slice of life for "average" people? images thereof?

[g33k]

This will obviously vary culture to culture, between races, etc.

But what's "daily life" like for the majority of Gloranthan's -- the non Adventurers?  Obviously, the agriculturalists will be doing their seasonal sowing, reaping, and everything in between, huddling-up for Dark & Storm seasons, etc; and Pastoralists will be doing their corresponding things, and the urban folks theirs, etc.

But let's take a few questions...

=== 

Is there "art" for pleasure, or mostly just for religious purposes?  Dance, music, poetry, theater, literature?

Do people decorate their personal/everyday items just for beauty & pleasure of use?  Or is it all functional, with Cultic/Runic markings to fulfill ritual obligations, or elevate magical functionality, or suchlike purposes?

Does it follow "class," with the wealthy & powerful having lots of beauty-for-the-sake-of-beauty, while the "ordinary joe" has much-less (or none; or maybe one set of "sunday best")?

===

Do people have hobbies, avocations, activities pursued for pleasure/fun (rather than for survival/sustenance, or cultural/cultic obligation)?

We know the Red Emperor has lavish parties & entertainments, often very decadent.  Do many/most other courts have these, to one degree or another?  Is Moonson merely the biggest party-animal, or is he nearly-unique in this?

Do the "common folk" hold parties "just for fun," or are they entirely the various "harvest fest" & "trade fair" & "religious event" sorts of festivals?
(noting that "harvest" and "trade" festivals offer quite a bit of scope for "everyman" busting-loose sorts of fun!)

===

Does Glorantha merely follow the real-world in these regards?  Should I just take my answers from ancient Sumeria, Mycenae, Hallstatt, Minoa, & other source-cultures?

Don't we presume some Gloranthan variation from pure historicity?

Finally (as noted in the Subject) -- where are the best sources for Glorantha "everyman" and "slice of life" imagery?
 

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Finally (as noted in the Subject) — where are the best sources for Glorantha "everyman" …?

I haven’t read it, but I think Jeff recommended this:

Weavers, Scribes, and Kings: A New History of the Ancient Near East by Amanda H. Podany

Spoiler

This sweeping history of the ancient Near East (Mesopotamia, Syria, Anatolia, Iran) takes readers on a journey from the creation of the world’s first cities to the conquests of Alexander the Great. The book is built around the life stories of many ancient men and women, from kings, priestesses, and merchants to bricklayers, musicians, and weavers. Their habits of daily life, beliefs, triumphs, and crises, and the changes that they faced over time are explored through their written words and the archaeological remains of the buildings, cities, and empires in which they lived. Rather than chronicling three thousand years of kingdoms, the book instead creates a tapestry of life stories through which readers come to know specific individuals from many walks of life, and to understand their places within the broad history of events and institutions in the ancient Near East. These life stories are preserved on ancient cuneiform tablets, which allow us, for example, to trace the career of a weaver as she advanced to became a supervisor of a workshop, to listen to a king trying to persuade his generals to prepare for a siege, and to feel the pain of a starving young couple who were driven to sell all four of their young children into slavery during a famine. What might seem at first glance to be a remote and inaccessible ancient culture proves to be a comprehensible world, one that bequeathed to us many of our institutions and beliefs, a truly fascinating place to visit.

Expect more text than literal pictures.

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

• Is there art for pleasure … dance, music, poetry, theatre, literature?
• Do people decorate their personal/everyday items just for beauty & pleasure of use?
• Does it follow class, with the wealthy & powerful having lots … while the ordinary joe has much-less (or none …)?

Based on the fact that I’d like Glorantha to be a fun place to visit — and not just some theocratic hell-hole careering toward apocalypse, all jaws firmly set — I would say “yes” to the first two. I don’t pretend to have any insight into canon — I am not Harold Bloom — that’s just how I want it to be.

We’d expect the rich to have more physical stuff and [employ|own] more artists with rigorous training and lives dedicated solely to art — probably no getting around that — but that is not to say the poor and those in between have nothing or that what they do have lacks all subtlety and sophistication; whatever the rich say, opera is not the pinnacle of artistic achievement. Allow the poor and middling grace, wit, and sophistication — Gloranthan bebop, if you will. The Void preserve us from “quaint rustic charm” and “the crude vigour and earthy humour” of the working classes.

