Playable Cults / Races

[David Scott]

15 minutes ago, Eff said:

I was responding to the bolded sentence in the following quoted post. Which, to my mind, seems to straightforwardly say that Chalana Arroy cultists are different mentally from human beings, because their vows aren't enforced, they just won't do things which break their vows. But perhaps the person who posted it can clarify if I misunderstood them 

7 hours ago, David Scott said:

Anyone with a sincere wish to heal may join, and this sincerity is checked with Divination.

You will fail the Divination test if you aren't sincere. You are accepting non-violence and vegetarianism.

As all cult members including lay members have passed the divination (avoiding the usual call of what about illumination) , there's little reason to police it. That's not to say that cult members can't go rogue. Just like any religious movement in the real world, there is plenty of cases of this happening. However the big difference here is you just lose your connection with the goddess. Apostates will be obvious.

Edited September 29, 2022 by David Scott

[Bill the barbarian]

4 minutes ago, David Scott said:

That's not to say that cult members can go rogue

And if that does not scream ADVENTURE... nothing ever will!

4 minutes ago, David Scott said:

However the big difference here is you just lose your connection with the goddess. Apostates will be obvious.

Of course this a problem, but there are some excellent Chaosium scenarios that have turn-coated priests... they just went to what they thought were bigger Gods who could protect them from the forth-coming retaliations.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[Jeff]

Just now, David Scott said:

You will fail the Divination test if you aren't sincere. You are accepting non-violence and vegetarianism.

As all cult members including lay members have passed the divination (avoiding the usual call of what about illumination) , there's little reason to police it. That's not to say that cult members can go rogue. Just like any religious movement in the real world, there is plenty of cases of this happening. However the big difference here is you just lose your connection with the goddess. Apostates will be obvious.

Yep. If you aren't sincere about accepting non-violence, benevolence, and vegetarianism, you can't join the cult. Of course it is possible for someone who is sincere about their vows to still fail, but that's going to be the exception that proves the rule.

[Eff]

4 minutes ago, David Scott said:

You will fail the Divination test if you aren't sincere. You are accepting non-violence and vegetarianism.

As all cult members including lay members have passed the divination (avoiding the usual call of what about illumination) , there's little reason to police it. That's not to say that cult members can't go rogue. Just like any religious movement in the real world, there is plenty of cases of this happening. However the big difference here is you just lose your connection with the goddess. Apostates will be obvious.

So the clarification is that the Divination test picks out people who will not engage in violence, but also it doesn't matter because the oaths are enforced by divine sanction. I don't really understand why the Divination test is at all relevant, then, because all it does is create this bizarre implicit assumption that CA cultists or Gloranthans are significantly more static personalities than human beings generally are, such that a single act of divination shows that they're a good fit. 

(Never mind how a GM should run that for roleplaying joining the cult in play.)

6 minutes ago, Jeff said:

If you are playing a Chalana Arroy character in a published scenario, when it is combat time, you can aid the others by casting Sleep or Befuddle, or by healing the wounded - but you can't fight. That's not CA's way.

That doesn't really answer the questions that I have been bringing up with Bill, which have nothing to do with CA cultists fighting and presume total pacifism on their part. They are about CA cultists presumably believing in peaceful resolutions as part of the ideology of the cult and goddess, which is about healing the world. Perhaps the cult and goddess believe that the world must first be broken to be healed and so don't try to bring about peaceful solutions to conflict?

6 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

And if that does not scream ADVENTURE... nothing ever will!

It sure does, doesn't it? You might even get a whole subgenre of someone living in disgrace coming back and trying to redeem themselves out of this concept. 

[Jeff]

38 minutes ago, Eff said:

 

That doesn't really answer the questions that I have been bringing up with Bill, which have nothing to do with CA cultists fighting and presume total pacifism on their part. They are about CA cultists presumably believing in peaceful resolutions as part of the ideology of the cult and goddess, which is about healing the world. Perhaps the cult and goddess believe that the world must first be broken to be healed and so don't try to bring about peaceful solutions to conflict?

