Rune metal spears

[brionl]

OK, when you create an enchanted rune metal weapon, like a sword, and it gets broken, then you have to re-enchant it after you fix it?

What about spears and suchlike weapons where the most likely part to get broken is the shaft? Do you still have to re-enchant it after you put the head on another stick?

 

[Dirk Le Daring]

I have had this same question in my head too.

And another.....

Does taking the head off the spear shaft, and fixing it to a lance shaft break the enchantment ?

Essentially spear and lance heads are the "same".

[Agentorange]

3 hours ago, brionl said:

OK, when you create an enchanted rune metal weapon, like a sword, and it gets broken, then you have to re-enchant it after you fix it?

What about spears and suchlike weapons where the most likely part to get broken is the shaft? Do you still have to re-enchant it after you put the head on another stick?

 

My gut feeling is to say no.You should only have to re enchant if the bit with the enchantment on is damaged eg the spear head. But on a practical level how would you decide which bit of the spear took damage ?

Edited February 24, 2022 by Agentorange

[French Desperate WindChild]

from my perspective, it depends where is inscribed the enchantment

 

if you want to enchant the head, the head is enchanted not the full weapon.

I would say it is good if you want a matrix spell , a binding enchant or just the effect of the enchanted metal. It means if you replace the shaft you have a new weapon, with the same enchantment.

 

if you want to enchant the shaft, the shaft is enchanted not the full weapon.

I would say it is good if you want a matrix spell or a binding enchantment for example. It means if you replace the head you have a new weapon, with the same enchantment. Of course if you break (or burn) the shaft you break the enchantment

 

but sometimes (well... I don't see any enchantment in rqg like that...) you need to enchant the full weapon.

For example in previous RQ versions, you have enchantment to add Armor Point. In that case the full weapon must be enchanted. If you break the shaft, you break the enchantment. If you break the head, you break the enchantment .

 

[Scotty]

5 hours ago, brionl said:

OK, when you create an enchanted rune metal weapon, like a sword, and it gets broken, then you have to re-enchant it after you fix it?

What about spears and suchlike weapons where the most likely part to get broken is the shaft? Do you still have to re-enchant it after you put the head on another stick?

An interesting question, I've answered over at the the Q&A:

 

[JRE]

The question for me is what is the actual sequence. Do you enchant the metal and then forge the weapon? Or do you forge the weapon and then enchant it? In the first case, it is the spearhead which matters, as replacing shafts is a common activity in ancient armies. In the second, you lose it, because it is the weapon, not the metal part. 

[Stephen L]

I'd point out that a weapon breaks on -ve its initial HP and at 0 HP is "just" non functional.

P200, Core rules:

Quote

Like a human limb, a weapon can take damage equal to its normal hit points below 0. For example, a broadsword has 12 hit points, and can be reduced to –12 hit points. If these points are exceeded, the weapon is destroyed utterly, unrepairable, and may not even be salvageable.

I'd rule that weapons on 0 or less are not repairable in the field, but could be repaired at a smithy/armourer, and wouldn't need re-enchanting.

It's only beyond -ve initial hit-points that I'd have that the weapon needs to be remade rather than repaired, so would need re-enchanting. 

I've not seen many weapons break...

[Godlearner]

12 hours ago, brionl said:

OK, when you create an enchanted rune metal weapon, like a sword, and it gets broken, then you have to re-enchant it after you fix it?

What about spears and suchlike weapons where the most likely part to get broken is the shaft? Do you still have to re-enchant it after you put the head on another stick?

We have always played that the weapon was attuned as opposed to being enchanted, so no there is re-enchantment.

In regard to wooden shafts as with a spear, we have played that the weapon handle was reinforced with metal bindings or had a metal core. Thus, the entire weapon had weight gain (if it was lead) and other properties of the rune metal.

[PhilHibbs]

You can continue to use a broken weapon at half chance, and it still does the same damage. That says something about what the game system is trying to model with weapon damage. I'd say the enchantment is not broken, if only because I don't like to take the players' toys away.

Edited February 24, 2022 by PhilHibbs

[brionl]

So the answer is a definitive "Maybe". 🙂

Now I don't feel as bad about not finding the answer in the Q&A, because it wasn't there before.

Anyway, has anybody been crazy enough to use rune metal javelins or arrows?

[Ironwall]

1 hour ago, brionl said:

Anyway, has anybody been crazy enough to use rune metal javelins or arrows?

I imagine you would if you need to slay something you can't get close with so you enchant a javelin or arrow to kill it quickly and at range

[HreshtIronBorne]

I have seen UnEnchanted Iron used in Arrow heads, also Silver for harming werewolves and the like. Silver works either enchanted or not to hurt magically weak cretures. Any kind of Lead is a fantastic Sling Stone. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by HreshtIronBorne

[Godlearner]

1 hour ago, brionl said:

rune metal javelins or arrows?

Sure, then fighting trolls. The good thing about them is that you do not need to attune them. You can then locate the arrow heads with a Detect Iron spell

Edited February 24, 2022 by Godlearner

[HreshtIronBorne]

3 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

Sure, then fighting trolls. The good thing about them is that you do not need to attune them. You can then locate the arrow heads with a Detect Iron spell

Ooooh, that is a great Idea for a Hawkeye/Green Arrow-ish character with arrows for certain baddies and a couple of relevant deredtion spells.