I have climbed down from my tower of soap boxes, now, and I am smashing them to matchwood with my sledgehammer.

[Jason Farrell]

33 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

Based on the fact that I’d like Glorantha to be a fun place to visit — and not just some theocratic hell-hole careering toward apocalypse, all jaws firmly set — I would say “yes” to the first two. I don’t pretend to have any insight into canon — I am not Harold Bloom — that’s just how I want it to be.

 

If anything, I think there would be more. 

As in our world, that's largely a function of whether people have to spend every waking moment just surviving.  In harsher climes, I would imagine there are some Gloranthan cultures with little time for art for art's sake.  But overall, there certainly would be, and I say I think there would be more because of the existence of magic, which would reduce the drudgery of everyday life, and generally make things easier and faster to accomplish than IRL. 

[Squaredeal Sten]

2 hours ago, g33k said:

......
Is there "art" for pleasure, or mostly just for religious purposes?  Dance, music, poetry, theater, literature?

Do people decorate their personal/everyday items just for beauty & pleasure of use? ....

Does it follow "class," with the wealthy & powerful having lots of beauty-for-the-sake-of-beauty, while the "ordinary joe" has much-less (or none; or maybe one set of "sunday best")?....

Do the "common folk" hold parties "just for fun," or are they entirely the various "harvest fest" & "trade fair" & ....

 

In my non canonical opinion, the example of the RW bronze age, and even earlier ages, shows that

Yes there is non religious, non royal art and decoration.  A lot of it has not survived, not being stone,  but we know that people will dress to impress and that means patterned cloth, embroidery, decoration with quills etc.  A good weaver will be well known and will do prized work.

There is beaded jewelry and beaded clothes.

Most people cannot afford carved stone but metal and bone tools will often be decorated.   They carved/ scrimshawed bone a long time before the bronze age.  Art is a human thing to do.

Pottery will be decorated.  A lot of household art will be pottery.

Literature will be mostly oral, and people will memorize poetry. Unlike today.  This was an admired personal accomplishment.

On the other hand many people will only have two or three sets of clothes.  Basically a set to wear. A set to wash, and a best set for big occasions. 

And the poor will have much less decoration and leisure than the rich.  That is a human constant, and got worse with the transition from hunter-gatheter to agriculture.  

Dancing, singing....more people making music than today when people just put on a recording.  That is a recent change.  

Beyond that. Your Glorantha can be as artistic as you imagine and tell it.

[John Biles]

7 hours ago, g33k said:

Stuff moved below so I can answer question by question.
 

Is there "art" for pleasure, or mostly just for religious purposes?  Dance, music, poetry, theater, literature?

In a world of Heroquesting, theater for fun seems like a bit of a risk.

But the rest, yes.  Some places, with more money and literacy, will have a lot more literature, but dance, music, and poetry are ubiquitous.

But given the nature of Glorantha, lots of things are going to be for fun AND have a religious purpose.

The Harvest Festival worships Ernalda and it's a huge party.

Do people decorate their personal/everyday items just for beauty & pleasure of use?  Or is it all functional, with Cultic/Runic markings to fulfill ritual obligations, or elevate magical functionality, or suchlike purposes?

Even a stickpicker will have a little bit of art because things made for use are also decorated, even if only with simple repeating patterns.  The split between 'art' and 'functionality' is largely the result of industrialization, where machines can make things, but are usually not so good at decorating.  (But even then, think about a Cereal Box.  That is industrially produced and it's a piece of art)

The higher your wealth, the prettier your functional objects. 

Does it follow "class," with the wealthy & powerful having lots of beauty-for-the-sake-of-beauty, while the "ordinary joe" has much-less (or none; or maybe one set of "sunday best")?

As above - everything is decorated at least a little, but the wealthier you are, the more likely you have things which are art for its own sake like paintings and tapestries or murals and the prettier your functional items are.

Do people have hobbies, avocations, activities pursued for pleasure/fun (rather than for survival/sustenance, or cultural/cultic obligation)?

The richer you are, the more time/wealth you have for fun.  Even a stickpicker might enjoy gambling in his rare time off or dancing or a corn shucking party (well, if corn gets shucked where he lives). 

We know the Red Emperor has lavish parties & entertainments, often very decadent.  Do many/most other courts have these, to one degree or another?  Is Moonson merely the biggest party-animal, or is he nearly-unique in this?

