Gloranthan Underwear

[soltakss]

In another thread, we had

47 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

[1] Please someone start a thread on what underwear people use in different Gloranthan cultures  

This reminds me of a discussion we had on the Gloranthan Digest, or in a dream, about "What Colour were Uleria's Panties?" illustrating that some things were sometimes important and sometimes not important.

I think we should limit this to groin-covering underwear, rather than chest/abdomen-wearing underwear, to retain focus.

So, what major cultures do we have?

Orlanthi (Kilt-wearing): Clearly, they should not wear underwear, but some might cheat, if only to use the Devils in Skirts theme from Carry On Up the Khyber.

Orlanthi (Trews-wearing): Probably wear woollen underwear, for both men and women, as trews chafe

Orlanthi (Tunic-wearing): They might wear underwear, but tunics don't chafe like trews, so not essential. Also, they sometimes wear woollen hose, which does not need underwear, as it is so soft.

Praxians: No underwear, or built-in underwear as a loincloth. They might also wear trews, as Orlanthi. Morocanth generally are naked, as are herd men, so neither wear underwear.

Sun Domers: They wear the Girdle of Chastity, a heavily starched garment that protects their nether regions and chafes to remind them that Yelmalio resisted Inora at the Hill of Gold.

Telmori: They don't wear underwear, as they have quick-removal clothing for when they wolf out.

Dara Happans: They probably wear underwear, to protect them, but theirs are nice and soft, as opposed to Yelmalians' garments.

Ernaldans: Same as Orlanthi, where they dress similarly, but Esrolians might change their clothing often and might have a mixture of wearing and not wearing underwear.

Votanki: Brushed deerskin undergarments, really soft and having that Raquel Welch Million Years BC look

Lunars: They wear togas a lot, so don't need underwear, but can wear if they want

Gorgorma cultists: They wear underwear with little teeth in strategic places

 

Anyone else?

 

[Ian Absentia]

Am I the only one who expected to see "Now 60% off at our Redbubble Store"?

!i!

[Bill the barbarian]

4 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

Am I the only one who expected to see "Now 60% off at our Redbubble Store"?

 

No, but when do they come the remaining 40% off?

[Lordabdul]

17 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Telmori: They don't wear underwear, as they have quick-removal clothing for when they wolf out.

If Joe Manganiello taught me anything, that's very true. And very sexy. 😋

17 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Anyone else?

Mallia cultists: they have only one item of underwear, and they wear it all year long. Every year during a very secret ceremony called "The Great Scratching", they swap it with their fellow cultists.

Also, for those of you that are into stupid internet memes, if a Scorpionman was wearing underwear, would he wear it like on the left or on the right?

17 minutes ago, soltakss said:

I think we should limit this to groin-covering underwear, rather than chest/abdomen-wearing underwear, to retain focus.

Yes, we clearly don't want this topic from going off the rails right away..........

Edited August 20, 2020 by lordabdul

[Nozbat]

36 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Orlanthi (Kilt-wearing): Clearly, they should not wear underwear, but some might cheat, if only to use the Devils in Skirts theme from Carry On Up the Khyber.

As a half-scot I feel I need to let people know that my (Scottish) Great-uncle said, "The only thing worn below kilts is your socks."

Any self respecting Kilt-wearing Orlanthi would never do a Charles Hawtrey and wear any sort of underwear

[Sir_Godspeed]

Trews are just woollen trousers with tartan on it, right? So you're talking about pants? 

I think loincloths are probably pretty common in lots of places, regardless of overgarment. Especially for commoners, and in warmer climes, where overgarments might be optional (Esrolian farmers wearing nothing but a loincloth in the fields strike me as pretty plausible.) 

An additional possibility is a cloth piece, maybe triangular, held in place with string. I think the Egyptians used that? It's also commonly used by different people groups living in tropical environments, like in the Amazon or on Papua New Guinea (though the latter groups might substitute the cloth with a codpiece-gourd) It's effectively sort of a g-string. 

And yeah, some people probably just go without.

[Ian Absentia]

15 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Trews are just woollen trousers with tartan on it, right? So you're talking about pants? 

Yes and no.  They're fundamentally hose or leggings -- how they're held up and/or interconnected is a matter of separate, but related, design and sophistication.  The notorious codpiece was one of those interconnecting pieces employed for either modesty, protection, pride, convenience, or some combination thereof.  Think of modern pants or trousers as the unification of several separate pieces as textile arts and tailoring became more sophisticated, in much the same fashion that sleeves were eventually unified with tunics.

NB:  Developing a seam that doesn't split under stress is a son of a bitch.

!i!

[Leingod]

3 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Also, for those of you that are into stupid internet memes, if a Scorpionman was wearing underwear, would he wear it like on the left or on the right?

Of the two? The one on the left; a scorpion's genital aperture is located near the front of its body, on the first mesosomal segment. The one on the right doesn't cover any of the things that underwear are meant to cover with a scorpion's body plan.

