Swords of Central Genertela

[soltakss]

3 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Latest. Have wanted to draw a phalangite with a sarissa for some time - but these pikes were so long (this is towards the shorter variety) that it would take up too much space (so the sketches of the other phalangites have the pike cut off at head level). Realized I could create a 'back cover' (wording not final).

You could do it with a paper inset that folds out for the length of the pike.

[M Helsdon]

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

You could do it with a paper inset that folds out for the length of the pike.

Laughs. Falls off chair. Leaves keyboard to cat:     3ew222222222222222w6t55555555 [Genuine cat typing]

Back on chair: Hmm, I had five or six hardbacks printed last year to give out to Chaosium and a licensee at Dragonmeet, and it cost an arm and a leg. I fear insets would be very expensive. Mass printing would significantly lower the price, but a 380 page book on Gloranthan warfare would have to see hundreds of copies. This is why I decided to use the back cover (I know it is usual to place artwork already inside the book on the back cover, but this gives me another page.

[M Helsdon]

Latest, and possibly last, sketch for the book (unless I can find more room). Thought people might be amused by the stages:

1. Preparatory sketch - Sea Peoples' 'feather helmet', body armour a mixture of Mycenean/Hallstatt culture
2. Line sketch. At this stage decided to change the axe from generic to more unusual - anachronistic, but this is based on an 18th century Indo/Persian 'antelope axe' sans antelope head.
3. Inked shading. Axe modified to look more like an Air Rune.
4. Basic digital shading.
5. Shading finished; sketch annotated.

This is a female Wolf Pirate in Gold-Gotti's 'regiment'. She is wearing a Sartarite panoply and her Wolf Pirate helm.

Also back cover.

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

Flier Filler. A medium sized Moon Boat.

And there may be room for another sketch on the back cover... Undecided regarding regiment.

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by M Helsdon

[Qizilbashwoman]

1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

Flier Filler. A medium sized Moon Boat.

And there may be room for another sketch on the back cover... Undecided regarding regiment.

 

yay, moon boat

didn't one of the Imperial Lunar Handbooks discuss the making of these? They were made of moon reeds that grew in only one place on Genertela.

[Sir_Godspeed]

8 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

yay, moon boat

didn't one of the Imperial Lunar Handbooks discuss the making of these? They were made of moon reeds that grew in only one place on Genertela.

And tied with moon rope that comes from the moon hemp, and cut only with moon knives... Okay, I'll stop. 😅

[Qizilbashwoman]

15 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

And tied with moon rope that comes from the moon hemp, and cut only with moon knives... Okay, I'll stop. 😅

Ah yes, it's book 1, the section about the Highest Priestess of SurEnslib, the Heron Goddess, whose name is Beveletia: it's the reed-boats of the Waders of Darjiin built with (red, I think) moon-reeds that grew after the Red Moon rose.

Quote

Beveletia is powerful within the Empire for her role in the construction of the moonboats. Yestendos is SurEnslib’s lover and built high-prowed reed boats to save the Darjiini from the Great Flood. A Darjiini hero, Vargar, first discovered the magic of the moon-reeds of the Occluded Sea from which the boats are built. Since the secrets of their construction, consecration, and navigation come from Yestendos, Vargar must propitiate SurEnslib and Beveletia exacts a high price. Each time a new moonboat is required, a lengthy bargaining session begins, with the Empire offering privileges and inducements. The Emperor has attempted to steal these secrets on several occasions, but the plans have been foiled by the protection of SurEnslib. Beveletia, like her predecessors, has so far proved unconquerable.

Volume 2:

Quote

Moonboats are magically-awakened reed boats capable of flying through the air on the beams of the Red Moon. They are built of magical moon-reeds and may be any size, from small, one-person skiffs to huge transports capable of carrying hundreds of warriors. In style they mimic the reed boats common in the swamps of Darjiin: elongated crescents built of reed bundles.

