Ask Jeff! Glorantha Lore questions

[Jeff]

This thread is exactly what it says - ask me a Glorantha Lore question, and if I find it interesting, I'll answer it. If not, I'll either ignore it or explain why I don't find it interesting or useful to answer.

[M Helsdon]

What can you tell us, Jeff, about Arkat's defeat of the Crimson Bat in the First Age?

I believe this occurred in Ralios? Possibly after Harmest brought him back from the Underworld?

[Probably not a question of wide interest....]

Edited April 20, 2020 by M Helsdon

[metcalph]

Any word on Bija?

 

[Jeff]

17 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

What can you tell us, Jeff, about Arkat's defeat of the Crimson Bat in the First Age?

I believe this occurred in Ralios? Possibly after Harmest brought him back from the Underworld?

[Probably not a question of wide interest....]

The Crimson Bat roamed the world as a horrific demon in the late First Age. It devoured towns and cities without warning. However, Arkat defeated it and banished it from the mundane plane. I believe that happened in the later campaigns as Arkat neared Dorasor itself.

[M Helsdon]

2 minutes ago, Jeff said:

The Crimson Bat roamed the world as a horrific demon in the late First Age. It devoured towns and cities without warning. However, Arkat defeated it and banished it from the mundane plane. I believe that happened in the later campaigns as Arkat neared Dorasor itself.

Thank you.

[Nick Brooke]

Hi, Jeff: there's been some confusion recently about the dates of the Second Battle of Moonbroth and Argrath's first (failed) invasion of Dragon Pass at the head of the Barbarian Horde. Going by RQG as written, or reading the Glorantha Sourcebook fairly uncritically, a lot of events seem to happen very close together in early 1625. But MOB has shared a detailed timeline placing the resurrection of Jaldon Toothmaker, the Second Battle of Moonbroth and the Siege of Pavis all in late 1624. What dates would you use in your own campaigns? And is there a reason the Second Battle of Moonbroth is missing from the adventurers' previous history tables?

[GianniVacca]

From https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/glorantha-2/intro-mythos/:

Quote

The nomads of Pent are on the move, pressing westwards to take the fields of peaceful farmers and, eastwards, threatening the ancient plains of the Kingdom of Ignorance. Also, a prophet appeared in the Kingdom, saying that he fasted in the desert for 3 years, and has discovered a way to raise the ancient lands of Kralorela flooded during the First Age. It requires that all kingdoms give up war forever.

Who is the fasting prophet? Which Kingdom has he appeared in? Ignorance?

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, Nick Brooke said:

Hi, Jeff: there's been some confusion recently about the dates of the Second Battle of Moonbroth and Argrath's first (failed) invasion of Dragon Pass at the head of the Barbarian Horde. Going by RQG as written, or reading the Glorantha Sourcebook fairly uncritically, a lot of events seem to happen very close together in early 1625. But MOB has shared a detailed timeline placing the resurrection of Jaldon Toothmaker, the Second Battle of Moonbroth and the Siege of Pavis all in late 1624. What dates would you use in your own campaigns? And is there a reason the Second Battle of Moonbroth is missing from the adventurers' previous history tables?

The Battle of Pennel Ford was in Fire Season of 1624. Argrath went to Jaldon's Rest in late Dark Season or early Storm Season 1624, raised Jaldon and mustered an army. He defeated the Lunar Army at Moonbroth in early Storm Season (about 40 km away) and then about two weeks later was outside of New Pavis. The city fell after a short siege when Argrath used magic to chew through the walls near the Old Gate.

Here's how it took place in the Chaosium House Campaign:

