Sun Wheel Ruin

[jajagappa]

13 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I don't think that's right. This Sun Dome Temple was lost to an alliance of trolls and Orlanthi, possibly in 1302 by a map in the Sourcebook.

Guide: "Billiz: ... There is an extinguished Sun Dome Temple in these hills, a casualty of an alliance between the Halikiv trolls and Orlanthi rebels."

Yes, that's the answer then! 

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

i just understood imho few weeks ago

and I had absolutely no idea what iirc meant too (and some other ur-runes some of you use 😝)

The joy (or pain) of acronyms!  (When I worked for IBM they had a whole internal wiki site for acronyms; the government is equally bad.)

[Akhôrahil]

26 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

The joy (or pain) of acronyms!  (When I worked for IBM they had a whole internal wiki site for acronyms; the government is equally bad.)

I did translation work for IBM; I definitely reacted to the phrase "some FRP:s are CRP:s" (Field Replaceable Parts; Customer Replaceable Parts). They not only used a lot of acronyms - some were even IBM-unique. I remember translating something and suddenly realizing "oh, they mean RAID, they just don't call it that".

The military is just the worst, though. Just consider CINCLANTFLT.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[soltakss]

4 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Don’t joke too much

i just understood imho few weeks ago

and I had absolutely no idea what iirc meant too (and some other ur-runes some of you use 😝)

I have to check most of them, or I just skip them and ignore the abbreviations.

As I am old, I tend to avoid them myself, wherever possible.

 

[Agentorange]

3 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I did translation work for IBM; I definitely reacted to the phrase "some FRP:s are CRP:s" (Field Replaceable Parts; Customer Replaceable Parts). They not only used a lot of acronyms - some were even IBM-unique. I remember translating something and suddenly realizing "oh, they mean RAID, they just don't call it that".

The military is just the worst, though. Just consider CINCLANTFLT.

IA ! IA !   CINCLANTFLT. FHTAGN.......😆

[Qizilbashwoman]

3 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

The military is just the worst, though. Just consider CINCLANTFLT.

COMUSFLTFORCOM is worser

[Ormi Phengaria]

After spending the last two weeks in emergency medical responder Chalana Arroy training, I'm pretty sure my entire brain is functioning by acronym now.

[g33k]

On 7/7/2022 at 5:00 PM, jajagappa said:

... Basically figure it was some sort of ziggurat-like temple.  Maybe had ramps instead of stairs winding up around it to accommodate the Dancers ...

I'm pretty sure -- if my game ever gets over to that place, or any other ruins relevant to the Gold Wheel Dancers -- that I am going to rule that such monuments were conical rather than angular/pyramidal.  Spiral ramp up, rather than staircase.  Everything arcs & circles.

Edited July 25, 2022 by g33k

[Erol of Backford]

The Unity Council Clockwise from lower left: Speaking Wheel the Gold Wheel Dancer, Ezkankekko the Only Old One, Martaler the Blazing Forge, Fwalfla Oakheart, King Heort the Great, and The Inhuman King. From the Yarnomis Carvings of the Royal Palace (BOLDHOME).

[Shiningbrow]

On 7/9/2022 at 9:56 PM, Akhôrahil said:

The military is just the worst, though. Just consider CINCLANTFLT

That doesn't even make sense! the first L is pointless...

 

(edit - ok, not 'pointless', but it could have been done better - CiCALF

Edited July 16, 2022 by Shiningbrow

[Erol of Backford]

Could any of the other Gold Wheel dancers come back to life (if that was understood) if strange things happen on a Hero Quest? It would be great if Speaking Wheel's stats could be posted as an idea?

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Could any of the other Gold Wheel dancers come back to life (if that was understood) if strange things happen on a Hero Quest? It would be great if Speaking Wheel's stats could be posted as an idea?

Yes, given the revival of Pinchining on the Giant's Cradle.

