Maslo : what do they look like?

[Manu]

Hi,

I plan to start a campaign in Maslo. In the GoG, it is said that 'they are of Agimori Physique'. I then imagined that they would be of dark skin, Like the one described in Jolar.

But a few page later, there is a drawing of the grand harbor of Westel. And the people depicted there looks more like mesoamerican type (Mayas, Aztecs,..). Which I find nice. But then I'm don't know how to represent them (and how to describe them to my players, used to play in Sartar)

 

Someone can clarify this for me?

Edited October 16, 2016 by Manu

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, Manu said:

Hi,

I plan to start a campaign in Maslo. In the GoG, it is said that 'they are of Agimori Physique'. I then imagined that they would be of dark skin, Like the one described in Jolar.

The people of Maslo are dark-skinned, but, as with the Wareran of Genertela, who are a fair to olive-skinned race (though blue and other hues are not unknown) there's considerable variation.

Their appearance and range of coloration might be gleaned from their myth of origin in Thinobutu where Soli made men and women out of red earth, brown sand, gray earth, and black mud. For example, the people of Thinokos have pale-blue skin and also claim to have come from Thinobutu.

Edited October 16, 2016 by M Helsdon

[David Scott]

What you ask isn't in the Guide. Page 17 says 

Quote

Three of Glorantha’s four major human racial types roughly correspond to Earthly equivalents, but the fourth is unique.

...

Agimori: a dark-skinned race native to Pamaltela. 

It doesn't say anything other than they are a racial type of Glorantha and that they correspond to dark skinned people on Earth. It then mentions who the others correspond to. Looking at the Westel picture shows people that don't quite fit as you mentioned. Perhaps these are Wareran rulers of Flanch that lord it over agimori subjects. The Dynast was a pirate that sailed around. Likely he's not a native IMO.

[metcalph]

Dynast is a title which may be in use in the Eastern Isles (there's a reference to Dynasts in Vormain - Guide p539) and given the close connection between the Eastern isles and Maslo, there's likely to be a lot of cultural influences.  There are also Malkioni refugees from the Closing in addition to the Waertagi (Guide p138) so it is a rather cosmopolitian place.  Because of the Closing, I don't think Hoom Jhis is a pirate from elsewhere.  He rises up against the Vadeli between 1588 and 1594 whereas the Opening doesn't reach Teleos until 1595 (and the Flanchi don't reach there until 1598).

When the comment about the pale blues of Thinokos first appeared in Revealed Mythologies, I considered it a mistake because the people of Maslo are not pale blues.  Since it has appeared authoritatively in the Guide, I find their origin to be rather obscure.  I kind of doubt they are Artmali-related as they wouldn't be distinguishable from the local blueskins.  They could be related to the Sendereven though. 

 

[M Helsdon]

4 hours ago, metcalph said:

When the comment about the pale blues of Thinokos first appeared in Revealed Mythologies, I considered it a mistake because the people of Maslo are not pale blues.  Since it has appeared authoritatively in the Guide, I find their origin to be rather obscure.  I kind of doubt they are Artmali-related as they wouldn't be distinguishable from the local blueskins.  They could be related to the Sendereven though. 

Whilst the God Learner maps in the Guide must be treated with caution (being God Learner constructs) from them it is apparent that Thinobutu and its inhabitants are not descended from the Agi or the Agimori. See the map on page 683, where the Thinobutu People are both distinct and distant from Pamalt's Fields. The map on page 684 makes it clear they are not Artmali either. The text on page 690 states that some people escaped from Thinobutu on the ships of the Blue People...

From this I draw the conclusion that whilst the majority of people in Maslo are pure Agimori, there is a relic population from Thinobutu of an undefined racial type (one of those 'Other minor human or semi-human races' mentioned in the Guide).

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

Whilst the God Learner maps in the Guide must be treated with caution (being God Learner constructs) from them it is apparent that Thinobutu and its inhabitants are not descended from the Agi or the Agimori. See the map on page 683, where the Thinobutu People are both distinct and distant from Pamalt's Fields. The map on page 684 makes it clear they are not Artmali either. The text on page 690 states that some people escaped from Thinobutu on the ships of the Blue People...

Since the people of Teleos to the north are said to seem racially similar to the Agimori (apart from the skin colour) Guide p523, I'm inclined to say that the same is true of the Masloi and other Thinobutan descendants.  Most have dark coloured skin but some have red or gray according to the creation myth.

The mention of escapees from Thinobutu on the ships of the Blue People is a Thinokosan myth (Revealed Mythologies p56) which has them also using tidal powers to defeat the waters in the first torrential war.  However the tidal powers are an Artmali Power and the Thinobutans are not said to be Artmali.  Hence I suspect corruption in the Thinokos myths that were used by the God Learners in compiling the Monomyth and that the Thinokosans acquired tidal powers and blue skins in Ulrana through unknown events.

