Good Light / Fire cult compatible with Humakht?

[Rodney Dangerduck]

Our Sartarite (Malani tribe) Humakt PC has a high Fire rune, and would like to join a fire cult.  Yelmalio / Elmal feels "off" to me, though I could be wrong.  Any suggestions?

[Joerg]

Gustbran. The smiths and cremators are quite closely associated to various activities of the Humakt cult.

[David Scott]

The Lowfire subcult of Gustbran, worshiped by potters and bronze-workers. Teaches craft skills, has limited common magic, but initiates have access to enchantments. Has only God-talkers as Rune levels. Associated with Ernalda, Issaries and Lodril. For the Malani, the nearest guild will be in Jonstown (guild = cult).

[svensson]

Depends on the character's activity.

If he's a crafter, Gustbran. If he's a warrior, Elmal. Remember, Elmal's main focus is the stalwart protector and patron of horses. He's not a watered-down Yelmalio or Yelm analogue. Elmal is entirely Orlanthi in its cultural basis.

So your Malani player can emphasize any of those aspects: Spearman, Archer, Protector, or Horseman.

[Jeff]

7 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Our Sartarite (Malani tribe) Humakt PC has a high Fire rune, and would like to join a fire cult.  Yelmalio / Elmal feels "off" to me, though I could be wrong.  Any suggestions?

Remember if you want to belong to multiple cults, each cult needs to be at least mutually friendly. Humakt tends to be neutral to almost everyone (except Orlanth).

[Rodney Dangerduck]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

Remember if you want to belong to multiple cults, each cult needs to be at least mutually friendly. Humakt tends to be neutral to almost everyone (except Orlanth).

Unfortunately, we originally treated "requires that the cults be compatible" as neutral or better, not friendly.  In practice, it has worked out as friendly or better.  With the possible exception or house rule that Elmal, the term we use for the Lightbringer friendly version of Yelmalio, YGMV, is friendly to LM.  I think we can change to the stricter "friendly or better" ruling.

In the upcoming cults book, are any cults friendly to Humakt, other than Orlanth?  (and Yinkin - why is that?) 

Added Note - I see Gustbran listed in a few responses above.  Thanks

Edited September 16, 2022 by Rodney Dangerduck

[French Desperate WindChild]

4 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Unfortunately, we treated "requires that the cults be compatible" as neutral or better, not friendly

Do the same. I even believed that it was « canon »

if not how to become initiate to an unknown cult in a strange land

if not how a shaman of storm bull can be initiate of aranea ? 😛

i will stay with neutral (but as always playing some priests issues to accept it, pc must convince both old and new cults)

[Lordabdul]

2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Unfortunately, we originally treated "requires that the cults be compatible" as neutral or better, not friendly. 

It hasn't come up yet in my games, but that was my assumption too.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Lordabdul

[Eff]

12 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Our Sartarite (Malani tribe) Humakt PC has a high Fire rune, and would like to join a fire cult.  Yelmalio / Elmal feels "off" to me, though I could be wrong.  Any suggestions?

Hmmm. Are they looking to do so for more mechanical reasons or more purely story reasons? Are they an ascetic Humakti, more focused on combat, or do they dip their finger in the well of Truth magic? Because one option (apart from homebrewing up your own Star Captain that synchs up with Humakt easily) is Lodril. Not particularly ascetic, but Lodril's volcanic fury is similarly built around control and repression leading up to outbursts of fury (as in the Smoldering Rebellion spell) and so there's some overlap you might not expect from a surface reading. 

And of course, Lodril does have a role as an intermediary via his position as a source of overwhelming might that can force people to stop fighting and settle down. 

[Jeff]

4 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Do the same. I even believed that it was « canon »

if not how to become initiate to an unknown cult in a strange land

if not how a shaman of storm bull can be initiate of aranea ? 😛

i will stay with neutral (but as always playing some priests issues to accept it, pc must convince both old and new cults)

The requirement that you can only initiate into friendly or associated cults goes back at least to Cults of Terror. So 1981.

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, Eff said:

Hmmm. Are they looking to do so for more mechanical reasons or more purely story reasons? Are they an ascetic Humakti, more focused on combat, or do they dip their finger in the well of Truth magic? 