Nobles, wealthy merchants, and the like have some degree of parties and the like.  But even clan chief will probably throw at least one feast a year if he can to show off his power and wealth. 

Do the "common folk" hold parties "just for fun," or are they entirely the various "harvest fest" & "trade fair" & "religious event" sorts of festivals?
(noting that "harvest" and "trade" festivals offer quite a bit of scope for "everyman" busting-loose sorts of fun!)

It depends on your definition of 'common'.  The less wealth, the more likely the only parties you have are those thrown by your local leader or by your city guild or whatever.

Does Glorantha merely follow the real-world in these regards?  Should I just take my answers from ancient Sumeria, Mycenae, Hallstatt, Minoa, & other source-cultures?

Don't we presume some Gloranthan variation from pure historicity?

The real world is a good general guide, but you have to adapt to the specifics of a society.  Some parts of Glorantha are a lot more wealthy and organized than others.  Ivar the Carl in the Blue Quartz Clan and Ivar the Master Barrelmaker in Jonstown are going to have different opportunities for 'fun' and a different rythm in their lives even if they both worship Orlanth and live in the same country.

Ivar the Carl spends much of his time plowing, tending crops, and looking after his cattle, pigs, and sheep, but he has silver armbands decorated with scenes of rural life he got as his cut of the loot on a raid, a beautiful carved drinking horn to show off to guests, and he has a little feast in the harvest season for his cottars and stickpickers who hang around his hall.  With very good beef.  He likes to go fishing in his spare time; he does eat the fish, but it's for fun, not survival.  Ivar the Master Barrelmaker has an apartment over his shop instead of a wooden home, with a tapestry showing one of his ancestors, nice furniture, and his hobby is wood carving, turning the leftover wodden bits from his work into pretty things. 

 

[AndrewTBP]

There’s plenty of theatre for fun in the canon. The Puppeteer Troupe, Bundalini's Skeleton Musical Troop, Count Felagga's Mystic Menagerie, etc.,

[Joerg]

There are trickster bands providing entertainment and (at least social) disruption for all layers of society. Some of these sanctioned, others outside of laws and more or less persecuted.

On a household level, storytelling, games and other such social activities will flourish, even in an oppressive system like oldster Fonrit with 12 hour or longer workdays.

[French Desperate WindChild]

why not ?

except in very specific society where you are by nature "guilty" then must "pay", I would say that people like to enjoy and organising enjoyement is part of leadership (bread and circus).

I can't see Orlanthi, Lodrili, Ernaldan and Lunar not have fun or seduction.

Troll ball is not only (if it is) ceremony.

Even Sun County has competion (push shields - or the right english term - ).

Dolphins play so merfolk should, same for hunshen

I m pretty sure that even old Yelmic are able to have some "distant" pleasure in art or fashion

 

[JRE]

My own view is that Gloranthans have much more fun than the typical bronze age people, just because magic makes sure that survival is easier and crafting is usually better and takes less time. Just add some minor magics for cleaning clothes and anticonception to the healing and productivity improving magics we already know. They also travel much more, which means more varied foods, entertainment and cultural mixes.

In most cultures there will be religious overtones on almost any action, because magic is everpresent, and most magic is framed within a religious perpective, but although for the Donandar troupe the spectacle is worship, for the spectators it is just fun and a way to forget other worries for a while. In the same way the harvest festival is first a party and second a religious celebration, except for the priests and deep initiates, who will do it the other way. I believe most people do not wish a deeper link with the divine, in the same way they do not wish a deeper link with the rulers. They prefer to keep those relationships to a few codified ones, and in between just work enough to live well, feed and clothe their families and slack, sing, dance, share stories and have fun as much as they can. It will be already a lot of work keeping up to date with your extended family to worry too much about the gods and the rulers. You do your part, they do their part and life goes on. But parties with big magic will be great, as even the poor will be welcome in the temple and share the mead of the gods and the meat of the sacred beasts, and it will really taste and feel like divine fare, once you are deep in the festival.

The bad counterpart is that it is much more violent even than violent cultures in our world, as the extra time and riches, easy healing and mobility means there is much more interpersonal and intercommunity violence. Like most RPGs, at least those designed by men.

Here at least they get some good benefits. And great sex. I am sure thay have more and more satisfactory sex than any Earth culture. Anticonception, sexual education and sex magic just makes that sure. And it is more fun to roleplay that way.

