Moon Design running Chaosium?

[Mankcam]

Well I think consolidation of all these lines is good, and it is great that Pete & Loz are remaining as lead writers for RuneQuest, so I'm pretty comfortable with this.

Given that Glorantha is the key setting for Moon Design, it was logical that RuneQuest returns to it as a gaming world. It has been a favourite setting of mine, so this is great news. I love most things Gloranthan, and greatly prefer running RuneQuest in the setting as opposed to HeroQuest.

However I see no good reason why the next RuneQuest should not be published as 'RuneQuest: Adventures In Glorantha', I think this is a good title for the main rulebook and the line in general.

In addition to this, I would also very much like to see a slim, stripped down core rulebook (perhaps just RuneQuest Essentials, minus the magic systems, and make it setting agnostic). Something the size of GORE up to RQ Essentials would do the trick. Hardcover of course, there's no point not doing so these days, otherwise people just buy the pdf versions instead.

Having this smaller generic core rule book would be great from the point of view that GMs can use it to build their own settings, and still allow for supplements of the likes of Mythic Britain and Luther Arkwright (I wonder if we will ever see Mythic Constantinople now?). This also provides a core rule toolkit for other authors wanting to publish settings using RQ, such as Korantia, Classic Fantasy and Chronicles of Future Earth. In addition, many of the books published by Alephetar Games could easily be ported from BRP BGB into RuneQuest as well, securing a place for Alephetar Games to provide Fantasy Earth supplements for RuneQuest.

In many ways I now prefer the more recent incarnations of the BRP system, such as RQ6, Legend, OpenQuest, Renaissance etc, so making RQ6 a priority product line works for me. However, having a generic set of these rules in print also seems logical, as Chaosium attracted me back to the BRP system when they published the BGB. 

In some ways I would also like an overhaul of CoC 7E to be more consistent with RQ6 to an extent, with the same Characteristics and Common Skills; It does not make sense for it to be a different build of BRP now. Hopefully its not too late one would hope; even though the pdfs are available, the actual hard copies are not yet printed...

Lastly, even though it may now be seen as a low priority, I would still hope there is a place for a 'BRP Legacy' line of games within Chaosium. Something for the die hard fans who aren't really digging the new flavours of BRP. Basically just keeping the BGB alive and ticking. I would see this as a great place for the likes of Ben Monroe to be producing the MagicWorld books, and also perhaps a good space for independent writers to keep the monographs alive (even if only as pdfs)

However I am really happy that a bullet has been dodged, and that Chaosium is not history. Moon Design involvement can only be a good thing, and now that I know RuneQuest and Design Mechanism are remaining as permanent features then I'm reasonably happy with all this.

 

 

 

Sorry my previous post was cross posted by mistake, but its just as relevant here as in the RuneQuest thread. 

In relation to Moon Design's Glorantha, I think Glorantha is in the best presentation it has ever been. I love seeing other areas in addition to the Sartar/Prax region. I did not care too much for The West before, but now the Guide For Glorantha presents the Malkioni as having a culture which is possibly more Late Antiquity influenced (instead of a Medieval clone), then I'm really eager to see what they do with Seshnela, Ralios, Loskalm, and Maniria.

(I added the above as a separate comment, but it appears to be merged - sorry for any confusion)

 

Edited August 2, 2015 by Mankcam

[Guest Vile Traveller]

However I see no good reason why the next RuneQuest should not be published as 'RuneQuest: Adventures In Glorantha', I think this is a good title for the main rulebook and the line in general.

In addition to this, I would also very much like to see a slim, stripped down core rulebook (perhaps just RuneQuest Essentials, minus the magic systems, and make it setting agnostic). Something the size of GORE up to RQ Essentials would do the trick. Hardcover of course, there's no point not doing so these days, otherwise people just buy the pdf versions instead.

I would much prefer to keep the existing RQ6 rules with AiG as an option for that part of RuneQuest fandom that likes Glorantha. An even more basic version of RQ Essentials as you describe would be very nice for things like Luther Arkwright (come on, postie, where is it!?).

Most of all, I hope Chaosium does the WotC thing and makes all editions available in PDF and PoD, at least the ones for which they have copyright. Nobody seems to have mentioned that, though. I hope someone who is in contact with them does at some point.

