Brootse Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) Some earlier books said that they do, but I would have thought that that runs contrary to them collecting large libraries. Why not just then have book barbeques if their gods like that? Edited January 29, 2019 by Brootse typo in the title 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leingod Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 The cult of Lhankor Mhy seems to do it, as sacrifices are exempted from the general proscription against destroying books and knowledge. I don't think it's considered a problem because, most likely, they just use redundant copies for that kind of thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Godspeed Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 14 minutes ago, Leingod said: The cult of Lhankor Mhy seems to do it, as sacrifices are exempted from the general proscription against destroying books and knowledge. I don't think it's considered a problem because, most likely, they just use redundant copies for that kind of thing. They might even specifically make copies for sacrifices. To make sure the copy is clean/ritually pure, or whatever (and, conveniently, redundant, as you said.) 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brootse Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 The gods already know what their worshippers know, so do LM and IO just want to decorate their divine scroll shelves? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leingod Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 The writing down of knowledge is itself a sacred act to Lhankor Mhy, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's more the point than the actual knowledge itself that's being offered up, or at least a major part of the sacrifice's significance. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brootse Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, Leingod said: The writing down of knowledge is itself a sacred act to Lhankor Mhy, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's more the point than the actual knowledge itself that's being offered up, or at least a major part of the sacrifice's significance. That's a nice explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Godspeed Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 I'm sure Orlanth has the greatest herds of cattle a Storm Worshipper could ever conceive of, yet here they are burning offerings to him. It's more about continuously reaffirming the relationship of devotee-deity rather than material gain (or rather, the material gain lies in the relationship, not necessarily in what is being exchanged - if that makes any sense). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g33k Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 I could imagine inks and parchments and vellums and what-have-you's made specifically to be used to create sacrificial tomes. 1 Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leingod Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, g33k said: I could imagine inks and parchments and vellums and what-have-you's made specifically to be used to create sacrificial tomes. Seems likely. As written in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes... Quote Cult Rules for Writing Documents Writing is an act of worship by the initiates of Lhankor Mhy and initiates writing in temple scriptoria must: 1. Only use clean animal skins, both to write on, and even to bind manuscripts. 2. Make each column of writing with no less than forty-eight, and no more than sixty lines. 3. Use only black ink, of the proper recipe. 4. Verbalize each word aloud while writing. 5. Store documents only in sacred places (temple libraries, etc.). 6. Never destroy a document written in the Sacred Script (sacrifice to Lhankor Mhy is not counted). Edited January 29, 2019 by Leingod 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Godspeed Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 18 minutes ago, Leingod said: 4. Verbalize each word aloud while writing. Well, clearly! Imagine reading or writing without speaking the words out loud. Such a thing is unimaginable! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) Using smoke to send prayers to the gods has long been part of human history. What is burnt clearly varies as well. I’m not sure what we call books actually exist in Glorantha, but certainly all kinds of Bronze Age media exist, some may be vellum or plant fibre “pages” with a protective cover, some might be loose bound leaves in boxes, like some sutras. Book burning likely takes a different form for knowledge sages. Kindling made to look like a rolled scroll case, small clay tablets that are inscribed and when burnt become blank. Magic writings on slips of “paper” burnt for magic. We know that there are factions within the cult, Completionists might be the ones that burn only simulated media, Ivalists, will be burning second age documents like there’s no tomorrow. See Sartar KoH page 163: Quote The modern Lhankor Mhy cult is deeply suspicious of all things foreign. Completionists (called by others “forbidden temples”) still collect foreign writings and allow the sages to study them. At the other extreme, Ivalists destroy all sorcerous writings. Others destroy the most dangerous sorcery but study that which is not tainted by Gbaji. Edited January 30, 2019 by David Scott added forgotten name 1 Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDLeary Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said: They might even specifically make copies for sacrifices. To make sure the copy is clean/ritually pure, or whatever (and, conveniently, redundant, as you said.) Probably embellishing with much more scrollwork and illustrations/illumination. The