Not really average, but the Griselda tales show a much down to earth view of adventurers than the current heroic sagas. But that is personal preference, and my games have more of that style than Beowulf. 

[PhilHibbs]

On 6/28/2023 at 9:57 PM, mfbrandi said:

Based on the fact that I’d like Glorantha to be a fun place to visit — and not just some theocratic hell-hole careering toward apocalypse, all jaws firmly set — I would say “yes” to the first two. I don’t pretend to have any insight into canon — I am not Harold Bloom — that’s just how I want it to be.

On 6/29/2023 at 8:26 AM, JRE said:

My own view is that Gloranthans have much more fun than the typical bronze age people, just because magic makes sure that survival is easier and crafting is usually better and takes less time. Just add some minor magics for cleaning clothes and anticonception to the healing and productivity improving magics we already know. They also travel much more, which means more varied foods, entertainment and cultural mixes.

Agreed, and that gives scope for a greater dramatic contrast between the utopia that the world could be, and the horrors of war, chaos, and other monsters. The more there is to lose, the more is at stake. They COULD be having more fun and greater life expectancy and a richer tapestry of life, if only some brave heroes would go sort out those Tusk Riders that have moved into the hills over yonder...

[Nick Brooke]

On 6/28/2023 at 7:56 PM, g33k said:

This will obviously vary culture to culture, between races, etc. But what's "daily life" like for the majority of Gloranthan's -- the non Adventurers?
...
Finally (as noted in the Subject) -- where are the best sources for Glorantha "everyman" and "slice of life" imagery?
 

The lavishly-illustrated RuneQuest Weapons & Equipment book is your best source for material culture in our quasi-bronze age world; it's essentially the physical/material counterpart to the Red Book of Magic, which shows what manifestations of living mythology can look like. Free farmers would have "best" outfits for feast days, ceremonies and the like: they aren't all peasants in rags. Decoration isn't limited to functional Runes, it's as varied as in our own world. People like pretty things, here as there. Art is a luxury: you'll find it in temples, palaces, public places and the homes of nobles. Gloranthans can certainly distinguish between sacred and profane acts, performances, contexts and the like: the ones who can't are loony fanatics, and ordinary people shun them.

[JRE]

We need to remember most PC are in the Fanatic/Extremely committed/Monomaniacal power acquisition category. Most people will not attend all holy day ceremonies, spend all free time developing new skills, learning new magics and obsessing about new magic items. They will slack all they can, never offer themselves volunteers, try to have minimal contact with powerful obsessed people like priests, shamans, sorcerors and PCs, and prefer if their interactions with the ruling powers are limited and very clear. 

They will prefer a bard in the local public house than traveling one day (even less a week) to see the Puppeteer Troupe. Hide their families when a troll caravan gets close, even if they will assemble in the militia if they are called, hoping those weaponthanes can solve the situation before the trolls reach the clan territory.

I have them preferring to sacrifice POW to the clan or town wyter so the chieftain can bless their unborn child, than spending days or weeks at the temple learning the magic, the myth and the power. And when they party at the harvest festival, of course they are thankful, but they do it because all their friends and relatives are there, not because the aloof mother goddess will appreciate it. Because if you draw her attention, interesting things will happen to you.

You do not want interesting things near. Interesting things is what sent so many people following Kallyr, and how many came back? It brought us the long winter, the Lunar raiders, the Telmori raiders and even the Lismelder. And now even the Grazers and some strange pirates are robbing our cattle.

[French Desperate WindChild]

4 hours ago, JRE said:

 

We need to remember most PC are in the Fanatic/Extremely committed/Monomaniacal power acquisition category. Most people will not attend all holy day ceremonies, spend all free time developing new skills, learning new magics and obsessing about new magic items. They will slack all they can, never offer themselves volunteers, try to have minimal contact with powerful obsessed people like priests, shamans, sorcerors and PCs, and prefer if their interactions with the ruling powers are limited and very clear. 

