RQ3 Titles Availability

[svensson]

So is there ever going to be a chance of RQ Renaissance RQ3 titles ever being available? River of Cradles, Sun County, etc.?

Yes, the rules have been superseded, but there was some VERY high quality writing in them and a lot of good scenarios just asking for conversion to RQG.

[Kloster]

I hope so.

[Nick Brooke]

Chaosium would like to do it (at least for the non-reprint stuff): it's just a question of priorities. (There are no rights issues, or anything nasty like that)

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Nick Brooke

[Soccercalle]

Most of the information are available in other books so it would be possibly to "just" reprint the scenarios and some NPC information. That would also make it easier - if anyone cares - to update the NPCs with passions and runes. 

I dont really care about passions and runes for NPCs when I run adventures. You dont need "a number" to know that Vega Goldbreath has Devotion Yelmalio. You can keep that in your head when you are GMing.

IF (a huge IF) Chaosium are going to reprint a complete book it should be the Dorastor-book. That information is not available in other books. But you dont need "River of Cradles" if you own the Pavis and Borderlands books.

If (a certain if) Chaosium needs to prioritize I really want them to speed up the process of publishing new source books and the GMs Guide with hero questing rules. That is much more important than republishing Renassaince books.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Soccercalle

[Kloster]

3 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

But you dont need "River of Cradles" if you own the Pavis and Borderlands books.

This is a big if. RQ2 books were very hard to obtain in France, and almost none of my fellow RQers has any of them. In addition, You would get the campaign, which is present nowhere else.

3 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

If (a certain if) Chaosium needs to prioritize I really want them to speed up the process of publishing new source books and the GMs Guide with hero questing rules. That is much more important than republishing Renassaince books.

Completely agree.

[Soccercalle]

38 minutes ago, Kloster said:

This is a big if. RQ2 books were very hard to obtain in France, and almost none of my fellow RQers has any of them. In addition, You would get the campaign, which is present nowhere else.

Completely agree.

You can buy those RQ2 books as pdf:s or print on demand at the Chaosium webpage. They are hard to find on the site but you write "Pavis", "Rubble" or "Borderlands" in the search field. 

[Kloster]

4 minutes ago, Soccercalle said:

You can buy those RQ2 books as pdf:s or print on demand at the Chaosium webpage. They are hard to find on the site but you write "Pavis", "Rubble" or "Borderlands" in the search field. 

I know, but I already have them (purchased from Esdevium games some 40 years ago).

What I explained is that for french players, who for most of them discovered RQ with Oriflam's RQ3, those have never been available.

[Joerg]

20 minutes ago, Kloster said:

I know, but I already have them (purchased from Esdevium games some 40 years ago).

What I explained is that for french players, who for most of them discovered RQ with Oriflam's RQ3, those have never been available.

The French complete set translations of RQ3 were a luxury shared only by the Finnish and maybe the Japanese (at least for the Avalon Hill range created by Chaosium).

RQ2 has not been published translated into any language other than British English. The Glorantha Classics series by Moondesign made the Chaosium boxed sets for Glorantha (other than Troll Pak) available, rather shortly after the end of the RQ3 Renaissance, filling that limbo alongside the fanzine, mailing list and convention scene. Pavis and Big Rubble in 1999, admittedly limited to 1000 printed copies and no pdf release on the horizon, but available by mail order, and at several of the themed conventions e.g. in Leicester and Castle Stahleck, and I would guess at Chimeriades, too. By the time those copies had sold out the pdf option was on the horizon.

Foreign language players unwilling to face the difficulty of reading in English are bitten anyway unless your language licensee throws more resources at RQ than Chaosium does. When the language community comes up with good and playable content of their own, that will usually be contradicted by some English language information published later than the non-English material, and if produced by the official licensee, will leave that licensee in a quandary whether to translate that newer English language material.

More often, such material will be published as community content, once upon a time in fanzines or convention booklets.

[svensson]

Well I own most if not all the AH RQ3 titles, but through use have gotten rather battered and 'well-loved-through-use'.

The titles I'm thinking of are River of Cradles, Sun County, Shadows on the Borderlands, Dorastor Land of Doom, and Strangers in Prax. Some of the smaller folios [Haunted Ruins, Into the Troll Realms] would also be nice to see. I understand that Snakepipe is due for a 'super dungeon' treatment, which will be fun, and Apple Lane has been updated already.

