Kallyr’s light bringer quest

[Stephen L]

I’ve heard rumours that this is going to be the subject of an upcoming publication.

*but* given

• A lot of the adventurers in my campaign have passions with loyalty to Kallyr
• I’ve just got to dark season 1625 my campaign

So, I’m not sure I can last.  I don’t want Kallyr to disappear, with minimal involvement for the PCs

My plan was to run her quest involving the players, making something up.

I’ve just picked up the Heortling Mythology from the Stafford Library, and was going to start with the Lightbringer’s quest there.  Any other sources or ideas people have?

My other option is, if this is going to be published soon, to actually put it off for a year in my campaign.  I’d prefer that Kally’s reign is brief, so that Argrath is stepping into a mess.  But I suspect I’d have it that Kallyr fails to unite the tribes for a year, and that her lightbringer’s quest is an act of desperation that Sartar’s flame is unlit and the tribes are degenerating into open warfare, torn apart by quisling hunts, etc.

Thanks for any ideas / pointers.

[Runeblogger]

I'm also interested in running a LBQ, so I'd be happy to see this thread generate ideas about how to do it.

[claycle]

Kallyr's failed Lightbringer Quest is during Sacred Time 1625, iircanon and IMG. If you are following the current publications (GM Adventures [late 1625]=> Smoking Ruin [early 1626]), your game will have skipped past her quest, but be ready for the Battle of the Queens (where Kallyr is doomed to die). I would hope that any forthcoming publications would extend this timeline rather than loop back upon itself and force us to somehow shoehorn a 1625 event into 1626 post-Smoking Ruin saga, or start a new saga.

Edited June 8, 2020 by claycle

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Stephen L said:

I’ve just picked up the Heortling Mythology from the Stafford Library, and was going to start with the Lightbringer’s quest there.  Any other sources or ideas people have?

I don't know if you have King of Sartar already or not, but that is another important source.  P.69-75 describes the stages of the Lightbringer's quest.  p.143-146 describe the Short Lightbringer's Quest, which is what Kallyr actually undertook.  p.200 has Kallyr's Companions, who were ostensibly the people/positions involved either on the quest or generally assisting Kallyr (note that several are gone or died in the Dragonrise).

I also strongly recommend the HQ2 book Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes.  Although the Underworld quest is after a different goal, the whole Descent into the Underworld including different encounters and situations there is very useful for the trek through Hell up to the court of judgment.  Also includes useful handouts for learning about the Underworld - these might be harder to get with Minaryth's death at the Dragonrise.

 

 

[Stephen L]

25 minutes ago, claycle said:

I would hope that any forthcoming publications would extend this timeline rather than loop back upon itself and force us to somehow shoehorn a 1625

Indeed, hence my dilemma.  I can see the adventurers passions (Kallyr, Colymar and anti Lunar) as having very interesting interplay, the friction between Kallyr and Leika causing them real roleplaying issues.  Indeed they already are. In the celebrations following the Tarshite defeat (well more retreat) at Dangerford, co-incident with the appointment of a new Thane of Apple Lane, said Thane recklessly gave a speech about uniting behind Kallyr against the Lunars, and there was real angst amongst the other players about whether that is best for the Colymar.  

So, that's why I'd like the adventurers to play her failed Lightbringer's quest now.

39 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

I don't know if you have King of Sartar

Indeed I do, one of the very first.  Avidly read, and now falling to pieces, but I must admit I've not returned to it since stopping roleplaying, well, more or less at the time it came out.  I shall reacquaint myself with it, many thanks!

 

[jajagappa]

4 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

I shall reacquaint myself with it, many thanks!

You may want to consider picking up the revised version in pdf.  Won't impact the LBQ stuff at all, but it adds a whole "missing" chapter from the Composite History of Dragon Pass.  Plus the maps and timelines are updated.

 

[EricW]

You don't have to be rigid about the timeline IMO. If your PCs save Kallyr, why not make Kallyr the leader, with Argrath her military commander, and commander of her magical cohorts? Argrath wanted to bring down the moon, he would have accepted Kallyr's leadership providing she listened to him when it counted. Many of the pivotal events would remain essentially the same. The biggest difference might be when Argrath retired to Broyan's Hall to escape the impossible might of the Lunar army, with the intention of performing a LBQ, Kallyr might have refused to follow him. She had seen the consequences of a failed LBQ. If she didn't follow Argrath to Broyan's Hall, she likely would have died in a hopeless struggle against the lunar cataclysm, or worse, been captured by the Lunars and horribly mistreated.