The majority of moonboats are simple cargo ships, carrying passengers and freight. A few are military vessels and have features such as boarding ramps, ballistae, and archer towers. These military moonboats are used to provide missile support to troops on the ground, land a fighting force in the rear of the enemy army, or fight aerial enemies.

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[Sir_Godspeed]

3 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Ah yes, it's book 1, the section about the Highest Priestess of SurEnslib, the Heron Goddess, whose name is Beveletia: it's the reed-boats of the Waders of Darjiin built with (red, I think) moon-reeds that grew after the Red Moon rose.

 

Oh, I didn't doubt you - just the tendency to stuff "moon" in front of everything is kinda funny.

[Qizilbashwoman]

50 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Oh, I didn't doubt you - just the tendency to stuff "moon" in front of everything is kinda funny.

well i mean... what else would you end up calling the special reeds that a Hero transplanted from the Occluded Sea on the Red Moon and now grow only in Heron Temples, to be fair to the Darjiinians? It's not like there were moon people that had names you could use, Sedenya made the Red Moon fresh from the oven after she was reborn.

[Joerg]

There do appear to be natives of the moon - e.g. moon elves of the forests that have been on the moon from the beginning.

It isn't quite clear whether the cities and citadels on the moon were created along with the celestial body or whether they were built in the First Wane. It is quite clear that they are populated now, but whether by immigrants from Peloria or by people spending their Lunar afterlife there isn't clear either.

[M Helsdon]

9 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

didn't one of the Imperial Lunar Handbooks discuss the making of these? They were made of moon reeds that grew in only one place on Genertela.

I use the description in the Guide as the ILH are not canonical. Most of the books of that... period... are now highly unreliable.

Whilst silver from the Red Moon is used in their construction, the special wood used comes from the Yolp Mountains. The boats are used to transport messengers, important people, and rarely groups of elite soldiers (and doubtless assassins); there are no Moon War Boats, certainly in the early stages of the Hero Wars: too expensive to risk in combat.

Edited October 4, 2019 by M Helsdon

[Qizilbashwoman]

3 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

I use the description in the Guide as the ILH are not canonical. Most of the books of that... period... are now highly unreliable.

Whilst silver from the Red Moon is used in their construction, the special wood used comes from the Yolp Mountains. The boats are used to transport messengers, important people, and rarely groups of elite soldiers (and doubtless assassins); there are no Moon War Boats, certainly in the early stages of the Hero Wars: too expensive to risk in combat.

excellent!

while I enjoyed the story of how the Darjiinians survived the flood (I enjoy all the stories of how non-Dara Happans survived the so-called "World-Ending Flood", particularly the Mernitans, who ... lived on high ground and now could fish easily), it always seemed ... not ideal to have them made of reeds. Terrible, in fact.

[metcalph]

36 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

excellent!

while I enjoyed the story of how the Darjiinians survived the flood (I enjoy all the stories of how non-Dara Happans survived the so-called "World-Ending Flood", particularly the Mernitans, who ... lived on high ground and now could fish easily), it always seemed ... not ideal to have them made of reeds. Terrible, in fact.

The idea that Moon-boats were made from reeds stemmed from a desire to make Yestendos (Darjiinian God of Reed Boats) relevant.  The lunar handbooks spoiled this somewhat by giving the Moonboats to Vargar the Sky Mariner, which seemed an unnecessary profusion of names to me.  That reed boats are highly impractical compared to ordinary boats was intentional as it made the Lunars use obsolete vessels for magical effect, something which was coming through in Greg's writings viz-a-viz chariots and the like at the time.  But the idea that moonboats are made from reeds is not actually something he's ever written AFAIK.

Edited October 4, 2019 by metcalph

[M Helsdon]

3 minutes ago, metcalph said:

But the idea that moonboats are made from reeds is not actually something he's ever written AFAIK.

After buying Hero Wars Deluxe - which pretty much terminated my gaming group as none of us could get a handle on it, so we finished that session playing Stormbringer straight out of the box  - I lost contact with Glorantha until I heard about the Guide Kickstarter, which I initially backed out of nostalgia, so missed that entire era.