Edited July 16, 2022 by M Helsdon

[Erol of Backford]

I think Jaja or someone actually played Speaking Wheel in a campaign? Was hoping to see the stats? There is a good chance that any questing into the subterranean areas at the Sun Wheel Ruins (MGWV) would turn up frescos or carvings showing parts of the pasts, maybe a knowledge temple quest as well as a search for Sun Wheel artifacts? If a Hero Quest is conducted who knows what might happen? Was it the 01 roll that actually brought Pinchining "back to life", if that is the correct phrase? 

[Erol of Backford]

Understood one of the 3 might be the future King of Sartar but who are the other 2 characters in the prince of Sartar comic? I assume the golden disk at the top Pinchining?

[French Desperate WindChild]

13 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Understood one of the 3 might be the future King of Sartar but who are the other 2 characters in the prince of Sartar comic? I assume the golden disk at the top Pinchining?

none of them are Argrath, they are "just" characters

and yep you see the wheel note the baby is a giant the wheel seels to be human size but I m not sure

[jajagappa]

20 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I think Jaja or someone actually played Speaking Wheel in a campaign? Was hoping to see the stats? There is a good chance that any questing into the subterranean areas at the Sun Wheel Ruins (MGWV) would turn up frescos or carvings showing parts of the pasts, maybe a knowledge temple quest as well as a search for Sun Wheel artifacts? If a Hero Quest is conducted who knows what might happen? Was it the 01 roll that actually brought Pinchining "back to life", if that is the correct phrase? 

It was in the Broken Council LARP from RQ Con2, so not a campaign and no stats.  Also note that there were no stats for Pinchining in the Cradle scenario.

You can still find my notes on the Gold Wheel Dancers here: gold wheel dancers - 1995-01-17 (Glorantha Digest Vol 01) (steff.in)

You can also find my Song of the Sixth Day which tells of the "end" of Speaking Wheel here: Song of the Sixth Day - 1995-02-09 (Glorantha Digest Vol 01) (steff.in) 

Spoiler

If not obvious from the story, Speaking Wheel was placed/added into the God Project as the voice of Nysalor, i.e. literally became part of the god.  When Greg and I were subsequently chatting about the game, he thought that was a great ending.

I personally liked this outcome as it meant that Speaking Wheel did survive and live on - and likely still exists in the God Plane, but as PART OF Nysalor.  (Optionally, Speaking Wheel might be one of the parts of Nysalor that Arkat scattered through the world, but if so then completely intertwined with that of the god.  E.g. he may have become his Golden Tongue.)

The Gold Wheel Dancers are not inherently "recorders" of events.  But that does not preclude one of them from having been a Golden Quill that might have left writing in Firespeech or some sort of golden etchings (I think fine golden lines etched into the stone works better than frescoes here).

A quest or heroquest is not likely to find "artifacts" per se as the Gold Wheel Dancers could transform into any needed "artifact".  They did not have to 'make' anything.  But they could 'become' what was needed.  One suggested outcome for many of the Gold Wheel Dancers is that they became the useful Wheel coins.  Another is that dwarfs captured them and 'froze' them in a specific form. 

As for the 01 roll - Urrgh the Ugly prayed to his 'god', a golden wheel coin in the Underworld.  The player rolled a 01 (critical) - in RQG terms it would be a Devotion roll, in RQ2 terms it was probably a POW x5% roll.  

[jajagappa]

21 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

the wheel seels to be human size

Yes, Pinchining was more-or-less a human sized spinning disk.

23 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Could any of the other Gold Wheel dancers come back to life (if that was understood) if strange things happen on a Hero Quest? It would be great if Speaking Wheel's stats could be posted as an idea?

Yes, it's feasible to bring a Gold Wheel Dancer back on a quest.

My suggested approach:

1) You must find their final body/form.  (Urggh carried a special golden wheel coin.)  Perhaps it's a golden hammer held by the dwarfs (maybe in Greatway or Gemborg or Dwarf Mine), or a Golden Key, or a Golden Locket, etc.

