Heroquesting, how is it done?

[buckwheats]

Hello,

as a newbie in Glorantha I am trying to get a grip on the awesome concept of heroquesting.

What I want to know is, how is it done? On the one hand from the point of view of the hero quester and on the other hand ruleswise (RQG). 

Is it "just" ritualistic reenactment wholly done on the middle plane?

Is it a ritualistic reenactment (or “just” a ritual without the reenactment) that transports the heroquester to the desired hero plane (in person or just the soul, like a dream journey)?

Is it a conscious “planeshift” to the heroplanes by a spell (which spell?) at the climax of a ritual or a portal at the center of holy site/the bottom of a nameless dungeon/the belly of a true dragon?

Is there a connection between the hero planes and the spirit plane? Could a shaman get to the heroplanes via the spirit plane?

Is it all of that or more? Does it vary depending on the Hero Quest? Or is it nothing like that?

Is there a definite (upcoming?) answer? Or does it fall under YGMV (which I could live with)?

Thanks a lot

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by buckwheats

[Akhôrahil]

I'm wary of giving strict answers here, but one thing that is definitely something that exists is the difference between "Otherside" heroquests (where you pass into a hero realm) and "This World" heroquests, where you remain in the regular world (albeit in an enhanced state, which can be identified by people you meet on the road). See for instance the Lawstaff Quest, that begins as a This World heroquest as you travel to Arrowmound, and only there pass into a hero realm. 

While on the other hand, if you reach the Underworld by jumping down a hole (like the one in Delecti's Tower), you're emphatically physically transported there.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Akhôrahil

[kirinyaga]

As I understand it, all of this is true depending of the heroquest and the level of involvement from the heroquester. There is even a difference between heroplane and godplane heroquests.

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, buckwheats said:

Is there a definite (upcoming?) answer? Or does it fall under YGMV (which I could live with)?

There will be more specifics coming in the planned RQG GM Guidebook, although we do not yet have a definitive date for that. 

2 hours ago, buckwheats said:

Is it "just" ritualistic reenactment wholly done on the middle plane?

This would be typical of your cult's holy day worship ceremonies. The priest leads the worship service, some initiates may be in costume for specific roles, some are "chorus", and assuming successful Worship role and magic sacrifice, the God Plane overlaps with the real world. This is where you regain your connection with the deity (i.e. restoring Rune Points, learning new Rune spells).

2 hours ago, buckwheats said:

Is it a ritualistic reenactment (or “just” a ritual without the reenactment) that transports the heroquester to the desired hero plane (in person or just the soul, like a dream journey)?

It could be either a ritual reenactment that traverses part of the mundane world (e.g. travelling from your temple to Stormwalk Mountain to gain a sky bull), or enters into the Godtime. Generally this is in person for cult-based quests (although I've certainly used dream journeys in my games too). For shamans, it is the soul traversing the Spirit world.

2 hours ago, buckwheats said:

Is it a conscious “planeshift” to the heroplanes by a spell (which spell?) at the climax of a ritual or a portal at the center of holy site/the bottom of a nameless dungeon/the belly of a true dragon?

As above, cult ceremonies bring the Godtime to the mundane world within the confines of your sanctified ground (usually temple). For a Heroquest, the ceremony will invoke a particular and known place relevant to the deity in the Godtime. Those on the quest step into that place and from there travel beyond. No special spell is needed - this is the successful use of Worship in the right place at the right time.

For instance, during an Orlanth ceremony, you might find yourself flying up from your temple to one of the Sacred Storm Mountains and from there follow the spiral path to Storm Home. You enter Orlanth's hall, Karulinoran, there where you can drink with Orlanth and his companions. Storm Home has many doors. Stepping out from one leads you to a different "place/time" within the God time (e.g. the Storm Age, the Lesser Darkness). It can also lead to into the Sky or the Underworld. 

Your heroquest provides "guideposts" for you to follow to achieve the quest. Of course, they are not always in the prescribed or expected order (though some steps always are), and other foes may intervene to disrupt the quest.

2 hours ago, buckwheats said:

Is there a connection between the hero planes and the spirit plane? Could a shaman get to the heroplanes via the spirit plane?