[Mankcam]

I would much prefer to keep the existing RQ6 rules with AiG as an option for that part of RuneQuest fandom that likes Glorantha. An even more basic version of RQ Essentials as you describe would be very nice for things like Luther Arkwright (come on, postie, where is it!?).

Most of all, I hope Chaosium does the WotC thing and makes all editions available in PDF and PoD, at least the ones for which they have copyright. Nobody seems to have mentioned that, though. I hope someone who is in contact with them does at some point.

Keeping RQ6 in print, at least as a PDF/PoD, would seem like a worthwhile thing to do I reckon. This goes for the BGB as well.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Mankcam

[Guest Vile Traveller]

Well, I've started a thread on the Moon Design forums (terrible forum software) in the hope that they will keep RQ6 setting-independent. I see Mankam's already added his voice.

http://www.glorantha.com/forums/topic/chaosium-glorantha-runequest/

Edited August 2, 2015 by Vile

[Mankcam]

Yes, I added my voice, such as it is   Time for a few more to follow on the fight, let them know what we would like to happen with these properties

(I missed the peace rallies in the 60s & 70s, so I might as well make up for it with something almost as worthwhile, lol)

Edited August 2, 2015 by Mankcam

[soltakss]

(I added the above as a separate comment, but it appears to be merged - sorry for any confusion)

Yes, the merging feature is really annoying.

[RosenMcStern]

I was quite tempted to add my voice to yours, but I will wait until you get a reply from the MD management. I think Jeff or Rick will address your points as soon as they are back from GenCon.

Vile, the point you made yesterday on rpg.net was very sensible and well argumented. Could you repost it here? Almost any thread on rpg.net turns into a mudslinging contest (with multimissile on the slings), so I am afraid of replying there.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

You mean this one?

Setting aside the matter of whether gamers like, dislike, or are disinterested in Glorantha, I personally find it an odd decision at this point to create an RQ7 entwined with Glorantha (I'm using RQ7 for clarity, whether it's called that or not). If you like Glrorantha, what is the problem with buying a setting-neutral RuneQuest rulebook and AiG? That is not a rhetorical question, I would like Gloranthaphiles to elaborate on that point. The argument that you can still use RQ7 without Glorantha has merit (I have been doing the same with RQ2/3 since the early 80s) but it is still a disincentive, as it has been for many people in previous editions. I know from experience that it will make it harder for me to gather interested players for an RQ7 game, as it always has in the past. I would be much, much happier if that one bit of news was left out of the otherwise quite promising raft of announcements.

Why change tracks at this time of upheaval? I still hope that this decision will be reversed.

Of course I would have preferred BRP to become the core driver of everything Chaosium, but we all knew that was never going to happen. My hope now is that Pete's creative energies can remain directed at something more useful than re-writing a perfectly excellent rulebook.

[Mankcam]

Yes, you covered it well Vile.

I occasionally lurk a little over at RPGNet to keep an eye on some of my other rpg systems of interest, but I'm not a big poster there

I will check out the replies on that thread, but from experience I tend to agree with Paolo that posting on RPGNet can be an issue sometimes, due to the tantrums that has been known to occur there. 

I don't often get involved too much on RPGNet due to this, but it is a good place to get coverage.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Mankcam

[RosenMcStern]

 

The argument that you can still use RQ7 without Glorantha has merit (I have been doing the same with RQ2/3 since the early 80s) but it is still a disincentive, as it has been for many people in previous editions. I know from experience that it will make it harder for me to gather interested players for an RQ7 game, as it always has in the past.

Exactly. For those who are already in love with the excellent RQ6, having the official edition turn into a Gloranthan focused game again will not be a problem. Nor will it put at a stake the amount of support for low fantasy / historical settings (and if _I_ say that, you can believe it).

What I am unsure about is whether the connubium will help draw more people into RQ, This happened three decades ago, but the context is different now.

[Sunwolfe]

As I understand it, the re-version of RQ6 into RQ7 (using Vile's RQ7 designation for clarity) is a condition of the licensing contract as outlined by Loz in the “Chaosium, Design Mechanism and RuneQuest: A Statement” thread. While I agree that it is a shame that RQ6’s setting neutrality will no longer be in print as its own title, all wishes aside, does DM have much choice in the matter? Do I understand that right…that this is a condition of the licensing agreement and therefore a nonnegotiable?