 

Chalana Arroy was passive for much of the God Time, refusing to take an active side in any fight. But when the Celestial Court was thrown down by Chaos, she found a being she could not heal, for it was a dead god. Chalana Arroy decided that her passivity no longer worked, though her son Arroin urged her to stay and keep her purity for the sake of the cosmos. While they debated, they were met by Flesh Man, who was witless from seeing the death of the whole world even before it was over. Chalana Arroy chose to lay aside her passivity and act. She left behind her son and followed the Flesh Man to search for the Wound in the Cosmos to heal it. While so seeking, she became one of the Lightbringers, traveling to Hell to return Emperor Yelm to power.

Arroin stayed behind, protected by every living thing that could help him. In return, he helped everyone whenever he could. Even so, his fate was wretched, for he attracted the emptiness of Chaos to him, and each time he tried to heal Chaos, his magic powers broke. He was wounded continually, and at the end lay close to death. Finally, he hid in the material world, and so survived long enough to see the Dawning, and to greet his mother back to the world. But his powers were never the same.

 

 

[soltakss]

I play a Chalana Arroy Healer in our current RQG Campaign.

He does not fight, at all. In fact, I have removed all combat skills from his Roll20 Character Sheet.

He is a combat medic for the Black Spears, so is fine with other people fighting.

If there is a combat, or an ambush, the first thing he shouts is "I'm a Healer, do not hurt me".

He has cast Peace to end conflict, in the past.

The Party fought zombies and he stayed out of the combat, except to heal, as he doesn't want to fight.

He sometimes casts Sleep, but there was a discussion in the party about when his protection ended, some thought that the prisoner could be let out and than attacked, but I said I wouldn't heal anyone who did that. They didn't want to ransom the prisoner, so let her go without armour or weapons.

He is a vegetarian and refuses any dish that contains meat, preferring to starve than break his vows.

 

I have found him to be eminently playable and have not yet seen anything that makes me think "What if ...", some things are black and white.

[Eff]

3 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Chalana Arroy was passive for much of the God Time, refusing to take an active side in any fight. But when the Celestial Court was thrown down by Chaos, she found a being she could not heal, for it was a dead god. Chalana Arroy decided that her passivity no longer worked, though her son Arroin urged her to stay and keep her purity for the sake of the cosmos. While they debated, they were met by Flesh Man, who was witless from seeing the death of the whole world even before it was over. Chalana Arroy chose to lay aside her passivity and act. She left behind her son and followed the Flesh Man to search for the Wound in the Cosmos to heal it. While so seeking, she became one of the Lightbringers, traveling to Hell to return Emperor Yelm to power.

 

Arroin stayed behind, protected by every living thing that could help him. In return, he helped everyone whenever he could. Even so, his fate was wretched, for he attracted the emptiness of Chaos to him, and each time he tried to heal Chaos, his magic powers broke. He was wounded continually, and at the end lay close to death. Finally, he hid in the material world, and so survived long enough to see the Dawning, and to greet his mother back to the world. But his powers were never the same.

 

 

This does not actually have much to do with those questions. I don't see what copy-pasting this lore information does to clear up the question of whether Chalana Arroy cultists should be indifferent to killing and wounding and purely reactive, or whether they should be proactively attempting to prevent injuries and deaths from taking place. Arroin could be seen as a cautionary tale about the foolishness of attempting to affect the world proactively, except that the story is about trying to heal Chaos, which would not seem to apply to mundane, worldly conflicts. So I must admit bafflement as to the point of this passage in this context. 

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 9/27/2022 at 6:52 PM, ffilz said:

I'd love to hear more about PC Chalana Arroy. What sorts of adventures did the PCs participate in?

It IS worth noting that my RQ campaigns tend more to the murder hobo side of things......

