Darius West

This is an excellent approach to a knotty little problem. If the matter ever arises, I will adopt this answer.

The idea of a trickster shrine with actual worshippers is not without precedent, but hoo boy is that character signing on for some trouble. Tricksters don't play well with others, including other tricksters. It's not that they are crazy berserkers like ZZs or Uroxi, but they are compulsive scammers, cheats, liars, troublemakers, lunatics and sometimes they are given to the murderer aspect. The God Learners tried to create a Great Temple to the Trickster in Maniria, and shortly after its creation the entire city winked out of existence (if my memory serves). The trickster character in question should be advised to simply pay an Ikadz worshipper to torture him if he is that much of a masochist. I don't know if this is the way most people play trickster shrines, but in my Glorantha trickster shrines can be found by tricksters using divination. These sites don't have a large group of worshippers, but will be small, out of the way features where a trickster can go to worship on their own. It's not that other tricksters can't be present, but they are inclined to annoy each other. Sites will include things like a disused drinking fountain that connects to a septic tank, or a gold wheel that is solidly glued to the ground and cannot be moved, or really pornographic knotholes in the timber on a wall in an alley. Tricksters may well find other tricksters lurking around such sites, but it is a moot point if they really want to acknowledge each other. Yes there are. The Wooden Sword is the classic example. Certain sufficiently charged holy items/relics can act as a conduit to a deity and serve as a mobile focus of worship, that forego the usual requirements of hundreds of gathered worshippers. It is possible, if not likely, that such a relic could exist for trickster, but do you seriously think any single trickster ever hangs on to it for long? That thing will be passed around like an Alabama cousin.

I agree. I think the Colymar have already been "trodden underfoot", and Kangharl is trying to be a pragmatist and mitigate their unfortunate position by getting onboard with the invaders, much like many Gaulish and Briton chiefs did when defeated by the Romans. Events culminating with the death of Orlanth after the fall of Whitewall were a long list of Lunar victories, and one could be forgiven for becoming disillusioned I think. One aspect of this which is worth drawing attention to, is that the Lunars don't appear to have been nearly as genocidal as the Romans during their occupations of Tarsh and Sartar. Defeated tribes were normally driven into slavery and ceased to exist. even during the Bronze Age on Earth. The Lunars certainly don't seem to have many qualms about committing atrocities, given that they have the Crimson Bat in their lineup, so the question then becomes "Why not?". To my mind, the crucial factor here is the leadership of Fazzur Wideread. I suspect that without Fazzur that the Lunars would have likely been unable to take Sartar, at least not without drowning the Sartarites in blood i.e. outrageous Lunar casualties. Fazzur, being a Tarshite native, was notoriously well informed about the peoples of Dragon Pass, and he understood how to negotiate with the Orlanthi tribal and clan system; how to play the clans and tribes off against each other, and how to use the threat of Lunar force in place of the actual costly exercise of military power. Fazzur likely understood that dead people are worthless to everyone but Delecti, and that a ruined country can't pay tax, but most importantly, that he could leverage the carrot and stick of the threat of force and the potential for political and financial support so that the leaders of the tribes and clans would eventually realize that there were more benefits to supporting the Lunars than opposing them. This is perhaps why the people of Sartar weren't simply rounded up and sold into slavery. I think Kangharl "did the maths" and realized that he was unlikely to see an Orlanthi victory in his lifetime, and that was almost true, as his last moments slipping down the Brown Dragon's gullet were a pretty decisive Orlanthi victory and a very effective application of terrorism.

Yes. They can marry anyone who will put up with them. Same as anyone else. Actually no. Vingans have no specific marriage arrangements. Mostly they stay single, drifting in and out of year marriages, as they are warriors first, so much like other people who spend extended periods travelling, their relationships tend to be a bit disposable. That being said, a Vingan doesn't generally bring much property to a marriage, so she would most likely only be able to negotiate an underwife position, which would be unpalatable. Of course if she has piles of loot that might be a different story. Most Orlanth Pantheon women spend their youth organizing a decent dowry to avoid becoming an underwife to a richer older man. Some say that the henna Vingans use for keeping their hair red is a useful contraceptive. As an expedient I play that women cultivate sylphium in their veggie gardens, which serves much the same function as our oral contraception. Of course most Earth worshippers regard children as a blessing, but after your 8th such self-fouling little blessing, the novelty can wear off and economic reality begins to really pinch. It isn't that Vingans can't look after children, or don't know how, but that isn't the life they have chosen. They are the mad warrior aunt who drops in to teach the kids swordplay, or guards them while they go mushrooming. Mostly Vingans don't put themselves in that position overly often. Vinga is a Thunder Brother. Followers of Orlanth can pray to her as an associated cult to get her blessing of fearlessness. I would suggest that rather than a book devoted to Vinga alone, we REALLY need a book that covers all the various Thunder Brothers, and their cults and abilities, that includes Vinga.