[Chaot]

While the original goal in writing the D100II SRD was to allow people to play the Gloranthan Classics without resorting to auction sites for their RQ2 rulebook, I had also hoped that there might be some people who would write Gateway adventures in the manner of Judges Guild and the like. Sadly that doesn't seem to have happened. Maybe when GLYPHMASTER™ is done ...

Trippy, unfortunately the answer to your question about what has changed between the RQ2 Glorantha and the current HW Glorantha is likely to fill several encyclopediae. Before the internet "Gregging" was a commonly-used term in the RQ community for retro-conning, which caused quite a few problems for campaigns back in the day so the issue wasn't born with Moon Design. Suffice to say that the Glorantha presented in the RQ2 and RQ3 era was substantially different, and infinitely simpler to get a handle on, than the Glorantha of today. Even back in the 80s people complained that Glorantha gave RQ too steep an entry learning curve. This may not matter if you're content to stick with older products, but most people who game in a published setting expect to expand their campaign with official material so those changes can be disorienting at best and contradictory at worst.

Of course, change has two possible outcomes, fans either like it or they don't, and there are plenty of people in both camps in this case. I find myself very much in Baron's position so I tend to ignore post-RQ2 Glorantha as being just too exhausting for me to keep up with, never mind the fact that the changes to a more mythic emphasis run counter to my personal gaming taste. While I rather like RQ6 I had hoped that it would remain forever separate from Glorantha outside the realm of supplements, I was even a teeny bit disappointed that the setting used in the book for examples proved so popular. Since WoW I have always hoped that the RQ engine could be the GURPS alternative, but all Chaosium product lines seem destined to be firmly tied to particular settings.

Anyway, I await further news. If anyone wants to get some D100II adventures out there, you know where to find me.

EDIT: Oh, and I hope there will be a decent company forum software! I gave up on the Moon Design one long ago, and I was incredibly relieved that The Design Mechanism got rid of their first version.

Funnily enough, I was looking around at some of these ogl type things.  I think GORE actually comes closest to what I play at home.  I've been playing with some radical revisions to some magic systems.  Maybe I should just rewrite it from the ground up.  If the system I use is going to go away I will want some resources out there.

[simonh]

As I understand it, the re-version of RQ6 into RQ7 (using Vile's RQ7 designation for clarity) is a condition of the licensing contract...

The new edition will be called just plain RuneQuest with no number, so adding a spurious '7' is just going to confuse things.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Chaot]

By the by, Ben just posted over at RPGNet.  WM looks like it will be fine.

[Nick J.]

By the by, Ben just posted over at RPGNet.  WM looks like it will be fine.

I'm very relieved to hear that.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

It's always just been called RuneQuest by the publisher (I guess Mongoose stands out by having a RuneQuest II), all the acronyms are fan-creations. Not adding a 7 will confuse things. Anyway, now that Loz and Ben have made some statements I'll to wait and see what Chaosium do.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Vile

[Simlasa]

By the by, Ben just posted over at RPGNet.  WM looks like it will be fine.

At least it sounds like BRP/Magic World haven't been assigned to death row yet.

Even if it's just a trickle of PDF support ala GURPS... and some more coolness from Alephtar, I'll be OK with it... vs. nothing at all.

 

[tooley1chris]

This will come as great relief to MW fans, Thanks Ben!

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?762340-Moon-Design-Joins-Chaosium-Ownership-Group/page14&p=19249509#post19249509

[Chaot]

At least it sounds like BRP/Magic World haven't been assigned to death row yet.

Even if it's just a trickle of PDF support ala GURPS... and some more coolness from Alephtar, I'll be OK with it... vs. nothing at all.

 

Slow trickle is fine with me.  When I introduce people to the system though, I get a better response when the system is actually in print.  This is why I now play 'Magic World' instead of 'Elric!'.

[jean]

I was relieved by the statement from Ben.

Slow trickle is fine by me too.

I was worried that BRP and Magic World would be abandonned.

