Size of gods and goddesses of Glorantha

[Tupper]

Over in the Glorantha forum, there's a post saying that GaGoG has now grown to being 10 volumes (presumably not counting red book of magic). Is this serious? I had hoped for *a* book that filled in the gaps on some of the religions not covered in the core book (eg the other lunar religions, which are notable by their absence). I don't want to sound mean, but 2 books seems okay if it's a lengthy topic, and 10 books seems to be well into overkill territory...

Will there be some kind of option for someone who just needs the basics?

[Richard S.]

Cults of glorantha is basically giving every single major deity in Genertela a long form writeup, which is about 5 pages per god going by cults of prax. With 96 major cults that's already 480 pages, then there's an extra 40 spirit cults and such of probably about a page or two each, and it looks like each of the major gods will have at least one full page art piece as well. I agree that it probably could've fit into two volumes, but I'm fine with each elemental pantheon getting its own 150+ page book. How it'll affect affordability is beyond my guessing abilities.

There don't seem to be any plans for anything more condensed like the old gods of glorantha. The prosepaedia will give a general overview of the monomyth and each religion I think, but without any game material.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Tupper said:

Over in the Glorantha forum, there's a post saying that GaGoG has now grown to being 10 volumes (presumably not counting red book of magic). Is this serious?

Yes, it will come out as a 10 volume work.  I think as noted there: Overview/Monomyth, Prosopaedia (index of all the gods), then by Pantheon: Darkness, Sea, Earth, Lightbringers/Storm, Fire/Light, Lunar, Spirits/Hsunchen, and Chaos.

If your focus is Dragon Pass (or other Orlanthi lands such as Brolia or Maniria or parts of Ralios), get Lightbringers, Earth, and maybe Spirits.  If your focus is a campaign in the Lunar Empire, get Lunar, Fire, and Earth.  If your focus is seafaring, then you'll want Sea and the Lightbringers. 

The Overview will likely cover how they variously fit together.

[g33k]

The project had grown to the point that even fitting into 2 volumes was becoming an issue; they were already looking at 3, or even 4 volumes (and that's after splitting-out the Prosopaedia content).

@Rick Meints wrote (in part, & lightly edited for brevity):

• The first 4 books are Mythology, Prosopaedia, Lightbringers, and Earth (off to the printers soon).
• Each book is 144-168 pages in length.

At a guess, the next 4 (if they do them 4 at a time) would be Darkness, Solar, Water, & Lunar pantheons, but I'd also guess there are minor art & layout issues remaining, that could alter the order.  3+3 or 2+2+2 might be other releases, or they might not always "batch" them up, or...

I also have some curiosity 🧐  regarding "Darkness Pantheon" vs the (also upcoming) "TrollPack" -- I hypothesize the GoG & TP works will dovetail, with Trollpack3:Gods being the same volume as the GoG:Darkness book... as ever, it's likely I'm mistaken.  

But the logjam has clearly broken!      🥳 

[Tupper]

Somehow, I think a book with one page per god, plus a few illustrations, would have been more useful at the table. There's already plenty of "fluff" about the gods between the guide to Glorantha, the Glorantha sourcebook, and the core rulebook. 

I guess I'm in the minority, though, thinking 10 volumes is excessive. 🙂

[metcalph]

I think the scheme will follow the that outlined in the Sourcebook.  After Storm and Earth would come Moon, Darkness and Chaos thus providing enough for most campaigns.  Fire and Water would be in the third wave.  

[Shiningbrow]

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

Fire and Water would be in the third wave.

I think the Solar pantheon of Yelm and Yelmalio should come earlier, along with the Moon cult (given how closely they're working in the Lunar Empire).

Btw, if instead of "fire" we used "light", your sentence would have been a good (or bad) pun! 😁

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

I think the Solar pantheon of Yelm and Yelmalio should come earlier, along with the Moon cult (given how closely they're working in the Lunar Empire).

The reason I put it later is that there's only two gods in the Fire Pantheon - Yelm and Yelmalio - that have any influence in Dragon Pass and their impact isn't large (Sun Dome County and the Grazers)

[French Desperate WindChild]

3 hours ago, Tupper said:

Somehow, I think a book with one page per god, plus a few illustrations, would have been more useful at the table. There's already plenty of "fluff" about the gods between the guide to Glorantha, the Glorantha sourcebook, and the core rulebook. 

