What is missing in RQG

[Pheres]

Hello all of you. I am playing/reading RQG since the beginning, but never played RQ before.

As an old new player i have some remarks on what stuff is missing in RQG in order to live a more immersive playing experience.

I think that we need to know more about Glorantha.  Actual books, with the basic rules book, the bestiary and the Glorantha Sourcebook explain a lot of things in this universe and allow a good basic playing experience.

But we can found a lot of information about mythic and history of the world and very few things about mundane things (how are living standard peoples, what are they feeling, etc...). In other games, based on novels or movies, we generally know this things by reading or watching the novel/movie, but in Glorantha, there is not such thing. And for me are missing materials that can make the decor more real!

We will soon (in 2021, at last), have materials that's can help (Cults books, Game Master stuff, etc...), but can we hope a book/novel/movie (i am joking with the movie, it's a very expensive "material")?

But, perhaps, there are materials that i don't know. For exemple, is "Prince of Sartar" a good material for this, and is there other materials printed for HQ or previous version of RQG that done the job?

 

[Sid Vicarious]

About 18 months ago a video game was announced, but there has been bugger all about it since. The devs, Black Shamrock,  website is just as tight lipped. 

[Jeff]

20 minutes ago, Sid Vicarious said:

About 18 months ago a video game was announced, but there has been bugger all about it since. The devs, Black Shamrock,  website is just as tight lipped. 

Work continues on it (I should know as I have weekly meetings with status reports from the team). But we are making no announcements until we are authorised to do so.

[Austin]

6 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Work continues on it (I should know as I have weekly meetings with status reports from the team). But we are making no announcements until we are authorised to do so.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm happy hearing that it exists, and is still being worked on. That's good news to hear.

45 minutes ago, Pheres said:

In other games, based on novels or movies, we generally know this things by reading or watching the novel/movie, but in Glorantha, there is not such thing.

Something like Forgotten Realms' Drizzt novels, or Warhammer 40K's Black Library would be really cool to read. The main fiction I'm aware of is the Griselda stories from the 80's (although I think there's other stuff out there?).

The Rough Guide to Glamour has some short stories/fictive elements too, which are pretty good. Much more accessible than things like King of Sartar.

The Queen's Heir by John Boyle began life as a Glorantha novel, although the setting was moved to a Fantasy Earth Bronze Age instead. I don't know the story behind that. I haven't gotten to it in my reading stack, but if you're looking for a novel which already exists to point your players to, maybe that's a place to start.

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, Pheres said:

I think that we need to know more about Glorantha.  Actual books, with the basic rules book, the bestiary and the Glorantha Sourcebook explain a lot of things in this universe and allow a good basic playing experience.

I think the "original" issue is Glorantha is too large (not in size but in civilization)

Because there is West, some people want west knowledge / scenario

Because there is Kralorela, some people want kralorelan knowldege /scenario

Because there is Vormain, Pamaltela, blablablalba....

 

And some needs scenario, some (like me) needs culture and cults details (stats and colors), some more weapons when others need more detailled rules, etc...

I m pretty sure if glorantha were created with only 2-3 civilizations (lunar / sartar + esrolia / a third party ) and wildness (prax / pent / hunshen) and less magic (rune, spirit, sorcery, mysticism, draconic, ... too much) no one ask for more cults/regions/....

Glorantha is richer than that, and it is probably her best charasteristic too.

But too rich for any company to fit all concerns and wishs from their customers.

On my side, I have changed my intersest a year ago from illumination + sorcery to more detailed cults + draconic magic. So even one person can have manifold interests so manyfold frustrations (and maybe with gagog great pleasure) I cannot imagine how many domains are desired by gloranthophiles

 

Saying that... can chaosium focus its effort to cults, culture and draconic magic ? parce que je le vaux bien 😅

[Pheres]

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I think the "original" issue is Glorantha is too large (not in size but in civilization)

Because there is West, some people want west knowledge / scenario

Because there is Kralorela, some people want kralorelan knowldege /scenario

Because there is Vormain, Pamaltela, blablablalba....

I aggree with that, but why not continue the RQG idea of focusing on some world area and publish cultural material in Sartar/Dragon Pass first and then materials where RQG will go?

[Nick Brooke]

5 hours ago, Pheres said:

But, perhaps, there are materials that i don't know. For exemple, is "Prince of Sartar" a good material for this, and is there other materials printed for HQ or previous version of RQG that done the job?

