Is Chaosium going to support BRP anymore?

[lawrence.whitaker]

Yep, I know...

[Aycorn]

To Jason and Pete;

Pardon my ignorance, and this may have been covered elsewhere in the thread, but - would it not be possible to work out a deal with Chaosium where you could publish or self-publish your supplements as BRP supplements - just not under the Chaosium banner?

That way, you wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel, so to speak, system-wise.

[rust]

Its been ten months since I submitted Rome ... they've still not contacted me to clarify whether they want me to strip it down, or even if they actually want it.

This is absolutely ... disappointing, to put it politely. :shocked:

When BRP was published, I intended to convert my science fiction settings

to BRP, and was hoping that the rules would comparatively soon be followed

by a supplement for the science fiction genre.

Meanwhile I have converted my setting and use the (modified) BRP rules, but

I am no longer hoping for any more science fiction material from Chaosium.

The excellent Outpost 19 is all there is, and there are no signs at all that mo-

re will follow within the foreseeable future.

Therefore I have filled most of the science fiction gaps in the BRP rules with

material converted from other roleplaying games (GURPS, Ringworld, Traveller,

etc.) to make my settings playable, and now they are more or less complete -

I do no longer need a science fiction supplement from Chaosium, and I am no

longer sure that I would buy one.

Of course, I do not know whether others see and handle it the same way, but

for me what Chaosium does to support BRP is too little and comes too late.

[Pete Nash]

To Jason and Pete;

Pardon my ignorance, and this may have been covered elsewhere in the thread, but - would it not be possible to work out a deal with Chaosium where you could publish or self-publish your supplements as BRP supplements - just not under the Chaosium banner?

That way, you wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel, so to speak, system-wise.

I do not know the details of Chaosium's current BRP licensing terms. The last I'd heard they were prohibitively expensive for a single, self-publishing author.

Does anyone have specifics?

[Trifletraxor]

Oh God. This is bad news... ;-(

But, the BRP Adventure monograph is supposed to be released in March at least... :confused:

I chose to borrow from AD&D and "disbelieves"! 2009 will surely be the best year for Basic Roleplaying so far!

:beetle:

[bobapple]

I am no longer hoping for any more science fiction material from Chaosium. The excellent Outpost 19 is all there is, and there are no signs at all that more will follow within the foreseeable future.

Be sure to check out [ CTHULHU RISING: CALL OF CTHULHU ROLEPLAYING IN THE 23RD CENTURY ] , lots of great SciFi stuff there. Its easy enough to leave out the mythos related material.

[rust]

Be sure to check out CTHULHU RISING: CALL OF CTHULHU ROLEPLAYING IN THE 23RD CENTURY

Yes, right, I forgot to mention Cthulhu End Time, Cthulhu Rising and Once

Men, all three have lots of very interesting and useful ideas.

[skarl]

Be sure to check out [ CTHULHU RISING: CALL OF CTHULHU ROLEPLAYING IN THE 23RD CENTURY ] , lots of great SciFi stuff there. Its easy enough to leave out the mythos related material.

Thank you for the link, I will certainly look into this. I might even run a CoC game or three with this.

I sort of like Call of Cthulhu as an rpg, but the games usually wind down to the logical conclusion which makes it sound like a regular sort of game: Nyarlathotep wins. He has too many resources and is too powerful and insane not to get the upper hand/tentacle/paw/etc.

[NickMiddleton]

I'm going to ponder on all of this. I talk to Charlie quite regularly, but I need to talk to the Gwenthia Design Mechanism too. I know that everyone in the Design Mechanism is a big BRP fan, and although a consensus had been reached to use the RQ SRD, things have changed, so maybe its high time we thought again. But everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, would hinge on some solid commitments from the Chaosium side.

*sigh* Frankly, I am sceptical at this point and mostly think I'll be building my future plans around supporting BRP as much despite Chaosium as because of them. And I find that very sad.

There's always hope.

I really hope so. And there WILL no doubt be more monographs, and I'm certainly planning more issues of Uncounted Worlds.

Well Loz, you know I'd rewrite all the existing creatures, stats and rules in a flash to get Gwenthia published by Chaosium... but I'm not hopeful they'll be able to truly commit themselves.

Or, bluntly, honour that commitment a few months later...

After much deliberation I'm now looking at withdrawing my submission and self publishing, although I'd much prefer for it to be released by Chaosium. To whit, I've trawled the net for as much royalty-free art as I could find. Unfortunately that'll mean a distinct bias towards neo-classical 18th C b/w illustrations. My biggest frustration is rewriting all the elegant rules I came up with for magic, chariot racing and the monsters/creatures, which were designed specifically for BRP.

I'm no layout editor, and I'd still love to see the little Chaosium logo on it... but I've reached the point where I want to (need to) see two years of research and hard work actually get into print.

