What worlds would people like to see in BRP?

[Zane]

V (Mini-Series, The Final Battle, The Series, The Comic and the Novels cover a wide and varied adventuring setting)

Saw everything when it came out, and have the comics somewhere, but quite honestly have no desire to revisit that show. For that type of a setting I much preferred the "War of the Worlds" TV show, still the method in which the aliens showed up in V was great... Maybe this could be done right.

XXVc (The old TSR product, with or without the Buck Rogers stuff would be fine)

As I think I mentioned in another thread, I'm a huge fan of the original Buck Rogers comic strip. I'd prefer something based on those and TSR's later High Adventure Cliffhangers Buck Rogers Adventure Game (which were based on the two original Pulp stories).

[Atgxtg]

XXVc (The old TSR product, with or without the Buck Rogers stuff would be fine)

Wow! I'm surprised that you like that game. That makes you the first I've ran into. Even the author hated it (if you even want to embarrass Mike Pondsmith, bring it up).

[PK Games]

It was an interesting setting, yes Id rather it had a different system overall, but it was at the height of 2nd Edition AD&D and was readily compatible with stats for creatures and encounters and classes from AD&D 2e as well a the Gamma World stuff.

And if Mike Pondsmith is embarrased by the game then shame on him for not taking pride in his work and maybe he shouldnt have designed the game the way he did. All he did was mix the character generation skill system from Cyberpunk, turn skills into % based and shoved it into a AD&D framework.

Though the rules for space ships and ship to ship combat were a bit lacking.

But like I said, I enjoyed the setting.

[TrippyHippy]

Blackadder.

[Atgxtg]

It was an interesting setting, yes Id rather it had a different system overall, but it was at the height of 2nd Edition AD&D and was readily compatible with stats for creatures and encounters and classes from AD&D 2e as well a the Gamma World stuff.

And if Mike Pondsmith is embarrased by the game then shame on him for not taking pride in his work and maybe he shouldnt have designed the game the way he did. All he did was mix the character generation skill system from Cyberpunk, turn skills into % based and shoved it into a AD&D framework.

Though the rules for space ships and ship to ship combat were a bit lacking.

But like I said, I enjoyed the setting.

From what I read, it wasn't designed that way entirely by his choice. When you do work for hire the end product has to please the client. In this case the client was TSAR and the end product was written to meet their expectations.

Pondsmith doesn't consider the game worth taking pride in, and I can't say as I blame him. Still, it's not as bad as the Indiana Jones RPG that TSR put out.

[Simlasa]

The main draw of Planet Of The Apes, for me, is merely that the protaganists are not part of the dominant race/species... it could easily be Planet Of The Orcs or Planet Of The Kroot... anything where you are perpetually behind enemy lines.

I'm not sure if most players would enjoy a game where they couldn't aspire to being top dog... because they'd always be having to keep a low profile to avoid the attention of the REAL masters.

[PK Games]

From what I read, it wasn't designed that way entirely by his choice. When you do work for hire the end product has to please the client. In this case the client was TSAR and the end product was written to meet their expectations.

Pondsmith doesn't consider the game worth taking pride in, and I can't say as I blame him.

Thats the nature of the beast. And thus why God created pseudonyms.

Personally I think his bitching and moaning about TSR makes him a hipocrite. He took the job, he knows how the industry works, he cashed the check and Im sure he spent the money. I hate it when writers and artists who are work for hire get all indignant that "oh I hate that one, its not "really" my work. The editors controlled it!" Yeah well you are work for hire. A mercenary. A thug. A mook!

Instead he could be saying "Not one of my best, but I learned from it!" And I happen to know many people who are fans of that game. Who still play it by old school rules.

I understand how the industry works, its like most work for hire. The client wants something, they tell you what they want to see, you make your recommendations but at the end of the day its really up to them.

I would never hire someone like Pondsmith now. Afterall, when he is done working for you, all he is going to do is insult the work and say "It wasnt my work!" Then give the damn money back you jerk.

[PK Games]

The main draw of Planet Of The Apes, for me, is merely that the protaganists are not part of the dominant race/species... it could easily be Planet Of The Orcs or Planet Of The Kroot.

Kroot. Hate those bastards!