Yes. You can think of them all somewhat as coterminous and overlapping. The primary intersection is the Gods War. A shaman can go to a particular place/region in the Spirit Plane (e.g. the Storm King's Castle) and use that to enter the Gods War.

[Eff]

1 hour ago, buckwheats said:

Hello,

as a newbie in Glorantha I am trying to get a grip on the awesome concept of heroquesting.

What I want to know is, how is it done? On the one hand from the point of view of the hero quester and on the other hand ruleswise (RQG). 

Is it "just" ritualistic reenactment wholly done on the middle plane?

Is it a ritualistic reenactment (or “just” a ritual without the reenactment) that transports the heroquester to the desired hero plane (in person or just the soul, like a dream journey)?

Is it a conscious “planeshift” to the heroplanes by a spell (which spell?) at the climax of a ritual or a portal at the center of holy site/the bottom of a nameless dungeon/the belly of a true dragon?

Is there a connection between the hero planes and the spirit plane? Could a shaman get to the heroplanes via the spirit plane?

Is it all of that or more? Does it vary depending on the Hero Quest? Or is it nothing like that?

Is there a definite (upcoming?) answer? Or does it fall under YGMV (which I could live with)?

Thanks a lot

 

Heroquests vary. Some are just people dressed up in costumes performing a ritual play, some begin as ritual plays and then the participants enter the Hero Plane, some begin with the participants entering the Hero Plane and then move from there. In general, this varies depending on how much power you're attempting to draw out of the Otherside- the annual rituals to remake the world at Sacred Time are almost always pure "people in costumes" quests, at least for people on the ground level of a clan. On the other hand, cult initiation begins as a ritual play and then shifts you into the Hero Plane, generally speaking. 

There are connections between all the planes, and a shaman could and in some cases must use the Spirit Plane to enter the Hero Plane. 

Ruleswise there is not yet an official RQG answer. My quick-and-dirty semi-systemless approach is as follows:

1. First, take your myth (or write it up)

2. Divide the myth into a series of "stations". These stations are the basic segments of the myth. 

3. Locate the stations which have obvious tests that the quester must pass, and discard the rest for the moment.

4. Determine what's being tested in each station and assign appropriate character aspects (skills, raw attributes, traits, passions) to the station. Ideally, assign at least two.

5. Depending on your group, you may wish to have the stations that involve combat be run as full combat, or you may wish to have it be a couple of appropriate checks.

6. Take the stations which are not the beginning and not the ending and randomize their order before running the Heroquest. Make sure players are well aware that this is going to happen. 

7. When you run the Heroquest, the players will probably be mostly encountering other questers or minor Otherside entities as the "side characters" of the quest. Use this for descriptive value. 

8. At each station, provide them with a description of what's there, let them decide how best to approach it (and if they come up with a creative solution let them apply it) and give them hints about the station if they're a little stuck.

9. Unless the players catastrophically fail (say, by attacking Orlanth when he's the one who gives the quest or whatever) or are severely wounded, let them continue the quest until it's finished, whether they fail or pass any given check or not. Keep track of where they pass or fail. 

10. The total percentage of passes determines how well the players did. If they passed everything, they got everything they asked for, possibly something extra (they always get something extra if they did something creative). If they failed everything, they get nothing. In between, they get part of what they asked for, and guidelines for this can be based on what exactly they failed.

An example, using the Issaries the Conciliator Heroquest from King of Dragon Pass:

Our valiant questers have gone through the quest, which has nine stations:

1. Talking Lhankor Mhy into coming along
2. Talking Urox into coming along
3. Determining the cause of the Great Darkness

4. Fighting the Chaos thing

5. Meeting the Digging Stick people

6. Meeting the Long-Noses

7. Meeting the Big-Teeth

8. Negotiating peace

9. Negotiating with Paratur. 

I'll say there are 20 total tests in this quest, a number I just made up but which is nice and round for percentage calculations. 

Our questers managed to pass 15 tests out of the 20. That's a 75% success rate, so let's say that they get the majority of what they ask for, but are still missing a major component. The questers undertook this quest to negotiate peace between the Stiff-Bristled Pig Clan and the Hummingbird Clan of the Ditali people, as their feud is threatening to fracture the Ditali confederation by bringing about war between two Trader Princes. 

