Swords of Central Genertela

[davecake]

29 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Diacritics. Interesting. So Western might be a kind of abjad (Base consonant + vowel symbol above or below).

If Western is an abjad, the diacritics are probably a recent (God Leaner era?) innovation, and the Brithini just did without, like ancient Hebrew. Making Ancient Western documents kind of readable, but super annoying, to modern readers, which sounds right.

Personally, though, I’ve always preferred the idea that multiple languages using the one Western script that is mutually readable implies that Western is logographic like Chinese. Another thing in favour of this theory is that logographic scripts are older than alphabetic, and Western is supposed to be very ancient. If it is logographic, the component pictographs used to make compound characters would include (but not be limited to) the Runes. 

[M Helsdon]

6 hours ago, Tindalos said:

Potential sources include the runic glyphs on the Seshnegi coin on page 12 of the guide, the coded script of the Codex Ivesti on pages 146-149 (based on the script of the voynich manuscript), the cuneiform style writing used by the Pithdaran sorcerer on page 380 of RQG (a black and white version is in the colouring book and can be clearer)

Yes, that helps.

6 hours ago, metcalph said:

From the Guide to Glorantha Kickstarter:

Thanks - that almost gives me enough.

From what I can determine, Westerners put lines of text from their holy books on shields, walls, etc. even when the text is not related to a spell.

I am assuming from the way it is written there, that the script is a form of alphabet.

Edited April 17, 2020 by M Helsdon

[Sir_Godspeed]

5 hours ago, davecake said:

If Western is an abjad, the diacritics are probably a recent (God Leaner era?) innovation, and the Brithini just did without, like ancient Hebrew. Making Ancient Western documents kind of readable, but super annoying, to modern readers, which sounds right.

Personally, though, I’ve always preferred the idea that multiple languages using the one Western script that is mutually readable implies that Western is logographic like Chinese. Another thing in favour of this theory is that logographic scripts are older than alphabetic, and Western is supposed to be very ancient. If it is logographic, the component pictographs used to make compound characters would include (but not be limited to) the Runes. 

Western being logographic would be good, but given that Theyelan runes are already basically logograms, and that the East Isles section on Revealed Mythologies specifically detail the invention of logograms (or at least a myth of it), I'm wondering if there isn't a preponderance of logographic systems already. 

Anyway, perhaps this is better discussed (or spitballed, really) in a dedicated thread.

[Tindalos]

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

From what I can determine, Westerners put lines of text from their holy books on shields, walls, etc. even when the text is not related to a spell.

Wouldn't surprise me if it's still based on the idea of a sorcerous inscription, a copying of a blessing even if there's no power behind it.

Even in places where literacy is low, they may mistake it for just decoration and copy it anyway, similar to how early English coinage bore Arabic legends.

[M Helsdon]

8 minutes ago, Tindalos said:

Wouldn't surprise me if it's still based on the idea of a sorcerous inscription, a copying of a blessing even if there's no power behind it.

Even in places where literacy is low, they may mistake it for just decoration and copy it anyway, similar to how early English coinage bore Arabic legends.

I have an entire large footnote about the use of the Western script...

Whilst this project is intended to be about Western warfare, have found it necessary to dig into its foundations in Western history, religion etc. far more than when writing about central Genertela... As the script is the means of transmitting the language of sorcery, and of creation, even phrases written in it are believed to have power, even if not a component of a spell. And there's the use of the script in numerology, as each symbol doesn't just represent a letter, but a number.

Protective texts in this script are written on walls, on shields, and probably on armor, to reinforce their nature (and as Glorantha is innately magical they probably do have some effect).

Edited April 17, 2020 by M Helsdon

[Joerg]

I wonder - would we be able to discern a syllabary (like Japanese or Mayan scripts) from an alphabetic script like Ogham or Futhark at first glance? (And Futhark does mix logographic use of the runes with the general alphabetic use, at least where it intrudes into some Anglo-Saxon riddle poetry.)

