1652 Great Flood

[Steve]

On 11/28/2018 at 7:45 AM, Darius West said:

Actually, there is a big and rather stupid problem with the Troll plan.  Annilla, the Blue Moon is going to smash right through it and shatter their iceberg (if it ever arrives).

Good point. Maybe the Trolls have a Heroquest lined up to sort something out for that?

[jajagappa]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 2:45 AM, Darius West said:

Annilla, the Blue Moon is going to smash right through it and shatter their iceberg (if it ever arrives).

She'll just go Invisible like her assassins and move through it like it wasn't even there. 

[Pentallion]

48 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

She'll just go Invisible like her assassins and move through it like it wasn't even there. 

Then troll sorcerers will form an Invisible Annilla cult.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Blue Moon... blue ice... both centred on the Whirlpool... Maybe Annilla just straight up incorporates the icy mass into itself?

Hell, maybe it's necessary in order to give it a solid, physical body again?

[Pentallion]

What I wanna know is, Annilla formed into the giant ice clot or not, when the thing finally breaks up and goes down Magasta's Pool does it make a noise like a toilet flushing?

Cuz that would be Really Cool.

"...and the dwarves who witnessed the event still swear that they saw their dead god Mostal in a towering ghostly form, driving a plunger deep into Magasta's Pool"

Edited November 30, 2018 by Pentallion

[Ian Cooper]

On 7/24/2018 at 11:22 AM, David Scott said:

I was reminded that I hadn't done the third map! So here is the final flood level with a special note. You'll see i've marked a red circle on the map. This place is important as its the separation pain of the Oslir river watershed and the Creek-stream-river watershed. I've chosen not to have the flood spill over at this point. If you want an Oslir catastrophe as part of this event - go ahead, but it doesnt seem to fit here unless you think otherwise.

Can I interest anyone in a timeshare property in Alone? Not ideal real estate now in the Hidden Valley, sure, but come the Great Flood we will have an extensive range of beach front properties available as 'holiday' lets. An idea location to sit out the Bergocalypse.

[jajagappa]

2 minutes ago, Ian Cooper said:

Can I interest anyone in a timeshare property in Alone?

Jaldon's Rest looks like a nice spot overlooking not one but two beaches!

The Red Goddess only knows what's going to come floating out of Snakepipe Hollow when the waters get into the Caves of Chaos!  Time for some Deep Ones and Cthulhu Rising maybe?

[Pentallion]

On 11/12/2017 at 3:44 AM, MOB said:

Back into Magasta's Pool, eventually... taking as much of the top layers of the lowlands of Genertela with it as it can... 

The whole place will look like the scablands of eastern Washington where I grew up!

[Pentallion]

Looking a little closer, I see Snakepipe Holow totally inundated.  Anyone remember that there's a tunnel in there that goes deep beneath the earth?  Remember where you wind up if you go down it?  I think a lot of water is going to siphon down that drain.

[Darius West]

It should be pointed out that between the underworld and the upper world and what water is in the air as mist, there is a finite amount of water in Glorantha.  As a result, there will be a high water mark, and the rate at which the rivers of the world flood everything will be relatively slow and gradual.  All the non-troll societies will have ample time to react, even if they aren't ready to intercept the iceberg for some inane reason.  

The other thing worth noting is that the effect of having all the water in the upper world will be catastrophic for the underworld far more than it will be for the upper world, despite the flooding.  Does anyone really grasp what the death of the River Styx means?

[Joerg]

8 hours ago, Darius West said:

It should be pointed out that between the underworld and the upper world and what water is in the air as mist, there is a finite amount of water in Glorantha. 

Sramak's River extends well beyond the Luathan isles, effectively unlimited far. Just as size and distance lose their meaning in the outermost world, so does volume.

There is also no telling how big the encapsulated Chaos Rift in the center of Magasta's Pool would be.

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As a result, there will be a high water mark, and the rate at which the rivers of the world flood everything will be relatively slow and gradual.  All the non-troll societies will have ample time to react, even if they aren't ready to intercept the iceberg for some inane reason.  

Nobody has any idea how high the waters will rise, and the uplands that people from the coasts could flee to often aren't exactly fertile or habitable. The event will flood the richest agricultural areas for two agricultural seasons, and leave the soil badly diminished, and the wells and waterways all salted up.

The overall situation will be very similar to being caught in the Real World tidal flats by the returning sea - at first you understimate the speed of the incoming water, then you'll be up to your hips or worse in water, and be battered by currents rushing in to take all the "food" out of the land.

 

Melib might be an exception if they manage to retrieve the Red Sword.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Joerg

[scott-martin]

47 minutes ago, Joerg said:

the Red Sword

Suddenly I'm convinced that the Waters are mostly enthusiastic partners in this project. They might have all kinds of political, economic or eschatological arguments for why they're participating but I think it boils down to Death (Magasta) taking a forced holiday. Water won't "die" while the drain is plugged. It keeps falling as rain and sweeping in from the outer ocean, but that final psychopompous journey back to the Dame Dark is interrupted.

