Cults that can be merged to one adventurer

[Shiningbrow]

12 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Lay membership says that you at least periodically, if not regularly, attend and participate in the ceremonies of that deity.  You're not initiated, so you do not witness the inner mysteries, but you've contributed your prayers, offerings, and MP's for the benefit of that deity.

Yes, so actively and intentionally... And not many Chalana Arroy will go to a Humakt service (although some will get that Death is a necessary part of life), nor Lhankor Mhy Initiates go to an Eurmal rite (granted, not many would, even if they were publicly announced).

But I do get @Bill the barbarian's point - and for the most part I agree... However it does beg the question... What's the significance of Lay Membership if the individual never actively does anything about it? Never goes to the rites, ignores the Holy days, never pays even a copper... And walks past the statue of the god with nary a sideways glance...

[Lordabdul]

On 5/15/2020 at 6:22 PM, Arkat said:

So, even if all pre-current-edition-of-RuneQuest material is thrown out as no longer canon, there are NPCs in Pegasus Plateau, Smoking Ruin, and the GM Screen Pack who are...

[...snip...]

... And others, including elves and trolls who are initiates of Aldrya/KL as well as other deities.

It does not seem particularly rare.

Note that it seems to me a lot of those NPCs with multiple cults are people in positions of power... just going down half of your list, I think that I vaguely recognize captains, nobles (or former nobles), and most of the NPCs that are in the inner ring of Clearwine.

So it's not particularly rare, no, but it's heavily biased towards the upper class IMHO. The equivalent with the real-world is pretty easy in my head: the vast majority of people have one profession. Some have multiple profession out of necessity or desire, but that's a minority overall. However when you look at upper classes, it's easy to find politicians who hold multiple positions (in countries that allow that), business people who seat at multiple companies' boards or invest in multiple ventures, and so on.

14 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Lay membership says that you at least periodically, if not regularly, attend and participate in the ceremonies of that deity.  You're not initiated, so you do not witness the inner mysteries, but you've contributed your prayers, offerings, and MP's for the benefit of that deity.

IMHO lay membership includes a minimum form of worship, yeah. I imagine some pantheon-wide rites include short tidbits of worship to most deities in that pantheon, and so it doesn't take much extra work to keep your lay-member qualification. A crude and approximate example might be the "associated cults" of Mary (mother of Jesus) and of the various common Christian Saints... doing an extra prayer (with some accompanying MP/POW/etc sacrifice) to one of these figures in particular would qualify has being a "lay member" of Mary or some Saint, and really the main Christian rites already include something close to that anyway (various Saints get a bit of spotlight at specific times of the year). In a truly polytheist tradition, I imagine the pantheon rites give more attention to a handful of secondary figures in a similar way on a more regular basis.

As for the original topic about PCs belonging to multiple cults, I basically agree with a bit of everything that has been said:

• Anything is always OK in my book as long as the players can justify it in-world. Just because something is super rare (or even unique!) doesn't mean it can't happen to a player character. But if it's rare/unique, it will be played as such, with appropriate NPC reactions and such. The player needs to know what to expect there.
• It's possible that, in the name of MGF, the player and GM actually agree to make their Glorantha vary a bit to allow for something super rare/impossible to be merely, say, uncommon. Then the fun begins, as the group figures out the worldbuilding consequences... (at least that's my idea of fun).
• Careful with players who just want to double/triple dip. Maybe it's OK for your group, maybe not.
• When in doubt, make the temple(s) give "enough" (a lot?) chores and missions to the character! That's what temples are for, and that's what sets apart Gloranthan cults from most other (mostly superficial) descriptions of religions in other RPG settings!

Edited May 17, 2020 by lordabdul

[Joerg]

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Does not putting a coin in the plate at a church create a different experience from doing so?  I'd suggest no. 

Expending the magic - your life force - should be something different from just paying up a coin to join in the sacrificial feast.

Pouring out your magic should help shape your perception, synchronize your senses with Godtime.

There will be powerful times and locations that may draw Godtime closer to the world of the Mortals, but even then, the act of attuning yourself by expending some magic should give you an advantage. After all, your contribution helps carrying over the Godtime into the ritual.

 

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

In either case you're there, you experience something of the ritual (and have some experience of the spirit of reprisal etc. as they pass among the congregation), and hear/understand the stories, but don't get the deeper view.  Perhaps, if you want, making the magical connection suggests to you that there is more, if you'd only initiate...