The CA adventurer I referred to earlier was started in a Six Seasons based campaign, as a pre- initiation Orlanthi.  The player wanted a CA and I said there is no CA here in the Vale to teach him.  You can go talk to the Ernalda priestess about learning healing.  This is like you're born in some little Kansas farm town and you want to learn to be a physician.  You can't do that at home, you need to go to a university.  Your character will have to go to a city like Jonstown where there is a famous hospital / CA temple if you want to join CA. 

Basically I made him work for it.  Under the old RQ2 requirements to initiate into CA, not the new RQiG  'sincerity only' test.  The Ernalda priestess interviewed him, went on about how cute he had been as a baby, and agreed to teach him First Aid and eventually gave him a letter to the Jonstown hospital. 

So the Adventurer did just that:  We played through Six Seasons while he worked on learning First Aid and a couple of points of Healing.  During Six Seasons,

Spoiler

this was the player who reached out for the golden orb, all the other players hesitated - ... you'll have to read it to appreciate.  He ended up being priest of the Rainbow Wyrm spirit cult on the side.  Anyway, when the defecation hit the fan at the end of Six Seasons,, one of the party members had a crit at the right time and the Lunar priestess had to do Divine Intervention while the Haraborn escaped.

When Six Seasons wrapped up I segued to Griffin Mountain.  At this point the campaign lost a couple of players who had just been curious about Six Seasons, but didn't like playing via Zoom.

The Adventurers went through Jonstown as Kallyr's folks had arranged the party's escape from Sartar, since they were wanted - "You need to get out of Sartar for a while or you'll end up crucified on the edge of the road."  They made an Underground Railroad style journey to Jonstown by a circuitous route.  The wannabe CA hired on with Jo Mith as a muleteer, and the rest of the party mostly passed the skill test to be guards (at a higher rate of pay).  In Jonstown the campaign picked up two locals, an Issaries and a Lhankor Mhy, both going to Balazar, who also made the group better balanced and got my PC count back up to six.

The trip to Balazar grazed Brangbane's ghouls, did not enter Snakepipe Hollow (but passing by is dangerous enough) took a dip into Trollpack on the way, et cetera.  Then we actually did a year of Griffin Mountain, with plenty of opportunities for character and skill development.  In Balazar the character joined CA as a lay member since there is a CA priestess in Trilus.  During this year the party picked up a very interesting item on a minor Issaries heroquest, which they entrusted to the would be healer. (No, that heroquest is not in Griffin Mountain.  It's a sandbox campaign and I played in the sandbox.)

On the return from Balazar, they quit Mith's caravan upon arrival in Jonstown.   That was the Adventurer's chance and place to actually initiate into CA.  At this point, as a fairly well developed character. 

I segued through the Heroquest version of Apple Lane, to Company of the Dragon, and we played through all that. 

Spoiler

As priest of ShVashKak, he was also head of the Company,

but the rest of the PCs were the Ring, so it was still not a non-violent campaign.  But a lot of Company of the Dragon does not encourage excessive violence, it's not a murder hobo campaign,  and our Healer was perfectly good at getting though various adventures vs. opponents against whom violence is maybe not the smartest option.   Plenty of work for a healer, but also some disease spirits that the now-Powerful healer beat and milked for POW.  So he was the party's most POWerful, though non lethal, magic user.  By the end of COD of course all these folks are pretty powerful. 

Spoiler

And the healer has not yielded to the temptation to use draconic magic, yet. But it's other members' ace in the hole, see Battle of Queens below, where they used Draconic terror.

 Sartar freed, more or less....  the battle of Dangerford,

Spoiler

{where the Adventurers used a trollish weapon of mass destruction, creating a Lunar rout; the CA of course did not activate it -)

Rebuilding the Vale,  a segue into The Smoking Ruin, (which definitely gets them noticed by Leika), and more rebuilding the Vale.   The Battle of Queens, in which our CA had occasion to heal and our more violent Adventurers had combat.  Burning Kallyr's body.   And we are up to more or less current campaign events, about which I will write little as I am alternating between Seven Tailed Wolf and a project of my own, which stretches the calendar a little.