The Moon Boat sketch is used very much as a spot illo to help fill a gap.

[Qizilbashwoman]

1 minute ago, M Helsdon said:

After buying Hero Wars Deluxe - which pretty much terminated my gaming group as none of us could get a handle on it, so we finished that session playing Stormbringer straight out of the box  - I lost contact with Glorantha until I heard about the Guide Kickstarter, which I initially backed out of nostalgia, so missed that entire era.

The Moon Boat sketch is used very much as a spot illo to help fill a gap.

clarification my posts were not a criticism it's amazing i love it

[M Helsdon]

12 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

clarification my posts were not a criticism it's amazing i love it

Understood. 

Am currently roughing out the next sketch, which will be inked if there is room for it. As the back cover features a Sairdite and a Wolf Pirate, decided to draw another Orlanthi.

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

After buying Hero Wars Deluxe - which pretty much terminated my gaming group as none of us could get a handle on it, so we finished that session playing Stormbringer straight out of the box  - I lost contact with Glorantha until I heard about the Guide Kickstarter, which I initially backed out of nostalgia, so missed that entire era.

I had the same problem. I had trouble to even convincing people to restart RQ. Only RQG appearance allowed me to restart interest.

[Qizilbashwoman]

1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

Understood. 

Am currently roughing out the next sketch, which will be inked if there is room for it. As the back cover features a Sairdite and a Wolf Pirate, decided to draw another Orlanthi.

You have such lovely art, I'd love to request a Sylilan Odayling or something equally non-"Heartland". Still Theyalan, still classified "hostile barbarian", but focused on gods essentially unknown in Kerofinela. The Two Cafols are supposed to be very strange places. I bet you could draw some really interesting armour.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[g33k]

18 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Isn't this illo of a reed boat?

And as a HW product... wouldn't this have been Greg's initiative & editorial control?  Or do I misunderstand that?

 

3 hours ago, metcalph said:

...  That reed boats are highly impractical compared to ordinary boats was intentional as it made the Lunars use obsolete vessels for magical effect, something which was coming through in Greg's writings viz-a-viz chariots and the like at the time.  But the idea that moonboats are made from reeds is not actually something he's ever written AFAIK.

I quite LIKE the use of "impractical" and/or "obsolete" equipment for magical/mythological reasons!  I see no reason at all to prefer "wood from the Yolp mountains" over the Moon-Reeds of ILH era...   Why was this change instigated, does anyone know?

And as noted, wouldn't the image (above) have been one Greg solicited/reviewed/approved?  I don't think we need to prefer he have "written" this in text, when the illustration clearly shows his intent just as well...  But for textual confirmation, is there any way to contact the artist (or art director) in question, find out if they have any notes/etc from the project?

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

And as noted, wouldn't the image (above) have been one Greg solicited/reviewed/approved?  I don't think we need to prefer he have "written" this in text, when the illustration clearly shows his intent just as well...  But for textual confirmation, is there any way to contact the artist (or art director) in question, find out if they have any notes/etc from the project?

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but the above illustration of a moonboat is a new one, from M Helsdon, it has never appeared in any previous publication, Greg-approved or otherwise.

[M Helsdon]

6 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

You have such lovely art, I'd love to request a Sylilan Odayling or something equally non-"Heartland". Still Theyalan, still classified "hostile barbarian", but focused on gods essentially unknown in Kerofinela. The Two Cafols are supposed to be very strange places. I bet you could draw some really interesting armour.

Thank you. There are a fair number of sketches of non-Lunar, non-Dara Happan Pelorians in the book. Don't believe I have drawn any Odaylings, as I have drawn a fair number of other peltasts/psiloi.

Am now in the high nineties for the number of figures drawn and there's a fairly wide spread of different varieties of Orlanthi, Yelmalions, Pelorians, and a couple of Horse People, and a few Praxians.

4 hours ago, g33k said:

Isn't this illo of a reed boat?

