Argrath in Sartar

[Puckohue]

The Glorantha Sourcebook has this to say:

 

<quote>Argrath went to the Thunder Brothers at Old Wind Temple for a blessing, and got it. He went to Sun Dome County and installed his friend Rurik Runespear as Count. He went to Clearwine for a blessing from the Colymar, and got it. At Two-Ridge Fort he installed his friend Vailor Blue Fox as king of the Malani. Argrath put the Tricksters under his protection and told them to come out of hiding. Argrath then went to Boldhome, accompanied by his companions. </quote>
 

Do you think that list of destinations should be read as chronological?

Do you think he would be noticed when travelling around Sartar? Maybe people loyal to him joins him along the way?

What about his army? I’m guessing he’d bring some kind of force (in addition to his companions). Or would he be able to install counts and kings simply by reputation?

[Darius West]

34 minutes ago, Puckohue said:

Do you think that list of destinations should be read as chronological?

Probably not, but you never know.  If all myths are true, then perhaps things happen exactly as they are recorded.

34 minutes ago, Puckohue said:

Do you think he would be noticed when travelling around Sartar? Maybe people loyal to him joins him along the way?

Well, Argrath is an Orlanthi, and so he can Guided Teleport, or fly, and can use the Sandals of Darkness to pass unnoticed.  Or he can just roam the land with a terrifying band of warriors and his enemies will simply pretend they cannot see him.

37 minutes ago, Puckohue said:

What about his army? I’m guessing he’d bring some kind of force (in addition to his companions). Or would he be able to install counts and kings simply by reputation?

 Nobody installs kings just by their reputation alone.  Argrath at this point in his life already controls the good will and resources of Prax.  Crowns are bought and sold in Sartar, and it is likely that Vailor Blue Fox had his own fortune to call upon, as well as Argrath's herds.  Of course, having Argrath's personally appointed man on the tribal throne of the Malani may well have been politically astute for the Malani too, so reputation certainly doesn't count for nothing either imo.  Call it a 30% discount?

[Ian_W]

10 hours ago, Darius West said:

Nobody installs kings just by their reputation alone. 

If Jar-Eel turned up to some corner of the Lunar Empire armed with a smile and said the Satrap was X rather than Y, I think even Y's old friends would see it's time to switch horses.

 

Lets maybe just say 'No ordinary mortal installs kings just by their reputation alone'.

[Jeff]

3 hours ago, Ian_W said:

If Jar-Eel turned up to some corner of the Lunar Empire armed with a smile and said the Satrap was X rather than Y, I think even Y's old friends would see it's time to switch horses.

 

Lets maybe just say 'No ordinary mortal installs kings just by their reputation alone'.

During the heyday of the Sartar Dynasty, I think many tribes acclaimed "friends of the Prince" as a matter of course. That meant access to the Prince and his largess, advantage over rivals, and other advantages. When a tribal leader quarrelled with the Prince is notable enough to be recorded (and as far as I know, was always a failure on the part of the tribal leader).

[RHW]

8 hours ago, Ian_W said:

If Jar-Eel turned up to some corner of the Lunar Empire armed with a smile and said the Satrap was X rather than Y, I think even Y's old friends would see it's time to switch horses.

With Jar-Eel, the army is implied.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

20 hours ago, Puckohue said:

At Two-Ridge Fort he installed his friend Vailor Blue Fox as king of the Malani.

What happened with the previous King, Sarostip?  He, and to a lesser degree Vailor, have been major NPCs in our campaign.

[Puckohue]

At this point (late spring, early summer 1627) I assume people all over Sartar will have heard about the recent success at Alda-Chur.

[jajagappa]

8 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

What happened with the previous King, Sarostip?

See the Starter Set, book 2, page 42. "A Sword Lord of Humakt, Sarostip is a cousin of the present Malani king, and was for many years the chieftain of his own clan. Sarostip abdicated all clan and tribal offices and severed himself from his kin, so that he might carry out a terrible deed without his kin suffering the consequences. In 1624, on Humakt’s high holy day, Sarostip led a band of Humakti from the Malani and other tribes and killed the Lunar puppet ruler of Sartar, Temertain the Philosopher."

