Designing scenarios that make Ernalda shine

[Joerg]

oIn the Women in Glorantha thread over on the Glorantha forum,

On 12/29/2019 at 4:10 AM, Bohemond said:

One thing I've wrestled with in terms of making women's stuff dynamic and interesting for players is the fact that Orlanth has lots of 'cool bits'. For example, he's associated with poetry (and I wrote a myth about how Orlanth Stole the Ale of Poetry from the Bright Emperor). One can do a variety of neat things with the idea of Orlanthi poetry--like Bronze Age rap battles and so on. Orlanth has his Six Virtues--Hospitality gives us a chance to do the Greeting Ritual. Generosity allows things like Beowulf-style ring giving. 

But Ernalda doesn't seem to have a lot of comparable things to that--things that would make players say "wow, that's neat! I wanna be able to do that!" For Ernalda to be really equal in terms of playability, it seems to me that Ernalda needs similar cool bits. She doesn't, for example, have a comparable list of Virtues and practices connected to them. In other words, stuff that adds to 'on-stage' play and makes an Ernaldan player feel like she's in a Norse saga or something comparable.

So what cool bits does Ernalda have? Any thoughts? 

I don't think this is as big a problem in HeroQuest as it is in RuneQuest. HeroQuest has a number of scenarios and lots of plot hooks centered on Ernalda, whether in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes or in the Red Cow books. RQG has the Quickstart scenario which has bits to allow Ernalda to shine, but the GM Screen Adventure Book is fairly male-cult oriented. The Smoking Ruins are an invitation to bring forth your shamanic characters.

 

Once you go into intra- and inter-clan (and -tribal) politics, Ernalda comes into her strength. And Game of Thrones shows that intrigue and hard-nosed family politics have a huge audience. (Ok, the display of nudity may have helped a bit, too... but that's nothing that Glorantha cannot or will not provide.)

The problem with this is that there is a significant buy-in hurdle to overcome.

The Coming Storm provides a perfect set-up for Ernaldan politics inside the Red Cow clan, with several NPCs in key positions and poised at the throats of one another. It still lacks the same for the clans that these women are aligned to, and in the enemy clans.

Ian Cooper had to "dumb down" his original cast of 120 NPCs to a barely manageable cast of 60, and here I come and say "fine, this gives us about five major Ernaldan patrons/players and maybe a few of their followers, and of course their husbands and sons, but it lacks their counterpoints in other clans." Sure, these "NPC players" (what's a good term for that?) in the other clans can be outlined in the scenario where these conflicts are resolved. But it does create an overhead of too many faces and names unless you introduce them memorably.

That leads to the problem of dramatic introduction of NPCs before they are actually allowed to shine. Unlike on the TV screen, this has to be through meaningful and memorabe interaction with player characters. And ideally edited into the player character backstories.

Cinema introduces new NPCs in the Star Wars manner (like Lando Calrissian, or Maz Kanata). Someone one of the party members or a support character of the party has a relationship with. That's fine for people who are outside of a character's back story, but a character's back story may involve a huge number of yet nameless plot hooks. And the player needs to be on board with this "another face from your past that we haven't discussed yet" approach. After all, table-top roleplaying is about player agency.

TV series use flashbacks for the introduction of new characters. Roleplaying past events produces certain limits on the outcome, though, especially in a skill-based game like RuneQuest where every activity is likely to leave skill checks behind. While it is possible to add these skill gains posthumously, it may create weird situations where they would have been a life-saver in an event between the flashback and the current game situation.

 

This basically puts a lot of presentation work on the shoulders of the GM, and demands more than just fleeting involvement with the character's past from the player.

The Gloranthan Freeform games like Life of Moonson provide a lot of character background networking the player character with a bunch of other characters, and also dropping quests to interact with (possibly yet other) characters in order to achieve a goal.

In a table-top game, this might be seen as an illicit aggression against the player's alter ego that the player has built if not over many game sessions then at least in their mind.

[Prinz Slasar]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

 

I don't think this is as big a problem in HeroQuest as it is in RuneQuest. HeroQuest has a number of scenarios and lots of plot hooks centered on Ernalda, whether in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes or in the Red Cow books. RQG has the Quickstart scenario which has bits to allow Ernalda to shine, but the GM Screen Adventure Book is fairly male-cult oriented. The Smoking Ruins are an invitation to bring forth your shamanic characters.

