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Tlalchitonatiuh

Where to begin?

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Good evening (at least where i am haha).  I wanted some advice on where to begin with the over all mythology of Glorantha.  I know the most basics of basics, and being a "student" of mythology (or i was in my by gone college years), i'm fascinated with the concepts of this world. Outside of the game rulebooks (an investment i may make, but i'd have to sell my group on it first) which would be the better place to begin, the mammoth Guide to Glorantha, or the Glorantha Sourcebook?  Thank you all in advance!

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I'd suggest the Sourcebook as it has proportionately more mythology than the Guide and is smaller. The Guide covers more geography, culture and politics, with some cosmology. 

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8 minutes ago, Tlalchitonatiuh said:

which would be the better place to begin, the mammoth Guide to Glorantha, or the Glorantha Sourcebook?

Agree with @David Scott on that - start with the Glorantha Sourcebook.  

That should whet your appetite.  Eventually, when published the RQG Gods of Glorantha (or whatever final title it has) will be a broad source both for myth and for RQG specifics.  In the meantime, you could also try the RQ Classic titles: Cults of Prax and Cults of Terror.  Older texts, but cover additional useful mythology as well as in-world tales that help connect the cults/myths with those who live with them.

Then if you want to go both deep and broad into Glorantha as a whole, the Guide covers everything from the world structure to geography, culture, politics, and all the major regions of the world.

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You might've already picked it up, since you only mention mythology and not the world of Glorantha in general, BUT since you mention the Guide (which is notable in that it intentionally focuses LESS on the mythology compared to the Sourcebook), I feel it's worth mentioning again that the book "Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes" is IMHO the best introduction to the setting to date, at least for covering one of the biggest cultures in Glorantha in down-to-earth detail. That and "Heroquest Voices" for a more "personal" prospective of the world, but note it's been retconned...a lot.

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16 hours ago, redmoongoddess said:

That and "Heroquest Voices" for a more "personal" prospective of the world, but note it's been retconned...a lot.

Some of us prefer the term "alternative facts".

!i!

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17 hours ago, redmoongoddess said:

That and "Heroquest Voices" for a more "personal" prospective of the world, but note it's been retconned...a lot.

Can anyone open this up a bit? (Just the other day I was wondering, "How have the HeroQuest Voices changed over the years?")

  • From what version to what version? 
  • Retcooned in what way?

Thanks!

 

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To the OP: I suggest the Sourcebook. 

It is less expensive, less expansive, and I found it a compelling read that made we want to dig into the central conflicts and cultures of Glorantha.

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6 minutes ago, creativehum said:

Can anyone open this up a bit? (Just the other day I was wondering, "How have the HeroQuest Voices changed over the years?")

  • From what version to what version? 
  • Retcooned in what way?

Thanks!

 

Aeolians are different now. The Panther people (?) don't exist anymore, I think? Heortling terminology is being changed to be less pseudo-Old English. 

Not sure what else.

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8 minutes ago, creativehum said:

Can anyone open this up a bit? (Just the other day I was wondering, "How have the HeroQuest Voices changed over the years?")

  • From what version to what version? 
  • Retcooned in what way?

Thanks!

HQ Voices had essentially one version/revision, that was published as "ISS3001" as a free download pdf. It gives quite detailed credits to the authors and contributors of the various bits.

Quite a bit of that info had been published earlier, or at least the basis of the expanded versions in HQVoices had been.

The earliest of these documents are from RQ3 Gods of Glorantha (What the Priest says) and RQ3 Genertela: Crucible of the Hero Wars (Player's Book), offering the Rathori, Praxian, Orlanthi (Varmandi) and Seshnegi "What my Father Said" documents, with minor corrections edited in (or out, like the mention of the Rokari Ecclesiarch for 1198 ST). The additional material was created for the HeroQuest first edition rules, AFAICR. That's about 10 years before the project to publish the Guide to Glorantha changed how published Glorantha was presented.