Instead the Water rises and maybe in some places even leaps to reclaim its old favored spots. Awful waterspouts form, bride of the monster god carrying Water straight up to Sky. Gloranthan alchemists see an invitation to a divine wedding appear in their little flask. The rest of us know a grand banquet has been arranged. Blue Streak rolls up the dome, taking her people with her like always. But maybe she doesn't even drop this time but stays up there, a moon again. This time it's Tolat who dies, like Shargash who failed to fight the dragon.

Wachaza and a new Wachaza. Boats and Boat Planets. Unalterable hundred-lettered Styx words. Blue People. Dormal's Last Stop. Good times. If all goes well, Engizi may finally be healed. Of course there will be recalcitrants to deal with along the way but one way or another they'll eventually be convinced to go with the flow.

[soltakss]

18 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Suddenly I'm convinced that the Waters are mostly enthusiastic partners in this project. They might have all kinds of political, economic or eschatological arguments for why they're participating but I think it boils down to Death (Magasta) taking a forced holiday. Water won't "die" while the drain is plugged. It keeps falling as rain and sweeping in from the outer ocean, but that final psychopompous journey back to the Dame Dark is interrupted.

Instead the Water rises and maybe in some places even leaps to reclaim its old favored spots. Awful waterspouts form, bride of the monster god carrying Water straight up to Sky. Gloranthan alchemists see an invitation to a divine wedding appear in their little flask. The rest of us know a grand banquet has been arranged. Blue Streak rolls up the dome, taking her people with her like always. But maybe she doesn't even drop this time but stays up there, a moon again. This time it's Tolat who dies, like Shargash who failed to fight the dragon.

Wachaza and a new Wachaza. Boats and Boat Planets. Unalterable hundred-lettered Styx words. Blue People. Dormal's Last Stop. Good times. If all goes well, Engizi may finally be healed. Of course there will be recalcitrants to deal with along the way but one way or another they'll eventually be convinced to go with the flow.

And they would have succeeded, if it wan't for those pesky PCs.

[Sir_Godspeed]

10 hours ago, soltakss said:

And they would have succeeded, if it wan't for those pesky PCs.

Especially that insufferable Balazaring shaman and his giant, voracious, talking dog-familiar.

[Lord High Munchkin]

I wonder what happens in Pamaltela?

[David Scott]

10 hours ago, Lord High Munchkin said:

I wonder what happens in Pamaltela?

 

[Joerg]

16 hours ago, Lord High Munchkin said:

I wonder what happens in Pamaltela?

Much of Umathela may be saved from the flood by the Mostali project kicking in at this time - possibly going somewhat faster than intended due to a collision between the ice and the northern edge of the cube. Parts of Fonrit might "benefit", too, and possibly parts of Kumanku as well. For the rest of Kumanku it is outrigger time, again. Same for Maslo.

I suspect that Kimos has a good chance at staying above the sea level, with Gorger and Kimotan megasculpturing possibly sharing a rough upward trend to escape that water. If so, the Kimotans might recruit other Thinobutans coming as refugees for helpers in the struggle.

Does Blue Moon worship help against the flood? Mernita's blue moon was shut down only after the founding of the Septopolis. As already mentioned, Tolat did help in Sechkaul, especially Melib, but that requires placement of his Red Sword.

[Sir_Godspeed]

With the Mostali land-raising, will that simply eradicate all surface-land, or will it uplift it? To put it more concretely: will it turn Umathela into a barren wasteland of uniform elevation, or will the forests of the Aldryami and Umathelan Orlanthi survive? If they don't, I suppose the next logical step for them is to flee eastwards into Fonrit proper? Unless they cross into interior Pamaltela. The same applies to the Slorifings, of course.

Sorry, not strictly Iceberg-related, just co-occuring.

[Darius West]

There are a few things to consider about the troll iceberg plot:

(1) The iceberg will not happen "in a vacuum", other cultures will see it occurring, and will react.  Most can bring more firepower to the situation than the trolls can answer with.

(2) The Elder races and their plots will coincide with each other.  Thus the salt water will stop the Elf seed plot.  The Dwarven fleet will stop the iceberg.  And sheer common sense will prove that a capstan can't drag landmasses together, regardless of how big it is and how many dinosaurs are pulling it.  I don't think the Dragonewts are ready to launch the Rockwoods Dragon yet.  They couldn't do it with the whole EWF behind them

(3)  The trolls have been planning this for a while, as they have occupied the highlands, but then, so do the Dwarves and many other cultures.

(4) The sea cultures and their pantheons are a lot less hostile to the Earth pantheon than they are to the trolls.  I don't think they will like or approve of the plan, and that means it will fail, as they won't want to invade the land just because their hand has been forced.  Ultimately this will go badly for the trolls.