 

These 6 Iron Arrows have slain 27 Trolls! Lol

[Ludo Bagman]

6 hours ago, brionl said:

Anyway, has anybody been crazy enough to use rune metal javelins or arrows?

Biturian Varosh gifted some iron-tipped arrows to a bison chieftain.

The weight of the arrowheads should be very low (150-300 grains = 10-20 g), so you can make around 50-100 arrowheads with 1 kg of iron.  This keeps the price of each arrowhead relatively low.

[Shiningbrow]

23 hours ago, brionl said:

What about spears and suchlike weapons where the most likely part to get broken is the shaft? Do you still have to re-enchant it after you put the head on another stick?

I'd say no, simply because of the name of the spell... Enchant (Rune Metal), not Enchant (Weapon) or Enchant (Wood).

So, it's only the head that's getting the enchantment in the first place! 

[PhilHibbs]

I think a strict reading of the rules would mean that each arrowhead has to be enchanted separately, so that's 1 POW per arrow. If that is enforced then I wouldn't expect a lot of enchanted iron, but raw iron still hurts trolls and elves just as good.

[Kloster]

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think a strict reading of the rules would mean that each arrowhead has to be enchanted separately, so that's 1 POW per arrow.

This is how I have always read it.

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

If that is enforced then I wouldn't expect a lot of enchanted iron, but raw iron still hurts trolls and elves just as good.

Ditto.

[JRE]

Scotty has posted in the Q&A thread

[Joerg]

On 2/24/2022 at 11:52 AM, JRE said:

The question for me is what is the actual sequence. Do you enchant the metal and then forge the weapon? Or do you forge the weapon and then enchant it? In the first case, it is the spearhead which matters, as replacing shafts is a common activity in ancient armies. In the second, you lose it, because it is the weapon, not the metal part. 

The "Enchant Metal" process has also been called "tempering", which usually means you take the completely hammered but not yet polished piece of metal and subject it to another treatment in the fire. Thus in my Glorantha, there would be no sense or meaning in enchanting an ingot of metal for further treatment. The enchantment stabilizes the shape that the previous process created.

Speaking as an archer, it is normal practice to re-shaft arrow tips after the shaft broke. Also speaking as an archer, it is rarely the shaft which does the work for penetrating a target. But then, you don't usually parry with an arrow.

Exchanging a shaft doesn't involve any metalworking, so any effect of "Enchant Metal" is not involved. Neither does applying nails through holes left in the socket.

Spearheads aren't usually involved in parrying an attack - the spear acts as a quarterstaff with some sharp weight on the end, or possibly on both ends if it has a butte. There are some medieval pole arms which have metal flanges along the shaft near the head of the weapon, but I don't think that's a technique used in any bronze weapon.

When parrying natural weapons rather than hand-held weapons, the spear head might be used. The longer the head, the greater the likelihood that it is used like a pole sword in a parry.

A similar consideration will go for axes. Unless the shaft is clad in metal covering or made from metal, the "Enchant metal" bonus will apply to the axehead only.

 

Spell matrices are usuall placed where your hand normally touches a weapon- the pommel for a sword, and the haft for an axe or a spear. Possibly this hand-hold has a leather wrapping, in which case the leather may carry the enchantment as an engraving or stitched on, or similar. Such a leather wrapping might be transferred when the shaft breaks.

 

A similar question will come up when a weapon with a dead crystal in the hilt breaks. Will the crystal take damage? Most likely not.

[Shiningbrow]

10 hours ago, Joerg said:

A similar question will come up when a weapon with a dead crystal in the hilt breaks. Will the crystal take damage? Most likely not.

Roll a percentile... If it's a Fumble (say, on a POW x 5) then it's hit.

[Shiningbrow]

15 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think a strict reading of the rules would mean that each arrowhead has to be enchanted separately, so that's 1 POW per arrow. If that is enforced then I wouldn't expect a lot of enchanted iron, but raw iron still hurts trolls and elves just as good.

I thought I read somewhere that an Enchant (Rune Metal) would affect about 10 arrowheads.... 😕

(That's a rather odd emoji for confusion!)

[Akhôrahil]

Since most weapons are hafted (swords and daggers are the exception, not the rule), you could easily rule that you only need half the Enc of metal for those weapons (this obviously differs wildly even among hafted weapons, but you have to draw the line somewhere), but they don’t get extra HP, but they can also be repaired without re-enchanting and using only Woodworking if they break.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[David Scott]

7 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I thought I read somewhere that an Enchant (Rune Metal) would affect about 10 arrowheads.... 😕

(That's a rather odd emoji for confusion!)

Given that a quiver with 12 arrows has an ENC of 1, and that the spell is per 10 ENC, I'd let you do 120...

[Shiningbrow]

18 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Since most weapons are hafted (swords and daggers are the exception, not the rule), you could easily rule that you only need half the Enc of metal for those weapons (this obviously differs wildly even among hafted weapons, but you have to draw the line somewhere), but they don’t get extra HP, but they can also be repaired without re-enchanting and using only Woodworking if they break.

Hit locations for weapons??