Who uses Dullblade?

[Lordabdul]

On 4/15/2021 at 1:05 PM, Joerg said:

Ducks riding sylphs (or getting tossed by them) might count as flying, and might incur Yelmic wrath...

Someone might have the idea to start tossing large crowds of ducks just to see if it does indeed incur Yelm's wrath... because if it does, then it would confirm the origin of ducks! And if not, then you proceed with the other theories until you have eliminated them all...

Also, I assume that a common Sartarite adynaton (yes I learned a new word today!) might be "<something unlikely>...when ducks fly!". Which is all the more funny if, at the same time, the aforementioned sylph-propelled waterfowl was to cross the frame in the background.

 

14 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Dullblade doesn't affect the wielder directly, in my opinion. It affects the sword. This is orthogonal to whether you need a POW roll to cast a spell on someone's held item.

Yeah agreed. My explanation of Bladesharp/Dullblade affecting the wearer's skill while being only tied to the weapon is that, for instance, it affects the perceived weight and balance in the wearer's hand. So for Dullblade, it might make the pommel feel light and the blade feel heavy, or make it feel like the sword wobbles when you move it, which makes it harder to handle. Bladesharp makes it feel more balanced, maybe even feel lighter overall. That gives bonuses or penalties, like any magical item that has magical buffs on it.

Edited April 17, 2021 by lordabdul

[Akhôrahil]

2 hours ago, lordabdul said:

And if not, then you proceed with the other theories until you have eliminated them all...

All the theories, or all the ducks?

[Shiningbrow]

35 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

All the theories, or all the ducks?

That is literally what I was going to post! 

[Shiningbrow]

2 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Someone might have the idea to start tossing large crowds of ducks just to see if it does indeed incur Yelm's wrath... because if it does, then it would confirm the origin of ducks! And if not, then you proceed with the other theories until you have eliminated them all...

Also, I assume that a common Sartarite adynaton (yes I learned a new word today!) might be "<something unlikely>...when ducks fly!". Which is all the more funny if, at the same time, the aforementioned sylph-propelled waterfowl was to cross the frame in the background.

 

Yeah agreed. My explanation of Bladesharp/Dullblade affecting the wearer's skill while being only tied to the weapon is that, for instance, it affects the perceived weight and balance in the wearer's hand. So for Dullblade, it might make the pommel feel light and the blade feel heavy, or make it feel like the sword wobbles when you move it, which makes it harder to handle. Bladesharp makes it feel more balanced, maybe even feel lighter overall. That gives bonuses or penalties, like any magical item that has magical buffs on it.

Just as an aside, but related, I thought there was a thread or something about this, regarding dual-weilding, and the Bladesharp not giving the skill bonus to both bladed weapons. E.g., sword & dagger, with Bladesharp on the dagger not in any way altering the sword attack.

[Mugen]

4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

All the theories, or all the ducks?

If you want to go the easy way, I think there are less ducks than theories...

[PhilHibbs]

11 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

... regarding dual-weilding, and the Bladesharp not giving the skill bonus to both bladed weapons. E.g., sword & dagger, with Bladesharp on the dagger not in any way altering the sword attack.

It definitely only counts for the one weapon.

[Pentallion]

Dullblade works great for the guy with heavy armor.  And do you really want dullblade cast on  your sword by the troll you're fighting when getting damage through is literally the only way you're going to defeat that guy?

The troll laughs at your puny iron weapon.

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Pentallion

[Godlearner]

Until they drop that sword and pull out another.

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Pentallion said:

...  And do you really want dullblade cast on  your sword by the troll you're fighting when getting damage through is literally the only way you're going to defeat that guy?

The troll laughs at your puny iron weapon.

Yes, and unlike the mistake I made in the other thread, Dullblade is double-effective on iron weapons from a troll's perspective.

[HreshtIronBorne]

2 hours ago, Pentallion said:

Dullblade works great for the guy with heavy armor.  And do you really want dullblade cast on  your sword by the troll you're fighting when getting damage through is literally the only way you're going to defeat that guy?

The troll laughs at your puny iron weapon

Also, combining Multispell or the shaman ability to Multi-cast Spirit magic makes it a pretty good option for a support caster type. This works even better if they are Fanatical or Berserk, so they do less damage on their mandatory attacks and you still get to hit with no parry/dodge or at most half dodge. 

[soltakss]

On 4/16/2021 at 11:57 AM, Shiningbrow said:

Pretty sure that's actually Firearrow - 2mp for such an instant spell is outrageous! And you still need to be fortunate to hit.

Firearrow is great, as it destroys the weapon. So, cast it on the enemy Rune lord's magical hammer that returns when thrown - fffft!