[seneschal]

The main draw of Planet Of The Apes, for me, is merely that the protaganists are not part of the dominant race/species... it could easily be Planet Of The Orcs or Planet Of The Kroot... anything where you are perpetually behind enemy lines.

I'm not sure if most players would enjoy a game where they couldn't aspire to being top dog... because they'd always be having to keep a low profile to avoid the attention of the REAL masters.

You could take the Robin Hood/Pellucidar/Flash Gordon approach, where the player-characters start out hiding in the shadows but gain in strength after a series of successful missions until they can challenge the evil powers that be, whether it is the Ming the Merciless, the Sheriff of Nottingham or the evil Mahars (or Doctor Zaius). To pull this off, the PCs would have to find a refuge from the apes, then gradually gather and arm supporters (assuming they can find any supporters competent enough to fight the ape army).

[TrippyHippy]

Oh yes, a Wraith-like game dealing with a Jungian-inspired ghost-lands and shadowplay. White Wolf aren't doing this anymore, but I always liked the idea of being able to make the two games compatable in system.

[Atgxtg]

Thats the nature of the beast. And thus why God created pseudonyms.

Personally I think his bitching and moaning about TSR makes him a hipocrite. He took the job, he knows how the industry works, he cashed the check and Im sure he spent the money. I hate it when writers and artists who are work for hire get all indignant that "oh I hate that one, its not "really" my work. The editors controlled it!" Yeah well you are work for hire. A mercenary. A thug. A mook!

Instead he could be saying "Not one of my best, but I learned from it!" And I happen to know many people who are fans of that game. Who still play it by old school rules.

I understand how the industry works, its like most work for hire. The client wants something, they tell you what they want to see, you make your recommendations but at the end of the day its really up to them.

I would never hire someone like Pondsmith now. Afterall, when he is done working for you, all he is going to do is insult the work and say "It wasnt my work!" Then give the damn money back you jerk.

Now you are being unfair. I never said Pondsmith was bitching about it. Only that he isn't proud of it.

And I'd rather hire someone like Pondsmith who can produce good quality RPG stuff than the typical no talent work for hire guy that is flooding the market with D20 crap today.

I've seen a lot of "professionals" who shut their mouth and do what they are told. Not just in Gaming, either. I saw it at a hostpial where it put people's lives as risk, and continues to do so.

Personally, I'd rather deal with someone who is honest than someone who sugarcoats things for the benefit of the company. I think we've seen enough of that with MRQ.

[PK Games]

I've seen a lot of "professionals" who shut their mouth and do what they are told. Not just in Gaming, either. I saw it at a hostpial where it put people's lives as risk, and continues to do so.

Personally, I'd rather deal with someone who is honest than someone who sugarcoats things for the benefit of the company. I think we've seen enough of that with MRQ.

Get over it. Im sure his attitude toward the game now is just him jumping on the fanwagon of "Grrrr evil TSR!" "Grrrr evil WotC!" "Grrrr evil MRQ!"

Hearing everyone complain about MRQ makes me just want to go out and buy it. Other then its just too damn expensive!

[Kloster]

I'd like:

Western (either realist, classical or spaghetti, but no fantastic).

Ancient Greece.

Cyberpunk style.

Space Opera.

I would love but know I will never have so I will have to do it myself:

a new Runequest with the new BRP as basis.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Kloster]

Get over it. Im sure his attitude toward the game now is just him jumping on the fanwagon of "Grrrr evil TSR!" "Grrrr evil WotC!" "Grrrr evil MRQ!"

Hearing everyone complain about MRQ makes me just want to go out and buy it. Other then its just too damn expensive!

It's not attitude, just plain economy: way too expensive for the quality of what we get.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[The Tweaker]

A fantasy setting book based on the Witcher novels and stories by Polish writer Andrzej Sapkowski would be cool. At first sight it looks like your typical Tolkien-inspired fantasy world, with elves, dwarves, magicians, various human kingdoms, etc, but with a number of twists that make it really interesting, like moral ambiguity, generalized corruption both among the nobility and the common people and widespread racism (most fantasy races either live apart from the humans or are second-class citizens in human communities, for instance). Shades of grey everywhere.

