LEGEND

[d10tavern]

Has it been mentioned already that you can get the full Legend core rules book in pdf format for just US$1 from drivethrurpg.com?

If only it were available with no art in epub format.

[dmccoy1693]

Plus the layers haven't been properly edited (some pictures are not in the background or artwork layers).

Redownload it. I believe this is fixed.

[Mankcam]

Wow, this is very generous. I wasn't going to buy the LEGEND core rules - I was to be continuing to support some of the settings source books, and I was just going to wait until RQ6 came out to buy a new rule set. But having the pdf core rules going for $1 !!! I just had to buy LEGEND out of curiosity, and more than happy to support Mongoose, its a nice gesture of them to do this with the pdf. Not sure if I'll get a hard copy (little reason with the pdf rules and the MRQ2 hard copy), but if its cheap enough I could buy it for a player.

In any case, the $1 pdf is too good to pass up, and certainly a nice way to intorduce LEGEND to the gaming community!

[d10tavern]

I'll probably be buying the PDF too for that price, even though I've never bought a gaming PDF before because my eyes get sore reading on a blacklit screen and PDFs don't work very well on ereaders, and I really wish there was an art-free epub version available.

[Jarulf]

and I really wish there was an art-free epub version available.

Another vote for epub, but I wouldn't mind if the art was still there.

[Chorpa]

Well that $1 sale on RPGNow got me to purchase the pdf.

I liked it so much I just ordered the print versions of Legend and Monsters of Legend. Also pre-ordered Arms of Legend and The Spider God's Bride that seems to be an excellent scenario book in the same spirit of Conan. Now I am just cursing myself for not getting it while it was MRQII. But better late then never.

[Mankcam]

Well considering the print versions are going reasonably cheap on the Mongoose site, I did pretty much the same thing, I have ordered the core rules and the monsters book directly from Mongoose, and have the Spider-God's Bride on pre-order. A bit of impulse buying, but hey, it's not breaking the bank.

Maybe the idea of the dirt-cheap core rules pdf wasn't just an odd business move after all, and I suspect the print copies will be selling reasonably well considering this is a 'new' game for the general public. Perhaps it is brand loyalty or curiosity from current BRP buyers that may be spiking sales; I suspect that sales are going quite well from everything I see mentioned, but it remains to be seen if LEGEND can become one of the top-selling rpgs or not - in any case the $1 pdf core rules has certainly rallied interest from current players who were not going to fork out cash for a system that they already had (I include myself in this).

So Mongoose has proven you actually can sell sand to an arab, heh heh - top marks, really!

[Chorpa]

Well we have to just wait and see how it develops. But so far it seems to go well for Legend. Who knows maybe Mongoose manage to bring back some of the glory from the 80s to d100 games. I am sure some of it will spread over to the other d100 games too.

[RosenMcStern]

So Mongoose has proven you actually can sell sand to an arab, heh heh - top marks, really!

I never doubted Mongoose Matt could sell sand to an Arab. Even dried sand, in fact. What I still wonder is why he did not do that with the "RuneQuest" brand when he owned it. Glorantha? I doubt this is the answer.

But, well, as this is a "What if", we will never know the answer

[frogspawner]

Mongoose RuneQuest never recovered from the appalling first edition. Me, I'll happily buy Legend stuff because it's good rules (by all accounts), is free of the MRQI taint - and it's not pretending to be real RuneQuest.

I expect these sales tactics are intended to hurt DM RuneQuest, though...

[RosenMcStern]

I fail to see what sort of "taint" has been removed in the passage from MRQII to Legend. The only thing that was removed from this last edition is Glorantha, and certainly I would not call Glorantha a "taint".

Furthermore, Legend is a BRP derivative, currently the best derivative available for fantasy (till RQ6 is out) so I cannot see any way it can be considered "not real RuneQuest". It is just not labeled as RuneQuest. But, as the Bard wrote, "What is in a name?"

As for the tactics being aimed at hurting TDM, well, maybe you are right. But aggressive competition is still _fair_ competition, so I see nothing wrong in this. TDM has deliberately chosen quality over time-to-market, allowing Mongoose a head start. Time will tell which product is more successful.

Oh, and by the way. Allow me to be very blunt. For the first time since 1978, we have seen an edition of "RuneQuest" without any Glorantha content. Sales have skyrocketed at once. Is this enough evidence to persuade the "old skoolers" that being inextricably coupled to Glorantha is not vital for the survivability of RuneQuest, and that the problem that lowered sales when moving from RQ2 to RQ3 was not the "generic" approach?

Edited December 8, 2011 by RosenMcStern

[NickMiddleton]

I fail to see what sort of "taint" has been removed in the passage from MRQII to Legend. The only thing that was removed from this last edition is Glorantha, and certainly I would not call Glorantha a "taint".

