Pavis & Big Rubble Companion: The Directors' Cut Relaunch

[Brian Duguid]

Explanation from Rick here of why they can't/won't reprint the Glorantha Classics again:

 

[Ian A. Thomson]

Why no 'Strangers in Prax' anywhere to be found? Or am I just missing it. Lunar Coders - best supplement ever!!

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, Ian Thomson said:

Why no 'Strangers in Prax' anywhere to be found? Or am I just missing it. Lunar Coders - best supplement ever!!

Because no RQ3 supplement has ever been republished. I am awaiting for them.

[soltakss]

2 hours ago, Kloster said:

4 hours ago, Ian Thomson said:

Why no 'Strangers in Prax' anywhere to be found? Or am I just missing it. Lunar Coders - best supplement ever!!

Because no RQ3 supplement has ever been republished. I am awaiting for them.

I will buy them all as PDFs as soon as they come on DTRPG, using my Jonstown Compendium Royalties.

[Ian A. Thomson]

PUBLICATION SIZES?

Hi Folks

Let's say someone discovered that they had a phenomenal amount of material to republish and that the page count was looking horrendous...

What's a good size for a publication on Jonstown in terms of page count? IE What do people consider to be a good solid amount of pages, but not so much where people go: "I'm not buying that encyclopedia!!!"

Basically I'm at the stage of starting to put it all into the new order in the volumes, and have a fair bit of flexibility from Vol 03 onwards as to what the focus/content of each volume could be

Here's a text-per page example

Thanks heaps

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Ian Thomson said:

What's a good size for a publication on Jonstown in terms of page count?

The high end is Armies and Enemies of Dragon Pass at 390 pages.  It's also a Gold Best Seller (over 500 copies sold).

The Kralori Primer has increased in size over time (that is allowed) and is now at 285 pages.  It is Silver Tier (100+ copies sold)

Company of the Dragon at 270 pages.  It's also a Gold Best Seller.

Secrets of Dorastor comes in at 260 pages, and is a Electrum Best Seller (250+ copies).

Each of the two Life of Moonson books come in around 240 pages.  Both are Silver Tier.

Nick Brooke's Jonstown Compendium Index https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/385826/Jonstown-Compendium-Index-2022 is a very handy and useful guide for all these type of details (# of pages, price per page, etc.)

Most larger works tend to be in the 100-200 page range.

Typical pricing on the larger works tends to be in the 10-15 cents per page range.

[Ian A. Thomson]

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Most larger works tend to be in the 100-200 page range.

Fantastic; thanks for that

I can work well with the 100-200 page range

Great!

[Nick Brooke]

The best advice I can give is: don’t price any book at more than $19.95 in PDF, or sales will likely fall off a cliff. This is based on internal research by DriveThruRPG, you can probably find the blog posts with a little digging (update: here). We’ve made 180-page books for around $20 (Citizens, Black Spear), and that’s as long as I’d go nowadays. Pretty sure Drew concurs. (Our pricier titles were Life of Moonson for me and Company of the Dragon for him; in both cases, sales have disappointed compared to our shorter, earlier works, and we’ve decided not to release any more longer works).

The four Sandheart books and Glamour are around 100 pages. Six Seasons is 144. Look up the rest in the Catalogue if you’re interested, it comes bundled with a spreadsheet inc. page count and price data you can manipulate to your heart’s content.

Print pricing works differently: my usual advice is to maintain your digital margin on the average print sale, so you’d usually aim for the print price to be around 2x digital price (more for premium colour, less for standard colour, and much less for black & white). Use the print cost calculator on DriveThruRPG to fine-tune strategies.

My generic advice on pricing: if your digital edition costs more than 15 cents per page of content (excluding covers, front matter, adverts, blank space, etc.), you’d better have plenty of good original artwork to justify it, or else your book will stick out like an expensive thumb in my Catalogue.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Nick Brooke
Added link to pricing blog posts.

[Ian A. Thomson]

4 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

The best advice I can give is: don’t price any book at more than $19.95 in PDF, or sales will likely fall off a cliff. This is based on internal research by DriveThruRPG, you can probably find the blog posts with a little digging. We’ve made 180-page books for around $20 (Citizens, Black Spear), and that’s as long as I’d go nowadays. Pretty sure Drew concurs. (Our pricier titles were Life of Moonson for me and Company of the Dragon for him; in both cases, sales have disappointed compared to our shorter, earlier works, and we’ve decided not to release any more longer works).