Anyway, I have presented to you a campaign without any murder hobo activity.  Persecuted peasants, refugees, merchants, freedom fighters, heroquesters

Spoiler

using a weapon of mass destruction (a dragon)

,  being sent on missions by Temples and in the interest of their clan, yes -  but never murder hoboes. 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Squaredeal Sten
explanation, additons, and as always spelling

[ffilz]

Jeff, thanks for all that. Sounds like a fun campaign. And maybe enough to convince me that a CA party member could work even in my campaign.

I should add that while I label my campaign as old school and sort of murder hobo, calling the PCs murder hoboes would definitely be a mis-characterization. It is hard to run a Gloranthan campaign without some greater sense of purpose developing and that is a huge part of why I enjoy RQ, on the other hand, some of the characterization I've read of Glorantha as an experiment in cultural anthropology turn me off. But I know that I can run a campaign I enjoy and even incorporate bits from almost anything published about Glorantha. But I label my campaign as old school and mention murder hoboes so that prospective players aren't expecting something that it isn't.

And I guess what I would say to a player interested in Chalana Arroy is to consider the nature of the campaign, and decide if a Chalana Arroy follower is what they REALLY want to play. If they take the attitude of your player, then they will likely have a lot of fun. But if they want to see how close they can come to encouraging violence, and play "look the other way" games, I'm going to get irritated. If you want to run an easy to play character in my campaign, follow Orlanth...

I'm still looking for a dedicated player willing to really step into Humakt. I love the cult, but it IS hard to play...

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, ffilz said:

Jeff, thanks for all that. Sounds like a fun campaign. And maybe enough to convince me that a CA party member could work even in my campaign.

I should add that while I label my campaign as old school and sort of murder hobo, calling the PCs murder hoboes would definitely be a mis-characterization. It is hard to run a Gloranthan campaign without some greater sense of purpose developing and that is a huge part of why I enjoy RQ, on the other hand, some of the characterization I've read of Glorantha as an experiment in cultural anthropology turn me off. But I know that I can run a campaign I enjoy and even incorporate bits from almost anything published about Glorantha. But I label my campaign as old school and mention murder hoboes so that prospective players aren't expecting something that it isn't.

And I guess what I would say to a player interested in Chalana Arroy is to consider the nature of the campaign, and decide if a Chalana Arroy follower is what they REALLY want to play. If they take the attitude of your player, then they will likely have a lot of fun. But if they want to see how close they can come to encouraging violence, and play "look the other way" games, I'm going to get irritated. If you want to run an easy to play character in my campaign, follow Orlanth...

I'm still looking for a dedicated player willing to really step into Humakt. I love the cult, but it IS hard to play...

All of the cults require that commitment IMO. If you don't want tp play someone dedicated to Death and Truth, don't join Humakt! Same with Orlanth, Seven Mothers, or anyone else. There's about 20 cults in the main book to choose from - pick one that sings to you.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

If you don't want tp play someone dedicated to Death and Truth, don't join Humakt!

My issue is what if your character isn't particularly dedicated to anything?  One the fence.  They are just normal?

For example, I'm toying with a possible PC, so far appearing as an NPC, of a "sane" Babs Gor, who is an excellent tracker and bounty hunter, but brings the perps back alive, and has a relatively low Death Rune and "Hate Oath Breaker", etc.  She mainly uses her "bloodthirty Babs Goriness" to boost Intimidate the baddies and avoid unnecessary fighting.

I enjoy playing the cultists who are a little off the stereotype.  For another example, haven't played it, but would love to try a Humakti who is a little older, wiser, has met somebody he loves, and would just like to survive, earn "one last big score", then buy a farm and grow old together.  Of course, something will intervene, but that's the concept.

[Squaredeal Sten]

5 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

My issue is what if your character isn't particularly dedicated to anything?  One the fence.  They are just normal?

