How do I roleplay Argrath?

[Scorus]

So my players are about to have the first of what I expect to be many meetings with Argrath (post-Dragonrise). I've read King of Sartar, Black Spear and other earlier pubs with him, but while those do well at his history and legend, they don't speak as much to his personality, so: How should I role-play him? By this time he is Illuminated and at least semi-Draconic, and influenced to one extent or another by Harrek, Giants, the Bison Tribe, the White Bull, his Colymar/Sartar upbringing, and who knows what else! I assume he is very strong in a wide variety of runes, including opposing ones since he is Illuminated. Would you play him as kind? tyrannical? just? power-hungry? arrogant? questioning of himself? mild-mannered (from Illumination)? volatile (as an Orlanthi)? extroverted? introspective? mature? immature?

And "Yes" may be accurate but is not, in fact, helpful. 🙂

[jajagappa]

7 minutes ago, Scorus said:

Would you play him as kind? tyrannical? just? power-hungry? arrogant? questioning of himself? mild-mannered (from Illumination)? volatile (as an Orlanthi)? extroverted? introspective? mature? immature?

I'd probably play him as "off in his own world". Distracted by many things, and only occasionally pulled back to the real world.

He's focused on his vision, which few others know or understand - and they all construe his actions differently based on their own traditions of power and leadership. His decisions are abrupt, and often seemingly arbitrary - confusing, yet he can calmly and rationally tell you why, even if you can't always follow his logic. What is clear is that he always sees the Red Moon as the ever-present danger - the Chaos within the World that must be fought with everything available - and that he has no tolerance for assassins and betrayers (though he knows he must inevitably be betrayed by his trickster, Elusu - and they undoubtedly joke about that much to everyone's confusion).

I might draw upon Paul Muad'dib for ideas - but not Paul from Dune, but from Dune Messiah. His draconic insights might yield a certain prescience, but not necessarily of a future, but of paths through the Gods War, some of which may be viable, and others not. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by jajagappa

[PhilHibbs]

I would go with fickle, distracted, and occasionally just ridiculously gung-ho. He doesn't see the world like others do, his priorities are far out of line with normality. He will have people around him trying to deal with some of the consequences of his disconnection from the mundane, but they are often in competition with each other.

[jajagappa]

4 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

He will have people around him trying to deal with some of the consequences of his disconnection from the mundane, but they are often in competition with each other.

And he will definitely delegate! Perhaps on a whim, but I think if someone starts going off about how he needs to do this or that, Argrath will smile and then say "Make it so". And whoever has been spouting off gets stuck with that task.

[Jens]

One thing I'd lean into is his charisma- while I agree with the suggestions that he'd often be distracted and focusing on things outside of the players' ken, I'd imagine that when he pays attention to you it would be like staring at the sun. He clearly has a personal magnetism that he uses to convince otherwise fractious Praxians, Orlanthi, and others to come along on his mad adventures.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Jens

[g33k]

51 minutes ago, Jens said:

One thing I'd lean into is his charisma- while I agree with the suggestions that he be often be distracted and focusing on things outside of the player's ken, I'd imagine that when he pays attention to you it would be like staring at the sun. He clearly has a personal magnetism that he uses to convince otherwise fractious Praxians, Orlanthi, and others to come along on his mad adventures.

☝️THIS!☝️

Orlanth forged alliances nobody else could.
He convinced enemies to ally with one another.
He conducted diplomacy in the mortal and Spirit realms alike.

He may often be deep into arcane plans, delving into deeper insights... boldly going where no one had gone before...

But when he turns his attention on you... it's inspiring, uplifting, empowering. 

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Jens said:

I'd imagine that when he pays attention to you it would be like staring at the sun.

Definitely! And, in fact, it makes a very disconcerting switch from the figure who you see staring off into the Otherworld and even talking to beings no one else sees. And then suddenly, he's with you, very present, and seemingly totally aware of what you were saying.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

In addition to the good ideas presented here, we've played Argrath as highly focused on "big things", where the ends justify the means.  Sometimes our PCs, or their clan or tribe, get trampled along the way. Sometimes they manage to intervene and help the "little people" or redirect Argrath's plans to better protect them.

[Joerg]

Rather than just fickle, I would present him with different personalities that may surface according to circumstances. We know two of these personalities - the Wind Lord Garrath Sharpsword, and the Orlanth holy person Argrath Dragonspear, from earlier publications. White Bull may be another character, and he may be possessed by aspects of Arkat.

Usually, he will be filtered and framed by some of his companions who may pull him into one of the known personas. (With Elusu present, you shouldn't rely on that.)

[Nick Brooke]

I like this take from Drew: The White Bull.

[Malin]

1 hour ago, Nick Brooke said:

I like this take from Drew: The White Bull.

Hah! I see he's been doing similar vibes as I am doing (but not exactly) with Argrath illuminated since his initiation. Love it, thank you for linking!