Hmm, so I'm looking most likely then, based on the helpful feedback so far, probably at 140-170 pages per Vol. (Lower end if possible, higher end if needed for logical content consistency.)

[Nick Brooke]

3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Each of the two Life of Moonson books come in around 240 pages.  Both are Silver Tier.

Book One has sold nearly 200 copies, and Book Two is on nearly 150. You can see sales charts for all major Jonstown Compendium releases here: link.

My takeaway from the charts: the worst-selling titles on the JC are written in foreign languages, written for QuestWorlds, or set in exotic locations (outside Dragon Pass & Prax & the Lunar Empire). I didn’t bother charting the short/expensive stuff, because sales are way lower than for other, sensibly-priced releases.

[Akhôrahil]

On 3/20/2022 at 12:56 AM, Ian Thomson said:

What's a good size for a publication on Jonstown in terms of page count? IE What do people consider to be a good solid amount of pages, but not so much where people go: "I'm not buying that encyclopedia!!!"

I like them as large as possible.

I also may not be representative.

[Qizilbashwoman]

23 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I like them as large as possible.

i saw this in the preview and was like WHAT NOW I'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT

Edited March 21, 2022 by Qizilbashwoman

[Austin]

On 3/19/2022 at 6:56 PM, Ian Thomson said:

What's a good size for a publication on Jonstown in terms of page count? IE What do people consider to be a good solid amount of pages, but not so much where people go: "I'm not buying that encyclopedia!!!"

Just throwing my voice in to concur with everything Nick has said; his numbers are spot-on for my own experience. I aim a little higher on my price-per-page (at the $0.20 mark on my longer stuff, like Treasures of Glorantha), but that's also because I like pretty pictures and want to fill the pages with them.

I suggest budgeting based on 100 sales, and then everything after is just gravy to slather onto the art budget of your next volume.

On the topic of art, budgeting, etc., the most important cost is a good cover. Good covers sell books.

[JonL]

On 3/14/2022 at 6:46 PM, jajagappa said:

"HeroQuest" can mean a couple different versions, e.g. the original Hero Wars, HeroQuest 1st ed, HeroQuest 2nd ed, or HeroQuest Glorantha (the last being referred to as QuestWorlds).

From the JC Guidelines:

What rules can I use in my product for the Jonstown Compendium?

Your work can use any rules and setting materials from the books and materials published by Chaosium:

• RuneQuest Roleplaying in Glorantha
• RuneQuest Classic
• HeroQuest Glorantha
• QuestWorlds SRD

And:

Can I create and sell content for previous editions of the RuneQuest or HeroQuest Roleplaying Games?

The Jonstown Compendium accepts content designed for RuneQuest Roleplaying in Glorantha, RuneQuest Classic (RuneQuest 2^nd Edition), HeroQuest Glorantha, and QuestWorlds. If you have created something for a different edition that you want to use with a Jonstown Compendium product, you must update it to one of these approved rulesets.

---------------------

So if you have stats from HW or HQ1, you will need to convert to HQG or the QuestWorlds SRD.  Which might not be a lot, but you have to assess that.

As written, that's "You must use one of these approved rulesets, including the one that's a toolkit framework for making your own rulesets." - I mean, I suppose I shouldn't complain because it's better for potential authors, but I don't think that's how they actually want this to work. 

What's particularly confusing about this is that you could functionally implement HW/HQ1-style mechanics using the QuestWorlds SRD v.1 (the first public release), with ease. Later versions go in some new directions evolving towards what will appear in the upcoming QW core book, but the early iterations were very much in a space of providing a toolkit that represented a superset of the previous editions from which you could use whichever pieces make sense for your game. It already puts stuff like AP bidding that HQ2 dropped back on the table. Referring to or quoting things specifically from HW or HQ1 that aren't replicated in the SRD would still be off limits, but as written your own implementation of things in the older style should be OK. (Unless it's not. 🤷‍♂️)

[Nick Brooke]

1 hour ago, JonL said:

Referring to or quoting things specifically from HW or HQ1 that aren't replicated in the SRD would still be off limits, but as written your own implementation of things in the older style should be OK. (Unless it's not. 🤷‍♂️)

Please don’t do this: we would hate you to waste your time and ours. See also the JC FAQ:

If you submit something deliberately unsuitable but “technically legitimate, I suppose” to the community content store, Chaosium will remove it from sale and may take any other actions to defend the integrity of the community content programme.