2) You must carry their body along on a heroquest.  It might be to the Underworld, but could be some place in the Lesser or Greater Darkness.

3) You must reach the place where their spirit resides and reunite it with their body; OR you must reawaken their sleeping spirit (the spirit may still be somehow trapped within the object).  

4) And you must return successfully on the quest with them.

It's basically a Sleeping Beauty tale, so embellish accordingly.  An evil villain (dwarf, sorceress, magician, Vadeli, etc.) has the object and treasures it and has wardings, charms, guardians to protect it.  And they will pursue any who awaken it and attempt to steal it away.  (I use 'it' here as I fully believe that Gold Wheel Dancers can transform into whatever sexual form they prefer, just like fire is also ambiguous.)

[Erol of Backford]

So one of the Gold Wheel Dancers decides to be a sword... Is anyone able to weave a tale as to how this particular Wheel Dancer becomes one of the Humakt Golden Swords?

I am looking for ideas how this could have happened (not it cannot or it wouldn't) but how and then to Jaja's point what if it were taken on a Heroquest and the spirit is reunited with the sword or awaken it like Sleeping Beauty. Would any spirit binding enchantment be broken if one had been scribed on the Dancer or would it remain and be like an "inscribed" tattoo on the Dancer?

What would this Dancers name be? I actually thought of this while typing the comment. A dancing sword, they could become what they wanted, something useful but did it act on its own as if being wielded like a sword or spun like a spinning wheel but functioned on its own accord without a wielder?

Did the Spinning Wheel Dancer spin gold on its own or did someone need to spin it?

[jajagappa]

On 7/20/2022 at 12:19 AM, Erol of Backford said:

So one of the Gold Wheel Dancers decides to be a sword... Is anyone able to weave a tale as to how this particular Wheel Dancer becomes one of the Humakt Golden Swords?

I am looking for ideas how this could have happened (not it cannot or it wouldn't) but how and then to Jaja's point what if it were taken on a Heroquest and the spirit is reunited with the sword or awaken it like Sleeping Beauty. Would any spirit binding enchantment be broken if one had been scribed on the Dancer or would it remain and be like an "inscribed" tattoo on the Dancer?

What would this Dancers name be?

In my mind, you should always think Utility and Harmony with the Gold Wheel Dancers: what useful function can they fulfill that aids others?

Why would one become a golden sword? They are not Death associated, so best to go back to an earlier understanding of Kargan Tor - he is the god of separation.  A blade is useful to cut or sever things - e.g. cut a thread, divide a cloak into two, etc.  

The Gold Wheel Dancer is visiting Ernalda or one of her handmaids and they find they've lost the blade to cut the threads off the spindle or similar.  The Gold Wheel Dancer becomes a golden sword (the sword being the primary emblem of separation) and aids their task.  (Alternately, Ty Kora Tek needs a blade to cut someone's thread of life...)

Ernalda (or Ty Kora Tek) hands the blade to another for a similar task, etc.  The Gold Wheel Dancer accepts this use, continues in this form, and is commonly known as Cutting Wheel.  But after Death is stolen, someone sees the golden sword not as a tool for cutting threads, but as a tool for Death.  And in using it as such, the Gold Wheel Dancer withdraws their spirit/goes to sleep in horror at the deed.  After that, the golden sword is just a tool...

[Erol of Backford]

So now the PC's would need to undergo a quest to awaken and free Cutting Wheel if they choose to do so. This has so many beautifully crazy possible paths that may or may not involve the Smoking Ruin/Korolstead Earth Temple or the Sun Wheel Ruin. Thank you Jaja.

[jajagappa]

13 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

So now the PC's would need to undergo a quest to awaken and free Cutting Wheel if they choose to do so. This has so many beautifully crazy possible paths

Yes, there's a lot of direction you could take that.

First, though, they have to have some sense or inclination that a gold sword might be something other than just a gold sword.  An etching in the Sun Wheel Ruin, an ancient text secretly held at a Sun Dome Temple, some obscure reference to the Broken Council in an LM temple, a dream vision, a shaman encountering the spirit in the Spirit World/Underworld...