Some newtling's momma got around methinks.

Raw ambition is also a thing. It is an uncomfortable decision to make, but some Sartarites got pragmatic and decided to make the best of the occupation by towing the Lunar party line, thinking that the Lunars had won and it was futile to resist. Kangharl saw the opportunity to cement his leadership, and to get not only Lunar support but a better deal for his tribe financially. No magic involved.

What people are assiduously ignoring is that the main area still under the Syndics Ban is Brithos. Where Brithos used to sit, there is now a big cloud of silvery mist; my, doesn't that sound familiar? Remember that Snodal used the ritual murder of the God of Silver Feet to invoke the Ban, and he did that to avoid Zzabur sinking Fronela, so it was less Loskalmi magical dumping, and more a cut/paste of Gloranthan reality, using Loskalm's rejected shadow as the editing tool. So effectively the various snipped areas have been sitting in the buffer or have been "saved to notepad" (now that's a form of Irensavalism that most people don't suspect).😄 It is interesting that the Lunars have been meddling with these areas, but since the return of the Boat Planet, the spell has been crumbling, or more correctly "Thawing". Of course that presupposes that the lands in question have been frozen in time. This might be true of the Rathori who hibernated, but most of these places seem to have been going their merry way without reference to the outside world, and the KoW is no different. It is also worth pointing out that the KoW is not the only area liberated by the Thaw, it is just the most problematic. There are actually multiple areas affected, and most of them are not half so dangerous as the KoW. I mean, you have the Uncolings of Porent, the Golden Tyrant and Yelm worshippers of Southbank, Timms, Mortasor, Riverjoin etc. In any case I don't buy the idea that the KoW is the rejected shadow of the Loskalmi. Loskalm practices meritocratic feudalism, but feudal order is implicitly a military order. Yes there is the caste system, but look how the society is composed. King, wizards, warriors, peasantry. It is a place where you become a good farmer so you can join the military caste, not a place where you become a good soldier so you can join the peasantry, and live out your days honing your skill as an artisan. Peace may be a Loskalmi ideal, but Chalana Arroys they are not. Just as the Vadeli offer a novel logical spin on the castes of Brithos, the Kingdom of War is merely a more logical form of military organization than Loskalm has.😉 As to the Lunar idea that the Kingdom of War is morally neutral, well, perhaps for a culture that uses chaos monsters as shock troops this is true, but it is only true in a relative sense. If the Lunars themselves were less morally reprehensible, they would probably see a ravening horde of war hungry serial killer honed by centuries of isolation in murder-crazy-land as a bad thing, and not a potential political opportunity to cause trouble for their bothersome neighbors. 😛

The naming process for clans has no specific system to it that has ever been alluded to. Sometimes they will be named for the new chief (Lismelder). Sometimes they will be named for a feature of the landscape (Bayberry). Sometimes they will be named for a totem animal (Swan). Sometimes they will even be named for a commodity they produce (Green Stone), or a cult spirit local to their new location. Sometimes names are provisional, sometimes they stick, sometimes abusive nicknames become clan names over time. I suspect that a wise clan may choose to perform a series of divinations with their ancestors and their gods to insure that their new name is acceptable and well-omened. I suspect that the new clan is provisionally named for the leader until a new name is chosen, likely after a proper reconnaissance of their new tula is performed. How long is a piece of string? 🙂 Again... How long is a piece of string? 🙂 If the clan splitting off is doing so with the blessing of its parent clan, and their resources backing the move, then it is likely to be well organized, with arrangements made for the people moving through other clan territories in advance, all but providing depots for them to stop along the way, and with the site for the new tula explored in advance. More commonly, the split is acrimonious, and the parent clan is furious with the absconders. It may be that the new ring are clued in to a good location, or have made a deal in advance. It is likely that the new leader is an opportunist who realized that their chances for promotion in the previous clan setting had been dashed due to them losing trust with the hierarchy. It is just as likely that poor leadership has caused elements of the old clan to become disenchanted with their ring. It is also possible for a clan to become the victim of its own success e.g. when a clan reaches 2500+ population, and the local nature spirits get upset at how much of the wilderness is being "pasturized". A scenario which isn't generally encountered is when a clan is repeatedly and horribly hammered on by feuding neighbours, with their steads burned, their people taken as thralls, and their livestock and treasure plundered, and a couple of hundred survivors fleeing to a distant place a long way away. This might also be the case if the clan picks a fight they can't win with a local power like the another much stronger clan or tribe, or the Lunars, or the Grazelanders, or the Trolls, the Aldryami/Naure spirits, or the Beast Folk, i.e. a militia of spare time warriors face off against a real military power. This situation is essentially a refugee story where the survivors split into cadres and wander the land before eventually finding a place where there is land to spare, and living hand-to-mouth off the land and the charity of others. Many will be seized as thralls for doing this, others will be absorbed into other tribes and clans, but some might find a new place and set about finding the survivors and trying to start again. If you ask me, this sounds the most interesting option, but it might be a good idea if the players have a clue that this is what they are signing on for so they don't become too disheartened too early (unless as a GM, this raw emotional reaction is what you are hoping to invoke).

