HQG takes the back seat to RQG

[Job]

Just a few years ago, the focus of Chaosium/Moon Design was on HQG, and I heard from the publisher staffs at the time that if you want to play in Glorantha, HQG is the best way to go to emulate Greg’s stories. Now HQG has taken the back seat to RQG and that marketing tagline was changed. All the books that suppose to be for HQG now turned into RQG supplements. Ive heard of Whitewall book, Prax book, Big Rubble book since before the Guide Kickstarter and Gods book immediately after the Guide, if I remember correctly. That was many years ago. 

It’s not so bad because we can use RQG supplements easily with HQG. And from the business perspective, it is a reasonable and wise choice for Chaosium. However, I still feel it’s a pity that HQG seems not to be in the focus anymore for Glorantha gaming. 

[godsmonkey]

I feel like Benjamin Button in that I went from RQII in the 80s and am just now getting into playing HeroQuest.

But really, the smart thing to do is make the New material RQ friendly. 

I'm just glad Glorantha is seeing a new golden age

[Oracle]

And as far as I know @Ian Cooper is still the line editor for HeroQuest as well as very dedicated to that line. He may not have the man power to concur with the RuneQuest products, but did he have before? If you look at how long it took to get the Red Cow books published, you can see, that the manpower available was always small. But what a great product did they publish at the end! So, yes Chaosium is concentrating on RuneQuest (which is a smart move on different levels), but HeroQuest gets still its support (I think at least). And you have to keep in mind, that HeroQuest Glorantha was a child of Moon Design Publications, whereas RuneQuest is one of Chaosium's main products. Yes, same people, but different strategic objectives.

And yes, as long as it is Glorantha, it is fine for me ...

[JonL]

Where I feel the loss most acutely is the Gods book being re-directed. The thing that would have otherwise been most useful to me has its utility (to me) most degraded, with so much word count devoted to crunch like associated cult spell lists & skill training opportunities rather than setting info, Runic associations that aren't on the RQG character sheet replaced and so on. 

With @jajagappa writing the Nochet book, and with the significant changes to the setting there between the game-lines time periods, I have some hope it will stay HQG. (Fingers crossed.)

[Job]

37 minutes ago, JonL said:

Where I feel the loss most acutely is the Gods book being re-directed. The thing that would have otherwise been most useful to me has its utility (to me) most degraded, with so much word count devoted to crunch like associated cult spell lists & skill training opportunities rather than setting info, Runic associations that aren't on the RQG character sheet replaced and so on. 

With @jajagappa writing the Nochet book, and with the significant changes to the setting there between the game-lines time periods, I have some hope it will stay HQG. (Fingers crossed.)

I hope they will provide HQG runes as well as RQG runes for each deity in the Gods book. I'm looking forward to Dragonrise add-on to Eleven Lights campaign. I am also hope for Sartar-Rising-era Nochet and Whitewall scenario books. At least these books will link up the Sartar Rising era to the RQG time period nicely.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Job

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, JonL said:

With @jajagappa writing the Nochet book, and with the significant changes to the setting there between the game-lines time periods, I have some hope it will stay HQG.

While much of the setting has been elaborated, I believe the focus for getting this material out will be in association with RQG scenarios. 

1 hour ago, Job said:

hope they will provide HQG runes as well as RQG runes for each deity in the Gods book.

I believe they will be RQG-based. However, I don't see any barriers to use in HQG. And there is plenty of material within to utilize for any HQG game. (Even information such as Associated Cults is useful/usable whether from mapping shrines in a given temple to possible Feats/abilities to incorporate in a hero's arsenal of magic.)

 

[Job]

3 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

While much of the setting has been elaborated, I believe the focus for getting this material out will be in association with RQG scenarios. 

I believe they will be RQG-based. However, I don't see any barriers to use in HQG. And there is plenty of material within to utilize for any HQG game. (Even information such as Associated Cults is useful/usable whether from mapping shrines in a given temple to possible Feats/abilities to incorporate in a hero's arsenal of magic.)

 

There won't be any barrier, just that it will only utilize the runes existing on RQG character sheet which is less than HQG. I just hope they can give both version, it would just be 2-3 more characters for each god.

[jajagappa]

1 minute ago, Job said:

I just hope they can give both version, it would just be 2-3 more characters for each god.

Except confusing for the RQG player as there are Runes that aren't used there (e.g. Issaries rune).

[Job]

4 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Except confusing for the RQG player as there are Runes that aren't used there (e.g. Issaries rune).

In that cast, a single-sheet free pdf or an appendix summarize HQG runic associations would be nice.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Job

[Corvantir]

I don't know if it is still accurate but it seems to me that Conversion Guides, like the RQ Classic to RQG one, were considered at a time.

That would be great and enough for me.