[Erol of Backford]

So the Gold Wheel Dancers are able to transform themselves into something that will help or assist those with them and the Gold Wheel Dancer is pleased or possibly not and its like the children's book "The Giving Tree" in a small parallel, where over time they have been used for tasks that are not associated with harmony and any quest would be to free/awaken them from that less desired form.

Wouldn't being shaped into a coin have possible negative emotions attached to it as well, greed, theft, etc. and a dancer would want to be freed from that form?

What would their abilities be as a dancer and not a set form. Form-set Gold seem obvious which makes me think they are sorcerers themselves? Would any spells the dancer knows be like a matrix on the set item? Is there any way the dancer would be able to communicate with someone holding it even if only faintly at the beginning and this communication ability could be trained or learned over time? Could this become like an allied spirit maybe? What language would a dancer speak or is it just telepathic and there is no written form?

What if anything would they worship? The Sun Dragon possibly or would it be their enemy? 

I like the idea that they have sorcery abilities and am able to develop that but what would their physical characteristics be when they are not a set form? What are their stats when they are a human sized spinning disk made of "golden essence" high power, high intelligence, super human dexterity? I imagine their size could be adjusted within certain parameters, maybe they become more dense the smaller the set form would be?

A blacksmiths hammer which has been in a family for uncountable generations... 

I suppose it doesn't matter as dancers are free sprits which take a physical form to solve a pending problem/fill a need... great stuff Jaja, thanks yet again!

[Erol of Backford]

One other thing, is the birth to come the baby giant, the child of Gonn Orta or was it something else? The Dawn perhaps? (I am still very interested in Gold Wheel Dancer stats for some reason even though they need not be defined?)

'When the light of Aether touched and giantess of the moon, Speaking Wheel walked the great basin and met those of light and dark, of growth and stone. He spoke of ancient battles to the giant, Gonn Orta, and told him of the birth to come. Then did Gonn Orta come south to Kero Fin, for I still lay within the womb of birth and saw not the world beyond.'   

[Erol of Backford]

Possibly I missed it, is the coming birth that of Nysalor? I hope not...

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

What would their abilities be as a dancer and not a set form. Form-set Gold seem obvious which makes me think they are sorcerers themselves? Would any spells the dancer knows be like a matrix on the set item? Is there any way the dancer would be able to communicate with someone holding it even if only faintly at the beginning and this communication ability could be trained or learned over time? Could this become like an allied spirit maybe? What language would a dancer speak or is it just telepathic and there is no written form?

What if anything would they worship? The Sun Dragon possibly or would it be their enemy? 

I like the idea that they have sorcery abilities and am able to develop that but what would their physical characteristics be when they are not a set form?

I really do not see the Gold Wheel Dancers as sorcerers.  That's not what they are about.  They can Transform.  It's an innate magical ability (just like a nymph/dryad can discorporate).  

Gold Wheel Dancers spoke Firespeech - they are beings of Fire.  If they worship anything specifically it would be Aether and certain members of the Celestial Court (particularly Larnste and Harana Ilor).  

I would not include a way to communicate with them until they are awakened - they've been gone for 1000+ years.  If it was easy to communicate, even faintly, it would have been done beforehand.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

One other thing, is the birth to come the baby giant, the child of Gonn Orta or was it something else?

I think in that instance, I likely convinced Gonn Orta to join the council by speaking of the future of the giants (but it's been a long time and I don't remember those specific details).

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

The Dawn perhaps?... Possibly I missed it, is the coming birth that of Nysalor? I hope not...

Why hope not?  The birth that Speaking Wheel is part of is that of Nysalor the Golden One.  Speaking Wheel became the fiery Golden Trumpet that was the voice and song of the god. 

Do not let the prejudices of trolls and barbarians obscure your view of the glorious peace and beneficence that Nysalor brought to the world. 🙂