No. The planks are visible, at least in the version shared here. If I were drawing reeds, would have used a very different texture.

---------------------------------------

Have received another request to share the full document. Due to the amount of Chaosium IP included within it, I regret that I can only share with Chaosium (latest version just uploaded), licensees (with Chaosium permission) and reviewers designated by Chaosium. I can share my sketches and the odd page, but would get into trouble if the thing escaped into the wild.

Started roughing out the next sketch: an Orlanthi Wind Lord wearing a scale hauberk. Small scale is devilishly detailed, so this one will take several days, if it works.

Edited October 4, 2019 by M Helsdon

[Joerg]

6 hours ago, g33k said:

Isn't this illo of a reed boat?

And as a HW product... wouldn't this have been Greg's initiative & editorial control?  Or do I misunderstand that?

Greg's direct involvement in editorial control may have been a lot smaller than people think. Quite often this was left in the hands of the line editor, also during the times of Issaries Inc.

According to Sandy Petersen, Greg always was an ideas person in his creativity, putting out lots of ideas and not usually minding whether these ideas matched previous ideas - that was Sandy's role during his employment with Chaosium.

 

6 hours ago, g33k said:

I quite LIKE the use of "impractical" and/or "obsolete" equipment for magical/mythological reasons!  I see no reason at all to prefer "wood from the Yolp mountains" over the Moon-Reeds of ILH era...   Why was this change instigated, does anyone know?

Was it changed?

We have the information that two out of three clans/families who know the secret of making moon boats were exterminated in Dart Competitions, creating a monopoly.

There is a good probability that at least one of these families had a secret that involved reeds for a reed boat.

 

6 hours ago, g33k said:

And as noted, wouldn't the image (above) have been one Greg solicited/reviewed/approved? 

As far as I have experienced Greg, yes, this image would in all likelihood have been heartily approved.

There has been many a situation where Greg was visiting some exotic Convention site or picturesque nature nearby, looking at the landscape and proclaiming "this is how I think Sartar looks like", whether in Finland, the Rhine Valley, or other such locations.

Probably referring to the spiritual/emotional reaction exposure to the landscape produced in him.

6 hours ago, g33k said:

I don't think we need to prefer he have "written" this in text, when the illustration clearly shows his intent just as well...  But for textual confirmation, is there any way to contact the artist (or art director) in question, find out if they have any notes/etc from the project?

There is hardly any documentation on the editorial process available from the Issaries Inc. period, except for private exchanges between the editors and authors or third party commentators, none of these publically available.

There have been differences in vision and method of key authors and contributors from that time, too.

[JanPospisil]

On 10/4/2019 at 3:19 PM, Qizilbashwoman said:

You have such lovely art, I'd love to request a Sylilan Odayling or something equally non-"Heartland". Still Theyalan, still classified "hostile barbarian", but focused on gods essentially unknown in Kerofinela. The Two Cafols are supposed to be very strange places. I bet you could draw some really interesting armour.

 

This gives me an idea - apologies for the thread hijacking!

I've been thinking of doing Inktober this year. Probably not every single day, but I'd still be happy for any ideas on what to draw.

We can separate it into another thread.

Like one or two figures or creatures (not necessarily warriors), with all the info I would need to draw them. (or the info there is, possibly with ideas on what historical stuff could serve as inspiration)

Basically - yes, I will draw your character, though if they weren't all Orlanthi, that'd be easier.

Edited October 5, 2019 by JanPospisil

[M Helsdon]

3 hours ago, JanPospisil said:

I've been thinking of doing Inktober this year. Probably not every single day, but I'd still be happy for any ideas on what to draw.

Just looked up Inktober - for the 'competition' requires a drawing a day?

Will look forward to seeing your results.

Sadly, it takes me between three and five days to finish a sketch.

[JanPospisil]

Not really a competition, it's supposed to be more of an inspiration to draw every day. But yeah, with my workload I'll be lucky to get a drawing every other day.