I like John Hughes' Gloranthan fiction, set in the Far Place of northern Sartar. Here's a free ebook: https://myth-o-logic.org/glorantha/to-walk-in-far-places/

And I like Oliver Dickinson's Gloranthan fiction, set in the back alleys of New Pavis. Here's a $5 ebook: https://www.chaosium.com/the-complete-griselda-pdf/

And I wrote some Gloranthan folktales myself, which you might like (even if they aren't novels or short stories). Here's my website: http://etyries.albionsoft.com/etyries.com/folktale/index-2.html

Cheers, Nick

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, Pheres said:

But, perhaps, there are materials that i don't know.

There were a lot of fan-written myths, tales, and stories in the 90's many of which added greatly to the feel of the world. Not necessarily canonical, and some are likely dated or veered off on their own tangents, but also a lot of interesting visions of Glorantha.

You can find many of them compiled here: https://oliverbernuetz.neocities.org/mything/Mything links.pdf 

And more listed here: https://oliverbernuetz.neocities.org/stories.html 

6 hours ago, Pheres said:

For exemple, is "Prince of Sartar" a good material for this, and is there other materials printed for HQ or previous version of RQG that done the job?

Yes, Prince of Sartar is good for this, too, and covers a few perspectives (Sartar, Lunar, Esrolian, Pavis).

The sequence of HQG books:  Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes, Sartar Companion, and Pavis: Gateway to Adventure all offer some further insights.  Also the two Red Cow books: Coming Storm (describing Cinsina tribe) and Eleven Lights (a campaign amidst the Cinsina) gives a lot of color and insight into these clans.

6 hours ago, Pheres said:

but can we hope a book/novel/movie

Those are really very different from a writing standpoint and not likely to be on the immediate horizon.  However, there is work on a Sartar Homeland book which should provide a lot more insight into that culture.

[Bill the barbarian]

7 hours ago, Pheres said:

I think that we need to know more about Glorantha.  

 

Let me saying this very clearly...

NO YOU DO NOT! REALLY!

I think that gives the gist of my argument.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Bill the barbarian

[Bill the barbarian]

Sorry for the facetious post, I never recommend that a new comer should know more about Glorantha, I feel that wold be a sure way to ruin the discovery. An old new comer, well that is more difficult As an old hand I am eagerly awaiting the completion of the entire rules set. For this to occur I aver we will need the GM guide and the GaGoG (both promised).

Still, that being said, less is more! Remove the silk shade that obscures the depth and breadth of Gloranthan Goodness at a good pace and the rewards will be doubled or trebled.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Bill the barbarian

[Akhôrahil]

After the GM book and the Cult book(s), the game will have reached an initial stage of completeness, at least as far as central Genertela is concerned. We’ll have gotten the cults, Lunar magic, Illumination, heroquesting, and hero systems (at least, this is my understanding).

Perhaps the biggest missing piece at this point will be a full Sorcery system.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Ned]

15 hours ago, Pheres said:

mundane things (how are living standard peoples, what are they feeling, etc...). 

The King Of Dragon Pass game offers many insights into 'everyday' Sartarite life, behaviours, feelings, etc.

[g33k]

21 hours ago, Pheres said:

... about mundane things (how are living standard peoples, what are they feeling, etc...). In other games, based on novels or movies, we generally know this things by reading or watching the novel/movie, but in Glorantha, there is not such thing. And for me are missing materials that can make the decor more real!

Games that are based upon the IP of an existing franchise -- like Star Wars RPG or Star Trek RPG; and of course D&D which is big enough to spin-off novel lines (& even a movie or two!) -- have a huge step up in terms of popular visualization.

But those are actually the vast MINORITY of RPGs.

There's some good stuff in the links above (thanks all)!
 

@Pheres did those help?

 

[Lordabdul]

6 hours ago, Ned said:

The King Of Dragon Pass game offers many insights into 'everyday' Sartarite life, behaviours, feelings, etc.

Yes!  I also agree with the OP that it was a bit hard at first to figure out what it's like to live in this world, because so much of the material is about history, myths, gods, heroes, and kings... which is great if you play games where you are indeed heroes and kings, but most of the time I like to play more gritty/"street level" campaigns where the PCs are "average" people (that's probably coming from 20 years of CoC). King of Dragon Pass is very good at showing the every day life of Sartar and greatly helped me form a mental picture... that is, until I got the HeroQuest Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes and Sartar Companion, which are pretty good on that front too but just not as easy and friendly than a video game.

