Warding question

[Godlearner]

15 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Took a sec to reorient myself, got it now. As long as the room is 3m wide at that point it should fly quite nicely.

 

Set the bottom set at abdomen level and let the fun begin. Just as they think they crossed the boundary, they keep taking damage the next round. 

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

teleportation, but also flight, leap , command sylph and others.

Ah but for me the ward is a sphere or a cube or some 3-dimensional shape. It makes no sense to me to make it 2 dimensional only or have no roof or floor. YGWV.

Edited March 8, 2021 by lordabdul

[Bill the barbarian]

14 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Ah but for me the ward is a sphere or a cube or some 3-dimensional shape. It makes no sense to me to make it 2 dimensional only or have no roof or floor. YGWV.

Hmm, I wonder is the powers that be will make an official ruling or just say, Çhacun an son goût, good lordabdul and French Desprtae WindChild, et al. This looks like an excellent spot for YGWV. Keep an adventurer on his or her toes, doncha know!

[PhilHibbs]

28 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Hmm, I wonder is the powers that be will make an official ruling or just say, Çhacun an son goût, good lordabdul and French Desprtae WindChild, et al. This looks like an excellent spot for YGWV. Keep an adventurer on his or her toes, doncha know!

Steve Perrin said he thinks it is a box with a roof. Actually, the spell itself says it extends 3m into the air above the wands.

Edited March 8, 2021 by PhilHibbs

[Bill the barbarian]

20 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Steve Perrin said he thinks it is a box with a roof.

Steve is quite the authority on RQ, strue and he was one of the authors of RQG. And M. Hibbs, I would have to acknowledge your knowledge of Chaosium history. So odds are really good that it has a roof (does it have a floor?). Still it tickles my fancy to see where folk differ despite good reason to not that they should choose their own . adventure, if you will. 

Cheers

 

[Akhôrahil]

41 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Steve Perrin said he thinks it is a box with a roof. Actually, the spell itself says it extends 3m into the air above the wands.

While I do agree about the roof (and by symmetry, floor), the latter part there only defines the height of the ”walls”.

[French Desperate WindChild]

7 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Ah but for me the ward is a sphere or a cube or some 3-dimensional shape. It makes no sense to me to make it 2 dimensional only or have no roof or floor. YGWV.

for me too it is 3d  spell

I was proofing (or trying) by contradiction that a 2d spell seems to me too weak to have not been improve by the gloranthan themselves.

 

6 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Çhacun an son goût, good lordabdul and French Desprtae WindChild, et al. This looks like an excellent spot for YGWV.

for sure, my great oiled barbarian and everyone can change the rules. But... what are the rules ?

there are words in the rules and there are intent in the rules.  I understand the intent as "the ward create a safer place from outside, a bull of sacred 'peace' (no matter spheric or cubic)"

[David Scott]

10 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Steve Perrin said he thinks it is a box with a roof.

I'm not disagreeing, but where did he say this?

[PhilHibbs]

7 hours ago, David Scott said:

I'm not disagreeing, but where did he say this?

Facebook, quite recently.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/RuneQuest/permalink/1875280079314649/

A more accurate quote:

Quote

Since I wrote that particular spell, think of it as a volume, not a wall, However, it only works against an intruder once, unless the miscreant leaves and comes back.

So additionally, he doesn't seem to think that crossing a very narrow warding would hit twice. You have to come back in to get hit a second time, which makes sense to me. Could you make a weird warding shaped like a very tight > to get the double hit? I'd say no, that's gamesmanship and egregious munchkinnery, which I HAVE NO TIME FOR! How does the spell know what wand order to transcribe the area in? I think it would snap to a minimum circumference bounding shape around the wands.

Edited March 9, 2021 by PhilHibbs

[kr0p0s]

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Facebook, quite recently.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/RuneQuest/permalink/1875280079314649/

Nick Brooke: "It's not a fence, it's a sacred space. Did you end up inside the sacred space? Zap."

Its a SACRED space. I think all the gamey uses of it to fool people, such as double wards in a pitfall, making it an inch wide and long  etc are not in keeping with its purpose as a defensive sacred space. YGMV.