The main character, Geralt of Rivia, is a Witcher, an sterile mutant with supernatural abilities and special training who works as a professional monster hunter for hire. Monsters are really fearful enemies in Geralt's world, so a special kind of gifted warrior is often needed to destroy them. Geralt is a loner forced to make moral decisions in a world of corruption and treachery, and is frequently despised by the same people he must protect. There is a wiki with detailed information on Geralt's world and stories here. I think it would be really simple to adapt the setting for BRP.

I'd also love to run a survival horror mini-campaign very much along the lines of Image Comics' The Walking Dead.

[PK Games]

It's not attitude, just plain economy: way too expensive for the quality of what we get.

That I understand.

Im not defending MRQ. Im not saying XXVc was a great game. Im just saying Pondsmith shouldnt be ashamed of it, embarrassed by it or feel a need to put the blame on TSR. I understand he needed the money or just couldnt drop the job cause its what he does for a living.

Either stand up for your beliefs at the time you need to or do the job and move on.

[Atgxtg]

Get over it. Im sure his attitude toward the game now is just him jumping on the fanwagon of "Grrrr evil TSR!" "Grrrr evil WotC!" "Grrrr evil MRQ!"

Hearing everyone complain about MRQ makes me just want to go out and buy it. Other then its just too damn expensive!

PK. why don't you learn something about what you are talking about. Mike Pondsmith isn't jumpong on the "evil TSR bandwagon". You are jumping to conclusions.

My comment on the Buck Rogers game was taken from a bio on Pondsmith written years ago by his coworders at R Talsorian, with the comment that if he ever starts to come off as too proud or coocky about his work, mention the Buck Rodgers game.

So before you are sure of something, you should learn the facts and not just make assumptions.

As for the Buck Rodgers RPG, okay. So you like the game. Fine. Does anyone else?

[Atgxtg]

The main draw of Planet Of The Apes, for me, is merely that the protaganists are not part of the dominant race/species... it could easily be Planet Of The Orcs or Planet Of The Kroot... anything where you are perpetually behind enemy lines.

I'm not sure if most players would enjoy a game where they couldn't aspire to being top dog... because they'd always be having to keep a low profile to avoid the attention of the REAL masters.

For me, part of it was the fact that the "dominant" species are something that we humans consider ourselves superior to, at least intellectually.

I don't think the films would have worked as well if the apes were just some sort of alien. It is the "topsy-turvy" nature of things that is responsible for much of the appeal.

That the advanced culture is technologically inferior to our own adds a nice ironic twist. Basically we know we are more advanced.

That it is our Earth is the icing on the cake. We can see how our future will unfold and to such a senseless, undesirable end.

I think to get the proper feel for an "Apes-like" campaign, the protagonists would need to come from a more advanced culture, and one where the dominant species of the planet are a less advanced species on the protagonist's world.

[Shiba Homer]

Get over it. Im sure his attitude toward the game now is just him jumping on the fanwagon of "Grrrr evil TSR!" "Grrrr evil WotC!" "Grrrr evil MRQ!"

Hearing everyone complain about MRQ makes me just want to go out and buy it. Other then its just too damn expensive!

Only some people who dislike a company do it cause 'everybody' else is, quite often they actually don't like the products. :shocked:

You can have my copies at a reduced rate, I'm sure you'll be very happy.

[PK Games]

PK. why don't you learn something about what you are talking about. Mike Pondsmith isn't jumpong on the "evil TSR bandwagon". You are jumping to conclusions.

My comment on the Buck Rogers game was taken from a bio on Pondsmith written years ago by his coworders at R Talsorian, with the comment that if he ever starts to come off as too proud or coocky about his work, mention the Buck Rodgers game.

So before you are sure of something, you should learn the facts and not just make assumptions.

As for the Buck Rodgers RPG, okay. So you like the game. Fine. Does anyone else?

Fair enough. But in the same vein, before you go and make statements about people (like Pondsmith) and how they feel (about XXVc) perhaps you should state whether or not it is a "Oh I read that if..." reference.

The way you initially said it was as a matter of fact. Like you have seen it happen and it sounded like he was indignant about the game and was bashing it. You didnt state that "his coworkers wrote that....la la la..."

Personally Id like to know what he didnt like about it?

