Size of gods and goddesses of Glorantha

[Zulfikar Zaban]

I love my big beautiful volumes of the Guide to Glorantha. That said I would love to have ten more Runequest books on my shelf, and it will be easier to go to the specific book I am looking for. I've been most excited about the Cults and Gods of Glorantha and am really excited for more content, and the more information and more pages provided, the more I am excited. I love how fully fleshed out Glorantha is as a world and the artwork that has been put together for RQG really brings it to life and I can't wait to see what Chaosium has laid out, I'm sure it will be brilliant.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Zulfikar Zaban

[Bill the barbarian]

Agreed!

[g33k]

8 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

... But didn't Jason (or was it someone else at Chaosium) that recently wrote that you lost some months when you went from 2+1 to 10 books...

I would presume the lost time was mostly layout.
There was likely a non-trivial amount of 2-volume layout that had to be scrapped -- and re-done from scratch -- in order to move those 2 volumes to 9 volumes.
(I think the Prosopaedia stayed largely the same between the 2+1 and 10-volume projects).

[g33k]

31 minutes ago, Zulfikar Zaban said:

I love my big beautiful volumes of the Guide to Glorantha. That said I would love to have ten more Runequest books on my shelf, and it will be easier to go to the specific book I am looking for. I've been most excited about the Cults and Gods of Glorantha and am really excited for more content, and the more information and more pages provided, the more I am excited. I love how fully fleshed out Glorantha is as a world and the artwork that has been put together for RQG really brings it to life and I can't wait to see what Chaosium has laid out, I'm sure it will be brilliant.

Part of me -- OK, probably the bigger part of me (and no remarks about my waistline from the peanut gallery!) -- wants another massive Guide-style 2-volume slipcase set.

Make no mistake -- that was what we were looking at!  If you doubt:
- Chaosium has stated that *if* they were to revisit the Guide, they'd likely reformat it (away from the oversize volumes) into about 4 "normal RPG book" volumes.  of 256(ish) pages each (bigger than the Bestiary, not so big as the core-book).  Call it 1000+ pages for the project.
- of the 10 upcoming Cult volumes, all are expected to be 100+ pages; of the first 4 announced, all are 144+ pages; the scope here is at least as large as the Guide!

Elitist-nerd-me wanted a pantheon that would literally crush that of any other gameworld!   🤪
(to go alongside the  gameworld itself  that crushed all others)

Practical me smirked that insufferable smirk (that drives elitist-nerd-me absolutely crazy) and asked, deadpan, how often we'd be willing to haul 2 such slipcases around...

Practical me can be a dick sometimes (for that matter, so can elitist-nerd-me; so) .

Practical me also notes that we start getting the content sooner, via the multi-volume release (even re-doing layout):  the 2volume set couldn't be released until every last bit of art was complete; and (as @Zulfikar Zabansays) it's a bit more usable in discrete per-pantheon books; and there's a strong likelihood buyers would be discouraged from a $200ish Deities&Demigods set, vs just incrementally buying them per-book as-needed.

[Scornado]

But when will the first volumes be on sale; desperate minds want to know!

[DreadDomain]

I have no inside information but going to printer and getting shipped to all the warehouses is something measured in months. If the Aetherworks website is any indication, they currently have Regency Cthulhu in stock and they announce street dates for CoC Nameless Horrors (March), Rivers of London (April) and the Pendragon Starter Set (June). Based on this, not before Julyfor the first releases would be my guess.

[Scornado]

Maybe there will be PDFs before hard copy

[jajagappa]

1 minute ago, Scornado said:

Maybe there will be PDFs before hard copy

Chaosium has noted elsewhere that they have moved away from that model for multiple reasons. They will launch print and pdf at the same time.

[Scornado]

11 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Chaosium has noted elsewhere that they have moved away from that model for multiple reasons. They will launch print and pdf at the same time.

I was not aware of that - thanks

 

[Shiningbrow]

Given the sizes of those volumes, I'd like to see in addition to the long-form write-ups, some volumes of short-form write-ups, that are very RQ specific (rather than Glorantha generic), much like what we already have in the RQG. Just a basic outline of ranks and spells, and any other specific information that's vital to playing that cult.