[Joerg]

13 minutes ago, svensson said:

Well I own most if not all the AH RQ3 titles, but through use have gotten rather battered and 'well-loved-through-use'.

The titles I'm thinking of are River of Cradles, Sun County, Shadows on the Borderlands, Dorastor Land of Doom, and Strangers in Prax. Some of the smaller folios [Haunted Ruins, Into the Troll Realms] would also be nice to see. I understand that Snakepipe is due for a 'super dungeon' treatment, which will be fun, and Apple Lane has been updated already.

River of Cradles needs only the River Voices campaign to be lifted out of the rest, which is reprints of parts of the Pavis Box and Cults of Prax adapted to RQ3 rules. The River Voices campaign character stats might need adaptation to either RQG or RQ Classic. The smaller folios are basically reprints of Troll Pak or standalone RQ2 scenarios, with the RQ3 Gloranthan bestiary containing a few creatures that might need rescuing.

Minaryth Purple's yellow page treatise on the trolls from Troll Gods, the Mostali plot outline in Elder Secrets and maybe a little more of the dragonewt caravan than just the description of the illustraiton in the Guide might also deserve rescuing from the Chaosium-authored RQ3 line. And a Gloranthan adaptation of the campaign used in both RQ3 Vikings and Land of Ninja.

[Jeff]

It is very unlikely that we do any sort of RQ3 "classics" treatment in the near future. Although RQ2 is backwards compatible with RQG, RQ3 requires a lot more work. As a result, it is more of a different product line than RQ2/3. 

So for the foreseeable future, you are going to have to look at discount shops and eBay for RQ3.

[Soccercalle]

I think most players and GM today can handle English good enough for playing games. I live in Sweden and are very glad that the Swedish licensee is going to create new content (about Talastar) instead of translating old books. When I GM I try to translate most game terms to Swedish when I talk to the players. But I dont need the books to be translated. And I am not better in English than the average Swede or Finn (maybe a bit better than the average Frenchman).

[Rick Meints]

6 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

If (a certain if) Chaosium needs to prioritize I really want them to speed up the process of publishing new source books and the GMs Guide with hero questing rules. That is much more important than republishing Renassaince books.

The reprinting of older material isn't done by the teams working on creating new material. For example, Jeff, Jason, and the rest of the RQG team spent virtually no time on getting the RQ Classics back into print as PDF and POD. The same is true for Call of Cthulhu Classic, which only took a few hours of Mike Mason's time, and a bit of Nick Nacario's time when he was "between" current projects. That's one of the reasons that getting older material back into print is slow and irregular in output. We have no intention of slowing down the production of new material for any of our game lines.

I feel it needs stating again. All the Avalon Hill RQ3 titles mentioned in this thread are usually available on the secondary market at non-insane prices ($50-$75 on average) if you are attentive and patient. That's not as easy as just going to Chaosium's website to order them at your convenience, of course. 

[soltakss]

9 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

But you dont need "River of Cradles" if you own the Pavis and Borderlands books.

Except for the scenario that introduces the River Voices.

 

[DreadDomain]

10 hours ago, Jeff said:

It is very unlikely that we do any sort of RQ3 "classics" treatment in the near future. Although RQ2 is backwards compatible with RQG, RQ3 requires a lot more work. As a result, it is more of a different product line than RQ2/3. 

I am genuinely puzzled by this statement. Cross compatibility of scenarios is mainly driven by how character sheets can be interpreted. I can crack open any RQ3 scenario on my shelves, look at a character sheet and use it on the fly. Some values have computed differently (SR, hit points in the case of RQ3) but so what? They are close enough that you can use them as is.

The inverse is also true, I can open any of the RQG scenarios and play them in RQ3 if I so desire.

[Nick Brooke]

[MOB]

21 hours ago, Jeff said:

It is very unlikely that we do any sort of RQ3 "classics" treatment in the near future. Although RQ2 is backwards compatible with RQG, RQ3 requires a lot more work. As a result, it is more of a different product line than RQ2/3. 

10 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

I am genuinely puzzled by this statement. Cross compatibility of scenarios is mainly driven by how character sheets can be interpreted. I can crack open any RQ3 scenario on my shelves, look at a character sheet and use it on the fly. Some values have computed differently (SR, hit points in the case of RQ3) but so what? They are close enough that you can use them as is.

