RQ 3e - Avalon Hill or Games Workshop?

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

When I was in high school, way back in the 1980's, I purchased the Avalon Hill boxed set (Deluxe) of RuneQuest but never got to play it.

As I don't care for Glorantha as a setting, I prefer using my own, I am considering diving back in. Now I see there are Games Workshop versions, as well as a bunch of version from Avalon Hill.

What are the differences between them all? I don't know, can anyone tell me?

Thanks in advance!

BE HEROIC!

[AndrewTBP]

I own both. The GW edition got reorganised in a way that made it harder to follow. The AH edition isn’t durable, being soft books in a box. 

[Nick Brooke]

They’re different ways of slicing the same material. You have everything if you’ve got the Avalon Hill RQ3 Deluxe box (containing books 1-5), apart from the (often rather generic) fantasy artwork added to the Games Workshop editions.

Avalon Hill variants include: Players Box (just books 1&2); Game Masters Box (just books 3-5); Standard RQ (abbreviated rules); and the one-volume perfect-bound RQ3 rulebook.

Games Workshop printed UK editions of the Standard (cut-down) rules, calling it “RuneQuest,” and also an “Advanced RuneQuest,” which added back everything that had been cut, apart from monsters, which featured in GW’s “RQ Monsters” book (same as RQ book 4, plus pregen stats from the Monster Coliseum boxed set). GW didn’t incorporate book 5 (introduction to Glorantha) into their line; their edition only has some of the Gloranthan monster stats in its rulebooks.

The currently-supported edition of RuneQuest is the seventh edition, called “RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha.” It’s published by Chaosium, and you’ll find it is very similar to RQ3.

Previous editions that are still sort-of available are “Mythras” (formerly RQ6) from the Design Mechanism, and “Legend” (formerly Mongoose RuneQuest, second edition) from Mongoose. The less said about Mongoose’s first edition, the better. Chaosium has also reissued almost all the pre-Avalon Hill (RQ2) publications as the RuneQuest Classics line. RQ1 only exists as a facsimile reprint, and I’ve only ever heard of one person still playing it (but he talks about it a lot).

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

Initially we had 2ed GW edition. Later I bought into the GW 3ed. As Nick says RQ3 was split up into 3 books for the GW edition:

• Runequest 
• Advanced Runequest
• Monsters 

The first book “RuneQuest” was available in softback and hardback.

Later on in the early nineties during the RuneQuest renaissance, AH republished the RuneQuest 3 rules in a combined softback book, with an errata included at the back. The illustrations and layout were the same as found in the AH Deluxe box set. You can probably find the errata on line (maybe even on this forum) if you’d rather go for the box set or GW editions.

The latest edition of RuneQuest Glorantha is IMO a good balance between RQ2 and RQ3 with some new aspects added like passions, runes, and tweaked magic. It’s my favourite RQ rules edition to date. Easy to borrow from too.

But if RQ3 is your thing and a rule set without the Glorantha background is important then probably best to stick with what you know. 

 

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

13 minutes ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Later on in the early nineties during the RuneQuest renaissance, AH republished the RuneQuest 3 rules in a combined softback book, with an errata included at the back. The illustrations and layout were the same as found in the AH Deluxe box set. You can probably find the errata on line (maybe even on this forum) if you’d rather go for the box set or GW editions.

<snip>

But if RQ3 is your thing and a rule set without the Glorantha background is important then probably best to stick with what you know. 

Compiled book from AH!?!?! On my radar! Thanks 🙂

As for Glorantha, yeah, not a fan, so the new RQ might drive me insane. 🙂 

[Brian Duguid]

56 minutes ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

Compiled book from AH!?!?! On my radar! Thanks 🙂

This one, if you need the details for eBay etc: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/avalon-hill/ah8570-runequest-deluxe-edition-softback/

[AndreJarosch]

43 minutes ago, Brian Duguid said:

This one, if you need the details for eBay etc: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/avalon-hill/ah8570-runequest-deluxe-edition-softback/

The last book published for RQ3 by Avalon Hill. 

[Rick Meints]

11 minutes ago, AndreJarosch said:

The last book published for RQ3 by Avalon Hill. 

The RQ3 Deluxe perfect bound rulebook (8570) was published by Avalon Hill in 1993. Lords of Terror (8595) was published by Avalon Hill in 1995.

[Rick Meints]

11 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

When I was in high school, way back in the 1980's, I purchased the Avalon Hill boxed set (Deluxe) of RuneQuest but never got to play it. As I don't care for Glorantha as a setting, I prefer using my own, I am considering diving back in. Now I see there are Games Workshop versions, as well as a bunch of version from Avalon Hill. What are the differences between them all? I don't know, can anyone tell me?

