So when is the GM guide coming out?

[Soccercalle]

I am also not interested in Encounter Tables. They should definitely be in the regional supplements. It could have been good to have encounter tables for Colymar Land in the GM Screen Pack and for the Jonstown area in the Starter Set. But I rarely if ever use them. If I run a short scenario and wants to add an extra battle to fill a session I may add one or two encounters. But not because a table and a roll of the dice orders me to do it.

[Jason Farrell]

9 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

I am also not interested in Encounter Tables. They should definitely be in the regional supplements. It could have been good to have encounter tables for Colymar Land in the GM Screen Pack and for the Jonstown area in the Starter Set. But I rarely if ever use them. If I run a short scenario and wants to add an extra battle to fill a session I may add one or two encounters. But not because a table and a roll of the dice orders me to do it.

I agree with all of this.

[jajagappa]

11 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

But I rarely if ever use them. If I run a short scenario and wants to add an extra battle to fill a session I may add one or two encounters. But not because a table and a roll of the dice orders me to do it.

And all of that falls very nicely into the category of useful "new GM" tips which as much as anything is what I'd expect in a GM Guide.  Probably very few of us use encounter tables because the roll of the dice said so.  But I also like to spice my games up with encounters/events that neither the PC's nor I expected.  And that freedom to take those different approaches is what's important (and understanding that you have that freedom, and no one is going to say otherwise).

 

[Akhôrahil]

I like me a good encounter table. Not necessarily because I need to roll and use the result (although that can be good too), but because it’s compact, efficient worldbuilding. What kinds of stuff would you meet on a trade road as opposed to trying to cross the Upland Marsh? When they say this place is dangerous, just how dangerous? What’s the density of bandits in this area?

[Shiningbrow]

On 8/4/2022 at 1:59 AM, soltakss said:

However, I think that I am safe to say that HeroQuesting in RQM will not be using the Mongoose HeroQuesting rules.

 

🤯

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure that if you said "Hey, that looks a bit like MRQ on page 82", it'd be instantly scrapped and back to the drawing board... even if it bore very little resemblance to it... such is the hatred.

[Shiningbrow]

On 8/4/2022 at 5:54 AM, ffilz said:

Well, my take has actually been to recommend the classic game from the get go... It's a totally playable game. Not as some obscure initiation, but just plain seek out the game and play it.

But my recommendation doesn't seem to be popular 😞 ...

But I am also totally confident that what's available NOW for the current edition is plenty to play a totally satisfying campaign and if you choose to deep dive enough that heroquesting is important, there's stuff out there. But I feel like heroquesting IS a deep dive. For it to make sense, you need to be doing a deep dive into the mythology. It turns out that for me that's more of a deep dive into Glorantha than really interests me, so heroquesting actually is of little interest to me. And I hold myself up as proof that you CAN enjoy RuneQuest and Glorantha without the level of deep dive that makes people claim Glorantha is an unapproachable setting.

But that opinion doesn't seem to be popular 😞 ...

I don't think it's that much of a deep dive.

And the reputation you have previously mentioned that RQ has, I think, is is because of the vast amounts of diversity that gets discussed... not only in the Dragon Pass area, but also across the rest of the world. If the world was limited to just Dragon Pass, a bit of Prax, and into the northern reaches (Lunar areas), it would look much less intimidating. (granted, there is the history of the area as well....).

And... who really needs to know that??? Certainly, I'd suggest that since most of that isn't relevant to the players, then it's not relevant to the GM either.

You can deep dive- but it's not necessary. Unfortunately, the fans of RQ tend to be fans of the depths as well... (as well as the breadths). And thus, the unfair reputation.

 

(I also think the Starter Set was quite good in that regard - we have Lunars and Sartarites, and a couple of gods... and that was it! Very accessible).

[RandomNumber]

14 hours ago, jajagappa said:

But I also like to spice my games up with encounters/events that neither the PC's nor I expected. 

If my hazy memory is to be trusted, my group had much fun with random encounters as they travelled around the Grantlands on Duke Raus' business and later when exploring Balazar and the Elder Wilds. The adventures wrote themselves.