The connection made by a lay member is fleeting, but it is the first step of entering into the area of initiate participation.

 

And then there are initiates to associate cults, cults that share secrets. Your associate cult secrets may give you a better understanding of the cult secrets you are contributing to.

 

 

[Stephen L]

2 hours ago, lordabdul said:

a lot of those NPCs with multiple cults are people in positions of power

I'm not so sure it's just people in positions of power...

A character in my campaign rolled up someone who was a natural Yinkin worshipper.  Looking at the rules, it wasn’t clear whether she’d be a Yinkin worshipper, or whether she was an Orlanth worshiper with a particular devotion to Yinkin, the line seemed very grey.

We left it intentionally grey.  At the moment they are Yinkin, they worship at Yinkin shrines at Orlanth temples.  As time goes on, and their character develops, I can see she’d gradually become more Orlanth, and it would be natural her to sacrifice the odd Pow for rune points for Orlanth.

I can see MGF for my campaign is for worship as an initiate is a devotion to a god in a pantheon, but it’s fairly flexible to spread that worship across a number of (compatible) gods in that pantheon.  It means that someone whose character is strongly drawn to “one deity” doesn’t worry that they get rubbish runespells because they’ll be able to easily develop a devotion to another aspect/God of that pantheon when they’re outgrowing pure Yinkin…

However, my players are the antithesis of mini-maxing, they don’t care about (or even, I suspect, understand) the rules.  And I can see such an approach could be open to abuse if they were…

I'll end with p228 of the core rules, when Vasana persuades the herd priestess to allow her to join the Eritha rites at the Paps...

Seemingly satisfied, Varaneena allowed me to
join with the other lay members gathering outside
the sacred caves.
The sacred caves were forbidden to all not
initiated into the Earth’s mysteries and all
guarded by copper-clad Axe Maidens, sworn to
kill any trespassers. We all stayed a respectful
distance away.
All except my sister, that is. Yanioth strode to the
sacred caves like a goddess. The Herd Priestesses
shouted that this place is forbidden to outsiders,
but as proud as any queen my sister said, “I am no
outsider. You may serve the Herd Mother, but she
is the daughter of the Earth Mother. And I am privy
to Her secrets.”
And with that, she marched past the Axe
Maidens into the Inner Womb of the goddess.

[Lordabdul]

6 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

I'm not so sure it's just people in positions of power...

I didn't say it was just people in power. I said that a lot of the NPCs with multiple cults in published RQG books (as listed earlier by Arkat) are in positions of power. So that still leaves it open for all kinds of other situations in my Glorantha... and there might be a few NPCs in that list that don't fit that category, I haven't checked closely nor exhaustively.

8 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

I'll end with p228 of the core rules, when Vasana persuades the herd priestess to allow her to join the Eritha rites at the Paps...

I loved how Yanioth sounds like a bad-ass in that part of the story but to me that's a whole different (and narrative-driven) situation. Participating in secret rites is not accessible to lay-members, so Yanioth may or may not be a lay-member of Eirithia. She forces her way into the rites on the same level as an initiate of the cult, while obviously not being an initiate of that cult (otherwise she wouldn't have to intimidate/leadership her way into it). So if anything, that mostly shows how, when you're part of a major cult and you roll well enough, you can get into other people's temples and get some Rune points/POW/free meal/hot sex/whatever. This might however be a good story starting point for a character initiating into a second cult -- much more dramatic than picking something from the rulebook between adventures!

[Austin]

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

What's the significance of Lay Membership if the individual never actively does anything about it? Never goes to the rites, ignores the Holy days, never pays even a copper... And walks past the statue of the god with nary a sideways glance..

For me, I think it's important to keep in mind how much Gloranthan social life seems dominated by religious activity. But a lot of that activity might not be the sorts of things which we terrestrials automatically think of as "sacred."

I like trying to draw a comparison to Greek religion here. Can't remember particular sources, so I'm paraphrasing (but I think some of this is out of Hesiod?). There's a story about how humans begin the first sacrifices to the gods, which is very much in the same sort of tradition as the Coyote/Loki/Trickster stories. Humanity doesn't know what parts of sacrifice belong to the gods, and what parts humans get to keep. So Prometheus sacrifices a cow, and lays it out in two piles: the bones and entrails, covered in fat, and the meat. He then asks Zeus which the gods prefer, and Zeus chooses the fatty, enticing bones--which of course spawns "ha ha, I told you" and so on out of Prometheus. And the teller closes with something like "but of course Great and Powerful Zeus chose correctly because Zeus doesn't make mistakes, and he wanted humanity to have the meat."