As Jeff notes, RQG <-> RQ2 are very much backwards/forwards compatible. So getting RQ Classic back into release made a lot of sense to us. Apart from the issues of bandwidth that Rick alluded to above, there are several reasons why a releasing "RQ3 Classic" line does not:

1. In complexity, RQ3 is a step further in difference. We want to lower the barriers to entry for new fans, not raise them.
2. Until the "RQ Renaissance" in 1992, much of the Gloranthan material released for RQ3 was reprinted material. You can get a lot of that material as presented originally in RQ Classic, so reissuing it again in their RQ3 format seems redundant, especially as, for whatever reason, there were literally no all-new Gloranthan scenarios released until Sun County (1992, fully eight years after the release of RQ3).
3. As Rick notes, with a bit of patience you can still find copies of titles from the RQ3 line for decent prices on the secondary market. 
4. The "Fantasy Earth" RQ3 releases (e.g. Vikings, Land of Ninja) are a separate issue. Our focus for now for RuneQuest is very much "Roleplaying Adventures in Glorantha."

What is more likely to happen is selected RQ3 scenarios from the RQ Renaissance period (Sun County, River of Cradles, Shadows on the Borderlands, Strangers in Prax, Dorastor) getting upgraded for RQG. I have some ideas on that. But again, this would not be work carried out by the core RQ team. Maybe one day I will have some time. 

[svensson]

I'd assumed that the 'Gateway' stuff [Vikings, Ninja, RQ Cities, etc.] wouldn't get reprinted. I'd asked a question earlier about a 'genericized' RQ and was told that was a no-go.

I fully respect the idea that RQ3 is a major conversion job, especially with the high-speed /low-drag stat blocks in several of the supplements. Just converting some of the NPCs and beasts in  'Strangers in Prax' would be a major headache, much less the Dorastor bad guys.

Many of the commentators are absolutely right that reprinting the River Voices campaign is all that's really needed for River of Cradles, although the Heroquest rules for the Cleansed One subcult would be a VERY welcome addition. I understood RQ3's reluctance to deal with HeroQuests as a mechanic, but it was almost unfair to dangle that bait without giving us the fish! 😁 I mean, who wouldn't want to know about an HQ that could remove Chaos Taint?!

I think Sun County and Shadows on the Borderlands would be the most valuable conversions /reprints. Dyskund Caverns is a wonderful example of just how vicious the Thanatar cult is, and the whole disempowering of Muria plot was pretty frikkin' good too.

[DreadDomain]

You may have misunderstood my comment. I was not commenting on why and if the reprint of some RQ3 material might or might not happen.

I was only referring to the bolded part below (and here I am assuming, perhaps wrongly, that Jeff meant "RQ3 is more of a different product line than RQ2/G". If it is not a typo and he really meant that "RQG is more of a different product line than RQ2/3", then I can only say "yup, reprinting old stuff is clearly a different endeavor than supporting the current edition, which should take precedence", and go back to my corner.

On 11/5/2022 at 1:58 AM, Jeff said:

It is very unlikely that we do any sort of RQ3 "classics" treatment in the near future. Although RQ2 is backwards compatible with RQG, RQ3 requires a lot more work. As a result, it is more of a different product line than RQ2/3. 

10 hours ago, MOB said:

As Jeff notes, RQG <-> RQ2 are very much backwards/forwards compatible.

If by that you mean it is easy to use a RQ2 scenario with RQG, and vice versa, I absolutely agree. My point is that it is no more difficult to do so with a RQ3 scenario. Pretending RQ3 "is more of a different product line" is pure fallacy. 

If by that you mean that RQG is a soft evolution of RQ2, with 80 to 90% retained and some additional rules added and others refreshed, then we will have to strongly disagree. Character creation is very different, the skill list is different, that attack, parry economy and results are different, the effect of damage on hit location is different, the weapon stats are different. We could go on and lists loads of areas where RQG and RQ2 are different. And the same could be said of the differences between RQG and RQ3 (all the above applies). Is it a bad thing? Absolutely not. RQG is better for it.

We can call the current edition RQ4, RQ7 or RQG but it is definitely not RQ2.5. And it's a better game for it.

What RQG does is carrying the spirit and essence of what made RQ2 and the RQ3 renaissance great. And it's a better game for it.