Hey Jason, if you're going down the same road perhaps we could collaborate to produce our own line of d% compatible supplements, sharing the same style of book layout and POD distributor? PM me if you are interested!

I'm pretty sure that both Interplanetary and Rome would find buyers here, whether they have the Chaosium logo on or not.

I do not know the details of Chaosium's current BRP licensing terms. The last I'd heard they were prohibitively expensive for a single, self-publishing author.

The sample license says 50 copies up front gratis for print runs less than 500 and I believe they've said that is the category they would consider PoD models in. Plus the right to buy subsequent copies at wholesale rather than retail, but that's a given really - mind the assumed retail mark up is pretty steep.

So in terms of raw cash, assuming one were using lulu and say a 192 page perfect bound book with colour covers and b&w interiors, in US letter format with lulu's higher grade paper stock would cost (pauses to fire up lulu's calculator) £151.00 plus cost of shipping those 50 books from wherever in the US lulu printed them to Chaosium.

Does anyone have specifics?

The above assumes Chaosium would still go with the idea that a genuine Print on Demand model (i.e. people can buy EITHER a PDF or the book PoD) falls in the "Print run of less than 500 units".

Where that figure falls on the scale of expensive or other wise would depend on ones terms of reference. Depending on how things go in the future, it was a possibility I'd not ruled out for some potential projects: albeit I'd not ruled it IN either, and in current circumstances I'm not willing to commit ANY significant amount of money towards a BRP related project.

Gah, this is depressing, I’m just gonna go home, lie down, and listen to country music. The music of pain.

Nick

Edited February 3, 2009 by NickMiddleton
typos

[neorxnawang]

If Jason, Pete & others (sorry Dalmuti I'm not sure who you are IRL) start having a licensee/imprint discussion off line, I'd certainly be interested in participating. My frustration with AtA has quelled my writing enthusiasm, but the sequel is 1/2 done, and I have scads of writing projects that could be rescusitated.

Oh, and free legal services :0

[Jason D]

Hey Jason, if you're going down the same road perhaps we could collaborate to produce our own line of d% compatible supplements, sharing the same style of book layout and POD distributer? PM me if you are interested!

It'll be a little while before I get anything figured out. I am swamped right now and am still (probably foolishly) hoping that Charlie will respond to emails or pay me for the work I did on BRP.

[Jason D]

To Jason and Pete;

Pardon my ignorance, and this may have been covered elsewhere in the thread, but - would it not be possible to work out a deal with Chaosium where you could publish or self-publish your supplements as BRP supplements - just not under the Chaosium banner?

That way, you wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel, so to speak, system-wise.

It's an interesting option, but given the situation I cannot imagine any conceivable way it would work.

[rust]

... am still (probably foolishly) hoping that Charlie will ... pay me for the work I did on BRP.

I very much hope that my imperfect comprehension of English makes me mis-

understand this sentence, because otherwise I would really be shocked. :eek:

If they indeed refused to pay you for your work on BRP, Chaosium has lost a

customer - for good. :mad:

[Aycorn]

Chaosium is notoriously slow in delivering payment. And, of course, in getting things published. When I sent them stuff in the early 80's, it took a year for either one to happen.

I still love their system and their products. I regret that they aren't better businesspeople.

[Sunwolfe]

That just stinks, man...and I mean that stone-cold sucks hard balls I'm feeling totally helpless. So many cool people, manuscripts and ideas here...so much enthusiasm, effort and creativity. Don't they get it?!

It's been awesome to watch/observe and comment on the advent of BRP. I mean a lot of us ain't in the center, we know, but we're feeling lucky nonetheless just to watch you big fish writing, creating and developing kewl stuff for us wee-fries to gobble up. Its really been a slice to have even played a small part [read "observer"] in something like this. It was easy to kinda feel "involved" even though we really aren't, except around our own humble gaming tables. But I was feeling excited that, after so many years, I had got a window seat on the doin' of thing, and finally some real back up, ya know...real stuff comin' out from the Chaosium.

It really blows hard-core that this state of affairs has evolved: Deadworld--Interplanetary--Rome--and not paid yet :mad: WTF? (that is just wrong, Jason). I know it ain't a matter of life and death and we live in seriously scary times, but I feel…well...it's like watching the distant oasis disappear just when I was beginning to think I was actually making distance. :confused: Ya know what I mean?

It's hard not to take it a bit personally...stupid, I know...but nonetheless true. It's like I just got hit with a bait-and-switch; like Chaosium said, "...buy our book, man...and...we'll, ah, support it, yeah, yeah, that's the ticket; we'll support it wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say not more--publish no more." Like I've said before, P.T. Barnum just loved dudes like me. I know that this response maybe unreasonable, maybe unkewl, but I just have a hard time feeling anything else after reading this thread closely and reflecting the company's past MO.