[Darius West]

On 11/23/2023 at 8:32 AM, Scorus said:

So my players are about to have the first of what I expect to be many meetings with Argrath (post-Dragonrise). I've read King of Sartar, Black Spear and other earlier pubs with him, but while those do well at his history and legend, they don't speak as much to his personality, so: How should I role-play him? By this time he is Illuminated and at least semi-Draconic, and influenced to one extent or another by Harrek, Giants, the Bison Tribe, the White Bull, his Colymar/Sartar upbringing, and who knows what else! I assume he is very strong in a wide variety of runes, including opposing ones since he is Illuminated. Would you play him as kind? tyrannical? just? power-hungry? arrogant? questioning of himself? mild-mannered (from Illumination)? volatile (as an Orlanthi)? extroverted? introspective? mature? immature?

And "Yes" may be accurate but is not, in fact, helpful. 🙂

On page 232 of the RQG there is an image of Argrath accepting Vasana's oath which he posted on r/roastme, so here goes.  You can clearly see that Argrath has a very big nose, the true majesty of which modern artists struggle to depict, or do not know about.  Argrath's mighty nose  marks him out as a scion of the Royal House of Sartar, and an Orlanthi holy man, as he can draw upon more of the power of the Air than other men, for is it not writ in the holy of holies "blessed are the big noses"?  It is a magnificent monster of a nose !  Bestial ! Heraldic in its ugliness !  His gigantic nose hangs minotaury over all proceedings he oversees like an inverted question mark, and augurs other bull sized parts the White Bull may possess.  There is not a woman alive who doesn't quiver at the thought of gazing, nay falling into, the terrible abyss of those cavernous nostrils, for it is a symbol at once both phallic and vaginal, such is it's power.  You wonder how he drank the Giant's Cauldron?  Now you know it wasn't with his mouth alone ! This feature makes Argrath a lord among men for they dare not, nay cannot, meet his gaze.  Onlookers fall silent, as they dare not stare at it, and yet they cannot quite look away.  Argrath's prodigious proboscis points ever towards destiny, and where the nose goes, all eyes must follow, for such is its' power and charisma.  Kallyr Starbrow had many fine and heroic gifts, but she was a failure.  Had she but been born with a nose like unto that of Prince Argrath's, history might have been written differently.  Crowds stand transfixed by the power of it as Argrath orates.  People forget his speeches, but they never forget his nose.  This is a nose that points to revolution, to conquest, to victory, and ever sniffs out the weak and  rotten heart of the Lunar Empire.  It is a nose that will rip down the Moon !  By this nose he rules !

You wondered why so little of Argrath's own words were ever recorded?  Well now you know the reason.  His scribes were distracted and muffed up their shorthand.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Darius West

[Ian Absentia]

I imagine Argrath and the Whitebull Brotherhood as something between the portrayal of Robin Hood and his merry men in the film Time Bandits and Lieutenant Colonel Kilgore and his air cavalry from Apocalypse Now.  Bulletproof, pure, eyes on the horizon, filled with conviction and mission, while turmoil spins outward from him like a cyclone.

"Jar-Eel don't surf, wot?"

!I!

Edited November 24, 2023 by Ian Absentia

[Jens]

7 hours ago, Darius West said:

Argrath has a very big nose, the true majesty of which modern artists struggle to depict

I’ll now forever picture Argrath as Cleopatra in Asterix and Cleopatra…

[soltakss]

On 11/22/2023 at 9:32 PM, Scorus said:

So my players are about to have the first of what I expect to be many meetings with Argrath (post-Dragonrise). I've read King of Sartar, Black Spear and other earlier pubs with him, but while those do well at his history and legend, they don't speak as much to his personality, so: How should I role-play him? By this time he is Illuminated and at least semi-Draconic, and influenced to one extent or another by Harrek, Giants, the Bison Tribe, the White Bull, his Colymar/Sartar upbringing, and who knows what else! I assume he is very strong in a wide variety of runes, including opposing ones since he is Illuminated. Would you play him as kind? tyrannical? just? power-hungry? arrogant? questioning of himself? mild-mannered (from Illumination)? volatile (as an Orlanthi)? extroverted? introspective? mature? immature?

He sees himself as a King to Be, someone with a destiny, someone powerful. This would affect how he treats people. Before he became powerful, when he was in Pavis, he was a friendly if not standoffish Adventurer. Now he has returned from his voyage with Harrek he is a changed man. He is probably arrogant and doesn't interact with common people. He is King of Pavis so has people to talk to other people. He is surrounded by his bodyguards and council, so he listens to them. When he talks to other people, they are summoned to his Council. 

So, he would be arrogant, driven, power-hungry, almost desperate, probably volatile.

[Nick Brooke]

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

He is probably arrogant and doesn't interact with common people. He is King of Pavis so has people to talk to other people. He is surrounded by his bodyguards and council, so he listens to them. When he talks to other people, they are summoned to his Council. 

So, he would be arrogant, driven, power-hungry, almost desperate, probably volatile.

I make that two votes for Cleopatra. Any more?