10 hours ago, MOB said:

1. Until the "RQ Renaissance" in 1992, much of the Gloranthan material released for RQ3 was reprinted material. You can get a lot of that material as presented originally in RQ Classic, so reissuing it again in their RQ3 format seems redundant, especially as, for whatever reason, there were literally no all-new Gloranthan scenarios released until Sun County (1992, fully eight years after the release of RQ3).
2. As Rick notes, with a bit of patience you can still find copies of titles from the RQ3 line for decent prices on the secondary market. 
3. The "Fantasy Earth" RQ3 releases (e.g. Vikings, Land of Ninja) are a separate issue. Our focus for now for RuneQuest is very much "Roleplaying Adventures in Glorantha."

Note that I was not commenting nor even disputing any of this but thank you for the clarification. Also note that even if I'd like to see some of the reprints go live, and would buy them, the originals are all nicely sitting on my shelves and it's not like I am waiting for them with any kind or urgency.

I'll go back in my corner now.

[MOB]

4 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

If by that you mean it is easy to use a RQ2 scenario with RQG, and vice versa, I absolutely agree. My point is that it is no more difficult to do so with a RQ3 scenario. 

There we will have to disagree.

4 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

What RQG does is carrying the spirit and essence of what made RQ2 and the RQ3 renaissance great. And it's a better game for it.

But here we do definitely agree!

15 hours ago, svensson said:

I think Sun County and Shadows on the Borderlands would be the most valuable conversions /reprints. Dyskund Caverns is a wonderful example of just how vicious the Thanatar cult is, and the whole disempowering of Muria plot was pretty frikkin' good too.

Agreed too. Sadly, the "RuneQuest Renaissance" was all-too-brief - just six books in about two years - but as Shannon Appelcline notes in Designers & Dragons, they were the best official books for RuneQuest 3rd edition, and are still highly regarded by those who remember them. I'm proud of being a part of that, and recall fondly working with Ken 'Rune Czar' Rolston. Combined with all the wonderful stuff going on with Reaching Moon Megacorp, it certainly was a golden period for Gloranthan fandom that was alas over before we knew it. But we're in a real Golden Age for RuneQuest and Glorantha now, and it would be great to bring some of that RQ Renaissance material back for new eyes, just as has been done in the Jonstown Compendium with some of the RMM stuff.

[svensson]

Oh, we are definitely in a wonderful time to be a Gloranthaphile. Many questions have been answered, many more posed, great interest is generated and there's something for old grogs and brand new RuneQuesters to do and enjoy. There are several other worthy games that I'm a fan of that I wish were as resurgent [Tekumel, for example].

As for RQ3 being easily RQG compatible, well, I'm gonna disagree too. Converting Sorcery between the two would be a major headache, and if you were to give many NPC's a one-to-one credit for their RQ3 one-use Divine spells, you'd end up with some initiates with a POW of 25 who knows every single special Rune spell of a major cult and all the subcults as well!

[Bill the barbarian]

4 hours ago, MOB said:

they were the best official books for RuneQuest 3rd edition, and are still highly regarded by those who remember them.

Very true, my table loved them!

 

4 hours ago, MOB said:

I'm proud of being a part of that, and recall fondly working with Ken 'Rune Czar' Rolston.

I think he went onto have a small career after RQ... 😉

4 minutes ago, svensson said:

Oh, we are definitely in a wonderful time to be a Gloranthaphile.

NIce, svennson. May as well acknowledge the great new works!

[DreadDomain]

5 hours ago, svensson said:

As for RQ3 being easily RQG compatible, well, I'm gonna disagree too. Converting Sorcery between the two would be a major headache,

This, I absolutely concede. Without access ro the RQ3 rulebook, a character with sorcery in a scenario would be very difficult, if not impossible to use.

5 hours ago, svensson said:

and if you were to give many NPC's a one-to-one credit for their RQ3 one-use Divine spells, you'd end up with some initiates with a POW of 25 who knows every single special Rune spell of a major cult and all the subcults as well!

Except that there is no reason to do that. The character would have the spells they have and the POW they have, as written on the character write-up. 

[Godlearner]

12 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

This, I absolutely concede. Without access ro the RQ3 rulebook, a character with sorcery in a scenario would be very difficult, if not impossible to use.

Having done such convertions, I would say no. It is not too bad.

[metcalph]

There's really only two sorcerers in RQ3 - Halcyon vor Enkorth and Arlaten.  I wouldn't convert the first and the second has a couple of background issues.