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Darius West

[PhilHibbs]

All of the descriptions that I have heard, from Greg and Sandy, go along the lines of "this is going to happen, figure out how to save your community". Raise the land, erect a dome, evacuate to the hero plane, learn to breathe water, whatever. Or, try to stop it.

[Sir_Godspeed]

To me, the various "racial Hero Wars plots" read a lot like what I'd find in a Warhammer Codex or Army Book: they're part story hook, part propaganda to get you hyped for that faction. Realistically, as they clash, there's going to be mixes and alterations of the various plots, depending on the interpretations of the reader and actions of the player. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Sir_Godspeed

[jajagappa]

12 hours ago, Darius West said:

The sea cultures and their pantheons are a lot less hostile to the Earth pantheon than they are to the trolls. 

I don't see this.  The Sea has been busy crawling up and trying to do away with the solid Earth since the Blue Dragon came across the land.  They've already devoured the entire middle of the Earth completely separating Genertela from Pamaltela, Vithela, and Luathela.  I agree that they are hostile to the Glacier, but that's far more Valind and his icy kin than trolls.

[Darius West]

4 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I don't see this.  The Sea has been busy crawling up and trying to do away with the solid Earth since the Blue Dragon came across the land.  They've already devoured the entire middle of the Earth completely separating Genertela from Pamaltela, Vithela, and Luathela.  I agree that they are hostile to the Glacier, but that's far more Valind and his icy kin than trolls.

Inner Knowledge of the Sea Gods:

Earth Goddesses:

These gentle goddesses are bountiful friends of the sea.  Ga, the Earthess is the magical child of Zaramaka. made as a servant and worker for Sramak, the least of the Elder Three.  She provides rich sustenance to him, and to all the Last Growth bodies which require nourishment on the physical plane.

RQ: Gods of Glorantha (p72)

That sounds pretty friendly to me.

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, Darius West said:

Inner Knowledge of the Sea Gods:

Earth Goddesses:

These gentle goddesses are bountiful friends of the sea.  Ga, the Earthess is the magical child of Zaramaka. made as a servant and worker for Sramak, the least of the Elder Three.  She provides rich sustenance to him, and to all the Last Growth bodies which require nourishment on the physical plane.

RQ: Gods of Glorantha (p72)

That sounds pretty friendly to me.

Bab is the food goddess. Of course the seas love their food, and they never quite forgave the earth to keep one of its six sides from their access.

 

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

The Sea has been busy crawling up and trying to do away with the solid Earth since the Blue Dragon came across the land. 

Enabled by Umath pushing the earth cube back down so that the seas could reach and occasionally overcome the edges, according to some depictions of the original world design of Mostal which had the cube half submerged, half elevated.

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They've already devoured the entire middle of the Earth completely separating Genertela from Pamaltela, Vithela, and Luathela. 

None of that was at the agency of the sea gods. It was a combination of Zzabur's Great Blast and the implosion of the Spike which shattered the earth that surrounded the Spike. Sure, the seas were all too happy to have these new surfaces to take nourishment from, which is why they are adamantly against the Mostali Somelz restoration project which is going to close the rift that separates the Slon shard from the Pamaltelan fragment. Unusually, that rift is not vertical in nature but teeters off to the side of the cube, making Slon the least massive of all the surviving fragments of the cube. That lack of marine snow and even residual light makes that rift a lot less hospitable than the other, vertical reefs, but the denizens of the Sea of Worms would appear to have adapted to those conditions, and now are about to die out.

 

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I agree that they are hostile to the Glacier, but that's far more Valind and his icy kin than trolls.

Unwanted kinship with Vadrus is at the source of the modern Triolini merfolk. While there are merfolk that may deserve the appellation of Elder Races, most of the ones encountered at the surface are younger than most of mankind, a product of the later Golden Age when the seas first re-conquered parts of the upper cube side. Valind added more insult by trapping lots of the northern waters in his glacier, denying the seas their energy. I wonder whether the formation of the glacier was tied to Heler losing his ability to return to the seas.

[soltakss]

On 12/13/2018 at 5:52 AM, Darius West said:

Inner Knowledge of the Sea Gods:

Earth Goddesses:

These gentle goddesses are bountiful friends of the sea.  Ga, the Earthess is the magical child of Zaramaka. made as a servant and worker for Sramak, the least of the Elder Three.  She provides rich sustenance to him, and to all the Last Growth bodies which require nourishment on the physical plane.

RQ: Gods of Glorantha (p72)

That sounds pretty friendly to me.

Worcha was created with the sole intent of destroying Ernalda. The Seas have invaded the Land many times, sometimes with catastrophic results.

I think that some Sea Deities are friendly with some Earth Deities and some are hostile, depending on the cults. The Pantheons themselves are probably neutral, due to the differences within.