The Malani are known as the sword tribe and tend to Humakt worship.

[Bill the barbarian]

10 minutes ago, Jeff said:

The requirement that you can only initiate into friendly or associated cults goes back at least to Cults of Terror. So 1981.

I seem to recall reading that... it was a lot o years ago but it seemed to me that greater than neutrality was required to allow for a devotee to worship more than one god at greater than a lay membership ( I assume one can attend many services as a member of the laity) and I was wondering what others had seen that allowed neutrality to open doors for dual initiateship. 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

The requirement that you can only initiate into friendly or associated cults goes back at least to Cults of Terror. So 1981.

Now that you point it out, absolutely true - also in Cults of Prax.

It would have been nice for the same, nice and very clear language from CoP, to be included in RQG instead of the looser and less clear "compatible".

Also note that the Cult Compatibility Table has changed considerably since CoP.

[Erol of Backford]

6 hours ago, Jeff said:

Remember if you want to belong to multiple cults, each cult needs to be at least mutually friendly. Humakt tends to be neutral to almost everyone (except Orlanth).

2 hours ago, Eff said:

Because one option is Lodril.

Humakt/Lodri? How would a spear/sword combination work? Has anyone tried that? I prefer that combination over Humakt/Gustbran as the PC is an Agimori who grows up in Backford and only finds Lodri later on?

[Joerg]

Where are spirit cults on this demand of "friendly relationship"? Could a Humakti pledge to worship Firshala?

[svensson]

Well, Firshala is... obscure...  to say the least. Besides that, she's a location cult and that location is in the Elder Wilds of Balazar.

But Orgavale Summer or Beneventos Dragonslayer [from the GM Screen Pack] might be real possibilities if you're looking into very local spirit cult worship. In the case of Beneventos, you'd have to make up a cult using Orgavale as a template, but given the power of his spear it's not unreasonable for Beneventos' cult to have a significant Fire presence. I would ask whether or not a small cult can have two Elemental Runes, however.

I don't see Lodril as a good option because he's a very Pelorian and Esrolian god, with a subcult of Agimori in Prax. From a cultural standpoint, he's as foreign as the Red Goddess to Hendriking /Sartarite cultural Orlanthi worshipers. Seems to me that the locals would be more accepting of a Yelmalio worshiper in their midst than a clansman rejecting the Storm pantheon AND Hendriking/Sartarite cultural roots both. At the very minimum, Yelmalio has familiar customs and rituals the character's clan and tribe can work with.

[Manunancy]

Another point in favor of Yelmalio is that he has the Truth rune too.

But with Humakt being more a warrior cult and Yelmalio being more a soldier's cult, I'd expect him to get quite a hefty share of hazing and latrine/nightwatch/anything unpleasant duty to break him to the mold of 'team playing, not lonely heroics'. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Manunancy

[Jeff]

19 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Now that you point it out, absolutely true - also in Cults of Prax.

It would have been nice for the same, nice and very clear language from CoP, to be included in RQG instead of the looser and less clear "compatible".

Also note that the Cult Compatibility Table has changed considerably since CoP.

Not all that much. Honestly not that much has changed since the revised Cult Compatibility Chart was published in the RQ Companion. It just has gotten much bigger.

[Erol of Backford]

So it is/would be possible for a charcater to be an initiate of both Humakt and Lodril even though unlikely per existing rules now? Just curious and thank you as always

[Kloster]

On 9/16/2022 at 5:49 PM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Unfortunately, we originally treated "requires that the cults be compatible" as neutral or better, not friendly.

This is also what we understood.

[Soccercalle]

In my Six Seasons of Sartar-based campaign I had an Humakti warrior who was also the daughter of the red smith. She initiated to Gustbran after her fathers death as a way of honoring him and his ways. 

[PhilHibbs]

20 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

So it is/would be possible for a charcater to be an initiate of both Humakt and Lodril even though unlikely per existing rules now? Just curious and thank you as always

In the Chaosium house campaign Storm Bull and Aranea are ok, and Orlanth and The Sun Dragon are ok, so why not?