[Lordabdul]

7 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Facebook, quite recently.

Nice, thanks. Even more interesting, Steve Perrin adds:

"Its main utility is a warning, not a damage producer."

(which explains the low damage, and support the idea that more dangerous protections lie inside)

And for some "behind the scenes" goodness, some people in that thread muse about the specific inspiration of the warding "wands", which Steve says were a reference to some fantasy literature of the time that he forgot about, which other people then go on to pin point.

[Godlearner]

Quote

"Its main utility is a warning, not a damage producer."

I would expect Sanctify to be that. By the way, Sanctify is specifically specified to be a "one hemisphere would roughly be in the air, and the other within the earth."

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

I would expect Sanctify to be that.

IMHO Sanctify serves a different purpose -- it's to make religious rituals more effective. For instance, worship for replenishing Rune Points.

You could ward a treasure room (no religious purpose here), or you could sanctify without warding if you don't expect trouble.

Note that the difference is who gets the warning: with Sanctify, the caster is warned about someone intruding. With Warding, the intruder is warned (by way of getting zapped for a couple points of damage).

Edited March 9, 2021 by lordabdul

[Godlearner]

Quote

IMHO Sanctify serves a different purpose -- it's to make religious rituals more effective. For instance, worship for replenishing Rune Points.

All temples have Sanctify, Warding not so much.

Note that Warding works against the enemies of the caster (or anyone but the caster that attempts to touch the stakes).  Sanctify works on non initiated. To me that says that Sanctify is an alarm, Warding is a defense. 

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

To me that says that Sanctify is an alarm, Warding is a defense.

Sanctify IMO is not an alarm.  It's your connection to the God Time.  That's what allows you to perform and channel worship to your god.  No Sanctify, no connection to your deity. 

Warding is what alerts you to those enemies who come to interfere with your worship services in the Sanctified ground.

[Baron Wulfraed]

9 hours ago, lordabdul said:

And for some "behind the scenes" goodness, some people in that thread muse about the specific inspiration of the warding "wands", which Steve says were a reference to some fantasy literature of the time that he forgot about, which other people then go on to pin point.

CF: the warding cubes in Kurtz's Deryni series

https://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php?topic=1947.0 https://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php?topic=1948.0

[Godlearner]

Quote

Sanctify IMO is not an alarm.  It's your connection to the God Time.  That's what allows you to perform and channel worship to your god.  No Sanctify, no connection to your deity. 

Sure, but why can it not be both a connection and a convenient alarm. As a warning system it is easier to setup than a Warding spell and sometimes, you do not want to do damage. 

[PhilHibbs]

Sanctify alerts the caster if non-Initiates enter, and allows religious ceremonies. Warding alerts the caster if enemies enter, and gives them a zap to warn them that they are not welcome. Both have their uses.

[Akhôrahil]

38 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Sanctify alerts the caster if non-Initiates enter, and allows religious ceremonies. Warding alerts the caster if enemies enter, and gives them a zap to warn them that they are not welcome. Both have their uses.

We had a discussion about whether Warding blows up rodents and bugs that try to enter. I guess technically it would - it's not like they are invited? This would make warding your granary a good investment.

[David Scott]

3 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

We had a discussion about whether Warding blows up rodents and bugs that try to enter. I guess technically it would - it's not like they are invited? This would make warding your granary a good investment.

given that the description says:

Quote

The protection effects activate when physical or spirit enemies of the caster cross the barrier, or when a spell is cast across the barrier from the outside.

So if the caster has bugs and rodents as enemies that would work. So an initiate of a Grain Goddess Warding a granary would likely work, other gods without the connection likely not. 

[Akhôrahil]

While this has no bearing on RAW, I houseruled that anyone granted formal hospitality is exempt from Warding (you could argue that said person doesn’t count as an enemy). All kinds of weird things open up if it’s not run this way.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Akhôrahil

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

given that the description says:

So if the caster has bugs and rodents as enemies that would work. So an initiate of a Grain Goddess Warding a granary would likely work, other gods without the connection likely not. 

And then the goddess of rodents would bless her critters with a Countermagic ability...