Size of gods and goddesses of Glorantha

[Rick Meints]

33 minutes ago, Jason Farrell said:

Actively discouraging people from wanting new books for their chosen game system seems like a frankly baffling stance for a game company to take.  It's one thing for the random fan to do that (I've been told on here that "Orlanth" gives you everything you need, so I shouldn't care about any other cults, and I've been told that I should just use 20 year old rules), but it's quite another coming from the president of Chaosium.

The point is not that we can't play the game without these books.  The point is that we shouldn't have to, not when cults and heroquests are two of THE most fundamental things that make Glorantha unique compared to other settings/rulesets.

I expect to get people telling me I'm whining, I'm wrong, I'm dumb, etc but that's fine.  I'm very secure in feeling that it's a terrible idea to come out with a starter set in 2021 (and then discount it to 99 cents this year) and follow that up with nothing but a Weapon & Equipment book, while constantly delaying support for key elements of the setting and rules.  It's been frustrating enough for me that after a couple of years of being very in tune with what's going on in RQ and reading nothing but RQ, I've had to take a step back and largely disconnect from it.

Good news for Chaosium though: they're still my favorite game company, so I've stepped back from RQ and into the tentacled arms of my all time favorite, Call of Cthulhu.  I ran Full Fathoms Five for 6 friends last Friday, and I'm running it for 5 more this Friday. 

I'm sorry, but I never intended to discourage anyone in any way from wanting new books. I want new books. I'm quite sure you do to. Please reread what I said, such as "My strong belief is that having to know everything before playing anything is fairly self-defeating." That isn't telling you to not want new books.

There's also: "many gaming groups could easily get by with starting with just a single book or two of cults". Please notice the word "starting". That is my advice to start with one or two books and go from there. I am not saying or implying anyone should only buy one or two books in the end, just at the start. 

In the end, I standby what I said, and so I will restate it another way to hopefully add clarity: I can't imagine a campaign that would require every cult book before getting started. You certainly wouldn't need to be familiar with all 100+ cults to get started. Build up your knowledge over time. There are many people, myself included, who look forward to getting every volume of the Cults series, regardless of whether I will use each and every one of them in play.  

[soltakss]

On 2/19/2023 at 9:22 PM, Scornado said:

But Rick, when will the first volumes be available?  I am keen to give you my money!

I am going to buy them all in PDF format anyway, regardless of whether they come in 10 books or one humungous book. I'd probably join them together as PDFs anyway.

[Scornado]

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

I am going to buy them all in PDF format anyway, regardless of whether they come in 10 books or one humungous book. I'd probably join them together as PDFs anyway.

I expect I'll buy them all, quite possibly in physical form if I can free up the shelf space

[g33k]

On 2/19/2023 at 3:50 PM, Rick Meints said:

... 

In the end, I standby what I said, and so I will restate it another way to hopefully add clarity: I can't imagine a campaign that would require every cult book before getting started. You certainly wouldn't need to be familiar with all 100+ cults to get started. Build up your knowledge over time. There are many people, myself included, who look forward to getting every volume of the Cults series, regardless of whether I will use each and every one of them in play.  

There is a phenomenon amongst gamers, though -- we don't know what we don't know, and we know it.

Many will wonder about those unavailable deities & cults...
Are there richer, more-flavorful options specific to the character-concept I'm developing?
Is there another martial sun-deity that isn't the minmax'er-despised "worst warrior ever"?

etc...

It's even got a newspeak neologism -- FOMO, "Fear Of Missing Out."

Additionally, there's the standout issue of the further delay on the Lunars -- as the chief antagonists (and sometimes frenemies or even unlikely bedfellows) of the core Sartarite experience, they're imho the 800lb "whaaa...?" in the room.  I expect other tables will have other befuddlement over "why not <pantheon X>?"

So while I more-or-less agree with you -- in broad strokes -- about "not all books needed," it's worth acknowledging that many are going to be further frustrated by one or more of the 6 books still waiting in the wings, and there's likely to be some less-specific concern & longing & "want-it-now."

Edited February 22, 2023 by g33k

[Akhôrahil]

8 hours ago, g33k said:

There is a phenomenon amongst gamers, though -- we don't know what we don't know, and we know it.

Many will wonder about those unavailable deities & cults...

One of the great things about RQG is that the big, common cults tend to be excellent because of their size (due to ease of worship access, rich mythos, many associated cults and subcults providing spells, and even just social usefulness). The guy with a weirdo cult is afflicted with a difficult weirdo cult.

Orlanth was only a so-so cult in RQ3, but is amazeballs in RQG. We see why there's a reason most people in-world stick to the standard stuff.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Akhôrahil

[PhilHibbs]

I'm warming to this idea. Yes, I can see that a two-volume Guide-sized whopper would put off casual players. A modest sized Storm Pantheon book would not.