[Grievous]

The Doors - When The Music's Over (Live At The Bowl '68)

This was my immediate instinctual thought as an answer to this!

I mean, Jim Morrison, but also don't forget that it's a whole band... 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Grievous

[Scorus]

Thanks for all of these, I've been mulling over how I can use them. The players are going to encounter Argrath in hell, in a highly bastardized version of Black Spear. He will be strung out and vulnerable, so they will see a side of him that he does not want others to see. On one hand, this will be a great contrast to his completely confident, messianic persona that this thread brings out. On the other, it will be consistent with that same persona's mystical side that draws on much that few can comprehend. One doesn't find answers when one gets to know Argrath, only deeper mysteries.

[Squaredeal Sten]

When I ran Black Spear, among the long term effects I took from it was that my Adventurers had seen Argrath at his worst and most vulnerable.  This was after they had seen him in Company of the Dragon, where he is super competent, alert, and friendly. 

So if was interesting to see how the players themselves reacted to Argrath when he rose to Prince.  They have his confidence, he doesn't doubt their loyalty because if they had meant him harm they had their chance to do harm in Prax, and instead they healed him.   He owes them from Black Spear.  But they never are so tactless as to remind Argrath of when they saw him strung out.  He is a questgiver.  

Anyway, to summarize, Argrath is capable of playing many roles.  Capable of being all things to all men, though not simultaneously.  So when you ask how Argrath acts, ordinarily you might think about what he wants from the people he is dealing with.

Edited January 1 by Squaredeal Sten
last paragraph

[Stephen L]

Probably way to late for this old thread, but there's probably some good material to be gleaned from Jeff's White Bull campaign.

It's a while since I listened to them, but I vaguely remember some useful Argrath stuff from the early episodes (episode 11 maybe)

Perhaps the episode list will help.

 For those is a rush, you can watch at 1.5 times speed... There are some great ideas and themes to steal...

[soltakss]

16 hours ago, Scorus said:

Thanks for all of these, I've been mulling over how I can use them. The players are going to encounter Argrath in hell, in a highly bastardized version of Black Spear. He will be strung out and vulnerable, so they will see a side of him that he does not want others to see. On one hand, this will be a great contrast to his completely confident, messianic persona that this thread brings out. On the other, it will be consistent with that same persona's mystical side that draws on much that few can comprehend. One doesn't find answers when one gets to know Argrath, only deeper mysteries.

That is a good start, as the Adventurers can make a connection with Argrath by helping him to escape from Hell, if he has become trapped. 

 

[Nick Brooke]

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

That is a good start, as the Adventurers can make a connection with Argrath by helping him to escape from Hell, if he has become trapped. 

It’s from “Black Spear,” Simon.

[Darius West]

In terms of his personality, the first thing to remember is that Argrath is a military genius.  He is slow to show his hand, and normally has a series of tricks in reserve for when things don't go his way.  Argrath is intensely intelligent, and can read a battlefield or a room with ease.  Argrath is illuminated, and that means that he is able to see opportunity in the sort of calamity that would drive everyone else to despair. His illumination also makes him seem mercurial.  Argrath is given to the awkward pause, and will stand observing his underlings until they start talking again out of sheer nervousness, often blurting out the truth.   Argrath has made an in-depth study of how the Lunar administration operates, and has a  fine sense of what they do well, and what they do poorly, and what he can copy, and what he must change.  Argrath has been leading warriors for a long time, but he is aware that logistics are every bit as important as actual combat.  He understands the value of bureaucrats and muleteers.  Argrath is also extremely well versed in the lore o Glorantha.  Yes, he is an opportunist, but that is born of being hounded by Lunar assassins, enslaved by Praxians, murdered by Harrek, and betrayed by Sartarites for coin.  Argrath would not be alive if he weren't a gifted student of human nature.  It is also worth pointing out that Argrath may well be an initiate of a great many cults, due to his illumination.  Storm Bull, Trickster, and Humakt are obvious choices, as well as Nysalor, apart from the obvious Orlanth.  Argrath is always interested in intrigues and gossip, and is likely bisexual.  Argrath considers loyalty to him as the most precious currency.  He is also sufficiently wise and self-serving to know to reward his followers with fresh problems.  Does he have a region that is giving him trouble?  Parcel it out to a successful commander as a "reward".

[Rodney Dangerduck]

8 hours ago, Darius West said:

Argrath is illuminated, and that means that he is able to see opportunity in the sort of calamity that would drive everyone else to despair

I agree with everything in your excellent post, other than the above sentence.  I don't think that Illumination has such an effect.  If it does, it's very very indirect.

[mfbrandi]

45 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

9 hours ago, Darius West said:

Argrath is illuminated, and that means that he is able to see opportunity in the sort of calamity that would drive everyone else to despair

… I don't think that Illumination has such an effect.

The sang froid of the illuminate, perhaps: “If you can meet with and / And treat those two impostors just the same.”

Mostly, I just shrug at any “because illumination” explanations, excuses, or whatever. I am sure I will never grasp exactly what the designers mean.