[Soccercalle]

20 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

I have no inside information but going to printer and getting shipped to all the warehouses is something measured in months. If the Aetherworks website is any indication, they currently have Regency Cthulhu in stock and they announce street dates for CoC Nameless Horrors (March), Rivers of London (April) and the Pendragon Starter Set (June). Based on this, not before Julyfor the first releases would be my guess.

Jason (I think) made a post in December where he promised a lot of new Glorantha books in the "nearest months" so I hope that you are wrong. But wouldn't bet against you.

[Joerg]

7 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Given the sizes of those volumes, I'd like to see in addition to the long-form write-ups, some volumes of short-form write-ups, that are very RQ specific (rather than Glorantha generic), much like what we already have in the RQG. Just a basic outline of ranks and spells, and any other specific information that's vital to playing that cult.

Such as myths, the role in the world, cult structures? The elements that were missing in the three cults presented in RQ2 or in those in RQ3 Gods of Glorantha but are present in Cults of Prax?

 

[Jason Farrell]

1 hour ago, Soccercalle said:

Jason (I think) made a post in December where he promised a lot of new Glorantha books in the "nearest months" so I hope that you are wrong. But wouldn't bet against you.

They're coming out soon... as measured in geologic time.

[Rick Meints]

On 2/14/2023 at 12:03 PM, g33k said:

I would presume the lost time was mostly layout.
There was likely a non-trivial amount of 2-volume layout that had to be scrapped -- and re-done from scratch -- in order to move those 2 volumes to 9 volumes.
(I think the Prosopaedia stayed largely the same between the 2+1 and 10-volume projects).

Layout hadn't begun on the books (Prosopaedia being the exception, but unaffected) when the decision was made to switch from a slipcase set of 3 or so books to smaller page count books sold individually. Thus, little layout was scrapped. 

[g33k]

37 minutes ago, Rick Meints said:

Layout hadn't begun on the books (Prosopaedia being the exception, but unaffected) when the decision was made to switch from a slipcase set of 3 or so books to smaller page count books sold individually. Thus, little layout was scrapped. 

Thank you!
(Though I admit then to joining @Soccercallein wondering where the time was lost)

[DerKrieger]

This sounds great for the Gloranthaphiles amongst us but I imagine will be absolutely repulsive for more casual or prospective players. The GMing section of the Core book is already rather light and now for a setting so heavily focused on the gods we're breaking it into 10 separate books they would need to collect to have a complete list of their options. I would have to see the final version of how this actually comes to be but my first impression is far from a positive one.

Edited February 17, 2023 by DerKrieger
spelling

[Jason Farrell]

12 hours ago, DerKrieger said:

This sounds great for the Gloranthaphiles amongst us but I imagine will be absolutely repulsive for more casual or prospective players. The GMing section of the Core book is already rather light and now for a setting so heavily focused on the gods we're breaking it into 10 separate books they would need to collect to have a complete list of their options. I would have to see the final version of how this actually comes to be but my first impression is far from a positive one.

I am entirely unthrilled by the continued wait for these books, but I'm not at all sure that this will be less appealing for casual players.  If it had been released in one 3 volume set, as originally planned, the price point would have been prohibitive for anyone not already committed to Runequest (probably $200 or so).  I was prepared to pay that, but Johnny Curious probably wouldn't have been.  If these books ever come out (sigh), someone can lay down $20-$25 (pdf) and get several times more information than is currently available in RQG format.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Jason Farrell

[Shiningbrow]

On 2/16/2023 at 1:33 AM, Joerg said:

Such as myths, the role in the world, cult structures?

Myths should be an entirely separate thing.

Role in the world.... maybe a brief bit.

Cult structures... only what's sufficiently necessary.

I'm thinking from the perspective of something that's quick and easy to find information about a cult that someone might need to know - what spells are avalable, and to whom. What does it take to become a God Talker or Priest...

So that we don't have to wade through pages and pages of text to find this (or carry around).

[Joerg]

23 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Myths should be an entirely separate thing.

YRQMV. Presenting a deity just as a character template is somewhat beside the point IMO.

23 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Role in the world.... maybe a brief bit.

Cult structures... only what's sufficiently necessary.

I'm thinking from the perspective of something that's quick and easy to find information about a cult that someone might need to know - what spells are avalable, and to whom. What does it take to become a God Talker or Priest...

So that we don't have to wade through pages and pages of text to find this (or carry around).

Something like a set of quick reference cards? Sounds like a different product, really. Might be feasible.