Their failed tests were mostly in the realm of prideful behavior (the questers weren't content to let Urox fight the Chaos monster and they refused to let Paratur take a treasure from them), so I conclude that while their quest has succeeded in cooling down the feud, there are still prideful people in the leadership of both clans who refuse to make peace. Time for the players to conciliate in person...

[Tindalos]

6 hours ago, buckwheats said:

Hello,

as a newbie in Glorantha I am trying to get a grip on the awesome concept of heroquesting.

The most tricksterish way I can explain it (and therefore best!)

A heroquest ritual is all about tricking the universe into thinking that two events are the same event.

By using ritual dress, the right items, doing it in the right place at the right time, you're saying that you are the entity who did the deed, and thereby getting some of the same reward/punishment for doing it.

The more accurate things are, the more the universe is fooled, and so the closer things are. That dragon costume is at the same time a dragon, and things get hazy between the two because to the God Plane, they are both one thing.

People watching it may just see the costumes, but the more powerful the quest, the more they see the god time influence.

[Austin]

On 11/29/2019 at 5:20 AM, buckwheats said:

What I want to know is, how is it done? On the one hand from the point of view of the hero quester and on the other hand ruleswise (RQG).

Is there a definite (upcoming?) answer? Or does it fall under YGMV (which I could live with)?

Heroquesting's tough to handle at the table, because while there's a great deal written about it, IMHO none of it feels quite solidified because the minds behind RuneQuest & Glorantha never quite settled on how to run it. The above conversation gives a pretty good summary of what's going on "in world" for different sorts of heroquests (This World/Other World, etc.). As Jajagappa noted heroquest rules will be coming sometime for RQG, but don't hold your breath.

It's a bit of a running joke in the community that "heroquest is coming next year!" for the last forty years.

As I recall, some places I've found fruitful for looking at heroquesting are the Guide to Glorantha and the HeroQuest Glorantha core rulebook. The latter and the campaign book The Eleven Lights each have sample "Other World" heroquests--the first written as an example, the second written to be run at a table--which I've found illuminating while trying to figure out how to do an RQ heroquest in my own campaign. Neither of these actually involve RuneQuest or D100 mechanics, so unless you're really interested in getting more Glorantha content, I can't in good conscience strongly recommend picking those titles up.

(That being said, The Coming Storm & The Eleven Lights are both great sourcebooks I really need to get around to reading cover-to-cover. The titular heroquest in Eleven Lights is probably worth the cost of the hardback on its own.)

I haven't yet formulated hard-and-fast rules for heroquests at my table. The core concept behind how I've done heroquests or adjacent adventures has been to allow adventurers to use their Rune Affinities as a skill (instead of for augmenting or for casting Rune magic) while in the Other World. For example, during the last Sacred Time while Argrath performed Orlanth Forms the Storm Tribe in New Pavis, the group's Humakti adventurer guarded the city walls. When the Night Tribe attacked at the end of the heroquest, he rolled using his Death Rune to defend the city against the invading trolls and dehori.

A great resource for heroquests is the PC game King of Dragon Pass. It really was my first introduction to them as part of a game process, and it helps make the idea of "stations" and whatnot more clear. If you're going to make one purchase to learn more, I'd probably recommend that.

As mentioned above, the Book of Heortling Mythology also discusses heroquests (although I don't own a copy) but so too does the Stafford volume Arcane Lore, according to its descriptor. I haven't read that either, but I reckon it should be mentioned for sake of completeness. King of Sartar also has some mythology & heroquesting stuff in it, but from my memory of reading it, I'm not convinced it would be the most helpful resource for a GM running a game.

[Steve]

Also see Simon Phipp's excellent website with tons of resources on heroquesting, including suggested rules - http://www.soltakss.com/indexsoltakss.html

[soltakss]

On 11/29/2019 at 11:20 AM, buckwheats said:

as a newbie in Glorantha I am trying to get a grip on the awesome concept of heroquesting.

As are many experienced Gloranthaphiles.

There are many views and rules about HeroQuesting, mainly because it has never been properly addressed in the rules. Maybe RuneQuest Glorantha's (RQG's) upcoming campaign Book might have some answers.