So, occasions for sacrifice became occasions to party, to eat well and drink well. Plus, it's a lot easier to kill your favorite friendly cow for food when god's the one telling you to do it.

This ties into my Glorantha in that most community gatherings have a significant religious element. If you work the Zola Fel, or the Creek-Stream River, or the Whitefall River, you're a lay member of that river's cult because you're in (to a small degree) a sacred relationship with the god. Nearly everyone's a lay member of Orlanth and Ernalda, because everyone helps thresh grain at harvest time, and everyone gets together for a pint of beer after (or a mug of clearwine if you're wealthy).

If a Gloranthan goes out hunting, they say a prayer to Yinkin or Odayla to strike well, and if they kill a cow, they offer thanks to Uralda/Eiritha while butchering because they believe its spirit goes back to the Mother because it really does, but only if they say the right words while doing the Peaceful Cut.

And so on.

I don't think lay membership necessarily needs to be about "religion." I think it's more about the small ways in which the Gloranthan honors one, or many, deities.

[jajagappa]

8 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

What's the significance of Lay Membership if the individual never actively does anything about it? Never goes to the rites, ignores the Holy days, never pays even a copper... And walks past the statue of the god with nary a sideways glance...

I don't think there is in that case, and I think the priests will be fully aware of that in any community. Whether they agree to provide training or spells to such folk (or charge exorbitantly) is how they would respond.

[PhilHibbs]

15 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Does not putting a coin in the plate at a church create a different experience from doing so?  I'd suggest no.

I'd suggest yes. Or, to put it another way, the act of not putting a coin in the collection implies a different experience.

9 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

... And not many Chalana Arroy will go to a Humakt service (although some will get that Death is a necessary part of life), nor Lhankor Mhy Initiates go to an Eurmal rite (granted, not many would, even if they were publicly announced).

I'd think that for Chalana Arroy initiates, being a lay member of Humakt would be rather unusual.

Edited May 17, 2020 by PhilHibbs

[Bill the barbarian]

6 hours ago, Crel said:

I don't think lay membership necessarily needs to be about "religion." I think it's more about the small ways in which the Gloranthan honors one, or many, deities.

Yep!

[GAZZA]

20 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Note that it seems to me a lot of those NPCs with multiple cults are people in positions of power... just going down half of your list, I think that I vaguely recognize captains, nobles (or former nobles), and most of the NPCs that are in the inner ring of Clearwine.

Well, PCs are by definition in positions of power - they are the only individuals in the entire game with individual agency. And I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants their PCs to (eventually) be the people in positions of power, either supplanting those currently there or creating new positions. NPCs are not who the game is about, after all.

More generally I can only repeat what I said before - joining multiple cults is, in many ways, a sub optimal choice from a min-maxing point of view. Certainly you hit a massive diminishing returns there after even the first cult, let alone the second (to say nothing of the fact that RAW it's not possible to become a Rune Priest or Rune Lord if you're already an initiate of 3+ cults).

I sincerely hope the Gods book has some rules for leaving a cult ("benignly", that is - obviously you can get yourself excommunicated, but it shouldn't be harshly punished to move from, say, Yinkin to Orlanth, or Seven Mothers to Yanafil Tarnils, etc.). RQG mentions spirits of reprisal but none of the short form writeups have any details for those (I of course can use older material, but that's not ideal), and it also hand waves mentions you can avoid them if you "transfer" to an associated cult (without actually mentioning how one goes about doing that).

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, GAZZA said:

Well, PCs are by definition in positions of power

You know what I meant. And, in that definition, no they're not. It's common to run games where the PCs are children, beggars, pariahs, or recent exiles into unknown lands, for example. But yes, in more "standard" games, it's very common for the PCs to become clan thanes or otherwise attain position of power. Heck, Apple Lane is a common first adventure to play, and gives the players such an opportunity. I never said it wasn't accessible to PCs -- I believe I said the contrary very explicitly. My point was just an observation of the published NPCs, and a suggested rule of thumb for who may commonly have dual cult memberships for worldbuilding purposes.