I guess I'm in the minority, though, thinking 10 volumes is excessive. 🙂

In my opinion the core rules book provides what is needed to start. Then as you say a lot of supplement may give some interesting points focusing on local background

but one page for one god would give nothing more than what the core rules propose. Or so ridiculously that it would give more frustration than nothing 🙂 

the cult books are designed to allow deep exploration (well I hope )

 

[Soccercalle]

I think Storm/Lightbringer and Earth is most important to get out early as nearly all common PC cults are there. But I am actually most excited to read the Shaman book as I get it will have the most new information. I am also eager to read the Lunar book with cults like Hon-Eel and Jakaleel that never have been officially described before.

[PhilHibbs]

Wow. Part of me is shouting "this is fantastic", but a little bit of me is thinking "this is going to be a problem, logistically".

[Squaredeal Sten]

41 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Wow. Part of me is shouting "this is fantastic", but a little bit of me is thinking "this is going to be a problem, logistically".

Maybe less of a problem than publishing one or two massive volumes to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.😉

Maybe it was their judgement that this way the material would actually get published promptly. Most of it in 2023, rather than having it all wait to go to layout and  the printer until the last bits of art were done.  And this way the first wave of books finances the printing of the next wave. 

And a lot of people will buy a series of $25-30 books without hesitating while  a $250 --$300 cased set will wait till a special occasion.  People are funny that way.  

I am just speculatng from the outside.

Not bad from my viewpoint.  I haven't read all of Guide to Glorantha yet and I have had those massive books for years now.  With the cults books in ten  smaller pieces I may actually read them all promptly.  I can lie in bed at night reading them, which is actually strenuous with GTG.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Proofing it

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 2/10/2023 at 3:19 PM, Tupper said:

Will there be some kind of option for someone who just needs the basics?

The problem is that "the basics" is different for different people and campaigns and times.  This past two weeks I have needed references for Chaos cults. mostly Thed,  as I prep to GM my Sartar campaign.  And I want the long form. .  My players may just need Lightbringers in short form.   In another campaign, set in Prax,  they may need Fire and Earth cuts, while I don't need to look up Waha right now.  That may change next week if a couple of people in my PBF Borderlands campaign recover from illness.

[Akhôrahil]

3 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

The problem is that "the basics" is different for different people and campaigns and times.  This past two weeks I have needed references for Chaos cults. mostly Thed,  as I prep to GM my Sartar campaign.  And I want the long form. .  My players may just need Lightbringers in short form.   In another campaign, set in Prax,  they may need Fire and Earth cuts, while I don't need to look up Waha right now.  That may change next week if a couple of people in my PBF Borderlands campaign recover from illness.

I think the player part matters quite a bit here. The GM needs everything, but a player can get a reasonably-costed single volume that works a little like a splatbook.

I’m a little surprised full Storm + Lightbringers, presumably the most popular PC cults with some margin and also not merely an Elemental pantheon, will get the same size  as Moon or Sea. 

[Soccercalle]

On 2/10/2023 at 10:19 PM, Tupper said:

Over in the Glorantha forum, there's a post saying that GaGoG has now grown to being 10 volumes (presumably not counting red book of magic). Is this serious? I had hoped for *a* book that filled in the gaps on some of the religions not covered in the core book (eg the other lunar religions, which are notable by their absence). I don't want to sound mean, but 2 books seems okay if it's a lengthy topic, and 10 books seems to be well into overkill territory...

Will there be some kind of option for someone who just needs the basics?

The basics is actually the core rules. They give you what you need to create PCs and enemies for the most important cults. If you run a Sartar- or Prax-based campaign you can also have use of the Lightbringer and Earth books, but you dont NEED it. The basics are actually already out there.

You can always add on later. Buy the Sky/Fire book if you have PCs that worships Yelmalio or Yelm. Buy the Darkness book if you have PCs that are troll or if they interact a lot with them. Buy the Shaman book if you have a shaman or Hsunchen in your party. Buy the Lunar book if you have a Lunar group or wants to create many Lunar NPCs from different cults. 