Edited August 21, 2020 by lordabdul

[Bill the barbarian]

22 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Yes!  I also agree with the OP that it was a bit hard at first to figure out what it's like to live in this world, because so much of the material is about history, myths, gods, heroes, and kings... which is great if you play games where you are indeed heroes and kings, but most of the time I like to play more gritty/"street level" campaigns where the PCs are "average" people (that's probably coming from 20 years of CoC). King of Dragon Pass is very good at showing the every day life of Sartar and greatly helped me form a mental picture... that is, until I got the HeroQuest Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes and Sartar Companion, which are pretty good on that front too but just not as easy and friendly than a video game.

Agreed.

[Pheres]

6 hours ago, g33k said:

Games that are based upon the IP of an existing franchise -- like Star Wars RPG or Star Trek RPG; and of course D&D which is big enough to spin-off novel lines (& even a movie or two!) -- have a huge step up in terms of popular visualization.

But those are actually the vast MINORITY of RPGs.

There's some good stuff in the links above (thanks all)!
 

@Pheres did those help?

 

@g33k: yes it's helping, thanks. But i am dreaming on novel in Glorantha (and translated into french! )

[g33k]

On 8/21/2020 at 4:28 AM, Pheres said:

... But i am dreaming on novel in Glorantha ...

Boyle's Queen's Heir is as close as it gets, I think.

Collected Griselda (short stories) hits novel size.

 

On 8/21/2020 at 4:28 AM, Pheres said:

... (and translated into french! )

I think you're out of luck on that.

Honestly, I think there is enough history/players/fans of RQ in France that I wouldn't be shocked if there were a native French novel.

 

OK... I would be shocked... but only by learning of it now:  I'd expect the grognards would mention it, trotting out the mention alongside the others in this thread...

Edited August 26, 2020 by g33k

[Zit]

Does any one know if PeterJackson is looking for a new inspiration 😁 ?

[Nick Brooke]

3 hours ago, g33k said:

Boyle's Queen's Heir is as close as it gets, I think.

Collected Griselda (short stories) hits novel size.

"Helden," the heart of the John Hughes collection I shared, is a bona fide novella. 

[Runeblogger]

I loved reading Helden. I had a lot of fun reading The Widow's Tale. 👈

Sadly, it is out of print. 

[21st Century Moose]

On 8/20/2020 at 8:32 AM, Crel said:

The Queen's Heir by John Boyle began life as a Glorantha novel, although the setting was moved to a Fantasy Earth Bronze Age instead. I don't know the story behind that. I haven't gotten to it in my reading stack, but if you're looking for a novel which already exists to point your players to, maybe that's a place to start.

I've read this. It's very obviously a very thinly-disguised Glorantha, even to the extent of forgetting or omitting to change some place names once or twice. 

For lighter, shorter reading I still recommend The Travels of Biturian Varosh from the old Cults of Prax supplement as the perfect introduction. 

[Bill the barbarian]

3 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

"Helden," the heart of the John Hughes collection I shared, is a bona fide novella. 

John used to be a huge influence on Glorantha, I see he still maintains a site. Any ideas if he will be contributing JC products?

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, 21stCenturyMoose said:

I've read this. It's very obviously a very thinly-disguised Glorantha, even to the extent of forgetting or omitting to change some place names once or twice. 

 

It was once upon a time straight up Glorantha... Can’t remember the tribe, was it Culbrea? Any of the Old Ones remember?

Edited August 21, 2020 by Bill the barbarian

[DreadDomain]

7 hours ago, g33k said:

Boyle's Queen's Heir is as close as it gets, I think.

This is as been on my radar for a while. The fact it was initially based on Glorantha makes me want to read it. The fact it has moved away from Glorantha makes me hesitate. Is it any good. 

7 hours ago, g33k said:

Collected Griselda (short stories) hits novel size.

My copy is currently on a boat so I might have a chance to re-read it in a few months!

[DreadDomain]

2 hours ago, Runeblogger said:

I had a lot of fun reading The Widow's Tale. 👈

Sadly, it is out of print. 

Ohhh... wasn't aware of that on be. Your blog entry makes me want top read it.