The first minor changes to the setting occurred with the publication of HQ2, the setting-less booklet. @Jeff has told how Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes was already a move away from the (permissive strategy of) the HeroQuest 1 canon which had included a lot of fan-generated material (ala fanon) into published canon. But then, Glorantha continued to be developed and researched by Greg in those years, including previously neglected parts outside of the Zola Fel valley. (Other than Dorastor, Griffin Mountain, and a few scenarios, and the two RQ3 world-wide beoxes mentioned above and Troll Pak/Elder Secrets, there was no such material prior to the Hero Wars products.)

Exploration of the Malkioni began with the somewhat medieval look and feel of them from Genertela Book, and the use of "Church" for their philosophical sects.

The piece on the Grazers is probablyl based on the Grazer Culture segment in the Hero Wars rules, where the Grazers served as the sample animist culture of Dragon Pass. The weird sorcery presented for the Black Horse County was not inherited.

The two Stafford Library books dealing with Malkionism (Revealed Mythologies and Middle Sea Empire) both work from the terminology set in RQ3. RQ2 has very little on the Malkioni - two mentions in Cults of Prax (Daka Fal and Issaries sections), a short portion on the Humanist beliefs in Cults of Terror, and a short mention of western lands in Wyrm's Footnotes 11 ("The Sea of Neliom"), and Troll Pak info on Arkat No mention of churches there, or in any of the unpublished Malkioni novels I have seen or discussed.

Data on the East and South was even sparser.  Other than Troll Pak, Gods of Glorantha and The Missing Lands, there was a Fonrit special of Heroes which had a scenario set in Garguna by Sandy, and there is Sandy's campaign log by Jeff Okamoto. That's all outside of Genertela prior to "Introduction to the Hero Wars" for Hero Wars, a book that brought in a whole lot of new ideas. Men of the Sea was the promising start for naval campaigns, providing HQ1 homelands for various coastal cultures, working with the same paradigm that was used to create the other entries for HeroQuest Voices.

The Guide to Glorantha began overwriting such notions, already applying to the Malkoni when the Kickstarter went alive, but then followed by frantic output of new material and details for what was initially covered in The Missing Lands.

Puma People are a weird one-off introduced in HQ1 and never touched again outside of HQ1 and HQVoices. I guess they served as a practical example (or joke) how YGWV looked in actual play.

For the west, the mention of churches became a taboo, just a few years after Middle Sea Empire had been published. The medieval vision of Book of Joy and Kingdom of the Flamesword which had been written more or less towards these conceptions did no longer fit Greg's conceptions of the Malkioni West. Neither did the material written for MRQ (written by authors who had actually read the source material provided by Greg) fit that new (or perhaps older) interpretation any more, either.

And all of this goes even more for the fan material that had been created for How the West Was One and subsequent material built on that, like the various Ralios stuff that grew out of Rise of Ralios.

 

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On 6/4/2020 at 11:01 PM, Tlalchitonatiuh said:

I wanted some advice on where to begin with the over all mythology of Glorantha.

There are also four sources I always forget (others have mentioned some of them):

Prince of Sartar Webcomic (free). I can't over-stress the importance of this. Kalin's depiction of Belintar's otherworld make up is a true Gloranthan marvel.

Both of the following games contain a lot of the mythology, both by A Sharp.

King of Dragon Pass - Computer game. It has a wiki with loads of background : https://kingofdragonpass.fandom.com/wiki/King_of_Dragon_Pass_Wiki

Six Ages - Computer games. Likewise has a wiki: https://sixages.fandom.com/wiki/Six_Ages_Wiki

Finally, the Glorantha resource site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com

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On 6/4/2020 at 11:01 PM, Tlalchitonatiuh said:

the Glorantha Sourcebook

The Glorantha Source Book is an excellent resource.

However, a couple of maps would make it more or less perfect. 