Here's what I say in the MIG:
While Avalon Hill released its early boxed sets of the rules and the first few supplements in the US, Games Workshop in the UK took a far different marketing and packaging approach. Instead of boxes, they published hardcover books with far better layout and artwork for less money. They published 5 main books in total, plus a 16 page RQ Preview promotional item:

4616 – RuneQuest - Fantasy Roleplaying Adventure, 96 pages, 1987 (hardcover), 1989 (softcover).
4628 – Advanced RuneQuest, 159 pages, 1987 (hardcover).
4630 – Griffin Island, 144 pages, 1987 (hardcover). Had a bit of additional content.
4655 – Land of Ninja, 144 pages, 1987 (hardcover).
4667 – Monsters, 112 pages, 1987 (hardcover). Included info and stats from Monster Coliseum.

Besides splitting the contents of the rules between the three books as previously mentioned, all the books had different covers, additional internal color art, and a different layout. The books all suffer from poor binding, and it is common that pages become loose very quickly.

[deleriad]

25 minutes ago, Rick Meints said:

far better layout and artwork for less money

The less money bit I agree with but the rest I'm not so sure of. There were some randomly inserted colour plates and sub-Warhammer illustrations that had little to do with what was going on and tonally at odds with the source material. The way they cut up standard and advanced also made the game largely unplayable without both. And, as you say the binding was also terrible.

Obviously they were trying to recapture the success of their UK printings of RQ2 and CoC but that window had shut. 

As a UK RQ player who had forked out my life savings for RQ3 I was excited at first to see GW producing UK prints but they left a bad taste in my mouth. Funnily enough, my RQ3 boxed set has held up a lot better than the hardbacks despite many years of intense use. 

[Kloster]

10 minutes ago, deleriad said:

As a UK RQ player who had forked out my life savings for RQ3 I was excited at first to see GW producing UK prints but they left a bad taste in my mouth. Funnily enough, my RQ3 boxed set has held up a lot better than the hardbacks despite many years of intense use. 

As a french player that found AH products too much expensive, I was very happy to find the GW ones, with their much lower price tag and even if illos were often not appropriate, they were better than most of the AH ones. Now, my GW bindings are broken, and I still use my AH ones 35 years later. Of course, most of my usage was with Oriflam's french version, which was prettier, less expensive and more sturdy (especially the hardcover one): most of my players were/are not english users.

[smiorgan]

If you want to have a copy of RQ3, the AH RQ Deluxe boxed set is the best option.

The GW hardbounds have weak binding and fall apart.

The otherwise nice AH softbound published in 1993 also suffers from weak binding as well.

 

[AndreJarosch]

1 hour ago, Rick Meints said:

The RQ3 Deluxe perfect bound rulebook (8570) was published by Avalon Hill in 1993. Lords of Terror (8595) was published by Avalon Hill in 1995.

According to my notes 8570 was published in 1994 (month unknown to me) and 8595 in December 1994. 
But i am sure your notes are more accurate thahn mine, so i stand corrected. 

[d(sqrt(-1))]

I used to amuse myself in the early 90s going into Games Workshop stores and asking if they had any copies of Runequest...

[Nick Brooke]

2 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

According to my notes 8570 was published in 1994 (month unknown to me) and 8595 in December 1994. 
But i am sure your notes are more accurate thahn mine, so i stand corrected. 

For what it's worth, we were discussing "Lords of Terror" as a new release on the Glorantha Digest mailing list back in January 1995.

[Rick Meints]

2 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

For what it's worth, we were discussing "Lords of Terror" as a new release on the Glorantha Digest mailing list back in January 1995.

That's my general memory of LoT. I remember it having debuted a few months before RQ Con San Fransisco (con was Jan. 1995). In a similar vein, I could have sworn that the RQ Deluxe perfectbound rulebook was being sold in January of 1994 at RQ Con 1 in Baltimore.

As a side note: I have just discovered that the ISBN on the back of the RQ3 Deluxe perfect bound rulebook has a typo in the ISBN. Each publisher had their own prefix. In the 90s Avalon Hill was publishing RQ3 books with the 1-56038 prefix, which as then followed by a 4 digit number for each title. Oddly, that rulebook has an extra 6 in its code, as it uses 1-566038. That's impossible, because it is one two many digits for a very specific and rigid standard. The incorrect ISBN is only found on the back of the book, and if you omit that digit and do a search for 1-56038-082-9 you will find Strangers in Prax. On the spine of the rulebook, it uses 1-56038-082-9, so somebody at AH screwed up. Alas, it's not easy to know what they filled in on the paperwork back then, as most ISBNs were registered via paper forms, not online like today.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Rick Meints

[Ian Absentia]

4 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

The books all suffer from poor binding, and it is common that pages become loose very quickly.