[Arkat]

2 hours ago, JonL said:

Where I feel the loss most acutely is the Gods book being re-directed. The thing that would have otherwise been most useful to me has its utility (to me) most degraded, with so much word count devoted to crunch like associated cult spell lists & skill training opportunities rather than setting info, Runic associations that aren't on the RQG character sheet replaced and so on.

Yeah, this (and the time period change) is what makes me sad about every single Glorantha book becoming a Runequest book*. I get that RQ sells much better and it makes sense from a publisher's standpoint, but I don't like and am never going to play Runequest, so every big stat block and spell description takes the place of something that could have been more interesting to me. It wouldn't be as bad if the crunch was only in addition to all the fluff, rather than in place of it, but I really doubt that's the case. (e.g. Jeff recently stated that the Gods book will have the definitive Eurmal cult write-up at such-and-such a word count... but if I recall correctly, the word count he cited was something like 2000 fewer words than the HQG write-up.)

*Except maybe a third Red Cow? I wouldn't be surprised if that was the last-ever Gloranthan HQ release...

Edited April 19, 2019 by Arkat

[JonL]

36 minutes ago, Arkat said:

*Except maybe a third Red Cow? I wouldn't be surprised if that was the last-ever Gloranthan HQ release...

There's the Fonrit HQ book in the works as well. If it sells well, we might see more HQ books exploring corners of the Lozenge at some remove from the Hero Wars action in and around Dragon Pass.

[JonL]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

I believe they will be RQG-based. However, I don't see any barriers to use in HQG. And there is plenty of material within to utilize for any HQG game. (Even information such as Associated Cults is useful/usable whether from mapping shrines in a given temple to possible Feats/abilities to incorporate in a hero's arsenal of magic.)

If you still have HQG style magic descriptions from a previous draft, please consider releasing them in some form once the book drops, especially for gods we haven't seen before. 

[Arkat]

3 minutes ago, JonL said:

There's the Fonrit HQ book in the works as well. If it sells well, we might see more HQ books exploring corners of the Lozenge at some remove from the Hero Wars action in and around Dragon Pass.

I had actually forgotten about that. Has it been recently re-confirmed that the Fonrit book is going to stay HQ? I fear it may meet the same fate as the Nochet/Prax/Big Rubble/troll books and quietly be shifted over to a Runequest supplement, especially since non-Dragon Pass-adjacent supplements are apparently in the planning stages for Runequest (per chatter in the unofficial Chaosium Discord and, I think, some videos of convention talks).

[JonL]

1 minute ago, Arkat said:

I had actually forgotten about that. Has it been recently re-confirmed that the Fonrit book is going to stay HQ? I fear it may meet the same fate as the Nochet/Prax/Big Rubble/troll books and quietly be shifted over to a Runequest supplement, especially since non-Dragon Pass-adjacent supplements are apparently in the planning stages for Runequest (per chatter in the unofficial Chaosium Discord and, I think, some videos of convention talks).

I was under the impression that @Ian Cooper is writing it, but it's been a while since it was discussed around here.

[Runeblogger]

I also think that every RQG supplement and scenario should be followed by a PDF indicating how to use it with HQG.

[soltakss]

18 hours ago, JonL said:

Where I feel the loss most acutely is the Gods book being re-directed. The thing that would have otherwise been most useful to me has its utility (to me) most degraded, with so much word count devoted to crunch like associated cult spell lists & skill training opportunities rather than setting info, Runic associations that aren't on the RQG character sheet replaced and so on. 

The beauty of HeroQuest is that is can use the RQG Gods and Goddesses book as it is quite easily. Any of the cult descriptions and mythology can be used as fluff. Spells can be used as Breakouts to the Deity and Feats can be just the powerful spells or something from HeroQuesting stuff.

So,, for Orlanth, from the RQG Rulebook, we have the following Runespells:

Orlanth Adventurous: Dark Walk, Earth Shield, Flight, Leap, Lightning, Mist Cloud, Shield, Wind Words
Orlanth Thunderous: Cloud Call, Cloud Clear, Dismiss Air Elemental (any size), Summon Air Elemental (any size), Thunderbolt
Orlanth Rex: Command Priests, Command Worshipers, Detect Honor
Vinga: Dark Walk, Earth Shield, Fearless, Flight, Leap, Lightning, Mist Cloud, Shield, Wind Words

Associate Cults provide the following spells to various Aspects of Orlanth:
All: Analyze Magic, Charisma, Command Sheep, Heal Body, Lock, Tame Bull
Adventurous/Vinga: Face Chaos, Identify Scent, Restore Health, Snow, Teleportation
Thunderous: Bear’s Strength, Guided Teleportation, Restore Health

Storm Voices: Bless Thunderstone, Rain 
Wind Lords: Bless Woad.

So, you can just have these as default abilities of the cult, so someone with Orlanth Adventurous 19 can cast any of those spells at 19, or you could have them as specific Breakouts, indicating a speciality with the spells, or knowledge of the spell.

