What is preventing Ralzakark from Creating a New Empire of Light?

[EricW]

Ralzakark ruler of Dorastor is or was a mask of Gbaji, he is someone who studied under Nysalor and learned much of his magic, and is also one of Glorantha's most accomplished heroquesters.

What prevents Ralzakark from reconstructing Nysalor/Gbaji in full? Why is his Dorastor still just a shadow of the First Age? With Arkat broken and not seen since the Second Age, and with Arkat's victory further weakened by Sedenya tampering somehow with the Gbaji myth, what prevents Ralzakark from completing the job and creating a new City of Miracles, restoring Dorastor to its former "glory"?

[Qizilbashwoman]

16 minutes ago, EricW said:

Ralzakark ruler of Dorastor is or was a mask of Gbaji, he is someone who studied under Nysalor and learned much of his magic, and is also one of Glorantha's most accomplished heroquesters.

What prevents Ralzakark from reconstructing Nysalor/Gbaji in full? Why is his Dorastor still just a shadow of the First Age? With Arkat broken and not seen since the Second Age, and with Arkat's victory further weakened by Sedenya tampering somehow with the Gbaji myth, what prevents Ralzakark from completing the job and creating a new City of Miracles, restoring Dorastor to its former "glory"?

So like, he becomes the new Red Emperor, but the mask of Arkat, Argrath, then enjoys the bonus rolls to murder him

The danger of getting yourself into a mythic paradigm too hard is that then Nysalor is once again defeated by Arkat. In fact, it's possible that the previous challengers to the Emperor who died, such as Kallyr Starbrow, were symbolically Arkat's earlier deaths because our New Nysalor was rising in power. It was foretold retroactively.

[Akhôrahil]

23 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

So like, he becomes the new Red Emperor, but the mask of Arkat, Argrath, then enjoys the bonus rolls to murder him

 

[Nevermet]

This is one interpretation of the future Monster Empire is, yes?

[Akhôrahil]

Just now, Nevermet said:

This is one interpretation of the future Monster Empire is, yes?

Yes, one that is hard to avoid. See the Guide.

[metcalph]

3 hours ago, EricW said:

he is someone who studied under Nysalor and learned much of his magic.

This is debatable.  Ralzakark was brought back by God Learners who did not believe the tales of his evil.  If it was tales of the Bright Empire's enemies about the evil Ralzarkar then they look incredibly stupid.  But it the tales of his evil came from the Bright Empire itself, then their reasoning looks  somewhat more rational (without any hindsight).  This suggests that he was a prisoner of the Bright Empire rather than a disciple of Nysalor.  

3 hours ago, EricW said:

What prevents Ralzakark from reconstructing Nysalor/Gbaji in full? Why is his Dorastor still just a shadow of the First Age? With Arkat broken and not seen since the Second Age, and with Arkat's victory further weakened by Sedenya tampering somehow with the Gbaji myth, what prevents Ralzakark from completing the job and creating a new City of Miracles, restoring Dorastor to its former "glory"?

From the Guide:

Quote

Fort Wrath: This maze of tunnels beneath
the Demon Plateau is home to Ralzakark,
King of Dorastor. It is inhabited by a tribe
of broos and Chaos demons who serve
Ralzakark. When Arkat sliced off the top of
a mountain, a demon trapped within gained
limited access to the surface.

Guide p344

My theory is that Ralzakark is the unnamed demon within the Plateau and he is still imited in his access.  

[Sir_Godspeed]

3 minutes ago, metcalph said:

My theory is that Ralzakark is the unnamed demon within the Plateau and he is still imited in his access.  

Ooh, interesting. Doing a little Old Gods-y charade where his half-asleep essence is trapped in the mountain, but his consciousness walks around in multiple bodies. I like it.

[soltakss]

8 hours ago, EricW said:

Ralzakark ruler of Dorastor is or was a mask of Gbaji, he is someone who studied under Nysalor and learned much of his magic, and is also one of Glorantha's most accomplished heroquesters.

In my Glorantha, Ralzakark is a Mask of Nysalor and Gbjaji, but he concentrates on the Nysalor Aspect.

8 hours ago, EricW said:

What prevents Ralzakark from reconstructing Nysalor/Gbaji in full?

He is effectively trapped in Dorastor, bound to it by Arkat's Curse. Sure, he can leave for a short time, but needs to return.

in Dorastor, he has reestablished the Bright Empire, it just looks a bit different to what people imagine it was. He knows what it was really like, after all, he was there.

8 hours ago, EricW said:

Why is his Dorastor still just a shadow of the First Age?