copy has to be fit for their god after all! SDLeary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDLeary Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, David Scott said: Using smoke to send prayers to the gods has long been part of human history. What is burnt clearly varies as well. I’m not sure what we call books actually exist in Glorantha, but certainly all kinds of Bronze Age media exist, some may be vellum or plant fibre “pages” with a protective cover, some might be loose bound leaves in boxes, like some sutras. I would also think something along the lines of ancient Chinese bamboo scrolls as well. Small flat staves bound top and bottom. This also provides a somewhat uniform "lined" surface to write upon... Ancient filler paper! SDLeary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 21 hours ago, Brootse said: Some earlier books said that they do, but I would have thought that that runs contrary to them collecting large libraries. Their offerings are donations to the libraries. No burning needed. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius West Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, jajagappa said: Their offerings are donations to the libraries. No burning needed. Thanks Jajagappa, I would have thought so. The notion of burning books is a bit...wrong. The notion of paying for the comissioning of a new book to be scribed as a "sacrifice" of the funds involved towards the binding and scribing of a new work seems infinitely prefereable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Godspeed Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 18 hours ago, SDLeary said: I would also think something along the lines of ancient Chinese bamboo scrolls as well. Small flat staves bound top and bottom. This also provides a somewhat uniform "lined" surface to write upon... Ancient filler paper! SDLeary Birch bark is also useful in temperate/subarctic/high-altitude areas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofElfland Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 A sacrificial burning of a book may be the way to dispose of a book that is deteriorating, assuming a proper copy has been made. They can’t dispose books otherwise, but a rotting book can be a danger to a library. The analogy would be the scribal destruction of old copies of the Hebrew Bible as new copies were made, also the ceremonial disposal of flags. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roko Joko Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 About burning a whole library, it might not work if you do it impiously. But it might work at first. Another thing that might not make it work so well is if you don't understand what you're burning. Like if you haven't read it at all, or stole it from some foreigners and can't read it - well, maybe that sacrifice will not yield anything. A scroll you copied yourself, devotionally, is probably the best sacrifice. But I think scrolls from rival scholars will work, too. 2 Quote What really happened? The only way to discover that is to experience it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott-martin Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 On 1/29/2019 at 10:53 AM, Brootse said: Some earlier books said that they do, but I would have thought that that runs contrary to them collecting large libraries. Why not just then have book barbeques if their gods like that? Giving a text to the god under the right ritual circumstances can keep it out of enemy Knowledge cult hands or preserve the information if its destruction looks inevitable anyway. However once that happens, you need to source secondary copies or else burn Divination points to borrow it back from god. At seven words per point Divination gets slow and expensive. 1 Quote singer sing me a given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Our RQ2 Lhankor Mhy Sage could famously never burn a book, nor could he let a book be burned. However, if sacrificing the book or scroll means that the sacrificed material travels to Lhankor Mhy's Library, then that might be acceptable. 3 Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecake Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 They sacrifice books and scrolls because the burnt part goes direct to Lhankor Mhy. When you burn an animal sacrifice, you are offering the god food directly. When you burn a scroll, you are offering Lhankor Mhy reading material. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I wonder if there is a tradition, that allows for the creation of knowledge scribed onto clay tablets, which when 'burnt' bakes the tablet into a ceramic, thus fixing the knowledge onto the tablet 'permanently'? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 On 1/31/2019 at 7:42 AM, davecake said: When you burn a scroll, you are offering Lhankor Mhy reading material. In the same way that Thanatari can consume a book to pass the knowledge to a thanatar cultist, I assume that this also goes to Thanatar himself. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 17 hours ago, soltakss said: In the same way that Thanatari can consume a book to pass the knowledge to a thanatar cultist, I assume that this also goes to Thanatar himself. This was part of my thought on why Lhankor Mhy would not willingly burn scrolls - it would be like offering an offering to Thanatar or Oakfed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Lhankor Mhy is a Lightbringer, so I could imagine scholars burning books tainted by chaos, such as a book of Atyar knowledge consuming skill, or a book which teaches mastery of the lunar magic system. To study such a thing would be to risk your sanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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