However, I have developed some ideas about HeroQuesting over the years.

On 11/29/2019 at 11:20 AM, buckwheats said:

What I want to know is, how is it done? On the one hand from the point of view of the hero quester and on the other hand ruleswise (RQG). 

For me, a HeroQuest when you overlay a Myth onto a Situation. 

Ruleswise, I would say that a HeroQuest can be treated as a 1 Point Rune Spell that you can use to start the HeroQuest. So, you might have Orlanth Gains Woad or Zorak Zoran on the Hill of Gold as HeroQuests. it might be that more powerful HeroQuests cost more points, but let's say 1 point for now.

So, you gain a HeroQuest Runespell and cast it, probably using it like a Common magic spell in RQG, so using any of the Runes of the cult.

What this does is it puts the Myth of the HeroQuest over your current situation. In effect, you turn a situation from something where anything could happen into a situation where you know fairly well what might happen. As a Player, treat this like playing in a Scenario that you have already read. You know roughly what is going to happen and what you need to do to get through the various stages, or Stations, of the HeroQuest.

So, from the point of view of the HeroQuestors, what happens?

If you are doing a re-enactment HeroQuest and play the parts of deities, you become the deity. So, you become Orlanth or Zorak Zoran. This means that you can take on the form of that deity and can draw things from that deity. It also means that you are restricted, to a certain extent, by being that deity. You summon the Myth, which means that part of the God Time comes into the normal world, as Myths are what makes up the God Time. So, if you did Sandals of Darkness to steal something important from some trolls, then you become Orlanth, the troll caves become Wonderhome and the Troll Priestess becomes Kyger Litor. You see things both as they were and as they are, at the same time. So, the troll caverns might look like they always do, but overlayed with the God Time views. think of this as having a Virtual Reality headset that superimposes one image on top of what you can see, so you might look around Pompeii and see the ruins as well as virtual Ancient Romans walking around a reconstructed Pompeii. you do the HeroQuest and come out with the Prize at the end, meeting obstacles, talking to people, perhaps fighting people and returning with the Prize.

Ruleswise, what happens is that you might be able to cast magic that you don't have, perhaps at double cost. So, a Storm Bull worshipper on the Storm Bull Kills the Devil HeroQuest might not have the Berserker spell, so might cast it with double the Rune Points, just because Storm Bull uses it in the Myth. You have to follow passions and so on in a certain way, so someone entering Hell might have to make a Brave roll. HeroQuestors might be able to learn new Runemagic on the HeroQuest, in which case they lose POW and gain the spell as normal, but it is immediately available and can be cast using your Cult's Rune Points. If you bring back a Prize, you can either keep it to yourself or share it with your Cult. so, you might gain a rune spell or your cult might gain a new Rune Spell.

On 11/29/2019 at 11:20 AM, buckwheats said:

Is it "just" ritualistic reenactment wholly done on the middle plane?

It can be.

• A Temple Ceremony is like a Nativity Play, a Thanksgiving Reenactment, Walking the Walls in Ulster, or even like a reenactment of the Crucifixion that some people in the Philippines do. People take part in the ceremony to strengthen the myth being reenacted.
• A practice HeroQuest is normally done on the Middle Plane and is often a reenactment.
• An Other Place HeroQuest is done where the HeroQuest was originally done. So, someone might do the Lightbringers' Quest and go down into Hell to bring back someone who has died.
• An Other Side HeroQuest happens on the God Plane and allows the HeroQuestors to establish a God Time Myth about themselves.

On 11/29/2019 at 11:20 AM, buckwheats said:

Is it a ritualistic reenactment (or “just” a ritual without the reenactment) that transports the heroquester to the desired hero plane (in person or just the soul, like a dream journey)?

There are examples where this happens. The Earth King in the Snakepipe Hollow Earth temple does this, as he is physically present while his spirit is away searching for powers.  There was a DreamQuest supplement that did exactly this.

Personally, I prefer HeroQuests where people physically do the HeroQuest.

I also think the Myth brings the God Plane to the current location, so you effective go to the Hero Plane by doing this.

