a little side bar explanation.

After all the beauty of the JC is that things don't have to be canonical  - it's your view of Glorantha.

[David Scott]

14 minutes ago, kalidor said:

Is Hippoi/hyalor rune also a combination then? 

What's your reference for this? I can't see a Hippoi/hyalor rune.

If you mean the Horse glyph , that's just shorthand for horse (Hippoi), and was also used as the glyph for Beren.

Hyalor and Hippoi (aka Arandayla ( ), Gamara, Redaylda) teach Command Horse and Speak with Horse both with the Beast Rune.

[kalidor]

24 minutes ago, David Scott said:

What's your reference for this? I can't see a Hippoi/hyalor rune.

If you mean the Horse glyph , that's just shorthand for horse (Hippoi), and was also used as the glyph for Beren.

Hyalor and Hippoi (aka Arandayla ( ), Gamara, Redaylda) teach Command Horse and Speak with Horse both with the Beast Rune.

I meant the horse glyph. Thanks for clarifying David. Although I am a little confused with Hyalor not using man rune as cultural reference of hyalorings. Maybe is like the Bloody Tusk, a mixed cult.

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, kalidor said:

I meant the horse glyph. Thanks for clarifying David. Although I am a little confused with Hyalor not using man rune as cultural reference of hyalorings.

Hyalor is a simple hero with one story and schtick. None of his magic identity is focussed on people. Not everything needs an array of Runes. If anything Hyalor is a culture hero who gave rise to the culture bearing his name (we ride horses and are the horse people). 

[Mark Mohrfield]

I cringed a bit on discovering the Trade Rune's removal  from RQG, and I'm hoping that Questworld's Glorantha will not follow suit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Akhôrahil]

RQG tried to streamline the runes, so the ones outside the basic structure (apart from Chaos) didn't get a place. You can see this in Lhankor Mhy as well, going from Law to Stasis as second rune.

You could easily chose to retain these runes in your own publications, although some boxed text on how to pick them up (including in chargen) would probably be helpful, then (or PCs might end up with no way to cast their rune spells, which would be bad).

Edited December 1, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[Akhôrahil]

On 11/27/2022 at 11:09 AM, David Scott said:

Heat , Light  and Cold  are partial Runes

And Shadow, to complete the set (IIRC).

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

RQG tried to streamline the runes, so the ones outside the basic structure (apart from Chaos) didn't get a place. 

RQG has returned to the core runes: Powers (8), Elements (6), Conditions (5), form (7), partial runes (3) and combination (2) rune making 31 (unless I'm mistaken

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

you can see this in Lhankor Mhy as well, going from Law to Stasis as second rune.

It's just reverted to RQ2 runes, see here.

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

And Shadow, to complete the set (IIRC).

Shadow is only in passing with heat as none of the Gods in the upcoming cults book have shadow.

Edited December 1, 2022 by David Scott

[Mark Mohrfield]

4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

RQG tried to streamline the runes, so the ones outside the basic structure (apart from Chaos) didn't get a place. You can see this in Lhankor Mhy as well, going from Law to Stasis as second rune.

I’m cringing again. I can understand the leaving out the others, as they are just minor modifications of other Runes, but Law and Communication seem pretty important. Does anyone know why they were dropped.

[AlHazred]

46 minutes ago, Mark Mohrfield said:

I’m cringing again. I can understand the leaving out the others, as they are just minor modifications of other Runes, but Law and Communication seem pretty important. Does anyone know why they were dropped.

It's a Lunar plot! Air/Storm is next!

[Eff]

50 minutes ago, Mark Mohrfield said:

I’m cringing again. I can understand the leaving out the others, as they are just minor modifications of other Runes, but Law and Communication seem pretty important. Does anyone know why they were dropped.

The idea seems to have been to reduce the Runes that have gameplay functionality in Runequest: Roleplaying in Glorantha, to ones that are "universal"- so Spirit and Law, tied to particular magical worldviews, were cut. Communication, only relevant to merchant cults Issaries and Etyries, gets cut, as does Storm Bull's Eternal Battle. Of course, we still have Chaos and Undeath and possibly Mastery as Runes that aren't "universal", so it's incomplete, and you could even imagine expanding  to cover a whole range of skills in a hypothetical Runequest variant.

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, Eff said:

 Communication, only relevant to merchant cults Issaries and Etyries

Argan Argar had it as well. Guide p. 150 (as well as Troll Gods and Gods of Glorantha).
 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[Eff]

4 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Argan Argar had it as well. Guide p. 150 (as well as Troll Gods and Gods of Glorantha).
 

Well, yes, in the past tense. I guess he traded it back to Issaries between 2012 and 2018.