Several reasons:

Arkat's Curse is still in existence, trapping all the Chaos in Dorastor

The Rulers of Dorastor constantly fight each other, so Ralzakark doesn't have the united forces of Dorastor behind him

The Mad Sultan believes that he should be the Red Emperor, not Ralzakark, so he opposes Ralzakark's ambitions in the Empire

8 hours ago, EricW said:

With Arkat broken and not seen since the Second Age, and with Arkat's victory further weakened by Sedenya tampering somehow with the Gbaji myth, what prevents Ralzakark from completing the job and creating a new City of Miracles, restoring Dorastor to its former "glory"?

His Curse is still in place and blights Dorastor. By keeping the Chaos of Dorastor contained, the Curse strengthens the Chaos of Dorastor but does not allow it to spread beyond its borders.

For Ralzakark to become the Monster Emperor, some things need to happen:

1. The Red Emperor must be permanently slain
2. Sheng Seleris must be removed
3. Arkat's Curse must be lifted

(1) is done by Sheng Seleris. As both the Red Emperor and Ralzakark are Avatars of Nysalor, the death of the Red Emperor allows Ralzakark to take up the mantle of Nysalor and take his place. (2) is helpfully done by Argrath. (3) is unknown, but my guess is that HeroQuestors can release Ralzakark, perhaps when searching for a way to bring the Red Emperor back.

Ralzakark's daughter, Send Valu, probably has a part to play as well.

7 hours ago, Nevermet said:

This is one interpretation of the future Monster Empire is, yes?

Of course, it might all change in your game, or my game.

4 hours ago, metcalph said:

My theory is that Ralzakark is the unnamed demon within the Plateau and he is still imited in his access.  

In my Dorastor, that is the Son of Thed, but I can see how it could also apply to Ralzakark.

[French Desperate WindChild]

13 hours ago, EricW said:

What prevents Ralzakark from reconstructing Nysalor/Gbaji in full? Why is his Dorastor still just a shadow of the First Age?

I may be wrong but the roots are different:

Nysalor (and the light empire) was mainly created by ordered people. I don't know how it was perverted  by chaos but the roots are Law and the empire was here before chaos was clearly seen and 'lawful' supporters flee.

Ralzakark reigns on Dorastor, the roots are Chaos. Beginning the red emperor, it should be "perverted" by law but the chaos is clearly seen before any 'lawful' supporters join a new empire.

 the glorantha age cycles make the rest: You are the mask of A, you are facing the mask of A's opponent. Bad luck for Ralzakark, A was defeated by its opponent

 

[Akhôrahil]

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Nysalor (and the light empire) was mainly created by ordered people. I don't know how it was perverted  by chaos but the roots are Law and the empire was here before chaos was clearly seen and 'lawful' supporters flee.

I don’t think Law was the predominant factor, but Light. And as a gigantic compromise-breach, it was inherently chaotic from the start (possibly unintentionally, but that hardly matters). Add in Chaos-acceptance by means of Illumination, and it was only ever going to go one way.

(Same story as with the Lunars, actually.)

Edited July 20, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Darius West]

On 7/20/2020 at 9:09 AM, EricW said:

What prevents Ralzakark from reconstructing Nysalor/Gbaji in full? Why is his Dorastor still just a shadow of the First Age? With Arkat broken and not seen since the Second Age, and with Arkat's victory further weakened by Sedenya tampering somehow with the Gbaji myth, what prevents Ralzakark from completing the job and creating a new City of Miracles, restoring Dorastor to its former "glory"?

What prevents it is that Ralzakark is not a nice guy.  As a broo, Ralzakark is much more interested in creating an environment for the rebirth of Wakboth and the rise of the broos, rather than in the subtle spiritual pollution of illumination and it's gibbering mad doctrine of blithely accepting contradictions.  That is why we get a monster empire not a bright empire.  Ralzakark understands that illumination is what allows him to steal power, and he doesn't care for the lunar practice of empowering its citizens in such a fashion.  That's my take on it anyhow.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Darius West

[Grievous]

5 hours ago, Darius West said:

the subtle spiritual pollution of illumination and it's gibbering mad doctrine of blithely accepting contradictions

[Qizilbashwoman]

13 hours ago, Darius West said:

As a broo

[davecake]

On 7/20/2020 at 7:09 AM, EricW said:

What prevents Ralzakark from reconstructing Nysalor/Gbaji in full?

Arkat put a lot of effort into making Nysalor difficult to reconstruct. Literally killing him, chopping him into pieces, and widely separating the pieces and then individually having them protected. So Ralzakark could heroquest to reconstruct Nysalor, but step 1 is 'retrieve all the parts of his body', and that is a very difficult practical problem, not impossible but currently unachievable. 

So he has to do it the hard way, without building directly on the power of Nysalor, but rebuilding it from scratch. And Ralzakark is impressive magically, but not in Nysalors league for raw power, and in Dorastor only has broken and corrupted raw materials to work with (many of which oppose him). And no one has any interest in letting him extend his influence beyond Dorastor. 