On 11/29/2019 at 11:20 AM, buckwheats said:

Is it a conscious “planeshift” to the heroplanes by a spell (which spell?) at the climax of a ritual or a portal at the center of holy site/the bottom of a nameless dungeon/the belly of a true dragon?

It can be, depends on the HeroQuest.

if you are HeroQuesting to get powers against Daga, you might do the Orlanth and Aroka heroQuest, where Orlanth fights a Dragon and releases Heler from its belly. this could be abstracted by going to a Dragon temple and freeing a prisoner who has Rain Magic, or it could involve fighting a dragon and bringing back someone who has been swallowed by the Dragon. it all depnds on the particular situation.

On 11/29/2019 at 11:20 AM, buckwheats said:

Is there a connection between the hero planes and the spirit plane? Could a shaman get to the heroplanes via the spirit plane?

Yes, as the Spirit Plane touches all the other Planes.

A shaman might travel through the Spirit Plane to an area that overlaps with Hell to gain a powerful Darkness Spirit, or might go to that part of the Spirit Plane that touches the Sky to gain an Angel Spirit, or that part of the Spirit Plane that touches the Crater to gain a Lune. 

Shamans probably HeroQuest in the same way as everyone else, but their Prizes might be different.

On 11/29/2019 at 11:20 AM, buckwheats said:

Is it all of that or more? Does it vary depending on the Hero Quest? Or is it nothing like that?

Yes.

On 11/29/2019 at 11:20 AM, buckwheats said:

Is there a definite (upcoming?) answer?

I dearly hope so, but don't know what is in the book that details the HeroQuetsing Rules.

On 11/29/2019 at 11:20 AM, buckwheats said:

Or does it fall under YGMV (which I could live with)?

At the moment, it is definitely YGMV, which is no bad thing, really.

On 11/29/2019 at 11:50 AM, Akhôrahil said:

I'm wary of giving strict answers here

Every answer regarding HeroQuesting is an interpretation of a vague principle, so all answers are good.

On 11/29/2019 at 11:50 AM, Akhôrahil said:

but one thing that is definitely something that exists is the difference between "Otherside" heroquests (where you pass into a hero realm) and "This World" heroquests, where you remain in the regular world (albeit in an enhanced state, which can be identified by people you meet on the road). See for instance the Lawstaff Quest, that begins as a This World heroquest as you travel to Arrowmound, and only there pass into a hero realm. 

Yes. I also use Other Place and Other Side HeroQuests as being different, but that is more about how I see HeroQuesting.

On 11/29/2019 at 11:50 AM, Akhôrahil said:

While on the other hand, if you reach the Underworld by jumping down a hole (like the one in Delecti's Tower), you're emphatically physically transported there.

Yes, you are. There is a Doorway in the Sazdorf Caverns that leads to Hell, jumping down Hell Crack gets to Hell, sailing down Magasta's pool gets to Hell, swimming through the Tarpit on the Shadow Plateau gets to Hell, performing the Six Stones Ritual at the Six Stones transports you to the Six Stones in Hell,  there are many different ways of getting to Hell.

On 11/29/2019 at 1:34 PM, kirinyaga said:

As I understand it, all of this is true depending of the heroquest and the level of involvement from the heroquester. There is even a difference between heroplane and godplane heroquests.

That's how I play it, but inherently they are the same HeroQuest, just performed in different places.

On 11/29/2019 at 1:54 PM, Eff said:

I'll say there are 20 total tests in this quest, a number I just made up but which is nice and round for percentage calculations. 

Our questers managed to pass 15 tests out of the 20. That's a 75% success rate, so let's say that they get the majority of what they ask for, but are still missing a major component. The questers undertook this quest to negotiate peace between the Stiff-Bristled Pig Clan and the Hummingbird Clan of the Ditali people, as their feud is threatening to fracture the Ditali confederation by bringing about war between two Trader Princes. 

Their failed tests were mostly in the realm of prideful behavior (the questers weren't content to let Urox fight the Chaos monster and they refused to let Paratur take a treasure from them), so I conclude that while their quest has succeeded in cooling down the feud, there are still prideful people in the leadership of both clans who refuse to make peace. Time for the players to conciliate in person...