 

Agreed

then there are a lot ways possible 

——-

as a gm (if they wish) focus on roleplay and social interaction (some npc present in some party when pc were « checking » their skills/runes are in competition to obtain any benefits (job position, clan support for their heroquest, gifts…) of course npc win

——-

As a gm use loyalty xxx. Loyalty today is used to augment rolls. And (unfortunately imo) represents the same level of loyalty between the two parties (clan/temple and pc)

if pc focus on their « check » and don’t participate enough on their loyalty events then ask for a loyalty roll. If success it means the pc feels she is not enough loyal (reduce loyalty by 1d6) if she fails her clan/temple feels she is not enough loyal (reduce loyalty by 1d6)

————-

as game designer define new stats about social interaction . Rqg reputation is not enough imo. For example pc’s loyalty to clan/temple and clan/temple loyalty to pc.

when the clan/temple offers gain to the pc, she is allowed to augment her loyalty to clan/temple. When it refuses reasonable help/request  she is allowed to reduce her loyalty to clan/temple 

when the pc helps the clan/temple or acts more generously than expected, she is allowed to augment the clan/temple loyalty to her.

when she refuses reasonable request or doesn’t participate enough to the clan/temple regular life, gm can reduce the clan/temple loyalty to her 

With it split of loyalty

Pc’s loyalty to clan/temple can augment skill rolls as the rqg loyalty 

the use of clan/temple loyalty to a pc offers some opportunities :

- helps more than usual the pc

- a score of xxx(60%) is required  to become godtalker

 - a score of xxx(90% ?) is required to become rune lord or priest

- a score of x1/x2/x3 is required to obtain from the clan 1 / 5 / 12 hides (or other clan facilities 

 Of course it depends on the table and I prefer without rules and only roleplay

but for those who loves stat and would have to manage players focus on their own power, that would help to balance

[DrGoth]

17 hours ago, JRE said:

We need to remember most PC are in the Fanatic/Extremely committed/Monomaniacal power acquisition category. Most people will not attend all holy day ceremonies, spend all free time developing new skills, learning new magics and obsessing about new magic items.

The one bit I meet disagree with there is the holy day attendance, at least amongst theists (obviously).  I suspect that is quite high across the board.  The Gods are real and you need their protection.  Better not slack off. While the real world middle ages aren't a direct analogy the vast majority of people attended the vast majority of festivals - one estimate is that you were expected (and did) turn up to church 90 days of the year.

Those MP sacrifices count and you'd better show up!

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, DrGoth said:

The one bit I meet disagree with there is the holy day attendance, at least amongst theists (obviously).

So do I, although for less than pious reasons. Christmas is almost religiously observed all over the (somewhat westernized) world, as an opportunity to give gifts or have feasts, without any spiritual overtones e.g. in Japan or Saudi Arabia. The High Holy Day sacrifices are an opportunity to gain access to (nearly) free meals, even feasts beyond the normal means of the lower classes. It is good to be a lay member on such days.

Even better to be able to officiate in a minor associate role for some obscure local deity or spirit, and sit on one of the higher tables, being recognized beyond your normal station a few time in the year. That's the attraction for low class people to become holy persons (God Talkers without most of the priestly privileges or most of those duties) of minor deities.

 

Without the feasting, votive images (possibly self-crafted) will do. Much like Europeans with state-supported churches pay their church "taxes" but attend only sporadically, even when it comes to high holy days (but more regularly on funerals or weddings).

[Squaredeal Sten]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

.....

Even better to be able to officiate in a minor associate role for some obscure local deity or spirit, and sit on one of the higher tables, being recognized beyond your normal station a few time in the year. That's the attraction for low class people to become holy persons (God Talkers without most of the priestly privileges or most of those duties) ....

As I imagine it there are even more opportunities for initiates to officiate in subordinate roles, not only at Sacred Time but also on other holy days.  My examples include:

(1) Helping to perform sacrifices:  While the priest presides and calls upon the god and cuts the animal's throat,  initiates will lead in the sacrificial animal. Butcher it afterward.  Barbecue it and cut portions for the rest of the congregation. All this may be taught or supervised by a subordinate priest or God Talker. In my game the first sign of the Adventurerrs' rise in status was being designated to do the barbecuing, and this was an occasion for a Worship roll.

(2) Helping to teach cult lore and to initiate: For example the Six Seasons in Sartar male  initiation scene features many members of the community wearing masks, not just the priest.

(3) For another example I see an upward bound Ernalda initiate on the assistant priestess track, as working for the temple teaching introductory lore (as in modern RW Sunday school)  and Co-teaching birthing classes.  Presumably also midwifing.  And casting Bless Pregnancy as part of her temple job, not as an individual favor.  Naturally the income from doing this last magic, and from the additional Rune points to boost characteristics, supports both the temple and the initiate's standard of living from the temple.