Edited June 9, 2020 by EricW

[dumuzid]

In the campaign I play in Kallyr died as normal, but Leika went on to complete the quests to make her Prince of Sartar the next year.  Argrath showed up to Boldhome and, since he couldn't relight the Sartar brazier himself, set to wooing the new prince.  I'm not sure whether they plan to marry before or after the Alda-Chur campaign.

[soltakss]

10 hours ago, Runeblogger said:

I'm also interested in running a LBQ, so I'd be happy to see this thread generate ideas about how to do it.

I ran the full LBQ using HeroQuest as a campaign. It was really fun.

Hopefully, I'll write it up for the Jonstown Compendium, but it might be next year, as it traditional.

[Stephen L]

On 6/8/2020 at 11:31 PM, jajagappa said:

p.200 has Kallyr's Companions

Many thanks Jajagappa.

Of Kallyr's companions, I know that Minaryth Purple is eaten in the Dragonrise, and Orlaront Dragonfriend is exiled (anyone know why).

Does anyone know what happened to any of the others?

On 6/9/2020 at 6:11 AM, soltakss said:

I'll write it up for the Jonstown Compendium

Yes please.  I've no problem converting HQ to RQ...

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, Stephen L said:

Orlaront Dragonfriend is exiled (anyone know why).

Well, he kind of raised a dragon.... And perhaps Kallyr doesn't really want to be associated with dragon powers.

6 hours ago, Stephen L said:

Does anyone know what happened to any of the others?

Most should still be with her, unless any have fallen in the liberation of Sartar.

[Charles]

8 hours ago, Stephen L said:

I know that Minaryth Purple is eaten in the Dragonrise

Minaryth Purple is killed but not eaten (only the heel of one boot is eaten if I recall).

[Charles]

Kallyr is very sad towards the end of her life and has little reason to keep going. Her son is dead, killed during his godquest. A lot of her friends and companions were killed during the failed LBQ. And there is huge resistance to her as a woman in what many reactionary Orlanthi of the hill tribes think is a man's role.

At some con, I remember Greg telling us that he'd like to set it up so the decision of whether to resurrect Kallyr be left in the hands of the player characters, who would have a lot of knowledge of why she would not want it. Her remaining closest friends would not want to make that decision.

[Leingod]

3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Well, he kind of raised a dragon.... And perhaps Kallyr doesn't really want to be associated with dragon powers.

I always saw it as something she was pressured into doing because the Sartarites did not like the idea of leaving the guy who could potentially bring on another Dragonkill (in their minds) around, friend or not. Most likely, Kallyr had to exile him because the alternative was going to be attempts to assassinate him.

[Oracle]

4 hours ago, Charles said:

Minaryth Purple is killed but not eaten (only the heel of one boot is eaten if I recall).

Just never understood, why Minaryth Purple has not been resurrected afterwards - or was he, and I have missed something here?

[jajagappa]

9 minutes ago, Oracle said:

why Minaryth Purple has not been resurrected afterwards - or was he, and I have missed something here?

Any number of possible reasons, but you are correct that he is dead and was not resurrected.  Could have been oathbound, and the oath kept him from returning.  Could have been that is soul was captured.  Could be that his soul was severed by Yanafal Tarnils (or his stand-in) and no one could undo what Death had done to him.  Could be that his soul was eaten by the dragon.  Could be that they had been in the Underworld and crossed the River Styx already when he died so no means to bring him back.

[Eff]

3 hours ago, Leingod said:

I always saw it as something she was pressured into doing because the Sartarites did not like the idea of leaving the guy who could potentially bring on another Dragonkill (in their minds) around, friend or not. Most likely, Kallyr had to exile him because the alternative was going to be attempts to assassinate him.