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Actually, I'm pretty sure that if you said "Hey, that looks a bit like MRQ on page 82", it'd be instantly scrapped and back to the drawing board... even if it bore very little resemblance to it... such is the hatred.

Mongoose did receive some material from Greg, and on the slim chance that they actually incorporated it as intended in the crazy short development cyces Mongoose put out to their authors, such parts may well remain. However, the Second Age had a different flavor of heroquesting with the God Learner RuneQuest Sight that was thought to be a good stand-in for actually getting the deep secrets from identification like the Arkati did. Post-God Learner heroquesters lacked that reductionist ability and had to go the more immersive ways of Arkat or the classical theist and animist questers whose main goal was and is to re-inforce the Web of Arachne Solara. (The Man-of-All otherworldly trials were similar before they too got enthusiastic about RuneQuest Sight).

[svensson]

1. The GM's Guide will be done when it's done, and not a minute before.

2. Proserpaedia /Gods of Glorantha requires a lot of art and layout, they're working on it. This is the next project that'll reach the shelves.

3. Issues with paper supply/printing and the worldwide shipping problems that are only now just starting to get resolved

3a. In re: the paper supply and printing issues, current political tensions between China and the free world [pretty much everyone is united in stopping China from expanding into the South China Sea beyond their legal territorial claims] create artificial slowdowns in every product that has a Chinese business relationship. Even breaking contracts with Chinese business and finding another printer takes time and legal fees.

4. AIUI, the project list goes like this: Proserpaedia/Gods, GM's Guide, Guide to the Lunar Empire, anything else

Something that must be said here... Call of Cthulhu and KAP have large archives of art, hand-waves, and so forth. This greatly simplifies getting their product onto shelves. RQG is hiring new artists and writing new rules and lore... this naturally takes more time.

So right now Jonstown Compendium is carrying the load for RQG. They're doing a GREAT job at it. Most [like 95%] of Jonstown material is for RQG. Admittedly most of it is centered Central Genertela, but that's where most of us adventure anyway.

[smiorgan]

18 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I like me a good encounter table. Not necessarily because I need to roll and use the result (although that can be good too), but because it’s compact, efficient worldbuilding. What kinds of stuff would you meet on a trade road as opposed to trying to cross the Upland Marsh? When they say this place is dangerous, just how dangerous? What’s the density of bandits in this area?

I once ran a Griffin Mountain mini-campaign entirely based on rolling encounters and improvising from there. It was huge fun until the allosaurs ate the whole party (and Gondo's bisons).

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by smiorgan

[ffilz]

5 hours ago, RandomNumber said:

If my hazy memory is to be trusted, my group had much fun with random encounters as they travelled around the Grantlands on Duke Raus' business and later when exploring Balazar and the Elder Wilds. The adventures wrote themselves.

One of the challenges is there are two play styles. In one play style, random encounter (and event) tables are important, providing a lot of the action. In the other play style, random encounters are a distraction.

[smiorgan]

1 hour ago, ffilz said:

One of the challenges is there are two play styles. In one play style, random encounter (and event) tables are important, providing a lot of the action. In the other play style, random encounters are a distraction.

Exactly. For me it's like that. Either random encounters are an important part of an emerging story (in a sandbox play style) or they become a burden. Random encounters on top of an adventure with a tightly knit web of planned encounters become a distraction.

[svensson]

Like everything, there is a balance to be struck in random vs. scripted encounters.

If you ever have a chance try finding a copy of 'The Traveller Adventure' by GDW [1983]. While sci-fi focused, it still shows you an excellent campaign design. It has a very forceful narrative story [corporate skullduggery that crosses over into treason] but also includes long stretches of open play 'sandbox' periods in between episode chains. The writers took the time to include side jobs, patrons, and other free play elements that tie into  the main story in unexpected ways.

In my mind, this has always been my ideal model of a campaign structure and that model has served me well in the three long term games I've been privileged to ref.