(4) at Sacred Time initiates may not only take subordinate roles in the in-world heroquests / passion plays, but will also usher, guard the sacred precinct, prepare by making  or repairing scenery, masks, costumes, and props.

[soltakss]

For me, Gloranthans do things for other reasons than purely religious. However, religion does impact on may things. So, people will make nice things, decorate items, learn to dance and so on. A Dancer could be an entertainer, a temple dancer, or just dance for fun. Similarly, a singer could sing for their supper, sing work songs to help the day pass by, sing to woo, sing in temples and much more. I think that people have hobbies, and why shouldn't they>?

So, people are the same as us, as people are people. However, there are things to consider. Daily life can be a grind, for example people toiling in the field will spend most of their days working so won't have much time for anything else, but they could make time for certain things. So, they might make coming of age tunics for their children, so they can be seen to be lovely.

 

[Darius West]

On 6/30/2023 at 9:45 PM, JRE said:

We need to remember most PC are in the Fanatic/Extremely committed/Monomaniacal power acquisition category. Most people will not attend all holy day ceremonies, spend all free time developing new skills, learning new magics and obsessing about new magic items. They will slack all they can, never offer themselves volunteers, try to have minimal contact with powerful obsessed people like priests, shamans, sorcerers and PCs, and prefer if their interactions with the ruling powers are limited and very clear. 

I agree with this approach.  I think this will change depending on how much survival stress the ordinary people are under though.  If there is a war on or a natural disaster, they will definitely get more involved I think.  There is also a difference in regions where most adults are initiated into a cult.  They may not be fanatical, but they may also not be quite so slack, as this is their archetype they are serving, and there are tangible results.

On 6/30/2023 at 9:45 PM, JRE said:

They will prefer a bard in the local public house than traveling one day (even less a week) to see the Puppeteer Troupe. Hide their families when a troll caravan gets close, even if they will assemble in the militia if they are called, hoping those weaponthanes can solve the situation before the trolls reach the clan territory.

Agreed.  I suspect that most people will be leery about leaving their "tribal" territory, and will consider the nearest city to be the center of civilization and the nearest town to be huge and scary.

On 6/30/2023 at 9:45 PM, JRE said:

I have them preferring to sacrifice POW to the clan or town wyter so the chieftain can bless their unborn child, than spending days or weeks at the temple learning the magic, the myth and the power. And when they party at the harvest festival, of course they are thankful, but they do it because all their friends and relatives are there, not because the aloof mother goddess will appreciate it. Because if you draw her attention, interesting things will happen to you.

I think passions have a lot of importance in this.  High passions will mean more fanaticism, unless they are fears.

On 6/30/2023 at 9:45 PM, JRE said:

You do not want interesting things near. Interesting things is what sent so many people following Kallyr, and how many came back? It brought us the long winter, the Lunar raiders, the Telmori raiders and even the Lismelder. And now even the Grazers and some strange pirates are robbing our cattle.

Agreed.  Most ordinary people are happy pragmatists, willing to skate on by any troubles if their lives are somewhat comfortable.  They don't have the death wish necessary to become adventurers, and will only fight when it is pragmatically necessary.

[Darius West]

On 6/29/2023 at 4:56 AM, g33k said:

Is there "art" for pleasure, or mostly just for religious purposes?  Dance, music, poetry, theater, literature?

Song is probably the first art form humans invent, even if it is just chanting, according to anthropology.  This is born out by the speech centers in the human brain, such that when they are damaged, it is often possible to bypass them by getting the patient to sing what they want to say, suggesting that the musical part of the brain is an older system.  Singing is the oldest form of music, save perhaps for percussion, and I can't see any Gloranthans who wouldn't know what singing was.

Music is an outgrowth of singing, and benefits from the fact that while not as portable as the human vocal cords, are still pretty portable.  I'm sure most Gloranthan households will probably have a drum or a flute or perhaps even a more elaborate stringed instrument if they are wealthy.  In its purest form, music is a language of expressing emotion without words and it leads to...

Dancing.  Which is moving one's body in time to music.  We know that Glorantha even has choreography as it is mentioned in the Polaris write-up.  While dancing can be improvised, sometimes there are steps to follow, and patterns to observe.  The moment you have singing and a percussion instrument, dancing is likely invented soon after.