The JC scenario This Fertile Ground fits in here, because it's an Ernalda plot and well suited for Ernaldan characters.

Edited December 30, 2019 by prinz.slasar

[Gallowglass]

Partly why I’m excited for more material on Esrolia is that the whole setting is “Ernaldan politics.”

[Bohemond]

1 hour ago, prinz.slasar said:

The JC scenario The Fertile Ground fits in here, because it's an Ernalda plot and well suited for Ernaldan characters.

I just bought this but haven't had a chance to read it yet. I'm definitely excited about the idea. 

[Prinz Slasar]

2 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I would personally like more politics / intrigue.

 

This topic is something I would like to explore in case of the upcoming Nochet material. I mean, Esrolia is the absolute and ultimate playground for Ernaldan characters.

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, prinz.slasar said:

This topic is something I would like to explore in case of the upcoming Nochet material. I mean, Esrolia is the absolute and ultimate playground for Ernaldan characters.

And along with it there are a whole set of skills that really have not been explored/utilized yet to support it.

Communication skills now include not only Bargain, Fast Talk, and Orate, but Charm, Intimidate, and Intrigue, as well as Act, Dance and Sing.  Knowledge has added Bureaucracy, Customs, and Manage Household, not to mention the varied Lores and Library Use. Perception now includes Insight(species). There's a lot to exploit here within a politics/intrigue setting.

 

[galafrone]

We started the group when RQG pdf came out last year (we started in june) and my wife ended up rolling an ernaldan healer, grazelander born.

I decided to play balazar, because it has a sandbox that is free from the need to inform of 1 million cultural niceties the classic sartar setting has and i had players (read my wife but also other) that never played in glorantha.

She adapted quickly, taking the role of the healer but carving up a major role in balazar politics.

Now after 18 months of weekly sessions, she has been able to get the permission to build a temple of Ernalda in Dykene from King Skilfill (after saving him and his son from a nasty lunar assassination plot that saw her on the front line against the mythic gondo holst and even dying because of a succesful divine intervention calling the fiend of cacodaemon). She has won the political battle with the 2 hearthmother priestess in dykene, and asserted herself as invaluable support for that comunity. All doing also adventures that saw the party almost reaching griffin mountain in deep dark season, the bargain with Gonn Orta, being the emissary of Skilfill at the elven court of the Bear Woods and many other fantastic tales.

And yes, now she has a temple in Dykene that is growing each day

(also ask what the other fellas think of her Heal Body spell… )

1 of the other players is a Dykenean Yelmalion, 1 has grown up a nice Babester Gor initiate that is sword defender of most Holy Yorastina, mother of Rukhami the twice blessed, another is Velska, the balazar native girl, disfigured by her clan because of a dispute and rejected, adopted by Yorastina as beloved sister. 

So yes, the Whole party now is centered on her, and she is very happy of her semi-random initial choice.

Ernalda in this iteration of RQ has PLENTY of possibilities to be a very nice, viable and useful cult. Also it's very very powerful

All hail the Earth Mother

[galafrone]

4 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

And along with it there are a whole set of skills that really have not been explored/utilized yet to support it.

Communication skills now include not only Bargain, Fast Talk, and Orate, but Charm, Intimidate, and Intrigue, as well as Act, Dance and Sing.  Knowledge has added Bureaucracy, Customs, and Manage Household, not to mention the varied Lores and Library Use. Perception now includes Insight(species). There's a lot to exploit here within a politics/intrigue setting.

 

Indeed, my wife is using them all. And if the setting is not only a "kill the broo" all of them make for exciting roleplaying court and social situations, that in balazar (mine balazar at least) are plenty to be found

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I would personally like more politics / intrigue.  However, in my experience, that can be difficult to play. 

Yes. I think I might have said something to this extent in my opening statment, too (which admittedly is on the verbose side...)

2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Also, many of the players "get more than enough" politics and intrigue in their day to day lives, and don't want to get more of that in their fantasy escape.  They are brown-nosing their real boss to get a promotion, and don't want to role play brown-nosing the Orlanth Priest to get that magic crystal or minor title.  Very few players get to slay demons and cast Strength spells in their real lives.  🙂

There's that. But like I said, the niche-surpassing success of Game of Thrones shows that there are plenty people out there enjoying their backstabbing and intrigue, too. And it might be cathartic to make at least some of the backstabbing actual backstabbing in the game...

