g33k Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) Am I reading correctly that Ernalda, Yinkin, and Eurmal are the only cults that have "native" access to Charisma (and Orlanth gets it from Eurmal)? That surprises me... I'd have thought that would be a 7M spell, too; and possibly other Earth goddesses like Uleria! (edit -- plus of course we've got Jeff's big ol' Gods Project barreling down on us; no telling WHAT that'll bring!) Edited November 17, 2020 by g33k GaGoG Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 hours ago, g33k said: Am I reading correctly that Ernalda, Yinkin, and Eurmal are the only cults that have "native" access to Charisma (and Orlanth gets it from Eurmal)? That surprises me... I'd have thought that would be a 7M spell, too; and possibly other Earth goddesses like Uleria! (edit -- plus of course we've got Jeff's big ol' Gods Project barreling down on us; no telling WHAT that'll bring!) Yes, it's part of their mythology. I don't recall any 7M having a seduction aspect. Hon-eel has it though, along with the Twin stars and the spirit cults; White Bull and Dolphin sister. 1 Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g33k Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 9 hours ago, David Scott said: ... I don't recall any 7M having a seduction aspect. Hon-eel has it though ... Exactly. Where did Hon-eel get it, if not as a Lunar spell? And, having it (however she got it)... doesn't that make it now a Lunar magic? Maybe it's only through Sedenya, not a "mere" 7M magic? Hon-eel's exploits are a significant piece of the Lunar mythography, and having that spell missing feels like a piece of Lunar Rune-Magic is missing. It also looks like a "missing" bit when you look at the Lunar-vs-StormTribe situation: What with YT echoing H, IO's take on LM, etc... there's an awful lot of Romans-version-of-Greek vibe; and as an important spell available to Big E *and* to Big O, it seems like the Lunars "should" have their own version (even if only as a One Use rune magic). YGWV. So will mine. 😉 Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, g33k said: And, having it (however she got it)... doesn't that make it now a Lunar magic? Nobody is saying "It isn't Lunar magic", it's just that the one Lunar cult listed in the basic book doesn't have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g33k Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 4 hours ago, PhilHibbs said: Nobody is saying "It isn't Lunar magic", it's just that the one Lunar cult listed in the basic book doesn't have it. meh... 7M is the "central" cult for the Lunars, the way ErnaldOrlanth is for those folk. And I don't think RQG is the "basic" book so much as the CORE book, the "central" book. Given that the Storm Tribe has *four* cults that get it, it continues to look like an oversight. Returning to the accounts of Hon-eel, I'd see that as the single most-evident use of Charisma in the game's mythography. I guess I could understand it as Sedenya being the "rulers" cult (like ErnaldOrlanth), so it makes sense to come from Her not from the 7M ... (maybe?) Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Dangerduck Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, g33k said: meh... 7M is the "central" cult for the Lunars, the way ErnaldOrlanth is for those folk. This is where we disagree on "canon". IMO, 7M is the provincial, "missionary" aspect of the Lunars. Sedenya / Natha/ whatever you end up calling it is the real central cult, and they should certainly have the Charisma spell. And I agree that there may be other cults that got overlooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalph Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 51 minutes ago, g33k said: meh... 7M is the "central" cult for the Lunars, the way ErnaldOrlanth is for those folk. No, it isn't. Seven Mothers is explicitly a cult of the borderlands. Quote The cult is specially powerful at the edges of the Empire where they form instructive temples to serve as bases of Lunar operation. Thus they are ever at the beginning of the Empire just as they were at the beginning of the goddess. Even within the Empire there are many who are content with knowing this superficiality of the Red Goddess and worship only the Seven Mothers, without exploring the potentials or ramifications of the individuals. [...] The Seven Mothers is the guardian cult of the borderlands, and is an official state cult responsible for keeping foes of the Empire out and admitting friends of the Empire Cults of Prax p39 The cult of the Seven Mothers is the political and magical representative for the Lunar religion in the borderland regions of the Empire. Cults of Prax p40. The description of the Seven Mothers cult as a superficiality is quite a burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 14 hours ago, g33k said: Where did Hon-eel get it, Likely as part of her mythology. Hon-eel the dancer likely gained Charisma on one of her many heroquests. You can read up on her in the Glorantha Sourcebook. It's clear to me that's why she has Charisma. 14 hours ago, g33k said: if not as a Lunar spell? And, having it (however she got it)... doesn't that make it now a Lunar magic? Maybe it's only through Sedenya, not a "mere" 7M magic? It's subject to the Lunar cycle as are all Lunar magics. 14 hours ago, g33k said: Hon-eel's exploits are a significant piece of the Lunar mythography, and having that spell missing feels like a piece of Lunar Rune-Magic is missing. Rune spells are an expression of a god's mythology. Don't forget Lunar gods are ascended humans, so their mythologies aren't as deep. 14 hours ago, g33k said: YGWV. So will mine. 😉 So a shorter version of all this would have been - I have decided that in my Glorantha the Lunar pantheon should have better access to the Charisma spell. Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 11 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said: This is where we disagree on "canon". IMO, 7M is the provincial, "missionary" aspect of the Lunars. Sedenya / Natha/ whatever you end up calling it is the real central cult, and they should certainly have the Charisma spell. And I agree that there may be other cults that got overlooked. The Red Goddess does not have Charisma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldennose Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 In my Glorantha I would make Estal Donge a worshipper of Hon-Eel or subcult of that goddess and she would have Charisma-spell... And spells not listed in Godlearner Books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g33k Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Jeff said: The Red Goddess does not have Charisma. On the one hand, I just wanna snark on that one-liner (pretending I don't understand it's the Rune-spell) because the Red Goddess most certainly has an extraordinary CHA! On the other hand: TYVM @Jeff -- it's great to have this settled authoritatively! May i be so bold as to further ask (if you know yet; is the Gods Project complete-enough to be sure?) if Lunar worshipers have ANY way to get the Charisma Rune-spell in the normal course of things (prayer & POW-sac for +1 Rune Pool & a Rune-Spell), any Lunar cult that offers it? Or is it something that Lunars would need to heroquest to gain, as a "special" (not normally-available) Rune-spell? Edited November 18, 2020 by g33k Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 5 hours ago, g33k said: any Lunar cult that offers it? David already noted that Hon-eel provides it. And Hon-eel was the one who courted and won the Sun for her lover. And I believe Hwarin Dalthippa may offer it as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Dangerduck Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 24 minutes ago, jajagappa said: David already noted that Hon-eel provides it. And Hon-eel was the one who courted and won the Sun for her lover. And I believe Hwarin Dalthippa may offer it as well. There's been discussions with Nick and Jeff that Red Emperor has it (at least, his "voice" does) as well as the city cult of Glamour. I assumed they provide it to the Red Goddess (or vice versa) but apparently not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordabdul Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, g33k said: May i be so bold as to further ask (if you know yet; is the Gods Project complete-enough to be sure?) if Lunar worshipers have ANY way to get the Charisma Rune-spell in the normal course of things (prayer & POW-sac for +1 Rune Pool & a Rune-Spell), any Lunar cult that offers it? Or is it something that Lunars would need to heroquest to gain, as a "special" (not normally-available) Rune-spell? Don't forget that the Charisma Rune spell as described in the RQG isn't set in stone as the only ever ever way for anybody across the entire Glorantha to look pretty and sound good. There might be other Rune spells and gifts that give similar or related advantages. Edited November 19, 2020 by lordabdul Quote Ludovic aka Lordabdul -- read and listen to The God Learners , the Gloranthan podcast, newsletter, & blog ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 There is a big difference between a Deity/Demigod/Hero who has an ability and those who grant that in the form of magic. Many powerful beings have more abilities than they grant as spells. HeroQuestors can pick these up as abilities by performing HeroQuests. Also, the Lunars don't share all their spells, in the same that the Lightbringers don't. The Seven Mothers cult is unusual as it is made up of spells from other cults. But Hon-Eel having a spell does not mean that all Lunar cults get it, in the same way that not all Lunar cults have access to spells from Etyries, or from the Seven Mothers. 3 1 Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorus Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I would guess that Hon-eel got Charisma from Eurmal. Whether she wrested it out of him or Eurmal gave it to her as part of a trick (on her or someone else) or he just was in the mood to do so randomly that day (or all of the above) would make a good myth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 11 minutes ago, Scorus said: I would guess that Hon-eel got Charisma from Eurmal. Whether she wrested it out of him or Eurmal gave it to her as part of a trick (on her or someone else) or he just was in the mood to do so randomly that day (or all of the above) would make a good myth. Or when she danced her way to the skies in one of her quests, she encountered the Twin Stars (who are Lunar spirits) and learned it from them... 2 Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Hon-eel entered the Ernaldan rites of Heruvernalda. Why look for other sources if her connection to Ernalda is already well known? 5 Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 13 hours ago, Joerg said: Hon-eel entered the Ernaldan rites of Heruvernalda. Why look for other sources if her connection to Ernalda is already well known? Where's the link between Hon-eel and Heruvernalda? Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, David Scott said: Where's the link between Hon-eel and Heruvernalda? Heruvernalda is the Kordros Island Temple of Ernalda mentioned in King of Sartar, p.102 Hardcover edition/pdf Quote Hon‑eel the Artess came to the land in 1490. With subtle enchantments and sweeping magic powers the Lunar Heroine invaded the most secret rites of the Kordros Island Temple of Ernalda, and thereby convinced the participants that she was and had always been one among them. Also p.21 and p.179 in the Sourcebook. Edited November 20, 2020 by Joerg Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 29 minutes ago, Joerg said: Heruvernalda is the Kordros Island Temple of Ernalda mentioned in King of Sartar, p.102 Hardcover edition/pdf Thanks, it's the first time I've realised the size of Kordros Island I didn't realise it was that big (I'd previously imagined it was just around the dunstop area). Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 On 11/17/2020 at 10:33 AM, David Scott said: Yes, it's part of their mythology. I don't recall any 7M having a seduction aspect. Hon-eel has it though, along with the Twin stars and the spirit cults; White Bull and Dolphin sister. Seseine, one would assume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.