1 hour ago, GAZZA said:

it shouldn't be harshly punished to move from, say, Yinkin to Orlanth, or Seven Mothers to Yanafil Tarnils, etc.

Good news: as per RAW, you can do that. The rules in "Leaving the Cult" state, about the spirits of reprisal: "These spirits do not come into action when initiates transfer to an associate cult". And of course, Yinkin and Orlanth are associated to each other.

Edited May 18, 2020 by lordabdul

[GAZZA]

2 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Good news: as per RAW, you can do that. The rules in "Leaving the Cult" state, about the spirits of reprisal: "These spirits do not come into action when initiates transfer to an associate cult". And of course, Yinkin and Orlanth are associated to each other.

Except that "transfer to another cult" is never defined. Perhaps you consider that this is identical to the requirements to simply join the associated cult directly, but that isn't necessarily true. For example, children of Orlanth initiates get into Orlanth without having to pass any test; it may well be true that this is the case for "transfers" as well, or it may be that you need a harder test as you also have to convince your existing priest that you should be allowed to leave - the point is, it's not very clear. It's not as if RQG started this problem in any way - I literally have better mechanical support for getting illuminated in RQ3 than I have for transferring to an associated cult - but hopefully RQG can address this with something more than a throwaway line. I'm not saying that the rules on leaving cults need to be as extensive as the rules on joining them, but they should be more than just an off hand reference to undefined spirits of reprisal and an undefined "transfer" mechanism.

[Glorion]

On 5/14/2020 at 5:25 AM, jajagappa said:

 

Orlanthi can be Lay Members of Humakt.  Humakt generally requires his initiates to sever their prior relationships.

 

In my campaign, we have a Humakt initiate who, for very good reasons, has been offered initiate status in Orlanth, jumping right over lay status. When initiated to Humakt, she severed her previous cult relationship, which was, of all things, Chalana Arroy (a sad story about that.) Can she accept? And is that how Londra of Londros managed to be in both cults?

-jh

[g33k]

2 hours ago, GAZZA said:

Except that "transfer to another cult" is never defined. Perhaps you consider that this is identical to the requirements to simply join the associated cult directly, but that isn't necessarily true. For example, children of Orlanth initiates get into Orlanth without having to pass any test; it may well be true that this is the case for "transfers" as well, or it may be that you need a harder test as you also have to convince your existing priest that you should be allowed to leave - the point is, it's not very clear. It's not as if RQG started this problem in any way - I literally have better mechanical support for getting illuminated in RQ3 than I have for transferring to an associated cult - but hopefully RQG can address this with something more than a throwaway line. I'm not saying that the rules on leaving cults need to be as extensive as the rules on joining them, but they should be more than just an off hand reference to undefined spirits of reprisal and an undefined "transfer" mechanism.

I'm gonna just assert that transferring to an "associate cult" is easy.  You are free to make it harder or more complicated, if you want (YGMV), but...

The RAW explicitly address the topic.  They say that the  disincentive (Spirits of Reprisal) do not apply.

I conclude that it's relatively easy.  The difficulties are Your Glorantha Varying.

(Now I need to consider whether I agree with the RAW, or whether My Glorantha Varies, too) .

Also, leaving one cult for another is a different thing from serving actively in both...

[GAZZA]

1 minute ago, g33k said:

I'm gonna just assert that transferring to an "associate cult" is easy.  You are free to make it harder or more complicated, if you want (YGMV), but...

The RAW explicitly address the topic.  They say that the  disincentive (Spirits of Reprisal) do not apply.

We know:

If you leave a cult, some undefined concept called "spirits of reprisal" will bash you.

We also know:

EXCEPTION: If you transfer to an associated cult, then the spirits of reprisal won't bother you.

It is exceptionally strange to me to hear people say that because the exception applies, the rule needs no further definition. I do not believe one can reasonably discuss exceptions to a non-existent rule.

[Lordabdul]

41 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

It is exceptionally strange to me to hear people say that because the exception applies, the rule needs no further definition. I do not believe one can reasonably discuss exceptions to a non-existent rule.

Can you list the specific situations in which you are unsure how to apply the rules?  (that rule isn't non-existent, and the concept isn't undefined)

46 minutes ago, g33k said:

I conclude that it's relatively easy.  The difficulties are Your Glorantha Varying.