 

2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Also, in our limited experience, Ernaldans are difficult to play in Runequest.  There are too many demands on your POW.  A fighter type can sacrifice a bit of POW to gain Rune Spells without greatly affecting their abilities.  When they get checks in Orate, Listen, Sword, and POW, they are happy for the variety.

That's if you use that POW for fighting. In my idea of an Ernaldan game, the Ernaldan has a sidekick - her husband (or son, or maybe tomboy sister) who does the boring stuff like hitting or shielding people. A good Ernaldan can wield a husband or two like a Humakti can wield a sword, even if you give the actual detail control of that sidekick to a different player than the Ernaldan herself.

 

2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

The Ernandan needs high POW to cast offensive spells and control Elementals.  But she needs to sacrifice POW to get them (and the other "cool" Earthy / Fertility spells).  When she gets checks in Orate, Listen, Axe, and POW, she's o.k. with it, but is really mumbling "wish I could put all four checks into POW, that's all I really care about".

For example, our Ernaldan player has not yet summoned her Elemental (over ~6 sessions) because she's pretty sure she cannot control it, and doesn't want to trust the GM to save the day.

Yeah. With 3 rune points, you spend two on a medium sized elemental and command that with your remaining rune point.

[Shiningbrow]

9 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

For example, our Ernaldan player has not yet summoned her Elemental (over ~6 sessions) because she's pretty sure she cannot control it, and doesn't want to trust the GM to save the day.

She doesn't really need to. If she loses control, then it's most likely going to just sit there pounding on the dirt. There is no *good* reason it would attack her (or the rest of the party). Uncontrolled elements just do their normal elementally thing... (as per Bestiary)

 

 

[Grievous]

16 hours ago, Joerg said:

Ian Cooper had to "dumb down" his original cast of 120 NPCs to a barely manageable cast of 60

That'd make a sweet downloadable product (and/or for JC). Family trees would make me extra happy too. JUS' SAYIN'. 🤪

[Shiningbrow]

11 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

That doesn't exactly "Make Ernalda Shine" now, does it?  🙂

The lack of control? No.

But not willing to *risk* it (when there's not actually anything risky about it) - that's the player stopping themselves from shining!

[Lordabdul]

On 12/31/2019 at 6:01 PM, Shiningbrow said:

But not willing to *risk* it (when there's not actually anything risky about it) - that's the player stopping themselves from shining!

I somewhat agree -- to me, the difference between casting "Command Elemental" or not is whether the player plays the NPC, or the GM play it. I can't really picture the GM making the elemental turn on the caster unless there's a very good reason. Worst case the elemental is useless. But an elemental is a spirit, and can therefore be communicated with. I would probably at first summon the elemental, ask it nicely, and only cast a command spell if it starts to misbehave... but pretty quickly I would sacrifice POW for a Binding Enchantment and bind an elemental to a bracelet or other item. Remember that if you spend the Rune points for a "Command Elemental" spell when you release the bound elemental, it succeeds automatically. That will help @Rodney Dangerduck's player in having a reliable elemental to throw at enemies -- plus, it can have a cute pet name at that point.

On 12/30/2019 at 1:33 PM, galafrone said:

So yes, the Whole party now is centered on her, and she is very happy of her semi-random initial choice.

That's really awesome!

On 12/30/2019 at 10:55 AM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I would personally like more politics / intrigue.  However, in my experience, that can be difficult to play.  Also, many of the players "get more than enough" politics and intrigue in their day to day lives, and don't want to get more of that in their fantasy escape.

If the players don't want more politics and intrigue, then that's awesome: less work for the GM! Players who just want pizza and some fun dungeon crawling are the easiest (unless they're rules lawyers or whatever of course). But the OP is about making Ernalda characters shine, and one thing that Ernalda is good at is politics and intrigue, so there's a good chance the Ernalda character's player would be happy with that. Building and managing an Earth temple like in @galafrone's campaign could actually even be part-politics and part-management -- and sure, I know many players who would be appalled if I brought a resource management simulator to the table... but then again I know a few who would love it.