 

 

[Mark Mohrfield]

Just to add even more confusion to this, the now non-canonical Men of The Sea supplement states "The Miirdekities are the seagoing folk from the peninsulas of Elamle and Onlaks, on the coasts of the Maslo Sea. They are tall and dark-skinned, with blond and red hair."

[Pentallion]

6 hours ago, metcalph said:

Since the people of Teleos to the north are said to seem racially similar to the Agimori (apart from the skin colour) Guide p523, I'm inclined to say that the same is true of the Masloi and other Thinobutan descendants.  Most have dark coloured skin but some have red or gray according to the creation myth.

The mention of escapees from Thinobutu on the ships of the Blue People is a Thinokosan myth (Revealed Mythologies p56) which has them also using tidal powers to defeat the waters in the first torrential war.  However the tidal powers are an Artmali Power and the Thinobutans are not said to be Artmali.  Hence I suspect corruption in the Thinokos myths that were used by the God Learners in compiling the Monomyth and that the Thinokosans acquired tidal powers and blue skins in Ulrana through unknown events.

 

 

Not sure I see the problem with the Thinkosan myth.  If they escaped Thinobutu on the ships of the Blue People and the Artmali are blue people with tidal powers then it seems reasonable they would use tidal powers to defeat the waters in the first torrential war.  This does not require teh Thinobutans to be Artmali, only that they escaped on Artmali ships.

[g33k]

To be clear I'm understanding:

Does Gloranthan "canon" currently hold the Praxian Agimori to be "man-and-a-half" stature?  I have always interpreted that to mean:

The smallest Agimori was about average-human sized
The "average" Agimori was about the size of the largest regular humans
The largest Agimori are substantially larger than regular humans -- looking eye-to-eye with mounted riders (except High Llama), even looking down to see smaller riders.
Despite the frequent likening to the Zulu tribe, I have presumed the Agimori of Prax to be larger than the "real-world" Zulu.

Are (any or all of) the various peoples (under discussion above) of "man-and-a-half" stature, either as I've laid out above or (if canon says I'm wrong) as otherwise established?

Thank'ee kindly!

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Pentallion said:

Not sure I see the problem with the Thinkosan myth.  If they escaped Thinobutu on the ships of the Blue People and the Artmali are blue people with tidal powers then it seems reasonable they would use tidal powers to defeat the waters in the first torrential war.  This does not require teh Thinobutans to be Artmali, only that they escaped on Artmali ships.

The tidal powers are said to be used by the Thinobutans, not the Blue People.  

[M Helsdon]

7 hours ago, metcalph said:

Since the people of Teleos to the north are said to seem racially similar to the Agimori (apart from the skin colour) Guide p523, I'm inclined to say that the same is true of the Masloi and other Thinobutan descendants.  Most have dark coloured skin but some have red or gray according to the creation myth.

True: that's pretty much what I stated in my earlier comment.

7 hours ago, metcalph said:

The mention of escapees from Thinobutu on the ships of the Blue People is a Thinokosan myth (Revealed Mythologies p56) which has them also using tidal powers to defeat the waters in the first torrential war.  

It is also mentioned in the Guide.

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

To be clear I'm understanding:

Does Gloranthan "canon" currently hold the Praxian Agimori to be "man-and-a-half" stature?  

They are described as such in both the Guide (p27) and in Pavis: Gateway to Adventure p50 and p97

 

 

 

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Does Gloranthan "canon" currently hold the Praxian Agimori to be "man-and-a-half" stature?  I have always interpreted that to mean:

The smallest Agimori was about average-human sized
The "average" Agimori was about the size of the largest regular humans
The largest Agimori are substantially larger than regular humans -- looking eye-to-eye with mounted riders (except High Llama), even looking down to see smaller riders.
Despite the frequent likening to the Zulu tribe, I have presumed the Agimori of Prax to be larger than the "real-world" Zulu.

In Wyrms Footnotes#12 and Borderlands Referee Handbook the Praxian Agimori are defined so:

STR 3D6+6

CON 1D4+14

SIZ 3D6+6

INT 3D6

POW 3D6

CHA 3D6

This makes them on average a bit tougher and taller than the average non-Praxian Agimori but not literally 'man-and-a-half' sized.

Edited October 17, 2016 by M Helsdon

[g33k]

1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

• STR 3D6+6
• CON 1D4+14
• SIZ 3D6+6

This makes them on average a bit tougher and taller than the average non-Praxian Agimori but not literally 'man-and-a-half' sized.

OK, that was roughly what I recalled.

It's more than "a bit" tougher, IMHO -- the cumulative STR/CON/SIZ advantages add up cumulatively to a substantial advantage!

And it fits roughly with my prior "littlest-Agimori about human-average / Average-Agimore about human-maximum / biggest-Agimori notably-larger than straight-up humanity" .

And is this also the STR/CON/SIZ (especially SIZ!) of the other races under discussion above?  Or is that not stat'ed out in canon?