I have a sweet spot in my heart for BRP.

 

 

 

[smiorgan]

Slow trickle is fine with me.  When I introduce people to the system though, I get a better response when the system is actually in print.  This is why I now play 'Magic World' instead of 'Elric!'.

 I'm very happy that Ben is still onboard (as we all hoped) and that BRP/ MW are still in Chaosium's plans. Slow trickle is not a problem as long as the quality is consistent and each game line has a clear direction.

Such a situation reminds me of the old good days when Chaosium published several different games with variants of the BRP system. Stormbringer was not Elfquest, which was not RQ or CoC and Ringworld had its own rules and Pendragon was marledly different. There were family resemblances rather than a common core.

Funnily enough with CoC7, RQ6, BRP and MW we go back to a situation that is similar to the old days: games based on similar systems, rather than on a generic core. Maybe the idea of the BGB as the core system is over but this is not a tragedy.

 

[Hexelis]

Thank you Ben. Long live BRP!!!

[Mankcam]

 

...Maybe the idea of the BGB as the core system is over but this is not a tragedy.

 

Well maybe not a tragedy, but a  shame in any case. I really prefer the model that GURPS and Savage Worlds use with having a core system and working off that. Savage Worlds particularly did well with this, having a single, slim core rulebook containing all the main nuts and bolts for a GM to build from. 

Ironically enough, if GORE remains in print as a PoD then perhaps its the next best thing.

GORE is quite a slim, concise read, and its system agnostic. It may surprisingly be a BGB replacement once again. If GORE contained a few more detailed Spot Rules, then it could certainly be almost as good, especially more so considering it is a free pdf. Maybe its time for a slightly bigger edition, to be published as a slim hardcover. Keeping it slim and simple is one of the strengths of the product, making it a good entry to BRP for new GMs.

Although if you want to point someone in the direction of the more recent builds of BRP then Renaissance or OQ Basics may also fare well for generic toolkits.

That aside, I'm really happy for Pete & Loz remaining firm fixtures of RuneQuest, as they have been the driving force of the product for the past decade. I am also happy that Ben Monroe is sounding even more enthusiastic than he normally does, so that's also a good thing for the BRP BGB lines in any case.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2015 by Mankcam

[Mysterioso]

Well maybe not a tragedy, but a  shame in any case. I really prefer the model that GURPS and Savage Worlds use with having a core system and working off that. Savage Worlds particularly did well with this, having a single, slim core rulebook containing all the main nuts and bolts for a GM to build from. 

Ironically enough, if GORE remains in print as a PoD then perhaps its the next best thing.

GORE is quite a slim, concise read, and its system agnostic. It may surprisingly be a BGB replacement once again. If GORE contained a few more detailed Spot Rules, then it could certainly be almost as good, especially more so considering it is a free pdf. Maybe its time for a slightly bigger edition, to be published as a slim hardcover. Keeping it slim and simple is one of the strengths of the product, making it a good entry to BRP for new GMs.

Although if you want to point someone in the direction of the more recent builds of BRP then Renaissance or OQ Basics may also fare well for generic toolkits.

That aside, I'm really happy for Pete & Loz remaining firm fixtures of RuneQuest, as they have been the driving force of the product for the past decade. I am also happy that Ben Monroe is sounding even more enthusiastic than he normally does, so that's also a good thing for the BRP BGB lines in any case.

 

 

Bolding above added by me.

If some of the non-MW BRP offerings are going to slip away, I hope the authors would be freed up to take them to other D100 systems.  (For instance, I strongly suspect that Aces High could be redone with a tweaking of Renaissance. All the Aces High material already published re-edited for Renaissance and pulled together into a core book and a scenario book would be welcome at least by me.)    

[threedeesix]

If some of the non-MW BRP offerings are going to slip away, I hope the authors would be freed up to take them to other D100 systems.  (For instance, I strongly suspect that Aces High could be redone with a tweaking of Renaissance.

The Monograph authors never gave up the rights to their work when Chaosium printed them. I owned the rights to Classic Fantasy right up to the point I signed on with TDM. The only thing Chaosium owned was their game system. Which isn't all that hard to pull out and insert a new one. Just ask me, I've done it three times.  ;-)

Rod