Poetry is an outgrowth of singing.  You employ clever words and rhymes in song, but to then recite them clearly so people don't mishear them becomes an artform in itself.  Poems might be short amusing doggerel, but can also be elevated to a major artform where epic poems with timeless and even mythical themes are played out by a major artist over many nights as a form of noble entertainment, as perhaps a more refined form of story telling.

Sculpture is an outgrowth of the human ability to notice simulacra in nature.  We know that Gloranthans have idols to venerate, but the practice likely starts with wood carving and noticing that a "stick looks just like a fox's head" or a "turnip that looks just like a thingy".  With a few nicks from a flint knife, it might look even more like a fox's head...  Early sculpture will be limited to wood and bone, then will progress to fired clay, and then on to stone, as it requires metal tools to work the harder material unless one is prepared to spend generations using friction and another stone to grind a shape.

Painting begins with body painting, probably using ochre, but giving things a pleasing color has pretty universal appeal.  As this requires an understanding of pigments and fixatives, as well as surface preparation, the idea of painting on a canvas isn't likely a well developed idea in Glorantha.  Instead colorful art will likely take the form of embroidered tapestries and wall paintings and decoration. 

As John Biles rightly suggests, given the issues of Hero Questing, it is likely that theatre is not a developed art form in Glorantha.  What Gloranthans likely enjoy instead is a series of Passion Plays every Sacred Time where they may even be called upon to participate, even if it is only to play a tree or sing in the chorus.  These plays will likely be spoken poetry, and will inform the people about the legends.  It is probably the most interesting and entertaining thing that happens all year.

Literature requires a well educated society and a means of mass producing written documents of an entertaining kind.  It is unequivocally true that there are plenty of books in Glorantha, but they are mostly housed in temples of Learning Gods like Lhankor Mhy, Irripi Ontor and Buserian.  This is likely to be a very rare art form that is appreciated only by a select class of intelligensia.  Certainly we have some very old novels, such as the Metamorphoses by Apuleius to suggest that such art predates printing presses.  Whether the novel presently exists in Glorantha is up for debate.  I am prepared to suppose that it may have existed during the 2nd Age God Learner era, but it likely doesn't exist anymore.

Architecture and even monumental architectural edifices definitely exist in Glorantha.  This is an artform that the Mostali excelled at and which other races have learned to mimic.

Perfumery is an artform in its infancy in Glorantha, as it requires a background in alchemy to even consider the issue.  The dyeing of cloth is more commonplace, but the use of bleaches, mordants and pigments is also a form of alchemy, albeit a more commonplace mystery in most civilized places.

Troll Art probably deserves a special mention, as it incorporates smell and texture in a way that human arts don't.  A human will breathe in next to a trollish cesspool and gag, while a troll will breathe in and smell a symbol of their whole community, united and even somewhat equal in their representation.  Trollish hovels will seem to be eclectic piles of stinky trash to humans, who only experience with their eyes, but to Trollish darksense, they will be filled with interesting juxtapositions of textures that their hands and even ears can differentiate, as well as interesting smells that may both comfort or attract interest, the way a sculpture might in a human dwelling.

 

[mfbrandi]

On 6/30/2023 at 12:45 PM, JRE said:

most PC are in the Fanatic/Extremely committed/Monomaniacal power acquisition category. Most people … will slack all they can

 

“The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.” — Turns out no revelation was at hand. 😉

[Squaredeal Sten]

6 hours ago, Darius West said:

.....

Poetry is an outgrowth of singing.  You employ clever words and rhymes in song, but to then recite them clearly so people don't mishear them becomes an artform in itself.  Poems might be short amusing doggerel, but can also be elevated to a major artform where epic poems with timeless and even mythical themes are played out by a major artist over many nights as a form of noble entertainment, as perhaps a more refined form of story telling.....

Literature requires a well educated society and a means of mass producing written documents of an entertaining kind.  It is unequivocally true that there are plenty of books in Glorantha, but they are mostly housed in temples of Learning Gods like Lhankor Mhy, Irripi Ontor and Buserian.  This is likely to be a very rare art form that is appreciated only by a select class of intelligensia.  Certainly we have some very old novels, such as the Metamorphoses by Apuleius to suggest that such art predates printing presses.  Whether the novel presently exists in Glorantha is up for debate.  I am prepared to suppose that it may have existed during the 2nd Age God Learner era, but it likely doesn't exist anymore.......