I mean, another factor is that the Dragonrise killed off most of the collaborationist leadership... who were still Orlanthi with kin, and not outlaws. And without any way to argue that they could have surrendered themselves for ransom. Even if Kallyr hadn't awakened a dragon to do it, there would still be a need to displace the need for justice, or retribution in lieu of justice, onto someone to prevent a blood feud. 

Granted, if Kallyr had a firm position as Prince, this would have been less of an issue, but under the circumstances, exiling Orlaront is a way to avoid vendettas. (And of course, this manner of doing so weakens Kallyr's political position substantially, since anyone who supports her too much is going to be seen as endorsing the deaths of all those kin...)

[Akhôrahil]

What was the objective of Kallyr's LBQ? Who was she trying to bring back?

[EricW]

22 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

What was the objective of Kallyr's LBQ? Who was she trying to bring back?

Orlanth - the Lunars interfered with Orlanth’s quest, kept him trapped in the underworld.

A successful LBQ would have likely also granted greater resistance to Lunar magic. A successful LBQ contradicts the existence of the goddess - if Wakboth is defeated, and the compromise upheld, this weakens the presence of a chaos god who defies the compromise.

This could have interesting in world manifestations, for example Kallyr might become invisible to Lunar divination.

[Jeff]

9 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

What was the objective of Kallyr's LBQ? Who was she trying to bring back?

The Good Order. The restored cosmos.

The LBQ is NOT about recovering a specific person. Harmast did not begin his LBQ thinking "let's bring back some Brithini warlord" - it is about bringing forth a new Dawn, a new Age, where the cosmos has been restored. One makes peace with an adversary to together Chaos and the Great Darkness is defeated (in the mundane world).

Kallyr has the Kingdom of Sartar perform the Short LBQ in order to "restore" cosmic order, or at least she hopes. Everyone and everything gets a proper sanctified place and the proper cosmic order is established and reinforced.

[Akhôrahil]

12 minutes ago, Jeff said:

The Good Order. The restored cosmos.

The LBQ is NOT about recovering a specific person.

But she would have ended up bringing someone back (even if she didn't have someone in mind)? That's what the LBQ always does in practice?

12 minutes ago, Jeff said:

One makes peace with an adversary to together Chaos and the Great Darkness is defeated (in the mundane world).

Peace with whom, then? The Lunars? That'd be super interesting.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Austin]

15 hours ago, Charles said:

Her son is dead, killed during his godquest.

Are you (or is anyone else) able to elaborate on this a little? I've never heard about Kallyr having a child before.

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, Akhôrahil said:

But she would have ended up bringing someone back (even if she didn't have someone in mind)? That's what the LBQ always does in practice?

The original LBQ brought back Yelm. That's the template. Not a specific individual, but the needed part of the cosmic order. That's why it is called the Lightbringers Quest after all.

After the original LBQ, it was tried by Harmast. And the needed part of the cosmos was - a Darkness entity.

Harmast tried it again. And the needed part of the cosmos was - a Flame-wielding son of said Darkness entity. Now by then Harmast might have cheated a bit. He'd already done the LBQ once (and not the Short version Kallyr tried, but an epic version that ended up being effectively two Westfarings and one heck of trip into the Underworld), and he learned a lot from Arkat. Maybe Harmast was able to identify a specific individual! 

After that, the Short LBQ had been done a number of times in history, but the full Lightbringers Quest last succeeded in the Second Age.  And in Ralios. 

Kallyr is trying the "Short"LBQ - a massive ritual during Sacred Time with thousands of participants, but more predictable but less powerful than the full thing.

[Jeff]

15 hours ago, Charles said:

Kallyr is very sad towards the end of her life and has little reason to keep going. Her son is dead, killed during his godquest. A lot of her friends and companions were killed during the failed LBQ. And there is huge resistance to her as a woman in what many reactionary Orlanthi of the hill tribes think is a man's role.

At some con, I remember Greg telling us that he'd like to set it up so the decision of whether to resurrect Kallyr be left in the hands of the player characters, who would have a lot of knowledge of why she would not want it. Her remaining closest friends would not want to make that decision.

Greg and I worked quite a bit on this, and needless to say, details have changed a lot from his musings in the 2000s.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Thanks for the elaboration, Jeff. I've been a bit disappointed that the LBQ seems to be treated as just some random ressurection spell, but your contextualization makes things more meaningful.