But the maps for the Well of Daliath cover exactly what's missing: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/glorantha-2/map-of-glorantha/

On 6/6/2020 at 9:22 AM, David Scott said:

Finally, the Glorantha resource site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com

As the good David Scott says, there's quite a lot else there on the site.  The Cosmology and History sections from RQ2 Cults of Terror are a good read... 

Enjoy!

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My god, i should have known the level of answers i would get but honestly, I'm blown away. I knew i was in the the right place haha. As an aside, if i were to try and "sell" my group on playing runequest glorantha, what adventure do you all think would be the best to cut out teeth on?

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5 minutes ago, Tlalchitonatiuh said:

what adventure do you all think would be the best to cut out teeth on?

Without a doubt, the adventures in the Gamesmaster Screen Pack: https://www.chaosium.com/runequest-gamemaster-screen-pack/:

Quote

The latter half of the Adventures Book includes three ready-to-play scenarios set in Apple Lane and lands nearby. The first adventure, Defending Apple Lane, pits the adventurers against a savage band of fearsome raiders. Cattle Raid, the second adventure, sends the adventurers to protect a sacred herd of cattle, a seemingly simple task that grows all-too-complex when tribal politics come into play. The last of these adventures, The Dragon of the Thunder Hills, involves dragon magic and old ghosts. Finally, a four-page group of rumors gives ample grist for potential adventure inspiration, and two pages of adventure seeds are ready to be fleshed out into full adventures or run as interesting interludes.

My group really enjoyed these.

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On 6/6/2020 at 2:22 AM, David Scott said:

There are also four sources I always forget (others have mentioned some of them):

 

I am going with David Scott on this question. Great choices and economical. For a start these are great!

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1 hour ago, Tlalchitonatiuh said:

if i were to try and "sell" my group on playing runequest glorantha, what adventure do you all think would be the best to cut out teeth on?

If I were to start a new campaign with new players, I'd probably start with the title adventure of The Pegasus Plateau & Other Stories. I think it captures the ways in which Glorantha is weird and distinct from fantasy Middle Ages really well. That said, the Gamemaster Screen Pack is probably the best entry point for a new gamemaster & players because the adventures are integrated into a mini-campaign.

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Another suggestion for a starting players: Six Seasons in Sartar, which is part of the Jonstown Compendium program. It, too, is a structured campaign. It starts the PCs as adolescents who do their initiations rites and go on their first few adventures. It, too, is an excellent introduction to Glorantha.

Of course, this and the above suggestions all point to different kinds of adventures and sessions. Glorantha handles all sorts of play and story focus. Part of the question is, "What sorts of things do you see the PCs doing?"

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2 hours ago, Tlalchitonatiuh said:

... As an aside, if i were to try and "sell" my group on playing runequest glorantha, what adventure do you all think would be the best to cut out teeth on?

It also depends on your players' backgrounds.

Have they only experienced D&D5e and/or Pathfinder?  The class-and-level format works differently; also, the attritional combat that is d<N>-per level bag-of-hitpoints, vs. RQG's location-based HP's, is a dramatic shift, as is the ubiquity of magic.

Players with a dozen different systems under their belts experience less "culture shock."   😉

 

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4 hours ago, Tlalchitonatiuh said:

My god, i should have known the level of answers i would get but honestly, I'm blown away.

What? It's not even a page and nobody is disagreeing at length, so you got off lightly.

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On 6/5/2020 at 8:01 PM, Sir_Godspeed said:

Aeolians are different now. The Panther people (?) don't exist anymore, I think? Heortling terminology is being changed to be less pseudo-Old English. 

Not sure what else.

(shrug)

You can have different Aeolians (and Seshnelans) if you want: show us all what you came up with. The Puma People still exist, not that anyone cares (Greg wrote their Voices, and I'm not going to erase them). I don't have a dog in any of these Sartarite name fights (Greg originally had Sheriffs and Eorls in Sartar, but if we've moved beyond that, that's cool). Please, share your revisions. I've never seen any, and I'm preparing the 2020 edition now.

Edited by Nick Brooke
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