For example, I'm toying with a possible PC, so far appearing as an NPC, of a "sane" Babs Gor, who is an excellent tracker and bounty hunter, but brings the perps back alive, and has a relatively low Death Rune and "Hate Oath Breaker", etc.  She mainly uses her "bloodthirty Babs Goriness" to boost Intimidate the baddies and avoid unnecessary fighting.

I enjoy playing the cultists who are a little off the stereotype.  For another example, haven't played it, but would love to try a Humakti who is a little older, wiser, has met somebody he loves, and would just like to survive, earn "one last big score", then buy a farm and grow old together.  Of course, something will intervene, but that's the concept.

But normal doesn't make heroes.  We are, most of us, pursuing heroic fantasy.  

Each cult"s god is an archetype of a hero that the adventurer wants to emulate.  And emulation is rewarded with divine magic which makes it more likely to be a successful hero.

This includes the heroic pacifist, the heroic scholar, the heroic merchant, as well as the heroic death dealer.  The heroic farmer or sailor or (earth) mother as well as the adventurer lord.  There are plenty of ideals to follow.

Why sign up for the death dealing cult if you want to be the heroic farmer?

[Rodney Dangerduck]

54 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

But normal doesn't make heroes.

Let's just agree to disagree here...

[g33k]

2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

My issue is what if your character isn't particularly dedicated to anything?  One the fence.  They are just normal?

I guess, for Orlanthi people, that'd be one of the people who's a Lay Member of Ernalda, Orlanth, most/all the Lightbringers... but Initiated to none of them.  Is that the concept you're talking about?

I've got to note that:

• Rune-Levels, Shamans, and Sorcerors are the ones with the normal/best routes to power, within the RQ rules
• Without Initiating, you get little to no Rune Magic... maybe a Shaman might find you a spirit with a Rune Spell (one Rune Spell) to grant.  And it'd co$t to hire the Shaman!  Generally, such exotic-source Rune Magic would only be gained in-play, via an adventure.

So your character would begin "underpowered" (vs. other PC's, & vs. published adventures), and get more so as the game progresses.

If I had a player who was really devoted to this idea -- devoted to be undevoted -- I'd try to work with them.

But I'd try to talk them out of it, or maybe I'd just run a different game.  It honestly feels like someone who doesn't want to engage with the setting:  you call it "just normal" but looking at NPC's, that lack of Cult Initiation isn't the norm.

If they were insistent about it, then... +% the Cultural Skills and Professional skills, to represent the stuff they did & learned when they WEREN'T learning from the temple teachers, etc.  Add (and/or increase) some non-Cult Passions.  Bring them up to SKILL & Passion parity... but still lacking Rune Magic, still "underpowered."

[PhilHibbs]

7 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

My issue is what if your character isn't particularly dedicated to anything?  One the fence.  They are just normal?
 

Is that normal?

As others have said, you'd be at a power disadvantage. If you're okay with that, then have fun!

[JRE]

We had a long campaign in RQ3 where the players were really a bunch of lazy initiates trying to make do while working as little as possible. So only RQ3 initiates and a self taught sorcerer (which is quite underpowered compared to RQG initiates, as Rune magic was one use), and no interest in entering the rat maze of rune levels (90% of my time? That is crazy. 90% of my earnings? That is robbery!). 

So they traveled around, though they were too laid back and risk averse to be true murder hoboes. It really played as Holiday Genertela, visiting a sizeable part of the continent. It worked really a Jack Vance homage, and it is interesting to see Glorantha as the result of ages of decadence, as well as funny hats and interesting foods. 

As all long campaigns, there was an accretion of power in high skills and magic trinkets, and they used all their increases in POW in enchantments, so they were quite tough by the end of it. But it was a combat light game.

The problem is having players that all agree to the theme.

Edited September 30, 2022 by JRE

[French Desperate WindChild]

7 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

My issue is what if your character isn't particularly dedicated to anything?  One the fence.  They are just normal?

that is for me acceptable. To be different, yes I m worshipping XXX, but I m not able (or don't want) to follow everything XXX do

 

the character doesn't  fit with "all" the expectations, the character must not obtain "all" the benefit.

the only issue is, for me as GM or player, if the player of this character complain because (s)he cannot obtain all the benefits

 

so yes this Humakti is honorable but not too much (60-65).. no problem, he follows the code but with breach. I, as the GM cult leader, know his weakness. I will not give him the opportunity to advance in the cult if there is another humakti more.... trustable.