Re-read his post - he specifically refers to "the MRQI taint".

Oh, and by the way. Allow me to be very blunt. For the first time since 1978, we have seen an edition of "RuneQuest" without any Glorantha content. Sales have skyrocketed at once. Is this enough evidence to persuade the "old skoolers" that being inextricably coupled to Glorantha is not vital for the survivability of RuneQuest, and that the problem that lowered sales when moving from RQ2 to RQ3 was not the "generic" approach?

Not really (and I say this as someone who is far from a Gloranthaphile) since no previous edition has been available so cheaply - the Legend core book is £10, $1 in PDF. If the MRQII rulebook (or RQ3) had been that cheap who knows how well they might have sold...

Cheers,

Nick

[SDLeary]

I fail to see what sort of "taint" has been removed in the passage from MRQII to Legend. The only thing that was removed from this last edition is Glorantha, and certainly I would not call Glorantha a "taint".

I believe the "taint" being referred to is the "community outreach" conducted by Mongoose pre-RQI, then ignoring all the advice given on those forums and releasing a severly sub-standard product. That taint was removed when mRQII came out though.

Oh, and by the way. Allow me to be very blunt. For the first time since 1978, we have seen an edition of "RuneQuest" without any Glorantha content. Sales have skyrocketed at once. Is this enough evidence to persuade the "old skoolers" that being inextricably coupled to Glorantha is not vital for the survivability of RuneQuest, and that the problem that lowered sales when moving from RQ2 to RQ3 was not the "generic" approach?

Are you talking about the skyrocketing sales of Legend and its PDF. You don't think that might be due to the PDF's price? And just as a marketing note, my FLGS has NOT been overwhelmed with requests that they bring in Legend core books; the owners are generally quite responsive to those types of requests.

SDLeary

[SDLeary]

Nick beat me to it!

SDLeary

[lawrence.whitaker]

As for the tactics being aimed at hurting TDM, well, maybe you are right. But aggressive competition is still _fair_ competition, so I see nothing wrong in this.

Nothing wrong in it at all. Perhaps it is a tactic levelled squarely at Design Mechanism. Perhaps it isn't and Mongoose would still have priced the PDF at $1 even if we hadn't been around. It offers a spirited challenge though, and Design Mechanism's quite up for that.

[frogspawner]

Re-read his post - he specifically refers to "the MRQI taint".

Yeah, that's it. For me 1st Ed Mongoose RQ was such a pig ruleswise that it tarnished the "Mongoose RuneQuest" name enoughto put me off even the indubitably excellent MRQ2. But being able to get that under another name is very pleasing. (Doubly so at the cheap price, despite that being a transient side-effect of evil capitalism).

Old-time Glorantha was (is) great, but these days I can take it or leave it. (Which if it's '2nd Age' means - leave it).

[Mankcam]

Well I'll come out and plainly say I got suckered in by the low cost - first the pdfs, and then the print copies. I don't know if this is gaining new customers though, or if it's spiking the curiosity of the current fan base.

My purchase certainly won't stop me grabbing RQ6, and I suspect that for many who are currently playing MRQ2 it is actually RQ6 that is the biggie on the horizon, not so much LEGEND. LEGEND is literally the flavour of the day at present. I really hope it doesn't fade away either, but the current buzz is obviously related to practically giving away the core rules to any who was watching.

LEGEND will benefit from RQ6 as many of the LEGEND mechanics will be similar to RQ6, or similar enough to allow quick conversion. Hell, most GMs are probably buying a range of BRP systems, and just tinkering with each to get it down to their own preferred style of play. This is certainly what I do, and although I wouldn't do anything of the kind if I was to GM at a convention, my own private troupe gets to have our cake and eat it, just playing with the bits we like from all the BRP-related systems and settings.

I agree that BRP systems need to be devoid of a particular setting, at least in the core rules. AH RQ3 was under par when it came to supporting it's settings, and including both of them in the actual core rules was of minimal advantage to anyone. I'm obviously talking about Glorantha and Fantasy Earth. I'm glad Alephetar Games has taken up the baton for Fantasy Earth, that's been great for BRP, it's like fulfilling the obligations that AH started (only two or three AH Fantasy Earth supplements produced to my knowledge).

However there is also something 'limbic' about having Glorantha supported by the RQ system, and I welcome DM indicating that there will be Gloranthan source books on the horizon.

...and Mongoose would still have priced the PDF at $1 even if we hadn't been around.

Heh heh very doubtful

Edited December 8, 2011 by Mankcam

[RosenMcStern]

Ahhhh, I knew the can of worm I was opening would be big...