On 7/20/2020 at 7:09 AM, EricW said:

Why is his Dorastor still just a shadow of the First Age?

Because directly recreating Nysalors path is very difficult for the above practical reasons - so Ralzakark would either need to build his own Empire (and he just isn't that much of a magical heavy hitter) or take over someone elses Empire. The Red Goddess ( or the Red Emperor) did take the route of creating her own suitable Empire, used that power to make her own equivalent of the City of Miracles (the rather more impressive floating Red Moon) - but she is still using it. And the Red Emperor has no interest in letting Ralzakark play with his toys. 

On 7/20/2020 at 7:09 AM, EricW said:

With Arkat broken and not seen since the Second Age, and with Arkat's victory further weakened by Sedenya tampering somehow with the Gbaji myth, what prevents Ralzakark from completing the job and creating a new City of Miracles, restoring Dorastor to its former "glory"?

Magical resources. So instead, he waits for other major players to show weakness. And in the meantime, schemes, puts magical assets in place, and corrupts what he can. 

He will get his chance, but only because Argrath and Sheng and Jar-Eel all variously weaken the machinery of Empire to let Ralzakark try to usurp its magical resources. 

[Darius West]

On 7/22/2020 at 5:00 AM, Qizilbashwoman said:

You will find that Ralkzakark is in fact a broo.

[dumuzid]

He knows that just as Sedenya's emergence returned Arkat as Argrath to oppose the new god within Time, his full emergence would trigger the return in some form of his own ancient foe: the Only Old One, or possibly Kwaratch Kang.

[Ali the Helering]

6 hours ago, Darius West said:

You will find that Ralkzakark is in fact a broo.

Which is why he looks like a hollow human, or an unicorn.... 

[Dissolv]

This is one of those "TGMV" things, imo.   He IS a broo.  But he is other things besides.  I'm not sure if the concept of "actual body" or "original body" applies to him anymore. 

Dorastor is fascinating in many ways, and Ralzakark is one of the main draws.  Simply defined, he is not.

[Akhôrahil]

I wonder if anyone had an actual plan or explanation for the many versions of Ralzakark, or whether it was just done for shit and giggles. For instance, in the Genertela cover above, why are Harrek and Argrath fighting Ralzakark-with-the-Scorpion-Arm? He’s small fry compared to the Unicorn Emperor.

[Qizilbashwoman]

8 hours ago, Darius West said:

You will find that Ralkzakark is in fact a broo.

Ralzakark has broo parts of themself. But Ralzakark is not a broo anymore than I am an arm.

5 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I wonder if anyone had an actual plan or explanation for the many versions of Ralzakark, or whether it was just done for shit and giggles. For instance, in the Genertela cover above, why are Harrek and Argrath fighting Ralzakark-with-the-Scorpion-Arm? He’s small fry compared to the Unicorn Emperor.

Baby steps.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Qizilbashwoman

[Dissolv]

13 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

But Ralzakark is not a broo

Can you get me source on that?

[Qizilbashwoman]

1 minute ago, Dissolv said:

Can you get me source on that?

he's got three bodies, he's able to reproduce normally with Sesseine and bear a normal female child (Send Valu, consort to the Red Emperor), one of his forms is the Flat Man

broo cannot bear non-broo children - they produce larvae that tear free of the body that have animal heads. broo have animal heads. broo are not flat humans. broo do not have multiple bodies.

[Akhôrahil]

I’m inclined to believe Scorpion Arm when he says he’s the original. I wonder what happened there. Wouldn’t be surprised to learn it was experimental heroquesting.

[Dissolv]

5 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

he's got three bodies, he's able to reproduce normally with Sesseine and bear a normal female child (Send Valu, consort to the Red Emperor), one of his forms is the Flat Man

broo cannot bear non-broo children - they produce larvae that tear free of the body that have animal heads. broo have animal heads. broo are not flat humans. broo do not have multiple bodies.

That's not a source.  That's an interpretation.   And it isn't a bad one.......just..........

Me agreeing or disagreeing with it with it is not the point.  The point is that one can't state canonically "he is not a Broo" without struggling to cancel out that he is straight up called "the regal broo" in the Guide.  p. 343.  IIRC in Dorastor Land of Doom too.  He is additionally described as such in Secrets of Dorastor as well. 

"Sitting on the throne is a Broo wearing golden armor and a large necklace that covers most of his chest.  This is Ralzakark...."

So not only is Ralzakark a broo in everything that I own that describes him......which is everything published......we also learn that he likes Flava Flav style necklaces, a sure sign of Chaos.

 

[Ian Absentia]

1 hour ago, Dissolv said:

...we also learn that he likes Flava Flav style necklaces, a sure sign of Chaos.

Or that Ralzakark Speaks Truth to Power and Rocks the House.

!i!