It all depends on what they are doing and how the HeroQuest works. They might just get a Consequence of some kind or the failed portion. So, your example is a good one, as the HeroQuest succeeded, as the feud is cooled down, but some people still refuse peace.

This is the "yes but" approach.

On 11/29/2019 at 6:13 PM, Tindalos said:

The most tricksterish way I can explain it (and therefore best!)

A heroquest ritual is all about tricking the universe into thinking that two events are the same event.

That's an interesting way of looking at it, thanks.

On 11/29/2019 at 6:13 PM, Tindalos said:

By using ritual dress, the right items, doing it in the right place at the right time, you're saying that you are the entity who did the deed, and thereby getting some of the same reward/punishment for doing it.

The more accurate things are, the more the universe is fooled, and so the closer things are. That dragon costume is at the same time a dragon, and things get hazy between the two because to the God Plane, they are both one thing.

People watching it may just see the costumes, but the more powerful the quest, the more they see the god time influence.

Yes. this also means that someone in the HeroQuest could be a ringer, who has slipped into the HeroQuest. Some, some Storm bull Initiates reenact Storm Bull Slays the Devil and find that a powerful Broo HeroQuestor has somehow replaced the spindly little broo they found in the Marsh, bursting out and killing them all. When Sheng Seleris ruled Dara Happa, the Red Emperor did this himself by dressing up in fish scales and ambushing the nephews of Sheng Seleris who were performing the Ten Tests, or however many there were back then, killing them all. 

19 hours ago, Crel said:

Heroquesting's tough to handle at the table, because while there's a great deal written about it, IMHO none of it feels quite solidified because the minds behind RuneQuest & Glorantha never quite settled on how to run it. The above conversation gives a pretty good summary of what's going on "in world" for different sorts of heroquests (This World/Other World, etc.). As Jajagappa noted heroquest rules will be coming sometime for RQG, but don't hold your breath.

I've been running HeroQuests at the table for many, many years, with great success. you just have to have a rules framework that works for you. 

19 hours ago, Crel said:

As mentioned above, the Book of Heortling Mythology also discusses heroquests (although I don't own a copy) but so too does the Stafford volume Arcane Lore, according to its descriptor. I haven't read that either, but I reckon it should be mentioned for sake of completeness. King of Sartar also has some mythology & heroquesting stuff in it, but from my memory of reading it, I'm not convinced it would be the most helpful resource for a GM running a game.

The Book of Heortling Mythology mentions HeroQuests, but they are normally in the form of myths, as I recall, but am probably wrong.

Arcane Lore is a very mixed bag of different HeroQuesting rules sets that, frankly, contradict each other. it is interesting from a HeroQuesting Lore point of view, but I definitely wouldn't recommend it as somewhere that someone new to HeroQuesting should look for rules, ideas perhaps but not rules.

4 hours ago, Steve said:

Also see Simon Phipp's excellent website with tons of resources on heroquesting, including suggested rules - http://www.soltakss.com/indexsoltakss.html

Thank's for the mention.

[Steve]

12 hours ago, soltakss said:

There are many views and rules about HeroQuesting, mainly because it has never been properly addressed in the rules. Maybe RuneQuest Glorantha's (RQG's) upcoming campaign Book might have some answers.

Very minor pedantic correction - it's the GM Sourcebook that will have the heroquesting rules, not the Campaign book. 

[Akhôrahil]

The OP question is really good, though. It can probably be best analyzed in two parts:

1) What do the questers experience?
2) What do other observers see happening to the questers?

For instance, in the Stealing the Giant's Cattle heroquest, the questers first make a perfectly mundane trip to the starting point for the quest. There they (from their perspective) enter the Otherside (in this case, a heroworld), and they travel back to Red Cow Fort within the Otherside, where they perform the quest and eventually emerge. But what do other people see? Would they see the questers travelling in the world, with their hero glow on? Or do they disappear from the regular world so that onlookers can't see them, and then they re-emerge into the regular world after completing the quest (or being booted from it)?