[PhilHibbs]

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

Firearrow is great, as it destroys the weapon. So, cast it on the enemy Rune lord's magical hammer that returns when thrown - fffft!

Quote

The spell must be cast on an
ordinary arrow, rock, or dart which bursts into flame and is
consumed as the missile leaves the hand

A magical returning hammer is not "an ordinary arrow, rock, or dart". RQ3 had the same wording.

RQ2 said "This spell can also be cast on sling stones and thrown weapons", so there's room there to interpret it as allowing this trick, but the door is closed now.

Edited April 17, 2021 by PhilHibbs

[Godlearner]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

Firearrow is great, as it destroys the weapon. So, cast it on the enemy Rune lord's magical hammer that returns when thrown - fffft!

Yeah, nice try, but .... no!

[Kloster]

On 4/16/2021 at 9:20 PM, Bill the barbarian said:

Agreed with the gratitude to Scott for the clarification, sorry Kloster! Plus using it for CAs and Ernalda healers as he suggested earlier is great!

Don't be sorry. He gaves us a great explanation and this is what matters.

[Pentallion]

When you get right down to it, Dullblade is like a shimmer (they are minus to hit you) and a protection (they inflict that much less damage) combined.  the only drawback is it only is useful vs certain weapons.

[Shiningbrow]

9 hours ago, soltakss said:

Firearrow is great, as it destroys the weapon. So, cast it on the enemy Rune lord's magical hammer that returns when thrown - fffft!

You've been hanging out on the God's plane too long.

(Or playing D&D)

[PhilHibbs]

12 hours ago, Pentallion said:

Dullblade is like a shimmer... and a protection... combined. the only drawback is it only is useful vs certain weapons

Only melee weapons, yes. On the other hand, it always works, even on criticals, which Protection does not.

Edited April 18, 2021 by PhilHibbs

[Dragon]

21 hours ago, soltakss said:

Firearrow is great, as it destroys the weapon. So, cast it on the enemy Rune lord's magical hammer that returns when thrown - fffft!

Maybe...but since Firearrow is Touch, you have to cast it exactly then the Rune Lord's hammer hits you. 🙂 

Does that hurt his hand when it returns?

[Darius West]

A duck flying on a sylph is not a flying duck.  The sylph is flying, not the duck.  And ultimately, we must ask ourselves what isn't Yelm offended by (apart from utter conformity to his whim)?

Also, I can honestly say that even my Chalana Arroy gangster character never learned Dullblade.  It just isn't a versatile spell.  Where possible, I would always advocate for Dispel Magic rather than Dullblade, although Dispel Magic is almost never provided as a cult magic as far as I can tell.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Darius West

[Godlearner]

Dispel Magic is good, but in this specific instance, that is reducing damage and the to hit percentage, Dullblade is better.

If facing an opponent with a Bladesharp 4 on his sword for example, a Dispel 2 will have no affect (and would be  a waste of magic points and of an action), while a Dullblade 2 will reduce the damage. 

BTW, something I just spotted under Bladesharp description:

" If Dullblade is also cast on the weapon, the improved chance to hit from Bladesharp is not affected, but the weapon’s additional damage is reduced by the second spell."

Does that mean that if you cast a Bladesharp 1 and then someone casts a Dullblade 4 the total affect on the weapon is +5% to hit and -3 damage?

[PhilHibbs]

13 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

Does that mean that if you cast a Bladesharp 1 and then someone casts a Dullblade 4 the total affect on the weapon is +5% to hit and -3 damage?

Apparently so.

[Godlearner]

3 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Apparently so.

Seems wrong.

[PhilHibbs]

1 minute ago, Godlearner said:

Seems wrong.

Yes I agree, I'd probably just add the positives and negatives.

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Yes I agree, I'd probably just add the positives and negatives.

Same. That extra sentence on Bladesharp seems like unnecessary and unnatural crunch.

[Akhôrahil]

I think I have an explanation for the weird Bladesharp text.

The Bladesharp text appears almost verbatim in RQ3, but in RQ3, Dullblade merely subtracts damage, without reducing hit chance. Hence, it's a perfectly sensible comment in RQ3 - it clarifies that first Bladesharp adds both hit chance and damage, but then Dullblade merely removes damage rather than the other possible interpretation, that it negates the whole Bladesharp spell in its entirety. (RQ3 Magic Book pp 19-20.)

When the Bladesharp text is applied unchanged to RQG while Dullblade has been (sensibly, in my mind - symmetry is good) changed to now reduce hit chance as well, it stops making sense.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Akhôrahil