 

[M Helsdon]

2 minutes ago, g33k said:

And is this also the STR/CON/SIZ (especially SIZ!) of the other races under discussion above?  Or is that not stat'ed out in canon?

 

Purely the Praxian Agimori. I am unaware of any canonical stats for the inhabitants of Pamaltela.

[Manu]

Thanks for all these answers. But does that mean than the average people of Maslo are of the Agimori type? How can I describe them to my players? Men-and-a-half african men type? Mesoamerican type? Skin color? Hair? Size?

[M Helsdon]

5 minutes ago, Manu said:

Thanks for all these answers. But does that mean than the average people of Maslo are of the Agimori type? How can I describe them to my players? Men-and-a-half african men type? Mesoamerican type? Skin color? Hair? Size?

Primarily Agimori (though not Praxian Agimori) - dark skinned but with more variation than you'll find on the plains further south: black, dark red, dark brown, a few with grey/pale blue skin. Hair, probably black or dark brown. Size: normal human. 

Be warned that in terrestrial Africa and Mesoamerica, there's a significant variation in skin tone, so it is hardly surprising that the same is true in Glorantha.

Edited October 17, 2016 by M Helsdon

[jajagappa]

When I ran a brief Maslo campaign, I used a blend of Doraddi (typical Pamaltelan who are not as tall as Praxian Agimori - the men-and-a-half are an exceptional group not standard), along with a mix of Earth-based Filipino and Amerindian look-and-feel. And you could certainly add in a variety of hair coloration.

I don't see any evidence to suggest they are anything but standard human size.  GtG simply notes: "Agimori: a dark-skinned race native to Pamaltela".  The Praxian Agimori seem far more kin to the Agitori noted on p.615: "The “Tall Zone” is a place where Agimori might encounter a band of Agitori (the original demigod race, kin of the Ancestors, who did not drink water and thus retained immortality). These oversized superhumans live along a stretch of dangerous territory along the northern edge of the Nargan Desert to keep its monsters in, and puny humans from the north out."

I'd more likely draw on the Thinobutans as described GtG p.683. "Thinobutu: Soli made men and women out of red earth, brown sand, gray earth, and black mud. Each man and woman made love to the others, and they became the ancestors of the Sixteen Families of Thinobutu."  Take those four colorings and mix together in different ways and you'll have the folk of Maslo (and perhaps provides a range for hair and eye coloration as well) perhaps with a predominance towards the black, brown, and red tones given intermingling with the Doraddi.

[Yelm's Light]

11 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

In Wyrms Footnotes#12 and Borderlands Referee Handbook the Praxian Agimori are defined so:

STR 3D6+6

CON 1D4+14

SIZ 3D6+6

INT 3D6

POW 3D6

CHA 3D6

This makes them on average a bit tougher and taller than the average non-Praxian Agimori but not literally 'man-and-a-half' sized.

RQIII's Agimori (in River of Cradles) is mostly the same, except:

CON  1D6 + 12,  INT 2D6 + 6,  adds DEX 3D6, and calls CHA APP.

Unfortunately, the only Moon Design big book that I'm missing is Borderlands, so I can't check what they have it as under RQ2.  I expect that they at least changed CON from D4-based to D6-based.

 

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, Yelm's Light said:

Unfortunately, the only Moon Design big book that I'm missing is Borderlands, so I can't check what they have it as under RQ2.  I expect that they at least changed CON from D4-based to D6-based.

Identical to the entry in the original Borderlands Referee Handbook quoted above.

[Darius West]

Thankfully the Maslo don't make sacrifices at the Pyramid of Needs.

[hkokko]

Maslo Agimori - what would they dress like. Are they dressing similarly to Fonritan's overall in GoG or something else. 

[metcalph]

28 minutes ago, hkokko said:

Maslo Agimori - what would they dress like. Are they dressing similarly to Fonritan's overall in GoG or something else. 

Being a wealthy and cosmopolitian culture, I would suggest a mixture of styles with Fonritan, Vithelan and Holy Country clothing.

[jajagappa]

28 minutes ago, hkokko said:

Maslo Agimori - what would they dress like. Are they dressing similarly to Fonritan's overall in GoG or something else. 

I'd likely look at a cross or blend between Polynesian, Filipino, and perhaps Indonesian styles.  They are coastal and sea-faring, so that will impact costume.  The use of color may depend on whether it attracts the spawn of the Mother of Monsters (or not).  Bird feathers are likely common, though, at least in ritual headdresses.

[jajagappa]

14 minutes ago, metcalph said:

 Being a wealthy and cosmopolitian culture

I don't tend to see the Maslo as wealthy and cosmopolitan - there's only one city (Westel) larger than a small city in either peninsula, and it's only a large city.  Where many of the cities are also overrun regularly by chaotic monsters (in Elamle) or elves (in Onlaks/Flanch), there's little opportunity to develop that level of culture.

Edited February 3, 2018 by jajagappa