This line of thought can also be applied to rituals. When you fly to Kero Fin on One Day, this supposedly happens on an Otherside (because it seems unlikely that an onlooker in the mundane world would see tens of thousands of Orlanthi streak through the sky at intense speeds), but what happens to their bodies? Are they gone? Are the bodies unconscious while the spirit is away on a trip? Or does everyone appear to be doing rituals and feasting, while they themselves experience Orlanth's Hall rather than their clan hall (this would probably be my preferred interpretation)?

Edited December 2, 2019 by Akhôrahil

[Sumath]

56 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

But what do other people see? Would they see the questers travelling in the word, wit their hero glow on? Or do they disappear from the regular world so that onlookers can't see them, and then they re-emerge into the regular world after completing the quest (or being booted from it)?

There's an illustration in the RQG rulebook (don't remember the page, but it's close to the beginning) that kind of answers this - a crowd of people observe their kin enacting a ritual (possibly a heroquest), and the questors are shown as transforming into the god-form of those they are representing.

I'd imagine it would be quite a trippy experience whether you were an observer or a participant, and for a Heroquest that I've written (based on Ernalda Feeds the Tribe as written in KoDP) I've listed a bunch of perceptual changes that occur when one enters the God Time. 

[soltakss]

5 hours ago, Steve said:

Very minor pedantic correction - it's the GM Sourcebook that will have the heroquesting rules, not the Campaign book. 

Thanks, they have mentioned it for both, but it was originally in the GM Sourcebook.

Also, pedantic corrections are what we do best.

[Macronaut]

Hi all -- is a heroquest something that adventures intentionally enter into with a specific goal, or might it also come upon them when they accidentally engage in actions that mirror an existing myth?  To take an example from Greek mythology, if adventurers came upon a giant snake and one slew it with arrows, might that not trigger some kind of resonance with the myth of Apollo slaying Python, and perhaps offer opportunities to continue playing out the similarities (either intentionally or accidentally) for a Prize?   

[Nick Brooke]

4 hours ago, Macronaut said:

Hi all -- is a heroquest something that adventurers intentionally enter into with a specific goal, or might it also come upon them when they accidentally engage in actions that mirror an existing myth?

Accidental heroquests are the best heroquests, in my opinion. (See Black Spear for examples). Your own example is dead good: always keep an eye out for numinous coincidences when you’re playing RuneQuest, it’ll freak out the other players.

[JRE]

I would say that most Gloranthans would try to avoid involuntary heroplane identification, and even have some rituals to avoid assuming improperly god or hero aspects. However the Lunar elite and now Argrath and his companions (following Arkat's playbook) try to exploit this, looking for opportunities to reinforce the myths they want, and perverting those of their enemies. 

If you look into a Heroplane, the Heroplane looks back into you. If you play up an event and make it heroic, an opposing hero may choose / be forced to intervene. That does not mean that Jar-Eel will appear as the opponent (unless you are an important enemy of the Empire), but you could get more than you expected, as in the Broo / Storm Bull example above. That also allows to present potential opponents, or recurring villains, as death in the hero plane means a penalty but not usually an actual death unless that is the point of the heroquest. It may even be a bonus if that is the myth you are reenacting...

My own pet theory about King of Sartar is that the excess magical abuse of the Hero Wars end up breaking the Heroplane/Mundane connection, but that is many years in the future.

[Cassius]

Could the ceremonies that take place during Sacred Time at clan or tribe level be considered as "This World" Heroquests ?

[JRE]

Not could, but should. Unless you lack critical people, and then the next year will be a tough one. One of the drivers for joining tribes or even tribe confederations (cities and countries in other parts of Glorantha) is that you can more realiably access that magic, and it is easier to tackle more complex reenactments.

A clan on its own may be able to reenact a few myths, and maybe have enough prominent people to go for one. So they have to choose a focus, such as war, bless crops or bless animals (echoes of King of Dragon Pass). In a tribe you may have a ritual in the clan, but you also join and benefit fom the tribal one(s). That piles up, if you add confederation and even country, and why wrecking that magic is a basic tactic of the Empire.

All of that assuming the ritual succeeds. Poor magic, human error or external interference (which may just be your envious neighbors) can spoil the Sacred Time and that hurts the magic the whole year. That also makes the rituals connect. If you run the arming of Orlanth to prepare the clan for war, your intended enemies may be forced to appear in the ritual as enemies. Or you may want peace but find you are cast as enemies by others.