 

so yes this Bab's sister prefer to understand than to destroy. Maybe she may be usefull for some job the "standard" cannot, some diplomatic way, investigation, etc... but of course she will be mocked (gently or not) by her sisteres. maybe she will have the opportunity to prove that her way is a babs good way too, by sacrifice, courage, and.... success

 

and success is the key word : It is easy to be respected as a "good" cultist, even if you fail. If you want to be respected as a "about" cultist, you must succeed and you must succeed better than other for the same result (cult reputation, divinity acceptation, etc...)

 

now, as a player, if I want to play a weird cultist, that is because it opens opportunity to join other cults * / knowing weird secrets and powers... etc.

But in that case of course I expect that I will not be so favored than another player by the GM-as-high-priest 

however, I expect too that the GM-as-campaign-designer will offer me the opportunity to obtain these weird stuff

 

* that's why the "only associed cult" restriction is for me too hard, as player or GM , and I will never follow it (official rules or not)

[David Scott]

8 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

My issue is what if your character isn't particularly dedicated to anything?  One the fence.  They are just normal?

For example, I'm toying with a possible PC, so far appearing as an NPC, of a "sane" Babs Gor, who is an excellent tracker and bounty hunter, but brings the perps back alive, and has a relatively low Death Rune and "Hate Oath Breaker", etc.  She mainly uses her "bloodthirty Babs Goriness" to boost Intimidate the baddies and avoid unnecessary fighting.

I enjoy playing the cultists who are a little off the stereotype.  For another example, haven't played it, but would love to try a Humakti who is a little older, wiser, has met somebody he loves, and would just like to survive, earn "one last big score", then buy a farm and grow old together.  Of course, something will intervene, but that's the concept.

Both of these are great concepts for RQ adventurers. You just manipulate the numbers in character generation to achieve those types. Stereotypes are include in the homeland section to aid in cultural portrayal, there's no reason to follow them when creating characters.

Remember that you only need one rune at 50% to join a cult. You can have a Humakti with a Truth rune at 50%, and add bonuses to life, reducing your death rune to less than 50%.

Likewise there's nothing to say in the cult writeup of Babeester Gor that they are insane, do the same as the humakti,  Earth rune at 50%, and add bonuses to life, reducing your death rune to less than 50%. Nothing about "bloodthirsty Babs Goriness" in the cult write up...

[French Desperate WindChild]

8 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

But normal doesn't make heroes.  We are, most of us, pursuing heroic fantasy.

what is "normal", normal, as a person who is not fanatic ? or normal as an initiate who acts like their deity ?

in my opinion we have two hero types :

 

hero 1 is the "avatar of their god"

hero 2 is those who choose to follow other ways, those who lost something and gain something else

 

Argrath is not a good Orlanthi for a sartarite priest in my opinion : he is able to work with lunars, even illuminates. That doesn't mean is not apreciated by Orlanth who were able to work with other tribes, but, clearly, I don't see any Orlanth Priest in Sartar who would accept his opinion, before he proved that he is so powerful that he can do what he wants.

 

[Jeff]

12 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

My issue is what if your character isn't particularly dedicated to anything?  One the fence.  They are just normal?

What you are describing as "normal" is IMO quite abnormal in a setting where we all go through magical adulthood initiation rites, interact with the divine realm, and give up part of your soul to communicate with specific gods and spirits. That's the norm, not us alienated moderns.

So let's take Vargast. He's a member of some smallish clan in Sartar - no kings, princes, etc. in his lineage! He goes through his adulthood rites and experiences those events that make one an adult man in his culture. He sees Chaos, he interacts with his ancestors, and he goes through the same magical struggle for self-identity that nearly every Orlanthi boy has had to go through since before the Dawn. It is an initiation into a wider world of magic, spirit, and gods.