If you want to check whether your proposed creation is acceptable or crosses any lines, my contact details are below. If you’re writing Gloranthan QuestWorlds content, please follow the HeroQuest 2e rules as implemented in HeroQuest Glorantha and its product line (Sartar: KoH, Sartar Companion, Pavis: GTA, etc.), rather than retro-emulating now deprecated features from Hero Wars or HeroQuest 1e.

QuestWorlds titles are among the worst-selling community content titles already, please don’t do anything that might poison the well. (Puddle? I dunno)

[Rick Meints]

12 hours ago, JonL said:

As written, that's "You must use one of these approved rulesets, including the one that's a toolkit framework for making your own rulesets." - I mean, I suppose I shouldn't complain because it's better for potential authors, but I don't think that's how they actually want this to work. 

What's particularly confusing about this is that you could functionally implement HW/HQ1-style mechanics using the QuestWorlds SRD v.1 (the first public release), with ease. Later versions go in some new directions evolving towards what will appear in the upcoming QW core book, but the early iterations were very much in a space of providing a toolkit that represented a superset of the previous editions from which you could use whichever pieces make sense for your game. It already puts stuff like AP bidding that HQ2 dropped back on the table. Referring to or quoting things specifically from HW or HQ1 that aren't replicated in the SRD would still be off limits, but as written your own implementation of things in the older style should be OK. (Unless it's not. 🤷‍♂️)

JonL: Please read my response in the kind and calm manner I am writing it with. You seem to be raising problems when there really aren't any. The spirit of the terms is very clear to the vast majority of people. We could possibly come up with 50-100 pages of excruciatingly exact terms and conditions, but that just isn't worth it, and would probably only lead to complaints that it is all too complex and time consuming to comply with. Being compliant with the Questworlds ruleset or the HeroQuest Glorantha ruleset isn't that tough at all. They are, after all, rules light storytelling systems. Updating any HW or HQ1 material to QW/HQG should be quick and easy.

As Nick has also pointed out, the HQG/QW offerings in the Jonstown Compendium don't sell very well at all compared to the RQC/RQG offerings. Alas, but there are very very few people actively playing Hero Wars or HQ1 any more, regardless of how much you may or may not love those rulesets. Mental contortions relating to the QW SRD just aren't worth it.

Lastly, as always, please remember that we are not out to screw over Community Content authors or fan authors in general. We have CC ambassadors, plus other Chaosium staff, who will happily help creatives comply with our content requirements. If you doubt how easy it is to worth with us, or how successful the process is, please ask some of the existing CC creatives. They are quite active in a number of places, especially on Facebook, where there are groups dedicated to both the Miskatonic Repository and the Jonstown Compendium. 

[Ian A. Thomson]

Probably a 'Doh!' answer to this question, but I have to ask. :)

Who do the Zebra Cavalry of Pavis City worship while Joraz Kyrem is still alive? I may even have answered this in my own writings somewhere, but can't currently locate that?

In my Glorantha once he has apostetized they immediately start a cult to worship him, that is a combination of whatever their original worship form was with Pavis religious edges

I have a feeling that Greg answered this by saying the Firehorse or something, but sadly have no record of that particular conversation

Edited March 28, 2022 by Ian Thomson

[Joerg]

14 hours ago, Ian Thomson said:

Probably a 'Doh!' answer to this question, but I have to ask. 🙂

Who do the Zebra Cavalry of Pavis City worship while Joraz Kyrem is still alive? I may even have answered this in my own writings somewhere, but can't currently locate that?

One possibility: The Zebra Founder, of which Joraz is the avatar. David Scott went into a little bit of detail on this in episode 9 of the God Learners podcast.

 

14 hours ago, Ian Thomson said:

In my Glorantha once he has apostetized they immediately start a cult to worship him, that is a combination of whatever their original worship form was with Pavis religious edges

Another possibility is the oddity of the "Great Living Hero", a Second Age Orlanthi magic deifying a living and deserving hero, starting with Hardros Hardslaughter, the perpretator of the Tax Slaughter, a feat that would previously have won him high kingship, but the ruling priests of Orlanthland found this other way to reward him.