Argrath mustered several thousand Praxians from all tribes, Sartarites, and even Wolf Pirates to summon Jaldon Goldentooth.
He did this on the border of Sartar and Prax, at a place called Jaldon’s Rest.
As Argrath promised, the ancient hero Jaldon Goldtooth appeared. Jaldon Goldtooth was a hero who had lived in times so old that no one remembered when it was. He wore tattoos which no one could look at. His only armor was a helm, greaves, and gauntlets. No one ever saw anything like his three‑bladed sword, his oddly‑shaped throwing discs, or his lance which leapt out to reach its foe. His steed was not like any of the six great steeds of Prax, nor like any of the 21 lesser steeds. He said words that no one knew. All Praxian prophecies agreed that when Jaldon appeared, all of them would benefit to follow him. They did.
Jaldon was cursed to not be able to enter sacred Prax, but Argrath showed him how to overcome that curse if he would serve the White Bull. And so he did and the Praxians rode with Argrath.
Outside the oasis of Moonbroth, the Lunar Army tried to stop the Whitebull, but the Lunar Antelope Lancers were chased from the field. Some fled, but most were killed. The Oasis, with its geyser and hot springs, was a sacred place to the Lunars, but now claimed by Argrath. Some Praxians took Lunar slaves, others feasted upon their wine and claimed their goods.
Two weeks later - the Army of the White Bull was outside the walls of New Pavis.

 

 

6:28

 

[Gallowglass]

The Kingdom of War has a huge army, appropriately. The Guide says it’s about 100,000 strong in 1621. Who are the people who actually make up this army? I get the impression that a lot of them are mercenaries from various places around Fronela. But what about the rest? Who are the “original Kingdom of War guys?”

[Nick Brooke]

If I may follow up - I understand one of your RuneQuest groups recently accompanied Argrath on that doomed first invasion of Dragon Pass in the summer of 1625, which was thwarted by Lunar magic. Are there any details you can share (beyond what's in the Glorantha Sourcebook and RQG core) about the location and events of that battle? In particular, Argrath's White Bull army appears to have been magically outgunned by the Lunars - what did they use against him, how well did it work, and what lessons (if any) did he draw from this crushing defeat?

[Jeff]

22 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

If I may follow up - I understand one of your RuneQuest groups recently accompanied Argrath on that doomed first invasion of Dragon Pass in the summer of 1625, which was thwarted by Lunar magic. Are there any details you can share (beyond what's in the Glorantha Sourcebook and RQG core) about the location and events of that battle? In particular, Argrath's White Bull army appears to have been magically outgunned by the Lunars - what did they use against him, how well did it work, and what lessons (if any) did he draw from this crushing defeat?

Argrath's army was largely Praxians from the Sable, Bison, and High Llama tribes. While camped near Hender's Ruins the Praxians got ambushed with a double whammy of the Chaos Terror Cwim and the long-range magic of the Crater Makers, Major Class, and Minor Class of the Lunar College of Magic. The Lunars themselves were actually in the Dundealos Valley some 40 km away, sending a Meteor Swarm and spirits. The Praxians were thoroughly routed.

Argrath had never seen anything like that, not even at the Battle of Pennel Ford. The ability for the Lunars to perform such long-range magics with massive effects made a tremendous impression on him. A season later, he summoned a True Dragon to devour the New Lunar Temple and began teaching the first disciples of what became his Magical Union.

Some years later, Lunar scholars claimed that the whole thing was a fiendish feint by Argrath to draw off the Lunar magic so that they would be largely magically defenceless against the Dragon.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Jeff

[Joerg]

7 hours ago, Jeff said:

The Crimson Bat roamed the world as a horrific demon in the late First Age. It devoured towns and cities without warning. However, Arkat defeated it and banished it from the mundane plane. I believe that happened in the later campaigns as Arkat neared Dorasor itself.

Was the Crimson Bat already crimson at that time, or did it receive that coloration after Arkat had skinned it? I seem to recall it being named for a slightly different color earlier. Was it already chaotic, or was it a regular Rinliddi Death and Darkness demon?

If that fight happened near Dorastor, the skin may well have been turned into magical drums or similar weapons of mass destruction.

[dumuzid]

Who were the Gold Wheel Dancers?

[Runeblogger]

Is Gonn Orta really a piece of Genert?

[Dan Z]

Who or what is Harshax?  Not that I'm planning a game taking place in that time period but it's been bugging me for way too long.

[Jeff]

10 hours ago, dumuzid said:

Who were the Gold Wheel Dancers?

That is an interesting question and of some relevance. 

The Gold Wheel Dancers are examples of the sorts of entities that existed in the God Time that failed to survive long past the Dawn. They were entities of the Golden Age, when everything fit within a divine order and at the Dawn they were a tangible reminder of that age. They danced through the Darkness, like reflections of the Sun on a dewdrop. Their presence in Dragon Pass was necessary for the foundation of the Unity Council. But with the passage of Time the Golden Age receded further and further away.  In the Second Council, they were rarely present. Perhaps there was a spirit or single individual which survived or appeared for the votes, but there is no record of them with the Broken Council and beyond.