[Shiningbrow]

19 hours ago, Joerg said:

Something like a set of quick reference cards? Sounds like a different product, really. Might be feasible.

Exactly! Which is why I think the Myths should be separate.

[Rick Meints]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:19 AM, DerKrieger said:

This sounds great for the Gloranthaphiles amongst us but I imagine will be absolutely repulsive for more casual or prospective players. The GMing section of the Core book is already rather light and now for a setting so heavily focused on the gods we're breaking it into 10 separate books they would need to collect to have a complete list of their options. I would have to see the final version of how this actually comes to be but my first impression is far from a positive one.

I would imagine that many gaming groups could easily get by with starting with just a single book or two of cults. Which one(s) would depend on the approximate nature and location of their campaign. It's pretty safe to say you don't need much if any info on the Sea Gods if you are adventuring in Pavis, nor would you need Western choices if playing in Sartar. If you aren't based in the Lunar empire you probably wouldn't need a Lunar Cults book, etc. 

My strong belief is that having to know everything before playing anything is fairly self-defeating. That would be like having to read and understand everything in the Guide to Glorantha before playing Apple Lane. I get that many people want to know a lot because there's a lot of cool info to read, but most of it doesn't have to used in playing a game or campaign.

[Scornado]

But Rick, when will the first volumes be available?  I am keen to give you my money!

[Brian Duguid]

15 minutes ago, Rick Meints said:

My strong belief is that having to know everything before playing anything is fairly self-defeating.

Absolutely. We're all successfully GMing games in RQ today without a GM's Guide. We have player characters who can play as members of up to 28 different cults (core book + bestiary) with sufficient rules and magic to be getting on with - and more if we use RQ Classic or other material. I'm in the "will probably buy everything" camp, and look forward to expanding our knowledge and opportunities. But each and every book in the Cults series will do that, we don't need them all to get value out of the first group to come out.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Brian Duguid

[Bill the barbarian]

On 2/14/2023 at 10:29 AM, g33k said:

and no remarks about my waistline

waistline, I thought that was the horizon!

 

1 hour ago, Rick Meints said:

I would imagine that many gaming groups could easily get by with starting with just a single book or two of cults. Which one(s) would depend on the approximate nature and location of their campaign. It's pretty safe to say you don't need much if any info on the Sea Gods if you are adventuring in Pavis, nor would you need Western choices if playing in Sartar. If you aren't based in the Lunar empire you probably wouldn't need a Lunar Cults book, etc. 

 

Our early games up here, in the 80s, did not suffer because we got it all wrong... nomadic wheels in Prax, etc. We had a blast anyway. Still playing and Gming today!

 

1 hour ago, Brian Duguid said:

Absolutely. We're all successfully GMing games in RQ today without a GM's Guide. We have player characters who can play as members of up to 28 different cults (core book + bestiary) with sufficient rules and magic to be getting on with - and more if we use RQ Classic or other material. I'm in the "will probably buy everything" camp, and look forward to expanding our knowledge and opportunities. But each and every book in the Cults series will do that, we don't need them all to get value out of the first group to come out.

Nice perspectives. 

[Jason Farrell]

Actively discouraging people from wanting new books for their chosen game system seems like a frankly baffling stance for a game company to take.  It's one thing for the random fan to do that (I've been told on here that "Orlanth" gives you everything you need, so I shouldn't care about any other cults, and I've been told that I should just use 20 year old rules), but it's quite another coming from the president of Chaosium.

The point is not that we can't play the game without these books.  The point is that we shouldn't have to, not when cults and heroquests are two of THE most fundamental things that make Glorantha unique compared to other settings/rulesets.

I expect to get people telling me I'm whining, I'm wrong, I'm dumb, etc but that's fine.  I'm very secure in feeling that it's a terrible idea to come out with a starter set in 2021 (and then discount it to 99 cents this year) and follow that up with nothing but a Weapon & Equipment book, while constantly delaying support for key elements of the setting and rules.  It's been frustrating enough for me that after a couple of years of being very in tune with what's going on in RQ and reading nothing but RQ, I've had to take a step back and largely disconnect from it.

Good news for Chaosium though: they're still my favorite game company, so I've stepped back from RQ and into the tentacled arms of my all time favorite, Call of Cthulhu.  I ran Full Fathoms Five for 6 friends last Friday, and I'm running it for 5 more this Friday. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Jason Farrell