(Now I need to consider whether I agree with the RAW, or whether My Glorantha Varies, too) .

I wouldn't conclude that it's "relatively easy" (well, depending on what it's relative to ). Just because there are no spirits of reprisal after you doesn't mean it's easy: depending on what cult you're transferring to/from, you may have to "prove yourself" and otherwise jump through a bunch of hoops to be accepted as an initiate... going to/from Humakti might have more red tape for instance... but that's really up to your group. Some groups might make it a whole adventure, while other groups might only do a 5min narration followed by some quick edits on the character sheet.

Quote

Also, leaving one cult for another is a different thing from serving actively in both...

Yeah we're diverging a bit from the topic here so I'll try to keep the tangent to a minimum.

Edited May 18, 2020 by lordabdul

[g33k]

It's also worth considering not simply the Gods/Cults (which may have a default disposition), but also the specific Temples... and their priest(esse)s.

Going from B.Gor to M.Gor (or vice versa), or adding either one to the other for dual-membership, could be made relatively easy, or relatively hard, depending on the Chief Priestesses (and their relationship) at the two specific temples where the postulant is making their pitch... are they friends, personally?  Rivals?  Enemies since childhood?  Or...?

Edited May 18, 2020 by g33k

[soltakss]

4 hours ago, GAZZA said:

Except that "transfer to another cult" is never defined. Perhaps you consider that this is identical to the requirements to simply join the associated cult directly, but that isn't necessarily true. For example, children of Orlanth initiates get into Orlanth without having to pass any test; it may well be true that this is the case for "transfers" as well, or it may be that you need a harder test as you also have to convince your existing priest that you should be allowed to leave - the point is, it's not very clear. It's not as if RQG started this problem in any way - I literally have better mechanical support for getting illuminated in RQ3 than I have for transferring to an associated cult - but hopefully RQG can address this with something more than a throwaway line. I'm not saying that the rules on leaving cults need to be as extensive as the rules on joining them, but they should be more than just an off hand reference to undefined spirits of reprisal and an undefined "transfer" mechanism.

Personally, I handle this through Roleplaying. If the PC wants to leave to join another cult then we play it out, with the conversations with the High Priest of the two Temples having a conversation about it. It probably involves a Passion or Communication roll of some kind, perhaps Charm, to see if the PC is convincing. It might be worth considering something like the Test for Acceptance, to see if the PC is OK to join the new cult. even if the PC fails, the High Priests might want to assign them a mission that shows their sincerity.

Personally, I don't need hard and fast rules for this, but I have been GMing RQ and Glorantha for a long time, so I am used to doing things like this without rules.

[Akhôrahil]

31 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Personally, I handle this through Roleplaying. If the PC wants to leave to join another cult then we play it out, with the conversations with the High Priest of the two Temples having a conversation about it. It probably involves a Passion or Communication roll of some kind, perhaps Charm, to see if the PC is convincing. It might be worth considering something like the Test for Acceptance, to see if the PC is OK to join the new cult. even if the PC fails, the High Priests might want to assign them a mission that shows their sincerity.

Personally, I don't need hard and fast rules for this, but I have been GMing RQ and Glorantha for a long time, so I am used to doing things like this without rules.

It also makes sense to consider whether this is a "natural" transfer, which should be a lot more acceptable. An older woman moving from Ernalda to Asrelia is business a usual (I would even support being allowed to bring Rune Points along in this case). Transfer to Humakt or Chalana Arroy due to re-life sickness, this is surely known and accepted as a natural thing that the priesthood don't get to stand in the way of.

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

Personally, I handle this through Roleplaying. If the PC wants to leave to join another cult then we play it out, with the conversations with the High Priest of the two Temples having a conversation about it. It probably involves a Passion or Communication roll of some kind, perhaps Charm, to see if the PC is convincing. It might be worth considering something like the Test for Acceptance, to see if the PC is OK to join the new cult. even if the PC fails, the High Priests might want to assign them a mission that shows their sincerity.

Personally, I don't need hard and fast rules for this, but I have been GMing RQ and Glorantha for a long time, so I am used to doing things like this without rules.

I think it is the best way.

I think it would be a bad idea to put hard rules for this. It depends on the people playing and gming.