[DreadDomain]

I personally do not mind the many books approach. I am less enthused be the many more months to wait for the first few books and who knows how long for the whole series.

Edited February 23, 2023 by DreadDomain

[Bill the barbarian]

24 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

I'm warming to this idea. Yes, I can see that a two-volume Guide-sized whopper would put off casual players. A modest sized Storm Pantheon book would not.

I am overjoyed, as I have no intention of ever running games in the south, east or west.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Bill the barbarian

[Jason Farrell]

3 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I am overjoyed, as I have no intention of ever running games in the south, east or west.

Not to pick on you, but I'm going to take this opportunity to mention something I'm often confused by: it doesn't require that you set your games in other areas of Glorantha, because people in those other places can travel to you.

There's also nothing regional about the division of cults in these books.  There are Lightbringer worshippers all over.  And there are lots of cults that won't be covered in the first four books released that are prevalent right there in Dragon Pass/Sartar (Yelm, various troll cults, etcetera, etcetera)

Edited February 23, 2023 by Jason Farrell

[Bill the barbarian]

No worries...

But if not relevant to me, I really can not justify spending the cash. Porchango, will not be big in my Dragon Pass, ergo, Pamatela will be of little interest. I will imagine that to be true of The Eastern Isles, and Teshnos as well... We will see. When the books are finally out and not vapour ware I can make my decisions.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Bill the barbarian

[PhilHibbs]

9 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I'm warming to this idea. Yes, I can see that a two-volume Guide-sized whopper would put off casual players. A modest sized Storm Pantheon book would not.

I should have said "Lightbringers", I guess that's where Orlanth will be. I guess most Sartar players will want Lightbringers and Earth.

On 2/11/2023 at 10:03 AM, Brian Duguid said:

But as for contents: Mythology, Prosopaedia, Lightbringers, Earth; then (no particular order) Darkness, Water, Solar, Lunar, Chaos, Spirits/Beasts.

Is there a detailed list anywhere?

[metcalph]

27 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

I should have said "Lightbringers", I guess that's where Orlanth will be. I guess most Sartar players will want Lightbringers and Earth.

Storm Pantheon works better.  Several gods (like Waha) would be hard pressed to be described as lightbringers.

27 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Is there a detailed list anywhere?

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/chaosium/cults-of-glorantha-previews-2019/

[RandomNumber]

On 2/13/2023 at 1:02 AM, jajagappa said:

As Jeff has hinted at, there's been a lot of discovery in writing all the pantheons including the importance of deities not initially drafted

When the first volumes are released, I'd love to hear more from @Jeff about the creative process and discovery that occurred in creating this magnum opus. I can only imagine it must have been a swirl of emotions and revelations.  A Heroquest even.

I'm happy to hear that the content will be split into shorter, more focused volumes at a lower price-point. That seems a more commercially sensible strategy. They may be the Chaosium but I figure they do their homework. When I'm doing scenario prep I'd rather have a slimmer volume to hand.  G2G is so... unwieldy.

I can remember vividly standing in Games Centre on Oxford Street looking at CoP and wondering whether to buy it with my birthday money. I'm glad I did and I can't wait to have a similar experience another ten times, 40+ years later!

 

[Scornado]

Just now, RandomNumber said:

When the first volumes are released, I'd love to hear more from @Jeff about the creative process and discovery that occurred in creating this magnum opus. I can only imagine it must have been a swirl of emotions and revelations.  A Heroquest even.

I'm happy to hear that the content will be split into shorter, more focused volumes at a lower price-point. That seems a more commercially sensible strategy. They may be the Chaosium but I figure they do their homework. When I'm doing scenario prep I'd rather have a slimmer volume to hand.  G2G is so... unwieldy.

I can remember vividly standing in Games Centre on Oxford Street looking at CoP and wondering whether to buy it with my birthday money. I'm glad I did and I can't wait to have a similar experience another ten times, 40+ years later!

 

I remember WORKING in Games Centre in Oxford street and planning to buy all this stuff in the January sale.  I think it went bust on December 31st!

[Gary Norton]

I was fortunate enough to pick up the preview copy at Gen Con 2019. That version has 498 pages; it's all text and no art. At that time, I believe Chaosium intended to add art and release it as a 2-volume set. 

But now Chaosium has changed the release to 10 volumes comprising around 1500 pages altogether. That's an additional 1000 pages of material! Hundreds of added pages will certainly be lots of beautiful art. But it seems like there must be a lot more additional text coming our way as well.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they have for us. I hope the first set of releases will be in time for Gen Con 2023.

[styopa]

(deleted)

Edited March 1, 2023 by styopa

[styopa]

On 2/19/2023 at 3:22 PM, Scornado said:

But Rick, when will the first volumes be available?  I am keen to give you my money!

From abChaos:

"The first of these books is set to release in July, with a big launch at GenCon Indy in August. "