[Jason Farrell]

Not to put words in your mouth, but encounter tables does not equal sandbox.  A sandbox simply means that the players have agency to go where they want and engage in the activities they want, rather than adhering to a linear narrative structure preordained by the GM.  That sandbox can be 100% made up of bespoke encounters, though that would admittedly be a lot of work.  The Pathfinder campaign I've been in for several years is a sandbox in which major storylines emerge, and as far as I know, my GM never rolls on encounter tables.  Based on what we're doing and where we're going and what we're interested in, he prepares content for it and improvises as needed.

To put it another way, if you're trying to equate a lack of desire to use encounter tables as a lack of interest in "...side jobs, patrons, and other free play elements that tie into  the main story in unexpected ways", the two are not in any way equivalent. 

At their most basic, encounter tables are literally just roll 46-65 and encounter 1d4+4 Broo, and the like.  That's nothing more than time filler.  Which can be fine, especially if the players are itching for a fight and haven't had one for a while.  Putting a little more personality and background into that encounter isn't super hard, and to me is much more rewarding than taking a random result.  In some of the HQ books in particular, the encounter tables were more like encounter guides; they went into some detail on how and why each group was encountered, and if there were sentient creatures, they provided a bit of motivation and backstory, maybe some infighting, things like that.  Much more useful, imo.

[smiorgan]

1 hour ago, Jason Farrell said:

 In some of the HQ books in particular, the encounter tables were more like encounter guides; they went into some detail on how and why each group was encountered, and if there were sentient creatures, they provided a bit of motivation and backstory, maybe some infighting, things like that.  Much more useful, imo.

Griffin Mountain and Borderlands encounter tables were already like that to some extent.

[RandomNumber]

12 hours ago, ffilz said:

One of the challenges is there are two play styles. In one play style, random encounter (and event) tables are important, providing a lot of the action. In the other play style, random encounters are a distraction.

Which I guess illustrates why those two campaigns are classics - they catered to both styles.  With Borderlands one could follow the scenario path and ignore the random encounters, or use them to create distraction, context and sideplots. Heady days!

Edited August 6, 2022 by RandomNumber

[Akhôrahil]

7 hours ago, smiorgan said:

I once ran a Griffin Mountain mini-campaign entirely based on rolling encounters and improvising from there. It was huge fun until the allosaurs ate the whole party (and Gondo's bisons).

I managed to save us from a random Allosaurus encounter with a one-use Mindblast.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[Jason Farrell]

5 hours ago, smiorgan said:

Griffin Mountain and Borderlands encounter tables were already like that to some extent.

100%.  I just looked at my copies to remind myself and you're right, they're exactly like that.

[Agentorange]

On 8/4/2022 at 1:40 AM, Jason Farrell said:

Encounter tables, imo, are about the least vital thing possible.  All you need is the bestiary and some common sense (don't attack adventurers with crocodiles on a mountain top, etc) and you're good.  You can even use this site to generate the stats if you're so inclined: https://basicroleplaying.net/rqg/adversaries/

 

Could you have some kind of Orlanthi flying crocodiles, perhaps the offspring of a doomed romance between a Storm god and a swamp goddess ? 😆

Unless the crocodiles are draconic in some way..

I'll get my coat.........

[Zit]

On 8/1/2022 at 1:44 PM, Zelmor said:

The lack of a GM book is why I'm not not able to realize my dreams of running the Red Cow Clan campaign.

As previously said, you don't need a GM book to play Runequest. Nobody needs this GM book. It's a "nice to have" for some people, but you've actually already got everything you need to start. Keep your slipcase and give the game a chance.

The few supplements include much more than what their title may suggest. For instance the Weapon book is actually a book about gloranthan technologies and economics, far beyond a "list of weapons".

My understanding of Chaosium policy is that they release high quality products, with deep and rich information and first class art, which takes time, especially with such a rich and coherent World like Glorantha. To compensate this, they encourage the publications on the Jonstown Compendium to support the game and feed the fans with many high quality publications and years of gaming stuff. That's not a flaw, that's a perfectly understandable policy, even if everybody may not agree with it.