Yeah, the Enclosure version of Shargash didn't include the whole Shargash/Tolat/Red Planet issue, but it was a more entertaining read, and in many ways grounded Alkoth and its role in Dara Happa more clearly within the literature. I personally like and enjoy regional granularity in cults. I am not interested in the fact that Shargash and Tolat are the same god, I am interested in how the cult of Alkoth differs from the cult of the Amazons. Clearly they should have different associated cults, variance in the mythology, and differing forms of worship and standards of admission. Yes there will be similarities, but they are in essence quite different cults, in the same way Japanese Hidden Christianity was massively different to the Roman Catholicism that began it. For this reason I really enjoyed the Enclosure version of Shargash, and was a bit underwhelmed by the RQ:GoG version by comparison.

Yep. My bad. Thx. Corrected in text.

Yeah, fair enough. On the issue of the Trickster flaw, I never liked it. It is silly and arbitrary but in the wrong way. Having GMed a few tricksters now, and even played a couple, a well played trickster really doesn't need this. They make their own fun by coming up with hairbrained schemes that work in the short term, until people get wise to them, then they blow up in the trickster's face. Trickster's cannot "build"; nothing they do leads to stability, and any structure or organization they interact with can only be worse for it, unless they anticipate and accept the need for disorder to keep from becoming stale. That is why the Yelm Pantheon hates Tricksters, but the Orlanthi accept them, but on a leash.

Sar- from Shar-. Given Shargash, it checks out. Gain +1% Speak God Tongue.

Actually, the Issaries cult has Eurmal listed as an associated deity who gives Issaries worshippers the rune spell Clever Tongue. Besides, any trickster worth a poo sandwich knows to hang around on the edge of the Market spell if they are up to no good. How do they know where the edge is? The carved poles! Der! 😆

Shargash did have Crush in the previous write-up in The Enclosure. Not so in RQ:GoG. It's removal is a bit of a shame. I enjoyed the whole "Gilgamesh on PCP" aesthetic that a berserk sun worshipper with a spear and a club invoked.

The fact is, if your character happens to be in Far Point prior to 1625, and even during 1625, the Yelmalio versus Elmal fight is still being played out according to KoS. Harvar Ironfist has been seeking to forcibly convert the tribes of Far Point to the worship of Yelmalio. When the worship of Orlanth was outlawed, many Far Pointers chose to worship Elmal and "defend their steads". Obviously this didn't please the Lunar Occupiers, and the next step in control and assimilation of the area was to enforce the worship of the new god (I do hope Chaosium is not following this example 😜). Of course Ironfist is vigorously opposed by the intransigent tribe of heroes, the Tovtari, but at great cost to the tribe. The boggy uplands that hang above Snakepipe Hollow have always been dangerous, and the Tovtari have a home ground advantage there, so it has been hard going for Lunar and Yelmalio punitive expeditions to make headway. Steads have been burned (well, smoked, it's all too waterlogged from the Sky River storm to actually burn), moss covered sheep stolen, and families put to flight by the religious persecution, which is really shorthand for broader political persecution in the service of Empire. The Tovtari never bent the knee. The Tovtari know that the Hero Wars started with them in 1602 when the Household of Death failed at the Temple of the Reaching Moon, and Far Point became occupied. For the Tovtari, there is no compromise; Elmal is not Yelmalio. They will never bend their knee to Yelm, or Dara Happan tyranny, because they are the Hero Tribe who hold the line between the chaos of Snakepipe Hollow and the rest of Sartar.