[Brian Duguid]

Since the original posts in this thread, @soltakss has published Secrets of HeroQuesting on the Jonstown Compendium. It's far and away the most extensive treatment of the subject available while we wait for the Gamemaster's Sourcebook. It doesn't reflect the forthcoming Heroquesting rules, but still has lots of detail relevant to many of the questions discussed above.

[Runeblogger]

2 hours ago, Brian Duguid said:

Since the original posts in this thread, @soltakss has published Secrets of HeroQuesting on the Jonstown Compendium. It's far and away the most extensive treatment of the subject available while we wait for the Gamemaster's Sourcebook. It doesn't reflect the forthcoming Heroquesting rules, but still has lots of detail relevant to many of the questions discussed above.

Exactly, and Six Seasons in Sartar also includes how to run heroquests and an initiation HeroQuest. 👈👌

[soltakss]

On 2/4/2022 at 2:58 AM, Macronaut said:

Hi all -- is a heroquest something that adventures intentionally enter into with a specific goal, or might it also come upon them when they accidentally engage in actions that mirror an existing myth? 

Absolutely, yes, this can happen.

On 2/4/2022 at 2:58 AM, Macronaut said:

To take an example from Greek mythology, if adventurers came upon a giant snake and one slew it with arrows, might that not trigger some kind of resonance with the myth of Apollo slaying Python, and perhaps offer opportunities to continue playing out the similarities (either intentionally or accidentally) for a Prize?   

Yes, that is a good example. The Adventurers would be sucked into a HeroQuest, perhaps without knowing. They would have encounters with beings they might recognise, or with normal people taking on that part, perhaps also unknowingly.

On 2/4/2022 at 9:41 AM, Cassius said:

Could the ceremonies that take place during Sacred Time at clan or tribe level be considered as "This World" Heroquests ?

Yes, they are This World HeroQuests.

However, the benefits are not the ones you get out of normal HeroQuests. Instead, they reinforce the myths and keep the fabric of the world in place.

18 hours ago, Brian Duguid said:

Since the original posts in this thread, @soltakss has published Secrets of HeroQuesting on the Jonstown Compendium. It's far and away the most extensive treatment of the subject available while we wait for the Gamemaster's Sourcebook. It doesn't reflect the forthcoming Heroquesting rules, but still has lots of detail relevant to many of the questions discussed above.

Many thanks for the mention.

Secrets of HeroQuesting is available as a PDF and as a POD, with a bundled price for both. If you have bought the PDF previously and then buy the POD, email me, or send me a PM, and I'll send you a $2 voucher on DTRPG.

It is 27 away from Gold Seller, by the way, so if people who are interested in HeroQuesting buy a copy then we might push it to Gold.

 

[Shiningbrow]

Could someone initiate a HQ spontaneously if they happen to notice some middle world events seem to coincide? E.g., a ZZ troll (band?) notices a Sun Domer (unit) get its butt kicker by some Storm worshipper(s) on a hill somewhere. Would there be a way for them to force a HQ upon the scene, so they could get some extra benefits from attacking them?

[Nick Brooke]

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Could someone initiate a HQ spontaneously if they happen to notice some middle world events seem to coincide? E.g., a ZZ troll (band?) notices a Sun Domer (unit) get its butt kicker by some Storm worshipper(s) on a hill somewhere. Would there be a way for them to force a HQ upon the scene, so they could get some extra benefits from attacking them?

Yes, of course. Always keep an eye open for opportunities to re-enact your myths in the mundane world, whether you're a player or a GM. 

[JRE]

Even if it remains a mundane event, Uz attacking Yelmalians on a hill, after they have been beaten and robbed by Orlanthi should get big skill bonuses (if both sides are aware of the mythic connection) as the Yelmalians are mythically bound to lose, and the Uz are bound to let them live.

If the connection is done, I would expect the Yelmalians to lose Rune points (temporarily if they are PCs) and the Uz get one use rune points for light magic. But they get to live, so it may be the Yelmalians who initiate the mythic connection. Better crippled than eaten.

Edited February 7, 2022 by JRE

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

Carefully.