[Shiningbrow]

On 8/6/2022 at 5:05 AM, svensson said:

Like everything, there is a balance to be struck in random vs. scripted encounters.

If you ever have a chance try finding a copy of 'The Traveller Adventure' by GDW [1983]. While sci-fi focused, it still shows you an excellent campaign design. It has a very forceful narrative story [corporate skullduggery that crosses over into treason] but also includes long stretches of open play 'sandbox' periods in between episode chains. The writers took the time to include side jobs, patrons, and other free play elements that tie into  the main story in unexpected ways.

In my mind, this has always been my ideal model of a campaign structure and that model has served me well in the three long term games I've been privileged to ref.

This one?

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/126508/CTTTAThe-Traveller-Adventure

[svensson]

59 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

This one?

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/126508/CTTTAThe-Traveller-Adventure

Yep. That's the one.

Mongoose Traveller did an update with their Mongoose Traveller 2.0 rules, and it's great, but the original conception of design get the kudos for innovation.

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

On 8/1/2022 at 12:44 PM, Zelmor said:

This is not a defendable position I'm afraid, that something didn't happen for 40 years so we have to wait more. I will be selling my books it seems. I purchased the box set, source book and the red cow campaign book in the hopes that the company has a release schedule and will be slowly filling the void that is left by not including a GM book in the initial release. Keep in mind Earthdawn's newer editions did include the GM book in the initial release line when they decided to split the core book into two volumes. And that is not a new and hip product line or fantasy world either.

The lack of a GM book is why I'm not not able to realize my dreams of running the Red Cow Clan campaign. I need some guidance as an inexperienced RQ GM who didn't start in the 80s, and no, not in the form of forum posts from old-timers.

Not to derail, but I didn't understand the the need for a started package either, when there is no GM book. I'm not being helped as a new player by that release, and thus skipped it altogether. The reason we don't play RQ in my group is because I as a GM I have no grounds on which to build my work. So we play other things while our interest in Glorantha slowly fades away.

It's a pity you didn't get/ aren't getting the starter set as I think it would help you with the world and system at least a little. But I really understand your disappointment. The line manager decided to go with the great big book of cults instead of the GM's guide in the production line, so maybe that might change your mind?

The only other thing I can say is, sorry you are leaving.

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

On 8/1/2022 at 12:50 PM, Zelmor said:

This strikes the nail on the head. No communication, no release date, not a whole lot in the form of expanding the product line in a meaningful way. In the meantime, look at Mongoose pushing hard on their Traveller edition. You might not like the way things are done there, but as a new Referee, I'm showered with options and products on a regular basis. I bought and kick-started all the JTAS volumes, bought adventures, got the core books. That got me interested in older editions of the game, so I even got the original books and older source books to read for fun. Most importantly, we play that game and people love it.

 

Compare this to the RQ books on my shelf, which have by now accumulated a thick later of dust, with no change is sight. It may not be the legal state, but for all intents and purposes, it is a dead and abandoned game. 

This will keep me from buying into Pendragon also. I wish Cthulhu was my thing, alas it is not.

I can feel the love from many of the other commentators from here. Not.

Losing new players is always bad, and not fulfilling on something that was officially advertised 3 years ago is bad, no matter how you look at it. some older players here think they can keep the game going single handedly, they can't. I went to a big RQ con this weekend and not one of the players in any of the RQ games I played were under 30 [and I'm being very very generous in that] That is not good, not good for the game at all.

[Rick Meints]

On 8/5/2022 at 8:16 AM, Shiningbrow said:

Actually, I'm pretty sure that if you said "Hey, that looks a bit like MRQ on page 82", it'd be instantly scrapped and back to the drawing board... even if it bore very little resemblance to it... such is the hatred.

There is no hatred. Depending on the material, it ranges from agreement to disagreement, or from interesting to not interesting. If we don't use specific swaths of text it is simply because we do not own that copyrighted text, even though we do own the IP.