Since Western script was developed in the  Kingdom of Logic, might it contain operators as shorthand for conjunctions, pronouns and similar syntactic or grammatical functions?

[davecake]

Just noticed - the text of the Codex Ivesti is specifically said NOT to be Western script, but ‘a coded script’ (like the Voynich Manuscript that inspired it, though presumably the Codex Ivesti is decipherable). 

[davecake]

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Since Western script was developed in the  Kingdom of Logic, might it contain operators as shorthand for conjunctions, pronouns and similar syntactic or grammatical functions?

I think the runes for sorcerous operations might more or less be examples of such, though there would obviously less specialised ones as well. 

[davecake]

7 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

As the script is the means of transmitting the language of sorcery, and of creation, even phrases written in it are believed to have power, even if not a component of a spell. And there's the use of the script in numerology, as each symbol doesn't just represent a letter, but a number.

I usually think of the Western script playing a similar role in Malkioni sorcery to the Hebrew letters in Kabbalah, including the various transformative tricks played with geomatria/numerology. And like modern syncretic Western esoteric traditions, the God Learners used it a lot as a tool for joining things together into their synthesis. 

[M Helsdon]

[Sir_Godspeed]

Is his torso a bit short?

[M Helsdon]

3 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Is his torso a bit short?

A little, but I decided to reflect the fact that the survivors of the Darkness would have had physical effects of near starvation, so decided to draw a physiology that is a little stunted. He represents one of the Seshnegi 'horali' who fought the Pendali in the early decades of Time, before there were many Men-of-All.

The next sketch will also deviate from normal physiology to a degree - a genuine Brithini holari.

Edited April 18, 2020 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

 Brithini holari - physiology isn't quite human.

Wanted to mix 'ancient' with 'futuristic', so his helmet has a glass/crystal visor, and his crossbow is more advanced than anything you'll find in the Third Age (save for the dwarves).

Edited April 20, 2020 by M Helsdon

[Richard S.]

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

 Brithini holari - physiology isn't quite human.

Wanted to mix 'ancient' with 'futuristic', so his helmet has a glass/crystal visor, and his crossbow is more advanced than anything you'll find in the Third Age (save for the dwarves).

I like how the law rune on his forehead looks like a single eye. Not sure if that was the intent, or what it would represent, but it's a neat effect.

[M Helsdon]

11 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

I like how the law rune on his forehead looks like a single eye. Not sure if that was the intent, or what it would represent, but it's a neat effect.

It was the intent - located just over the sorb...

Brithini holari are equipped with devices to see in the dark, and arcane sight, which permits them to see spell casting and spirits...

The Eye in the Law Rune is a symbol used for the Invisible God, but I thought it would be fun to hint at sorb sight as well.

This fellow has pale red skin and hair; I suspect that his armor and sword are a red chrome color.

Edited April 20, 2020 by M Helsdon

[Runeblogger]

Cool! What is his visor made of?

[Sir_Godspeed]

Nice! 

[JanPospisil]

That's a really cool one! I love anything that reminds me of the Emperor and his monsters from Nausicaa.

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, JanPospisil said:

That's a really cool one! I love anything that reminds me of the Emperor and his monsters from Nausicaa.

Amusing. I haven't read Nausicaa.

 

10 hours ago, Runeblogger said:

Cool! What is his visor made of?

Glass or crystal. It's a magical device.

[M Helsdon]

Frieze of a Seshnelan lion hunt (the inspiration for this should be obvious...)

[Sir_Godspeed]

Ooh, that's super cool! 

Is the background handmade, or is it a prerendered texture? Stipling that by hand looks crazy time consuming.

[M Helsdon]

59 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Is the background handmade, or is it a prerendered texture? Stipling that by hand looks crazy time consuming.

I used the image facilities in Word to texture the background.

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 minute ago, M Helsdon said:

I used the image facilities in Word to texture the background.

Good on you! 😅 Would've been a pain otherwise.

[M Helsdon]

Another First Age sketch. May do more work on the pony.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

Another First Age sketch.

Makes me think of a LotR elf warrior. 🙂