Are you talking about the skyrocketing sales of Legend and its PDF. You don't think that might be due to the PDF's price? And just as a marketing note, my FLGS has NOT been overwhelmed with requests that they bring in Legend core books; the owners are generally quite responsive to those types of requests.

I think FLGS are quite angry with what happened with RQ lately: three editions in a row, and lots of unsold, OOP remains on their shelves (some have still some MRQ1 stuff). So this kind of reaction does not surprise me at all. But the book is selling in print format, too.

However, the general response to Legend by the users is rather good, and I am sure you will see it appear more often on the shelves as a reaction to the excellent PDF sales (boys, gold medal on DriveThru is a LOT of sales). The $1 pricing was a winning move, as it helped wash out some of the bad reputation that accompanied MRQ (both 1 and 2) due to some poor editing. And this time they DID listen to customers! Both the license and the cover were changed according to popular demand, and mistakes in the PDFs were fixed in a matter of hours. If only he had behaved this way before...

[rust]

It has recently been quite common to offer the PDF of a game's core rules for

a very low price or even for free, I have more than a dozen of such games on

my backup disc, from Eclipse Phase to Stars Without Number, so I would hesi-

tate to see Legend's low price as aggressive competition - it is currently just

one of the common methods to push a game into the market.

[Mankcam]

I never doubted Mongoose Matt could sell sand to an Arab. Even dried sand, in fact.

Heh heh

[Pete Nash]

If anything Mongoose is helping to pave the way for RQ6 since they are widening the market interest for d100 products, and material written by Loz and me which Matt kindly praises in his most recent State of the Mongoose. So I for one am happy at the sudden burst of popularity raised by releasing a loss-leader and an OGL one at that.

[seneschal]

I'm of two minds. I agree that the proliferation of Basic Roleplaying variants is good for players and third-party developers; it's not just stuck in the Call of Cthulhu ghetto anymore. The venerable game system will survive in some form or another, whatever Chaosium's fortunes, and a multiplicity of publishers casts a wider net for new fans. That's what we've been clamoring for since this web site began.

On the other hand, it is potentially confusing to would-be customers to have multiple current versions of essentially the same game system running around, as threads at RPG.net indicate. Personally, since I already own the Big Gold Book, the BRP Quick-Start Edition, GORE, and a PDF version of Mongoose RuneQuest I, I don't see the benefit of "upgrading" to Legend or RuneQuest 6 or whatever else is in the works. That's not a knock against hard-working developers. It's just a matter of how much BRP/RuneQuest/Legend/OpenQuest/Aeon/GORE/Call of Cthulhu/etc. (pants for breath) goodness is enough, especially since several of these variants are straight rules without a specific setting. It's analogous in some ways to the multiple OD&D retro-clones or the various flavors of Rolemaster.

[rust]

On the other hand, it is potentially confusing to would-be customers to have multiple current versions of essentially the same game system running around ...

It is confusing. If I would get 10,- Euro each time I am asked why there are so many

different d100 systems, or what the differences are, or which one is the best, I could

retire on my own Caribbean island.

[Thalaba]

Personally, since I already own the Big Gold Book, the BRP Quick-Start Edition, GORE, and a PDF version of Mongoose RuneQuest I, I don't see the benefit of "upgrading" to Legend or RuneQuest 6 or whatever else is in the works.

That's a fair enough comment and IMO reflective of the broadening of the hobby in general with so many games of different stripes.

I'm not sure if 'upgrading' to a new set of rules is really the point, though. All of the BRP systems are so compatible that they are almost interchangeable with little work, and the system has always been very popular with tinkerers anyway. Which means the value in the rule books isn't really in the rules themselves. I think this is reflected in the fact that Mongoose is selling theirs for as low as they are. The value for them is in the supplementary material, and they can reach a broader market by making the buy-in to the supplements lower. And as Pete said, this benefits everybody.

Loz and Pete, from my understanding, are choosing a different model - a value-added model, where the rule book comes not only with the rules, but more things besides, including evocative artwork, GM advice, and so on. Although they are spending quite a bit of effort to improve the rules, I suspect that's in part professional pride (they want to build a reputation for quality over quantity) and in part because they want to appeal to the grognards as the bearer of the RQ name. But I suspect that even so RQ6 is intended to be seen as much more than just a rulebook.

Well, that's my take, anyway. I could be completely wrong!

Edited December 10, 2011 by Thalaba

[d10tavern]

I don't know if this is gaining new customers though, or if it's spiking the curiosity of the current fan base.

I'm a new customer that wouldn't have bought otherwise. I haven't been following RuneQuest so I wouldn't consider myself to be part of the established fan base.

I hope Mongoose does very well with these sales, both of the cheap PDF and the lower-priced print book. So many companies seem to forget these days that if they make their products reasonably priced, they can sell more of then and end up making more money.