 

As i understand it if you go back to the RW bronze age, poetry and literature ore one:  Literature is oral rather than written,

Homeric poetry is generally regarded as having originally been oral, and only became written as the iron Age began.

https://www.britishmuseum.org/blog/who-was-homer

https://www.lib.uchicago.edu/collex/exhibits/homer-print-transmission-and-reception-homers-works/homer-print/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130227183320.htm

 

 

 

[g33k]

On 6/30/2023 at 4:45 AM, JRE said:

... Most people will not attend all holy day ceremonies, spend all free time developing new skills, learning new magics and obsessing about new magic items. They will slack all they can, never offer themselves volunteers, try to have minimal contact with powerful obsessed people like priests, shamans, sorcerors and PCs, and prefer if their interactions with the ruling powers are limited and very clear ...

I'm not so sure about this.  Not when the right priesthoods can make such a  huge  difference to your farming & ranching, every year.

I can see how the ordinary farmers & herders & crafters &c might want to avoid anyone "Thunderous" or "Adventurous" (giving One Particular Deity the side-eye here), but sucking-up to Ernalda & Uralda & Barntar & Gustbran & such-like is  very much  to the advantage of the Common Folk; it is their ordinary daily practice:  these deities  don't want you to go adventuring,  they want you to work the land, the crops, the herds, the workshops.

Don't forget the ordinary spirit-magic, the 1-point Heal's and Find's and such-like, which will be invaluable in most crofts & cottages.  Mostly, you learned those from the local Temple, not from some Libertarian Shaman who free-market'ed you out from under the Temple's thumb.

Also recall that Glorantha is a very magical world.  Will your Ordinary Joe & Joelle  really  avoid temple that hard?  They personally see the God Time events, every Holy Day.  Many of them have friends and family who are "Rune Levels."  And they know Rurox Cow-Whisperer, in the next village, who's buddy-buddy with the Uraldara and whose herds always make the very best milk & cheese (and lots of it!) and is vocal about the bennies of being buds with the priestess; hard to argue with eleven Clearwine Cheddar Champion awards!
 

 

On 6/30/2023 at 4:45 AM, JRE said:

... I have them preferring to sacrifice POW to the clan or town wyter so the chieftain can bless their unborn child, than spending days or weeks at the temple learning the magic, the myth and the power ...

But the chieftain is Orlanth Rex most likely by way of Thundrous or Adventurous; the wyter is following his agenda (& his predecessors'), and thus has a hefty chunk of magic in the "PC Adventurer" mode.

Sure, some "community support" magic is likely -- almost certain! -- but not enough to replace the  multiple other deities'  full array of Cult-Special Rune Magic.  You still need to go to those priesthoods for the majority of that magic.

 

On 6/30/2023 at 4:45 AM, JRE said:

... not because the aloof mother goddess will appreciate it ...

But she's not aloof!

See, the whole "aloof god/dess" image comes from our real-world, where prayed-for miracles usually fail to manifest and/or arrive with "could be just a coincidence" plausible deniability.

In Glorantha, most of the Earth Goddesses will love you in proximately-rewarding ways... better harvests, holy-day nookie, etc.  Heler will bring you rain (the few times they won't, you likely need those Rune Levels to come adventuring to Set Things Right... even if you mostly don't rub shoulders with Those People).

 

[Akhôrahil]

About pictures, this one (Ossi Hiekkala) is lovely.

[John Biles]

4 hours ago, g33k said:

IA bunch of stuff I agree with.

Glorantha is a place where even common farmers are knee-deep in magic and religion - it just isn't the dangerous adventuring kind as G33k pointed out.

Even the most mundane things have attached deities and myths which act as models.  (The Babylonians had a lion god who guards you while you're on the toilet, fighting off an evil lion god who likes to make people die on the toilet.  His biggest kill is probably Elvis.)

The prosperity gospel is, in fact, real in Glorantha, where worship provides demonstrable material benefits. 

But  a housewife is learning stories like how Ernalda learned to cook and how to make the grain goddess happy.

So I can't agree with the idea that the average Gloranthan avoids priests and religion - they just avoid the adventuring stuff.