Vargas's path, like most of the others in his group, led him to Orlanth the Storm God. Orlanth promises to aid him, let him wield his weapons, call upon his allies and followers, in exchange for worship and other specific actions - promises, vows, etc. Vargast call call upon Orlanth to bring clouds, raise winds, or maybe he takes the Four Weapons of Orlanth. Vargast pledges part of himself to Orlanth in exchange for this - which is likely very similar to how mundane follower-leader pledges work in his society.

After these magical rites, Vargast goes back to herding sheep and cattle. But he can feel Orlanth's presence - that connection is there. He has a patron god - the Storm God - whom he can sense in the winds or in the clouds. Vargast experiences the world differently than before his initiation - he is still a herder, doing the ordinary things that his clan and family demand of him, but he knows the world is more than just his ordinary tasks. This makes him a "normal" Orlanthi.

[Jeff]

Just now, Jeff said:

What you are describing as "normal" is IMO quite abnormal in a setting where we all go through magical adulthood initiation rites, interact with the divine realm, and give up part of your soul to communicate with specific gods and spirits. That's the norm, not us alienated moderns.

So let's take Vargast. He's a member of some smallish clan in Sartar - no kings, princes, etc. in his lineage! He goes through his adulthood rites and experiences those events that make one an adult man in his culture. He sees Chaos, he interacts with his ancestors, and he goes through the same magical struggle for self-identity that nearly every Orlanthi boy has had to go through since before the Dawn. It is an initiation into a wider world of magic, spirit, and gods.

Vargas's path, like most of the others in his group, led him to Orlanth the Storm God. Orlanth promises to aid him, let him wield his weapons, call upon his allies and followers, in exchange for worship and other specific actions - promises, vows, etc. Vargast call call upon Orlanth to bring clouds, raise winds, or maybe he takes the Four Weapons of Orlanth. Vargast pledges part of himself to Orlanth in exchange for this - which is likely very similar to how mundane follower-leader pledges work in his society.

After these magical rites, Vargast goes back to herding sheep and cattle. But he can feel Orlanth's presence - that connection is there. He has a patron god - the Storm God - whom he can sense in the winds or in the clouds. Vargast experiences the world differently than before his initiation - he is still a herder, doing the ordinary things that his clan and family demand of him, but he knows the world is more than just his ordinary tasks. This makes him a "normal" Orlanthi.

And that's how it works for some 70% of the adults in Sartar. There are a few groups, like the Telmori or Sun County folk who have different patrons, and some Seven Mothers followers, so let's put them aside. 

Instead, let's go to Berra. She's a member of the same clan as Sartar, and is taken to the Earth Temple at her first bleeding to be brought to the Womb of the Earth Mother. Except her path goes different from most of the other girls - heck, she's a little different. She meets the Talking God, who shows her another path, that goes elsewhere. She experiences the joy and pleasure of experiencing something "outside", of interacting with the "foreign". She gains Issaries as a patron, and pledges part of her soul to him. She makes very different vows from the other young women (and from Vargast and his companions).

Afterwards, her clan apprentices her to a merchant or trader in the nearby city - maybe he's a member of the same clan, or maybe he's just a friend of the clan. She can also "feel" Issaries in the market, in spoken Tradetalk, whereever disputes are resolved with words rather than violence. 

[Eff]

13 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

My issue is what if your character isn't particularly dedicated to anything?  One the fence.  They are just normal?

For example, I'm toying with a possible PC, so far appearing as an NPC, of a "sane" Babs Gor, who is an excellent tracker and bounty hunter, but brings the perps back alive, and has a relatively low Death Rune and "Hate Oath Breaker", etc.  She mainly uses her "bloodthirty Babs Goriness" to boost Intimidate the baddies and avoid unnecessary fighting.