[JonL]

On 4/20/2019 at 5:26 AM, soltakss said:

The beauty of HeroQuest is that is can use the RQG Gods and Goddesses book as it is quite easily. Any of the cult descriptions and mythology can be used as fluff. Spells can be used as Breakouts to the Deity and Feats can be just the powerful spells or something from HeroQuesting stuff.

So,, for Orlanth, from the RQG Rulebook, we have the following Runespells:

<spell examples snipped>

So, you can just have these as default abilities of the cult, so someone with Orlanth Adventurous 19 can cast any of those spells at 19, or you could have them as specific Breakouts, indicating a speciality with the spells, or knowledge of the spell.

That sort of approach can have some value, but the whole conceptual model for magic between the systems is different. A GM with a solid grasp on the the lore and how the two games take different approaches to things can indeed adapt things without too much difficulty, but even in such an ideal case - it's still more of a "have to" than a "get to." I can adapt material, but it I'm paying for something I'd rather it be something that is ready for my use case rather than something that requires me to do the work.

As it is, I'll sadly continue to get more use out of things like  The Brown Book of Zzabur than I will out of Gods of Glorantha (if I even pick it up).

Edited April 22, 2019 by JonL

[borbetomagnus]

On 4/19/2019 at 5:49 AM, Oracle said:

And yes, as long as it is Glorantha, it is fine for me ...

Praise Sartar! 😊

[The God Learner]

On 4/22/2019 at 5:12 PM, JonL said:

As it is, I'll sadly continue to get more use out of things like  The Brown Book of Zzabur

That's a quite good blog, by the way. Thanks for pointing it out.

[BigJackBrass]

On 4/19/2019 at 9:45 PM, Runeblogger said:

I also think that every RQG supplement and scenario should be followed by a PDF indicating how to use it with HQG.

Ideally for me it would be the other way around; I'm not likely to rush to buy something full of statblocks. HQ is the game which finally got me interested in Glorantha, thirty-odd years after I first played RuneQuest, and at this point in my life I'm not likely to start buying yet another game and starting over.

But of course RuneQuest is the bigger game and the shift was inevitable. Indeed, from a business point of view it would be strange if they hadn't done it. For me personally it's a pity and makes the products far less appealing, but the company isn't run for me.

 

[Quackerjack]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 5:13 PM, The God Learner said:

That's a quite good blog, by the way. Thanks for pointing it out.

Who is this mysterious Zzabur of which you speak?

[BruceMri]

12 hours ago, Quackerjack said:

Who is this mysterious Zzabur of which you speak?

A small indie magician some of us are really into. You probably haven't heard of him, he's pretty obscure. 

(The alternative answer on a blog I read where people go to trolling each other with quotes from and about Slavoj Zizek would be "a Slovenian philosopher", which, really, would be just the shakeup the stodgy peoples of Genertela need.)

 

[JonL]

10 hours ago, BruceMri said:

A small indie magician some of us are really into. You probably haven't heard of him, he's pretty obscure. 

I really dug his early stuff, but I feel like he's gotten way too self-referential, and has been kind of coasting for ages.

[Rick Meints]

On 4/18/2019 at 7:20 PM, Job said:

Just a few years ago, the focus of Chaosium/Moon Design was on HQG, and I heard from the publisher staffs at the time that if you want to play in Glorantha, HQG is the best way to go to emulate Greg’s stories. Now HQG has taken the back seat to RQG and that marketing tagline was changed. All the books that suppose to be for HQG now turned into RQG supplements. Ive heard of Whitewall book, Prax book, Big Rubble book since before the Guide Kickstarter and Gods book immediately after the Guide, if I remember correctly. That was many years ago. 

It’s not so bad because we can use RQG supplements easily with HQG. And from the business perspective, it is a reasonable and wise choice for Chaosium. However, I still feel it’s a pity that HQG seems not to be in the focus anymore for Glorantha gaming. 

A few years ago we focused on HQ because we did not have the license to produce RQ material. We still like HQ. Whether you love it or hate it, HQ has always struggled to have profitable sales numbers. Most of the wonderful HQ books in the works were largely being done by devoted fans writing them for the love of the game. They were/are writing them in their spare time, which is often scarce. RQ books outsell HQ books at least 4-1. While we do not have exact numbers, we know a large portion of the audience for HQ books bought them because they wanted Gloranthan material, even if HQ was not their system of choice. Publishing the same supplement for HQ and also for RQ isn't economically viable. Let's say we sold 1000 copies of the Sartar Companion, which was only available as an HQ book. If we sold it as an RQ book we would have certainly sold much more of it. If we had sold it as an RQ book, and as an HQ book too, the HQ version would have maybe sold 500 copies. The best we can do economically is to publish RQ books (mostly) and provide HQ stats for them in a separate document. That said, if someone only wants to write an awesome HQG book for us, we won't automatically say no to them.