[Atgxtg]

Fair enough. But in the same vein, before you go and make statements about people (like Pondsmith) and how they feel (about XXVc) perhaps you should state whether or not it is a "Oh I read that if..." reference.

The way you initially said it was as a matter of fact. Like you have seen it happen and it sounded like he was indignant about the game and was bashing it. You didnt state that "his coworkers wrote that....la la la..."

I can probably dig up the quote somewhere. I think it does have a quote from him as well. I didn't say he was indignant. Just that he hated it. Which if I recall correctly was in the quote.

Personally Id like to know what he didn't like about it?

Just about everything. Remember the game was not the sort of style that he prefers. It was, if I recall correctly, an AD&D variant. That is a far cry from the other RPGs that Pondsmith has written.

Persoanlly, I'd like to know what you like about it? You are the first person I've encountered with something nice to say about it. From what I saw the setting wasn't true to the source material either.

What was the good stuff that I missed?

[NickMiddleton]

If you dig around on the web you should be able to find EPT:RQ by none other than Sandy Petersen (CofC and DOOM).

Jorune could be interesting. It was always handicapped by having a crap "system" riddled with typoes. I'd be surprised if anyone wanted to officially resurrect it but BRP would be my choice for Jorune or any genre.

I think "crap" is a bit harsh - I successfully ran and played Jorune using both 2nd and 3rd edition and whilst 2nd was a bit clunky and counter intuitive, and 3rd was rushed into print and thus rather saddled with some glaring omissions and errors, it's a fabulous setting and (with the addition of the Sholari Pack that patched the errors) I'd happily play or run 3rd edition again in a heartbeat.

Admittedly, I'd prefer to finish the conversion to BRP I've been tinkering away at for several years now - I stopped work when the BRP play test started as what I had was predicated around "monograph" BRP. When I get a copy of the published rules I probably restart the project though. The draft of the Dysha's system is up at d100.org

Personally, I hope Chaosium do a lot of things like Jason's Planetary (but hopefully with scenarios as well) - stuff that will help games actually happen but that don't worry about licensing specific IP, as licensing is expensive and challenging to manage.

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

[Atgxtg]

I think I'm with Nick on this.

Unless Chaosium gets some BRP stuff out there for people to play, the system's value as an IP is somewhat moot anyway. Settings and adventures really are the lifeblood of RPGs.

Much as I dislike the MRQ system, I have to give Mongoose credit for getting a lot of MRQ product out in the stores. The quality isn't always high, but there is product.

For BRP to be successful, Chaosium will need to get a half dozen or so settings out to support it. Then an adventure pack or two.

Fortunately, it looks like we have 4 settings in the works, and a few unofficial ones floating around here.

[Zane]

Not only do they need to get settings and adventures out there, it also needs to be actual printed works, and not Monographs. How many potential customers will only buy the material in the shops (or Amazon) vs. how many will go to the trouble of dealing with the publisher?

Before anyone answers that last bit, kindly remember that for the most part, we are not the customers that Chaosium needs. How many of us are gamers that have been at it since the early 80's? (quite a few I think) How many of us are existing customers? (basically everyone I assume) How many of us are quite comfortable rolling their own settings and adventures? (again quite a few I think, which doesn't seem to be the norm) Chaosium needs new blood, new customers, these people will want settings books, and adventures, but if you force them to jump through hoops to get the additional materials, they'll go elsewhere.

This isn't to say that we're worthless to Chaosium, as we're not. We are the people that will get the initial word out (I'm guessing a lot of us have already been doing this). We are the ones that will work to get new blood interested. And last but not least, a lot of us can, and probably will buy any new books that are even remotely interesting to us (some will buy any new books).

Zane

[Atgxtg]

Zan raises a couple of good points.

First off only those who are familiar with Chaosium and BRP are going to know enough to go looking for stuff. Everyone else will need to see the product somehow to be exposed.

And yeah, if Chaoosium and BRP are to thrive, the need some new customers. Ultimately, as Mongoose has proven, it doesn't really matter from a business standpoint, just who buys you products, or even what they do with them, just as long as the products keep selling.

If someone decides to wallpaper a room with pages from BRP and buys 20 copies, that's 20 sales.