Edited September 18, 2022 by PhilHibbs

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 9/16/2022 at 10:14 PM, Jeff said:

The requirement that you can only initiate into friendly or associated cults goes back at least to Cults of Terror. So 1981.

i don"t doubt about it (I haven't cult of terror or any EN RQ material from these days )

my only book is "Les dieux de Glorantha" (Oriflam FR)

It is said :

"une personne peut s'initier à plus d'un culte, tant qu'elle maintient les restrictions (y compris le don de temps et de revenus) de tous ses cultes. Aucun de ces cultes ne peut être hostile ou ennemi l'un de l'autre"

 

so for the bold part, "None of these cults can be hostile or ennemy to each other" (hope I translate well)

3  points then :

1) for once I'm able to remember well the rules I read years ago ^^

2) that's why I now buy only english material, to know what is the original version so what I can discuss with others

3) I think however that the french version is more interesting. it allows GM some licence to decide if yes or not a pc can or not be initiate in a second cult.

 

On 9/16/2022 at 11:43 PM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

It would have been nice for the same, nice and very clear language from CoP, to be included in RQG instead of the looser and less clear "compatible".

disagree there 🙂

simple rules (like friendly, neutral, ...) seems to me objectionable.

for me "compatible" is a great word ! It gives not a complex set of rules to determine what is acceptable or notIt allows gm  (as "the priests", so another gm would decide otherwise) to define if yes or this specific cult is specific with this specific other.

Few examples :

is Yelmalio and Issaries compatible ? I would say yes (and it is : we have a npc in the rqg core book)

is Yelmalio and Orlanth compatible ? I would say yes as we have sartarite clans worshipping the horse sun god. It would be difficult to not accept your clanmate, or your sibling, in your cult just because they joined the other one.

Same for Orlanth and Argan Argar ? I would say yes as we have sartarite troll friends clans

More exotic :

What about Ty Kora Tek and Morasoma (Comb and Bread) : I m prety sure that a near priestess in the white bull campaign would enjoy to join it !

or Lhankor Mhy and Hobimarong (maybe it is the same god, after all who knows !)

is Chalana arroy and Orlanth adventurous compatible ? Will you, as a wind, lord welcome in your warriors rank a healer unable to fight ? (the question is complex: of course you may say that fly and other spells can be usefull for a healer, but the adventurous subcult is not a spell provider, it dedicates its efforts on fight and destruction. It is happy to have the great healer as friend, but as friend, not as member). Simpler with orlanth thunderous by the way

 

In my examples I would consider that even friendly cults may be incompatible, just because their perspectives, their values are different.

But in other hand, not friendly cults may be compatible

so the canon rules will be in the so expected rqg cults books but in any case, my own rules would be "it depends"

[PhilHibbs]

9 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

In my examples I would consider that even friendly cults may be incompatible, just because their perspectives, their values are different.

But in other hand, not friendly cults may be compatible.

Marvelous. Very insightful, thank you!

[Kloster]

12 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

"une personne peut s'initier à plus d'un culte, tant qu'elle maintient les restrictions (y compris le don de temps et de revenus) de tous ses cultes. Aucun de ces cultes ne peut être hostile ou ennemi l'un de l'autre"

 

so for the bold part, "None of these cults can be hostile or ennemy to each other" (hope I translate well)

English original text is: 'A person may be an initiate of more than one cult, so long as he maintains all the requirements (including tithing and time) for all his cults. None of this cults may be hostile or unfriendly to another.'

That means 1) that your back translation from french is ok and2) that neutral cults are (or more properly were) compatible. This clearly contradicts RQ2 statement, as expressed by Jeff, but also contradicts Jeff that situation has not changed. The problem I see is that RQ3's matrix is about pantheons and not individual cults.

12 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

In my examples I would consider that even friendly cults may be incompatible, just because their perspectives, their values are different.

On this, I fully agree.

12 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

But in other hand, not friendly cults may be compatible

If I stay with RQ3's ruling, I agree, because neutral cults may have compatible beliefs and world views, but I can't see hostile or enemy cults being compatible, even if with exactly the same beliefs.