I enjoy playing the cultists who are a little off the stereotype.  For another example, haven't played it, but would love to try a Humakti who is a little older, wiser, has met somebody he loves, and would just like to survive, earn "one last big score", then buy a farm and grow old together.  Of course, something will intervene, but that's the concept.

This is, I think, a weakness of runes representing personality traits, because the sticking point is whether the connection of cult/initiation is primarily from the similarity of personality or from the performance of the god's divine role in the material world, etc. Your BG NPC certainly fits the latter, because she does the intimidation, the unstoppable retribution against transgressors, etc. but because her mental state differs in not being driven by hatred and the desire for violence (which has been part of the extended description of the cult of Babeester Gor ever since the goddess was first presented publicly), she doesn't quite fit the former. (Setting aside the question of homebrewing numbers, because the numbers are very much secondary to this question of whether cult identity is at the level of personality or at the level of representation.) Even though I think the NPC absolutely works as a cultist of Babeester Gor when cutting away mechanics as much as possible and looking at the presented social role. 

EDIT: I suppose one of the difficulties of the performance/role approach, though, is that it might be too modern, because we only have archaeological records of theater from after the Bronze Age! 😛

Edited September 30, 2022 by Eff

[Joerg]

24 minutes ago, Eff said:

This is, I think, a weakness of runes representing personality traits, because the sticking point is whether the connection of cult/initiation is primarily from the similarity of personality or from the performance of the god's divine role in the material world, etc.

For my personal experience of mysteries or immersion in fiction in whichever media, I find that other than a temperament for the ritus I need quite some preparation to find the mood and flow, especially if I come in cold from a different flow/immersion.

On the other hand, you don't usually cast your divine magic out of the blue, but in some form of crisis or escalation which would complement your magic.

That's not to say that Humakti sword magic should be easier to cast after a melee round or two of actual swordplay, or at least meditative kata. The rules allow the latter.

 

24 minutes ago, Eff said:

Your BG NPC certainly fits the latter, because she does the intimidation, the unstoppable retribution against transgressors, etc. but because her mental state differs in not being driven by hatred and the desire for violence (which has been part of the extended description of the cult of Babeester Gor ever since the goddess was first presented publicly), she doesn't quite fit the former.

Just having discussed Babeester Gor, hatred might be less of an issue as a burning anger or rage. If Voria is the innocence of childhood, Babs might be the confrontation of puberty.

Babeester Gor investigators seem to be quite popular extra concepts, even if such investigations end in blood and gore.

 

24 minutes ago, Eff said:

EDIT: I suppose one of the difficulties of the performance/role approach, though, is that it might be too modern, because we only have archaeological records of theater from after the Bronze Age! 😛

Interesting point, but storytelling using voices (and be it animal sounds) would be quite ancient. How much are ritual masks a role you slip into, and how much are they system acting?

[Bill the barbarian]

6 hours ago, JRE said:

So they traveled around, though they were too laid back and risk averse to be true murder hoboes. It really played as Holiday Genertela, visiting a sizeable part of the continent. It worked really a Jack Vance homage, and it is interesting to see Glorantha as the result of ages of decadence, as well as funny hats and interesting foods. 

 

Jack Vance, I am seeing Moorcock (Jerry Cornelius)!

 

22 hours ago, Eff said:

It sure does, doesn't it? You might even get a whole subgenre of someone living in disgrace coming back and trying to redeem themselves out of this concept. 

and I was nt even thinking of the redemption card... Awesome.

 

[Akhôrahil]

On 9/30/2022 at 2:28 AM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

My issue is what if your character isn't particularly dedicated to anything?  One the fence.  They are just normal?

Many places have ”default” cults. If you’re mostly average and typical in Sartar, you’re likely to worship Orlanth (if male) or Ernalda (if female). Both cults are super wide, and will accommodate the things most people do. They don’t expect you to be unusual or weird. You can worship Orlanth and be a warrior, or a farmer, or a lawspeaker, or a king. The behaviours expected of you are mostly the ones expected of you as a member of society anyway.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Akhôrahil