I'm not looking forward to trawling the net again...like back in the day...with Google-searches trying to find anyone who was courageous enough to post some support for RQ [sans Glorantha :-P]. In fact I'm down right pissed off that I've been offered this carrot only to find out that's it plastic, but I will if all this does go belly-up. By Odin's bronzed balls, I thought those days were over :ohwell:

I don't know if I speak for anyone one else, I'm not trying to. I just had to say something because I'm feelin' that's all I can do. This is one bottom feeder, however, that is really and seriously disappointed and frustrated that there seems to be nothing anyone can actually do.

You big fish come up with some idea…let us little guys know. Until then…

…Crap

[rust]

That just stinks, man... ... …Crap

Sunwolfe, you summed up my own current feelings quite well.

I still hope that I am misreading the entire situation, that the clouds will dis-

appear and the sun come out, but after reading the thread again I doubt it.

And, being a "freelancer" myself, I am really very angry about any potential

problems with Jason's payment.

I bought Edition Zero and BRP because of Jason's excellent work on the ru-

les, not because I needed another heap of printed paper. His effort is what

gives any value to this paper, much less so what Chaosium did.

To read that they got the money, and Jason not, I find most annoying.

And the idea that all the interesting material that has been created or still

is worked on (Rome, Interplanetary ...) is disappearing into the fog also is

rather discouraging.

Ah, well, I have BRP, thanks mostly to what Jason did, and can use it as a

base for my settings, but still ...

You wrote it: Crap.

[NickMiddleton]

It's an interesting option, but given the situation I cannot imagine any conceivable way it would work.

Are you aware of Kenzer & Co's Kingdoms of Kalamar for D&D 4e? With no particular license or permisions, simply adhering to copyright and trademark law. Legally it's entirely do able - albeit it's not a route I'm particularly happy with contemplating even in the current circumstances.

Nick

[PK Games]

Im pretty much done with BRP as a whole. I still love me some BRP and CoC is one of my all time faves, but if they wont support the fans, I wont support Chaosium. Truth be told I have plenty enough BRP based/themed rules as it is and can cover all the range of events, ideas and settings with what I have. Its a shame there was never a good sci-fi setting for BRP (Cthulhu Rising is IMHO good, but not great as it is only an extension of CoC and not really its own thing, again IMHO).

BRP Pulp would have been nice, BRP Sci-Fi and so forth.

But we have Elric/Stormbringer, ElfQuest, RuneQuest (old school) and Cthulhu Dark Ages to cover the fantasy/sword and sorcery stuff.

CoC and its variant settings to cover more modern settings.

Super World for Superheroes.

Sci-Fi lies somewhere in that combination.

As Seneschal likes to remind me, there is always GORE and as I like to say MRQ looks better and better day by day to me, as the systems are very similar and the OGL provides more open publication.

I will use Jason's definitive BRP as the core of a BRP game I run, but after Pulp Cthulhu, Chaosium isnt getting another cent out of me.

[RosenMcStern]

People, don't be too harsh with Chaosium. They do all this because they love their jobs. They will sort things out, eventually. And we will see more BRP on the shelves, one way or another.

[rust]

They do all this because they love their jobs.

Sorry, but for a publisher an approach like "We do not publish new material

and do not pay our authors (in time) because we love our jobs" would be al-

most suicidally stupid.

[lawrence.whitaker]

Judging by Jason's qualification about payment, I think Gwenthia will stay where it is, publishing direction-wise.

I'm also still waiting for my monograph payment for Hawkmoon... I wrote it off at least a year ago, but if Chaosium can't even manage to meet a $500 agreement for something I put all the creative, editorial and layout effort into (and they had decent sales from), then I've no confidence in getting a solid position on a formal book for Gwenthia.

Very, very sad.

[RosenMcStern]

Sorry, but for a publisher an approach like "We do not publish new material

and do not pay our authors (in time) because we love our jobs" would be al-

most suicidally stupid.

Have you ever wondered whether they get paid on time for what they do?

[rust]

Have you ever wondered whether they get paid on time for what they do?

And the next time someone sends me a bill for something I asked him to do

for me, I tell him that he will get his money whenever I got mine ?

First, he would never again work for me. Second, in most cases the next per-

son I would hear from would be his lawyer.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

I'm flabbergasted. And here I thought things were changing ... :ohwell:

[Nightshade]

And the next time someone sends me a bill for something I asked him to do

for me, I tell him that he will get his money whenever I got mine ?

First, he would never again work for me. Second, in most cases the next per-

son I would hear from would be his lawyer.

The sad truth is underpayment and late payment is often close to the standard in the games industry. Even with the best of intentions, to describe the cash flow of most game companies as "irregular" and the work-to-staff load as "imbalanced" would be an understatement.

Not that this justifies not paying people, but its the reality, and its something anyone trying to work in this industry except for the very few really big names (and Chaosium hasn't been one of those in a long, long time) should be aware of.