[Soccercalle]

6 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I think the player part matters quite a bit here. The GM needs everything, but a player can get a reasonably-costed single volume that works a little like a splatbook.

I’m a little surprised full Storm + Lightbringers, presumably the most popular PC cults with some margin and also not merely an Elemental pantheon, will get the same size  as Moon or Sea. 

They will not all have the same length. I guess that Lightbringer/Storm will be the longest book and Sea the shortest. I actually like Lightbringer book as it will be a good option for players that wants to learn more about the most common PC cults. As a GM I want em all. But I would certainly recommend my players to buy the Ligthbringer book.

My current group is Vinga, Orlanth Thunderous, Odayla, Issaries and Humakt. With sidekicks (NPCs that follow the group) worshipping Ernalda, Argan Argar, Lanbril and Yelm.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Soccercalle
Missed a point

[Joerg]

12 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Wow. Part of me is shouting "this is fantastic", but a little bit of me is thinking "this is going to be a problem, logistically".

We're not yet at Cthulhu Wars dimensions... except possibly mass.

[soltakss]

I suppose it makes sense in several ways:

• Smaller volumes are easier, and cheaper, to produce
• Smaller volumes are cheaper to buy, although the total amount might be more than 1 two-volume set could have sold at
• Multiple volumes allows GMs to pick and choose which pantheons they want, so someone not interested in the East of Glorantha, or tolls, wouldn't buy those volumes
• Chaosium don't need to hold up the entire project while waiting for certain artwork, if they have the artwork ready for one volume they can print that volume

In any case, I'd probably use a PDF tool to combine the PDFs into one large file, depending on how big it is, for convenience.

 

 

[Soccercalle]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

I suppose it makes sense in several ways:

• Smaller volumes are easier, and cheaper, to produce
• Smaller volumes are cheaper to buy, although the total amount might be more than 1 two-volume set could have sold at
• Multiple volumes allows GMs to pick and choose which pantheons they want, so someone not interested in the East of Glorantha, or tolls, wouldn't buy those volumes
• Chaosium don't need to hold up the entire project while waiting for certain artwork, if they have the artwork ready for one volume they can print that volume

In any case, I'd probably use a PDF tool to combine the PDFs into one large file, depending on how big it is, for convenience.

 

 

The mistake Chaosium did was to try to fit it in 2-3 books until last fall. If they hade decided on a ten book plan 3-4 years ago some of them would already been published. 

[Akhôrahil]

4 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

They will not all have the same length.

I have seen 144 to 160 pages for each, which is close enough for same size.

On the other hand, this could have been just a generalization - it would make sense to me if the Lightbringers one is bigger.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Akhôrahil

[jajagappa]

30 minutes ago, Soccercalle said:

If they hade decided on a ten book plan 3-4 years ago some of them would already been published. 

Except for perhaps the Prosopaedia, I suspect this would actually not be the case. As Jeff has hinted at, there's been a lot of discovery in writing all the pantheons including the importance of deities not initially drafted. 

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, Soccercalle said:

The mistake Chaosium did was to try to fit it in 2-3 books until last fall. If they hade decided on a ten book plan 3-4 years ago some of them would already been published. 

Unlikely.

[Richard S.]

Here's the most up to date list of pantheons and which gods will be in them: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/chaosium/cults-of-glorantha-previews-2019/

Storm/Lightbringers is definitely the largest at 18 cults, with earth as a close second at 16. Then lunar at 14, fire at 12, darkness at 11, chaos at 10, and water at 7. Spirit technically has 48, but 41 of those are spirit cults, which are a fraction of the size.

[Agentorange]

On 2/12/2023 at 1:26 PM, Soccercalle said:

The mistake Chaosium did was to try to fit it in 2-3 books until last fall. If they hade decided on a ten book plan 3-4 years ago some of them would already been published. 

Maybe, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. At the time with the information available that may have seemed the best route forward.

[Soccercalle]

On 2/12/2023 at 3:48 PM, Jeff said:

Unlikely.

If you say so. But didn't Jason (or was it someone else at Chaosium) that recently wrote that you lost some months when you went from 2+1 to 10 books. But I may have misunderstood.

And hindsight is hindsight. All the best!