(All of this happened around the same years that a few people studied dragonewt mysticism using Auld Wyrmish and weird mystical dancing in the wilderness, the Hunting and Waltzing bands. The EWF inherited this practice, but the Old Day Traditionalists and the Hendriki independents had it, too, and several such individuals from very different backgrounds participated side by side in the Machine Wars. Including Varankol the Mangler, the founder of the boar-tusked Tusk Riders, who represented the EWF.)

 

Joraz may have been steeped in Issaries magics - possibly the God Learner version, as his Pure Horse People had been the protectors of Robcradle - but he was a Yelmic king of an Orlanthi city.

 

14 hours ago, Ian Thomson said:

I have a feeling that Greg answered this by saying the Firehorse or something, but sadly have no record of that particular conversation

Again, listen to David Scott's insights.

https://godlearners.com/episode-9-nomad-gods-part-1/

[Ian A. Thomson]

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

One possibility: The Zebra Founder, of which Joraz is the avatar. David Scott went into a little bit of detail on this in episode 9 of the God Learners podcast.

Again, listen to David Scott's insights.

https://godlearners.com/episode-9-nomad-gods-part-1/

I will totally check this out in case there's anything cool I can incorporate into the write-up. I have found the notes I co-wrote with Greg and am writing them up now. With the additional info that someone can be worshipped while they are still alive, this now makes complete sense and is fitting in nicely.

[Akhôrahil]

On 3/28/2022 at 2:10 AM, Ian Thomson said:

Who do the Zebra Cavalry of Pavis City worship while Joraz Kyrem is still alive? I may even have answered this in my own writings somewhere, but can't currently locate that?

There could potentially be a hero cult of him while alive?

[Ian A. Thomson]

57 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

There could potentially be a hero cult of him while alive?

This is what we are going with :)

[soltakss]

On 3/28/2022 at 1:10 AM, Ian Thomson said:

Who do the Zebra Cavalry of Pavis City worship while Joraz Kyrem is still alive? I may even have answered this in my own writings somewhere, but can't currently locate that?

They might still worship some of the Pure Horse deities or Heroes.

Alternatively, once he creates the Pure Horse Tribe and integrates it into Prax, women could worship Eiritha. Men can only worship Waha if they are descended from Waha, so Joraz Kyrem might have to HeroQuest to prove that he is a descendant of Waha, otherwise that cult is closed to them.

 

[Ian A. Thomson]

6 minutes ago, soltakss said:

They might still worship some of the Pure Horse deities or Heroes.

Alternatively, once he creates the Pure Horse Tribe and integrates it into Prax, women could worship Eiritha. Men can only worship Waha if they are descended from Waha, so Joraz Kyrem might have to HeroQuest to prove that he is a descendant of Waha, otherwise that cult is closed to them.

 

Interesting

Would you be open to write up a little heroquest outline about that proving of Wahaness? :)

Bearing in mind that I am definitely going with the majority of men worshipping Joraz, since this is one of the pieces Greg assisted me to write

Also, if men typically worship Joraz, with a minority also initiates of Orlanth, Stormbull and Odayla, my sense is that a lot of women would also be in the same boat, since they are a martial people. However, yes a significant chunk of the women might also worship a female deity. Would there be a weird problem to have a load of women worshipping Eiritha, and very few men worshipping Waha?

Edited March 31, 2022 by Ian Thomson

[soltakss]

10 minutes ago, Ian Thomson said:

Would you be open to write up a little heroquest outline about that proving of Wahaness? 🙂

I can add it to my list of things to do.

10 minutes ago, Ian Thomson said:

Bearing in mind that I am definitely going with the majority of men worshipping Joraz, since this is one of the pieces Greg assisted me to write

That might be a good way of doing it. Men worship Joraz but everyone knows that Joraz proved he is descended from Waha, so Joraz cultists can be seen as a Waha subcult, without having to join the nomad cult.

[Darius West]

I am looking forwards to finding out what Whitebull New Pavis is like. 🙂

For extra credit, include info about Iffinbix. 😁

Edited April 2, 2022 by Darius West