Also, between Sarostip and Vailor is the warrior-queen of the Malani, Amalda Edrufsdaughter.  (p.26 of same book).  She is one of the figures who dies at the Battle of the Queens.

[Nick Brooke]

7 hours ago, Puckohue said:

At this point (late spring, early summer 1627) I assume people all over Sartar will have heard about the recent success at Alda-Chur.

Not just "heard about." Argrath, fresh from his victory against the Heartland Corps, is now leading his forces on a victory lap through Sartar: the Barbarian Horde of Praxians and Pol-Joni (many of them members of the apocalyptic White Bull cult who are personally devoted to him as their Prophet), reinforced by a throat-slitting medley of Pavic "Freedom Fighters" (most notably the bandits of the Pavis Royal Guard, but don't forget all those extremists exiled from Sartar after the Lunar conquest and various failed rebellions) and the pan-Gloranthan flotsam and jetsam of the Wolf Pirate Nation, and backed up by his cadre of weird-ass Warlocks. When he turns up, vacancies are filled. Some of them may not have existed until he turned up...

[Rodney Dangerduck]

47 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Argrath, fresh from his victory against the Heartland Corps, is now leading his forces on a victory lap through Sartar

In our campaign, Leika (and other Sartarite notables) negotiated with Argrath so that most of his problematic forces stayed north of The Rubicon Creek. 

We like our cities and apple orchards as they are.  So far, so good...

[Darius West]

20 hours ago, Ian_W said:

If Jar-Eel turned up to some corner of the Lunar Empire armed with a smile and said the Satrap was X rather than Y, I think even Y's old friends would see it's time to switch horses.  Lets maybe just say 'No ordinary mortal installs kings just by their reputation alone'.

Well, Jar-Eel might have risen to prominence if she weren't born into the 'House of Eel', but let's face facts, she's a daughter of privilege.  I say this to highlight the fact that a substantial portion of her power derives from the influence of her family and its connections.  The Eel family brings a lot of political, military, magical and economic resources to the table; when Jar-Eel comes to negotiate, she is never coming to the table alone, even if she is technically physically alone.

[Joerg]

18 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Well, Jar-Eel might have risen to prominence if she weren't born into the 'House of Eel', but let's face facts, she's a daughter of privilege.  I say this to highlight the fact that a substantial portion of her power derives from the influence of her family and its connections.  The Eel family brings a lot of political, military, magical and economic resources to the table; when Jar-Eel comes to negotiate, she is never coming to the table alone, even if she is technically physically alone.

Jar-eel is of course born from privilege. Without Hon-eel's privilege the Red Emperor would probably not have agreed to the Eel-Ariash breeding scheme which resulted in Jar-eel's birth.

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

Well, Jar-Eel might have risen to prominence if she weren't born into the 'House of Eel', but let's face facts, she's a daughter of privilege.

Jar-Eel would not have been born to another House in the same way.

She is both the result of a breeding programme, starting with Hon-Eel, and an Inspiration of Moonson.

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

I say this to highlight the fact that a substantial portion of her power derives from the influence of her family and its connections. 

Isn't she also the Red Emperor's daughter? I always assumed that she was. That carries with it a great deal of power.

 

[Joerg]

32 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Isn't she also the Red Emperor's daughter? I always assumed that she was. That carries with it a great deal of power.

There are at least two Red Emperors in her lineage (Hon-eel's dad (Magnificus?), and her own, Ignifer(?)), but quite likely more.

[EricW]

Argrath is a terrifying warrior mage who took down the Lunars. Even before the dragon rise people would have been in awe. I think people would no more defy him than they would defy the Crimson Bat or Harek.

[Joerg]

24 minutes ago, EricW said:

Argrath is a terrifying warrior mage who took down the Lunars. Even before the dragon rise people would have been in awe. I think people would no more defy him than they would defy the Crimson Bat or Harek.

After the moon has fallen, yes. Before that, he is a driven fanatic who has sworn to do so, but hasn't, yet. Still vaporware, so to say.

 

[Grievous]

15 hours ago, soltakss said:

Jar-Eel would not have been born to another House in the same way.

She is both the result of a breeding programme, starting with Hon-Eel, and an Inspiration of Moonson.

Isn't she also the Red Emperor's daughter? I always assumed that she was. That carries with it a great deal of power.