Of course, Ernalda isn't all about politics so it's fair to look at how Ernalda characters can kick ass at combat and weaving and heroquesting and crop management or whatever. Blessing stuff or protecting households are a common thing people ask of Earth priestesses so that's a good way to get NPCs to do more work for your party. Playing a whole adventure around Sacred Time or the Earth season harvest/ritual, leading into limited heroquesting could also have the Ernalda character at the forefront.

But really, "how to make Ernalda characters shine" is as much of an open-ended question as "how to make a PC shine". It really depends on what the payer controlling the character wants/likes. For one it might be micro-management of an Earth temple, while for another it would be Ernaldan/Aldryami joint magic to kill monsters with plants and earth spirits.

Back to politics: I don't think it's that difficult to GM or play. It's indeed overwhelming when you get something like the Red Cow clan book thrown in your face, but it's a lot easier when the GM does it herself, NPC by NPC, choice by choice, adventure by adventure. Really, "playing politics" is about giving players non-black-and-white choices -- something that RQ has had in its DNA since the beginning by the way. When D&D was all about helping the villagers by killing the goblins raiding their fields, RQ was already saying that the goblins trolls maybe have a good reason, maybe they're pushed to do that by Scorpionmen and Cacodemon priests, and they have families to feed, and they're not just "monsters"... so you already have a choice between killing the trolls, or looking deeper, creating relationships between factions, getting the trolls to rebel, etc. Then, you add some more layers: some of the villagers are Elmali and hate trolls, or the nearby Yelmalio faction is coming around to ask what the fuck is this about people being friends to trolls now. But the Yelmalio faction needs to be kept happy because the villagers are hiring them every now and then to fight off Praxians or Tusk Raiders or whatever. And the tribe chieftain suddenly shows up because one of his thanes (secretly a Cacodemon follower) told him a lie to mess up the situation some more because he's upset the trolls (with help from the PCs) have killed his buddies in the original adventure and destroyed his temple. All of this can be done without any violence on the PCs' part, and all of it can be driven by an Earth priestess who will eventually replace the corrupt thane or something. And all of this can be done one "layer" at a time without having to plan it all in advance: I actually wrote each sentence without knowing yet what would be the next one. It's really just "Yes, and..." improvisation.

On 12/30/2019 at 8:16 AM, Joerg said:

I don't think this is as big a problem in HeroQuest as it is in RuneQuest. HeroQuest has a number of scenarios and lots of plot hooks centered on Ernalda, whether in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes or in the Red Cow books.

I'll argue that it's easier in HQ because of the ruleset, not because of the published scenarios. If you want to keep the spotlight on politics, it's easy: if there's a combat, make one roll, move on. The aftermath of the fight might be this tense negotiation of compensations that requires an extended context... on the other hand, with RQ, the combat would be at least a 30min affair (if not 3 times that), taking the spotlight away from the following negotiation (which can still be a tense, multiple-opposed-rolls scene, but which will always be shorter than a fully simulated combat).

Edited January 2, 2020 by lordabdul
typo

[jajagappa]

22 hours ago, lordabdul said:

on the other hand, with RQ, the combat would be at least a 30min affair (if not 3 times that)

You realize that if you want a short combat because it's a minor piece, you can just use the Opposed Rolls pitting one weapon skill vs the other and be done with it. It really can work as simply in RQG as in HQG.

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

You realize that if you want a short combat because it's a minor piece, you can just use the Opposed Rolls pitting one weapon skill vs the other and be done with it. It really can work as simply in RQG as in HQG.

I did think about it as I was writing my last post, but then I started thinking about the various ramifications of doing such a thing... even if it's just once every few encounters, it does raise a bunch of questions about which skills are worth spending points into, investment in spells and magic items, how to figure out how badly hurt any character is after the encounter, etc... I realized that, to be fair to the players, you'd have to come up with "proper" rules for quick encounters, but then you might end up re-inventing HQG, but at the same time having this weird thing where the "resolution" (in the "granularity" sense) of scenes would vary a LOT (from 2 rolls to 1 hour's worth of rolling!) and that it might make the system so schizophrenic that you would realize you're really trying to play 2 different games at the same time and maybe your players' expectations are actually not compatible and aaaaaargh so I stopped thinking about it and I deleted a whole paragraph but now I kinda had to write it again and aaaaargh

(but yes, on paper, you could do that very occasionally as needed)

Edited January 3, 2020 by lordabdul

[Austin]

2 hours ago, lordabdul said:

how to figure out how badly hurt any character is after the encounter, etc... I realized that, to be fair to the players, you'd have to come up with "proper" rules for quick encounters,

Like rolling the Battle skill?