[Snugz]

Why is Pithdaros important in the Hero Wars? Nolos and Pasos clearly play their parts with it in the Quinpolic League against Seshnela, but Pithdaros seems to get short shrift in mentions/plotlines. Maybe partly as they weren't visited by Dormal (right?) so their naval participation is unremarkable, although they are known as good magicians (and probably have some exotic Horali orders making them good on the battlefield on land). Is Pithdaros just weak (e.g. politically/economically)-- or good at shifting allegiance/playing neutral when needed? Or good at living up to its reputation as (paraphrasing) always being too late to the party? We know the Red Gold Knife comes from Pithdaros and a few things related to the Harreksaga/Mularik Ironeye, at least.

[M Helsdon]

What name is Yelorna known by in Ralios please, before the introduction of the Sun Dome temple in Karia by the EWF? Was she known to the Enerali before the elves introduced her as The Light in Darkness? 

I have a pet speculation that she was known to the Vustri...

[This is very obscure, and I admit to a fascination in the variation of names given to the gods.]

[10baseT]

Hi Jeff, I saw your post yesterday on the FB Runequest page on the terms for rulers in general, https://www.facebook.com/groups/RuneQuest/. With 'Chiefs' and 'Thanes' , would those also hold to the Aeolian leaders in say Vizel, Mt. Passant and Duchamp for example, given their integration of Orlanthi culture? From previous post, it sounds like Talar can be exchanged for chief. Following that, would Aeolian aristocracy be referred to as thanes if they were of martial leanings? Looking at the two cultures, Aeolian and Orlanthi, I dont think someone from the outside would be able to tell the difference if just looking at them in general. But maybe it's the little things, like words and titles (and of course the Invisible God.)

Edited April 21, 2020 by 10baseT

[Tindalos]

On the Magical Geography map on page 297 in the guide, there appears to be two of the Yolp Mountains counting as sacred mountains. The southernmost and greater of the two is Mount Matu, but the northern one (between Mount Yolp/Arketos and Mount Gestinus) doesn't appear to have a name on any map.

I don't suppose you'd be able to share the peak's name, and what makes it sacred?

[Dissolv]

Okay, I'll bite!

Why is it important that some bits of Glorantha lore be kept secret from the players?  (Like the God Learner secret, and whatever the others are.)

[Tindalos]

Oh, another one occurs to me.

In the past there was a position within the Malkioni philosophies known as a Reader, such as is mentioned here.

The only mention of them I've been able to find since the guide is the mention of Baldrus, Black Reader of Belstos in the guide, and that may be just using the term in a different way.

Are Readers still a part of the Malkioni philosophies?

[Jeff]

6 hours ago, Dissolv said:

Okay, I'll bite!

Why is it important that some bits of Glorantha lore be kept secret from the players?  (Like the God Learner secret, and whatever the others are.)

Because once you have answered a secret, it is no longer mysterious. And all settings should have mysteries.

[Puckohue]

What is The Long Way Home when a Grazelander prophet talks about it?

Guide to Glorantha, page 177.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Puckohue

[Jag]

On 4/20/2020 at 6:28 PM, Jeff said:

Argrath's army was largely Praxians from the Sable, Bison, and High Llama tribes. While camped near Hender's Ruins the Praxians got ambushed with a double whammy of the Chaos Terror Cwim and the long-range magic of the Crater Makers, Major Class, and Minor Class of the Lunar College of Magic. The Lunars themselves were actually in the Dundealos Valley some 40 km away, sending a Meteor Swarm and spirits. The Praxians were thoroughly routed.

Argrath had never seen anything like that, not even at the Battle of Pennel Ford. The ability for the Lunars to perform such long-range magics with massive effects made a tremendous impression on him. A season later, he summoned a True Dragon to devour the New Lunar Temple and began teaching the first disciples of what became his Magical Union.

Some years later, Lunar scholars claimed that the whole thing was a fiendish feint by Argrath to draw off the Lunar magic so that they would be largely magically defenceless against the Dragon.

Sorry, wasn't Kallyr the one who summoned the true dragon?