Just my personal view is the play would be better if it is not only roll dice to cut an head but also imagine how npc can react /accept / change what players want for their character. Here the scenario is built by the players and the gm, it cannot be written officialy

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by French Desperate WindChild

[g33k]

10 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

We know:

If you leave a cult, some undefined concept called "spirits of reprisal" will bash you.

We also know:

EXCEPTION: If you transfer to an associated cult, then the spirits of reprisal won't bother you.

It is exceptionally strange to me to hear people say that because the exception applies, the rule needs no further definition. I do not believe one can reasonably discuss exceptions to a non-existent rule.

I consider the Lay/Initiate boundary to be when you sacrifice permanent POW to a deity, not just temp MP's.

I think a God can tell (by way of Rune Pools most likely; but also just -- because they're Gods, and we don't need mechanics!!!) when an existing Initiate goes slutting their POW around to other deities, or conversely comes to offer POW with the lipstick stains of another deity on their collar...

[GAZZA]

Why don't we need mechanics? We have mechanics for joining cults, surely we can have mechanics for leaving them? (And I suspect we will, once we have the full write ups that include the spirits of reprisal).

You are always free to ignore mechanics (I do it all the time!) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have them.

[French Desperate WindChild]

6 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

Why don't we need mechanics? We have mechanics for joining cults, surely we can have mechanics for leaving them? (And I suspect we will, once we have the full write ups that include the spirits of reprisal).

You are always free to ignore mechanics (I do it all the time!) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have them.

the mechanic is already given, the pc stops sacrifice pow / magic expected from an initiate and is no more an initiate

worship and guilder can be stop or not, depending if the pc wants to stay lay member, keep good relation with the cult, etc..

the priest (gm) has to decide to excomunicate (with reprisal) or not the pc. that's the roleplay way (or just gm decision)

[GAZZA]

11 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

the mechanic is already given, the pc stops sacrifice pow / magic expected from an initiate and is no more an initiate

You are never required to sacrifice POW once you become an initiate. You probably will, especially if you're a PC, but you're not required to. And it is far from clear to me that a lay member isn't saccing MPs at worship ceremonies.

I'm not just being obtuse here. In previous versions of RQ this was not an open question: a priest cast Excommunicate on you, and bingo bango bongo you were no longer an initiate (with possibly exceptions for illuminates). That spell no longer exists in RQG (along with other staples like Spellteaching) so the process is no longer defined.

And I'm sorry to keep harping on about this, but we don't know what spirits of reprisal are in RQG. So at best we know what happens when you leave and immediately join an associated cult (and that's with my generously assuming that's what it means to "transfer" - because transfer isn't defined either). We don't know:

• What happens if you leave cult A, bugger around godless for a while, and then join associated cult B. Do cult A's spirits of reprisal (whatever they are) stop? Is there a maximum time that can elapse before this would be true? Do spirits of reprisal ever stop normally for "leaving a cult" infractions?
• What happens if you join associated cult B while still being an initiate of cult A, and then subsequently decide you can't be buggered doing cult A's tithing any more. Do you get spirits of reprisal then? Is there a minimum or maximum time that can elapse while you are a member of both that will change the answer to that question?

Are these critically important questions? Of course not. All I said was that I hoped this sort of thing will be defined better in the Gods and Goddesses book, in addition to legions of cult writeups that I will likely never use (but, lest anyone take that the wrong way, I have absolutely no problem with existing since I realise that the authors of RQG are not working solely for my benefit). And if I'm being honest I will actually be surprised if these concepts are defined better in the gods book, if for no other reason than that it would appear I am the only one that thinks such rules would be at all useful.  (But also because if they took the time to remove Excommunication then they likely did it because they no longer thought it was necessary).

Edited May 18, 2020 by GAZZA

[Austin]

15 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

In previous versions of RQ this was not an open question: a priest cast Excommunicate on you, and bingo bango bongo you were no longer an initiate

Did they replace it with Ban, in RQG? Or was Ban also in previous editions? This is the first edition I've gamemastered, or read material of to a significant degree. Ban is basically an excommunication from a particular temple.

I don't know if we'll get leaving/transferring cult rules, but I'm expecting we'll get descriptions of the Spirits of Reprisal from the cults book. The cults are supposed to be in long-form, and all the long-form cults I've read from other old material have Spirits of Reprisal listed.