 

Hmm. The term breeding program gets thrown around a lot in these discussions around Jar-eel and I appreciate the Dune vibes, but what do we know about the components of this breeding scheme? I mean, the obvious answer is to pack as much of Red Emperor lineages into the family tree, but that isn't much of a program as standard operating procedure?

15 hours ago, Joerg said:

There are at least two Red Emperors in her lineage (Hon-eel's dad (Magnificus?), and her own, Ignifer(?)), but quite likely more.

TakenEgi is Hon-eel's father and Jar-eel's is Reclusus. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Grievous

[EricW]

On 12/15/2021 at 6:59 AM, Joerg said:

After the moon has fallen, yes. Before that, he is a driven fanatic who has sworn to do so, but hasn't, yet. Still vaporware, so to say.

 

Summoning a dragon and destroying an entire city + lunar magicians + major command post is pretty convincing 😉

[AndreJarosch]

24 minutes ago, EricW said:

Summoning a dragon and destroying an entire city + lunar magicians + major command post is pretty convincing 😉

Unfortunately that was Kallyr and her companions, not Argrath. 

[Dr. Devici]

55 minutes ago, AndreJarosch said:

Unfortunately that was Kallyr and her companions, not Argrath. 

I don't believe there is an absolute answer to who orchestrated the Dragonrise (though I'm personally a fan of the idea that it was the culmination of the work of various parties, none of whom expected the final result).

Either way, iirc Kallyr distances herself from the event because it would be a political nightmare for her to take responsibility, on account of many people losing kin who were present at the Lunar temple. Even if Argrath were responsible, I doubt he would parade that fact around.

 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

45 minutes ago, Dr. Device said:

I don't believe there is an absolute answer to who orchestrated the Dragonrise (though I'm personally a fan of the idea that it was the culmination of the work of various parties, none of whom expected the final result).

Seems obvious to me that The Dragon orchestrated all this, for reasons unknowable to human consciousness.

[Alex]

1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Seems obvious to me that The Dragon orchestrated all this, for reasons unknowable to human consciousness.

Peckishness?

[g33k]

15 hours ago, Grievous said:

Hmm. The term breeding program gets thrown around a lot in these discussions around Jar-eel and I appreciate the Dune vibes, but what do we know about the components of this breeding scheme? I mean, the obvious answer is to pack as much of Red Emperor lineages into the family tree, but that isn't much of a program as standard operating procedure?

I usually see it described as a *magical* breeding program.  So yes, the "best bloodlines," but don't stop there...

A metric craptonne of Bless Pregnancies... for generations.

Possibly secret (Solar?) "Bless Conception" magic.

Heroquesting the themes of fertility, mightiness even as a youth, superhuman achievement, divine ascension, &c.

Apply the results.  Study the results, and then go heroquesting for better results.

[Alex]

15 hours ago, Grievous said:

Hmm. The term breeding program gets thrown around a lot in these discussions around Jar-eel and I appreciate the Dune vibes, but what do we know about the components of this breeding scheme? I mean, the obvious answer is to pack as much of Red Emperor lineages into the family tree, but that isn't much of a program as standard operating procedure?

On the face of it, a magical breeding programme would look like a series of divination rituals to determine which lineage members need to be mated with which others to best advance the Golden Path.  Those might be exceptionally high information gain, or they might be just some woo for window-dressing.  Whether the whole enterprise looks more like Dune or like Carry On Incestuous Orgies maybe a matter of taste or IWG.

[Alex]

11 hours ago, Dr. Device said:

Either way, iirc Kallyr distances herself from the event because it would be a political nightmare for her to take responsibility, on account of many people losing kin who were present at the Lunar temple. Even if Argrath were responsible, I doubt he would parade that fact around.

Also because IMO at that point, the whole 'consorting with dragons' thing would still be immensely room-splitting in itself.  Even with upsides like "lots of Lunars and symps died" and "liberated the Kingdom", that's set against "oh god, more mysticism: frying pan, fire!", "this ended really really badly last time!" and "we have to explain the the Stormbullies all over again how it's not actually all a subtle form of chaos".  Be a while until people start taking epithets like "Dragonfriend" as a point of pride, and not a snarl word.