[Bill the barbarian]

1 minute ago, Crel said:

Like rolling the Battle skill?

Similar I am sure but maybe more like an arm wrestling competition.

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, Crel said:

Like rolling the Battle skill?

No the Battle skill is for being part of, well, a battle. As in: being just one person in a whole army, as opposed to being in a party of half a dozen or less people involved in a quick skirmish.

Jeff mentioned that some Battle-skill-related rules were coming in the GM book, and that they let you figure out what was your experience of the battle (as opposed to figuring out who won the battle, which is up to whoever is in charge of the higher level strategy and all that).

[Austin]

52 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

No the Battle skill is for being part of, well, a battle. As in: being just one person in a whole army, as opposed to being in a party of half a dozen or less people involved in a quick skirmish.

I feel like the Battle skill would still be a decent place to start though, if you're looking to abbreviate fights. It has rules for randomized wounds which could be useful. Winner is victor in an opposed roll.

I don't know if I'd give all the rewards for a successful roll for a short engagement, but using Battle as a fiat "combat's over" seems more appropriate than choosing a single weapon--plus it's already got a wounds system built in if you flub the roll.

[Qizilbashwoman]

1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I GMed a solo adventure years ago where I stole from one of my favorite books, Connie Willis' Doomsday Book .  The PC was in a village being ravaged by the plague and her goal was to try to retain some basic normalcy.  Might be tough for a group but would let Ernalda (in her case, Sedenya) shine.

That book is a really brutal read if you've started her work by reading To Say Nothing of the Dog... it was like being decapitated.

[Akhôrahil]

On 12/30/2019 at 10:36 PM, Joerg said:

That's if you use that POW for fighting. In my idea of an Ernaldan game, the Ernaldan has a sidekick - her husband (or son, or maybe tomboy sister) who does the boring stuff like hitting or shielding people. A good Ernaldan can wield a husband or two like a Humakti can wield a sword, even if you give the actual detail control of that sidekick to a different player than the Ernaldan herself.

By the way, Bless Champion is ridiculously powerful if you have the spells to back it up. If you do want to spend Rune Points for fighting by proxy.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Hteph]

I was thinking of this a bit ago and how to make the Ernaldan a bit more than the Healer on the battlefield (or the one that directs the Elemental). The "wield an husband or two" commet above triggered that memory. I was sketching on a set of actions for an Ernaldan battle field manager, how to improve and support more actively and dipped into the Pathfinders tactical Feats for inspiration. Never got any further than that but I think there may be something in there.

[Minlister]

I would say that the importance/power of Ernalda PC/NPC is directly linked to the form of the play. In "mission-based" scenario or "one-shot", they would decidedly be secondary, but as soon as you play a campaign, especially the clan-based campaign, Ernaldan characters take the fore very quickly. So I am not sure that the problem is "mechanic". And for long-term campaign, it could be good to keep it that way because it would unbalance the game if Ernaldan were also as powerful as other character on the "mission-based episodes" inserted in the campaign. 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Minlister

[HeartQuintessence]

I love this topic. 

[Austin]

I've been reading the Mythras rules on and off recently, and I wonder if their crafting rules (which involve multiple skill rolls based on the number of Task Rounds needed to complete a project) could provide the foundation of a way to set up more complex conflicts between Ernaldan characters. Sort of like a HQG extended contest?

My thought process is basically that in tabletop games, generally speaking more dice rolls = a more dramatic/tense situation. In RQ combat, you're hanging on the results of every roll because each roll matters. So trying to make things like weaving a tapestry or painting a vase feel more dramatic by breaking it down into sub-sections, where a rival crafter could be exceeding your work.

Design Mechanism's Sorandib also has some interesting magic rules for guild work songs which could provide interesting adaptation opportunities. Perhaps the whole priesthood of an Ernalda temple working together on a single project.

I don't think such a sub-system is something you'd want to use for every crafting project, but maybe it's a way to make Ernaldan tasks "feel" more dramatic (or at least more crunchy a la RQ's simulationist tendency) than relying on a single die roll.