More or less a standard for GW books of the era, including other lines.  Our local shop owner was very indulgent with exchanges for books with defective binding, and taking it up with his distributor.

!i!

[Atgxtg]

16 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

When I was in high school, way back in the 1980's, I purchased the Avalon Hill boxed set (Deluxe) of RuneQuest but never got to play it.

As I don't care for Glorantha as a setting, I prefer using my own, I am considering diving back in.

You're not alone. The RuneQuest game mechanics are the basic for almost all of Chaosium's RPGs, and's it's various relatives. So the game system has held up at least  as well without Glorantha as Glroantha has without the RuneQuest game mechanics. So it certainly is usalbe in another setting. 

16 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

What are the differences between them all? I don't know, can anyone tell me?

It mostly came down to cutting out stuff. Apparently the full, Avalon Hill Deluxe boxed set was considered to0 expensive or perhaps just too much for the UK  or something, and Games Workshop released a trimmed down version of RQ. As other's have mentioned the perfect bound edition from AH is nice if you can find it.  

 

IMO RQ3 is probably the best overall version to use as a base system for a fantasy setting, but the Basic Role-Playing gold book is a useful tookit for adding bits from other Chasoium games that aren't in RQ, but might fit a given setting. 

 

[Atgxtg]

4 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

More or less a standard for GW books of the era, including other lines.  Our local shop owner was very indulgent with exchanges for books with defective binding, and taking it up with his distributor.

!i!

Oh does that bring back memories of GW's edtion of Stormbringer. Looked gorgeous until you opened it up and the pages fell out.

[Rick Meints]

21 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

It mostly came down to cutting out stuff. Apparently the full, Avalon Hill Deluxe boxed set was considered to0 expensive or perhaps just too much for the UK  or something, and Games Workshop released a trimmed down version of RQ. As other's have mentioned the perfect bound edition from AH is nice if you can find it.  

In the UK, there is no Value Added Tax (VAT) on books, but there is on boxed games. In the 80s VAT was 15%. Importing the boxed set from the USA (where it was printed) was just too expensive, so Games Workshop opted to produce the game line as hardcover books. If you bought the three core RQ3 books done by GW (Standard, Advanced, and Monsters) you actually got more content than the RQ3 deluxe rulebook, not a trimmed down version.

[Kloster]

30 minutes ago, Rick Meints said:

In the UK, there is no Value Added Tax (VAT) on books, but there is on boxed games. In the 80s VAT was 15%. Importing the boxed set from the USA (where it was printed) was just too expensive, so Games Workshop opted to produce the game line as hardcover books. If you bought the three core RQ3 books done by GW (Standard, Advanced, and Monsters) you actually got more content than the RQ3 deluxe rulebook, not a trimmed down version.

In France, the VAT was (at that period) 4% for books, but 33% for boxes, but even without taxes, AH deluxe box was 600FF (that meant it could reach 800FF as retail price in a shop. Don't laugh, I saw it in the shop I was working at that time) Those 800FF correspond (with that period currency exchange rate) to 150 US$. No wonder GW's book and Oriflam box, then book, were more successful: IIRC, Oriflam's book was around 250FF.

[d(sqrt(-1))]

The two separate boxed sets of the initial AH RQ in the UK were about £40 each in 1984 (and that's £40 then, not £40 now). Luckily those were the days when students still got grants, and beer was about 50p/pint. I believe a similar thing happened with the Empire of the Petal Throne box Gardasiyal - it was also expensive and paper cover rulebooks (not a bad set of rules but hardly any Tekumel info in it)

Edited November 4, 2021 by d(sqrt(-1))

[ffilz]

15 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

 RQ1 only exists as a facsimile reprint, and I’ve only ever heard of one person still playing it (but he talks about it a lot).

Who me? 🙂

[DreadDomain]

14 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

Compiled book from AH!?!?! On my radar! Thanks 🙂

As for Glorantha, yeah, not a fan, so the new RQ might drive me insane. 🙂 

The AH softcover from 1993 is in fact my favorite version

https://www.nobleknight.com/P/8844/RuneQuest-Deluxe-Edition

It doesn't measure up to today's standards of quality we see from Chaosium but my book still sits solidly on my bookshelves.

Edited November 5, 2021 by DreadDomain

[SDLeary]

16 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

The AH softcover from 1993 is in fact my favorite version

https://www.nobleknight.com/P/8844/RuneQuest-Deluxe-Edition

An absolute bargain compared to what I found on Abe's Books. Everyone look, you'll get a real laugh!

SDLeary