Here's one for the ages... There are a whole group of broos who have no chaos taint, at large in the world, but most people never twig to the fact. They are called satyrs.

Surely broos who lack the chaos taint are just satyrs? *chuckle* Imma gonna post that on "your dumbest theories" now 😄.

It reminds me of a pilot friend from back in the 1980s who had to plot his courses on a half dozen flight maps that were invariably spread out in a similar fashion. I love the random color schemes and especially that snippet of the Far Point map that joins Tarsh to Dagori Inkarth. It is great that they are all more-or-less to scale.

My take is this... Mythology is life for everyone in Glorantha. For them, mythology is their science, and they know it is true because it produces reliable outcomes, because of magic. As a result, everybody grows up steeped in myths, and this is a good part of their education. They don't have TV, so of an evening, after they have eaten and discussed the events of the day and made plans for tomorrow, the people of Glorantha will likely tell a few myths while gathered around the hearth. Now when guests come over, they will be encouraged to tell the myths they know that you don't know. Of particular interest will be having a sage come over, as then you can ask some really knotty mythological questions that vex you. So if you don't understand who invented the Lightbringer's Quest, then the sage will explain who Harmast Barefoot was, and why, politically, he needed to perform the Lightbringer's quest to you as an audience, with the intention of explaining the situation clearly to you. Similarly if you don't like meldeks and godlearners, but don't understand what they are, there will be people in your acquaintance who know and will explain it to you. Mythology thus becomes a process of lifetime learning/indoctrination. Even heroes will not know all the myths and their permutations, despite having a lawyerly understanding of the ins and outs of the mythological relationships that make the world of Glorantha. Mostly people will specialize in the lore of their particular cult. Yes, I sympathize Bill. Let's call this player's behavior what it is; metagaming. I can also understand the temptation to metagame. It unfortunately shows a certain lack of maturity as a RPGer imo. The only fix I can offer is one I used to muzzle a similar problem. As a GM faced with similar problems I ruled that characters could only have such privileged knowledge if they made a skill roll for an appropriate mythological lore. This was back in RQ3 when knowledge skills weren't subject to experience rolls, but required sitting down with books or a teacher for hours on end. This took the edge off the metagaming abuses quite well, while allowing new characters to develop their skills and learn new things that their character knew that they as players didn't know. It was also pretty funny having my meta-gamer character sitting there in utter frustration, chafing at the bit to blurt out what he knew, but unable to because he had muffed the roll. I had to remind him to bite his tongue and play his character from a position of ignorance, and enjoy that opportunity. Ultimately he realized the absurdity of his situation and played up his character's ignorance for laughs, and enjoyed it, so I tacitly rewarded his behavior by allowing his ignorance to open up an opportunity that acting from position of knowledge would not have offered. I did enjoy the schadenfreude of watching him squirm though.

Based on what I have read about Prax, and various nomad cultures, oases in the Wasteland are not necessarily neutral ground. Particular clans of Praxian tribes will control them by force. As a charity/courtesy, and to keep the peace, they may (but are not obliged to) offer other groups access to water. This is an act of good will, and a means of minimizing conflict when the environment is being enough of an enemy for everyone. Similar protection and even hospitality will also be offered when chaos is on the move and the tribes need to band together against it. Against type, it can be argued that Storm Bull is actually a unifying and pacifying force among the Praxians, capable of bringing warring parties to their senses. Think about that for a moment 😄. The Neutral Ground idea likely applies primarily to markets, which will be available to anyone who can cross the territory controlled by the Praxian clan. In terms of formal greetings, there are ritual challenges that other Praxians can face to gain entry to an oasis, but they won't be given these courtesies if their clan is challenging the present occupiers for control of the oasis.

Source?

He gave of his tears... (Cheaper than magic points).

All lies... 😉

How about, the damage it rolls gets added to the roll for hit location?

It is perfectly possible to see Eurmal as the model of right action if you don't know you are looking at Eurmal. Charisma, Lie, and illusions spells are like that. Also remember than many gurus are rascals who get you to do the wrong thing to educate you as to why the right path is important, and to teach you to have courage in the face of making mistakes.