On the other hand, that would still leave the anus exposed, since on a scorpion the anus is right beneath the poison bulb on the tail, where it connects with the last segment (the tail itself essentially just being an elongated, articulated posterior). So if you were really committed to preserving the modesty of this Scorpion Man, the underwear would likely need to come in two pieces rather than one or else would cover virtually the entirety of their lower body. Which would be inadvisable if Scorpion Men still need to breathe through their spiracles, which are located along the segments of the abdomen.

[jajagappa]

22 minutes ago, Leingod said:

So if you were really committed to preserving the modesty of this Scorpion Man, the underwear would likely need to come in two pieces rather than one or else would cover virtually the entirety of their lower body.

Scorpionman bikinis!

[Leingod]

8 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Scorpionman bikinis!

That's the best way to balance modesty with comfort for this particular breed of Chaos monster, yeah. Scorpion Mankinis.

[Sir_Godspeed]

2 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

Yes and no.  They're fundamentally hose or leggings -- how they're held up and/or interconnected is a matter of separate, but related, design and sophistication.  The notorious codpiece was one of those interconnecting pieces employed for either modesty, protection, pride, convenience, or some combination thereof.  Think of modern pants or trousers as the unification of several separate pieces as textile arts and tailoring became more sophisticated, in much the same fashion that sleeves were eventually unified with tunics.

NB:  Developing a seam that doesn't split under stress is a son of a bitch.

Do you mean that they are leggings, then? Attached by strap at the top or something similar? I googled trews, but apparently only modern varieties came up.

Trousers are interesting since true trousers in the modern sense did exist in the ancient world (both celts and persians used them, iirc., and we even have examples of them from the ice age, iirc.), but leggings coexisted with them, evolving, as you mentioned, into medieval hose (sorta) and true trousers. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Sir_Godspeed

[Lordabdul]

1 minute ago, Leingod said:

That's the best way to balance modesty with comfort for this particular breed of Chaos monster, yeah. Scorpion Mankinis.

While I have to admit I didn't do a thorough research of scorpion anatomy before posting that very stupid joke (ok, I didn't do any research), if we have to get serious about this, we first need to establish which parts of the scorpionman are man, and which parts are scorpion, and which parts are a weird mix of the two. It could very well be that the genitals and anus are right there at the front, like a man's would be, and that.... well.... Gloranthan illustrators have so far resisted going with Chaosium's very detailed and very inappropriate art direction documents!

(but hey, I'm happy that I learned something today from this, thank you!)

[Sir_Godspeed]

2 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

While I have to admit I didn't do a thorough research of scorpion anatomy before posting that very stupid joke (ok, I didn't do any research), if we have to get serious about this, we first need to establish which parts of the scorpionman are man, and which parts are scorpion, and which parts are a weird mix of the two. It could very well be that the genitals and anus are right there at the front, like a man's would be, and that.... well.... Gloranthan illustrators have so far resisted going with Chaosium's very detailed and very inappropriate art direction documents!

(but hey, I'm happy that I learned something today from this, thank you!)

I now am envisioning a cheeky human butt right below the stinger.

[soltakss]

11 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Trews are just woollen trousers with tartan on it, right? So you're talking about pants? 

In the UK, pants are underwear, short for underpants, source of much amusement when Americans ask you to take off your pants.

7 hours ago, lordabdul said:

if we have to get serious about this

I thought that was the point of the thread?

[Jeff]

From the forthcoming Sartar Homeland book:

CLOTHING

The common Sartarite has both practical clothing for everyday use and some special clothes for important events. Everyday clothing is usually leather or wool to resist the rugged daily tasks of farming, herding, and hunting. Dress clothes are usually made of fine wool and linen, decorated with furs and, occasionally, feathers. Linings, exotic cloth or furs, and brightly dyed cloth or elaborate patterns indicate wealthier clothing. The Sartarites normally use thong ties or metal clasps (fibulae) to hold things closed; they do not have buttons.

The Sartarites do not have a nudity taboo for either sex. Athletic and cult nudity is seen as a natural concept, and the Orlanthi do not segregate their bathing areas by gender. It is not uncommon for people to carry out tasks wearing only a loincloth, as toplessness for all sexes is a cultural norm. Nonetheless, most people wear clothes for practical reasons or to display status.

Commonly, men wear a long tunic or a skirt. Over this is customarily worn a leather or quilted-wool jerkin and a wool cloak to resist cold and wet. Some powerful holy men go “skyclad” (without clothes, wearing only blue woad body paint). Men tend to have short beards or go clean-shaven. Hair is either cut short or worn long with in braids.

Women typically wear a tunic and a long fringed skirt. It is common for Earth priestesses to wear their tunics open to bare their breasts. As with men, a wool cloak is worn to resist cold and wet. Women typically wear their hair in long locks down to their shoulders (and sometimes their waists), or in braids.

Most people wear heavy-soled leather sandals with a long lace that is wound up the wearer's leg. The poor go barefoot, as do members of certain cults and religious societies.

Headgear is common. Among men, a stout broad-brimmed hat or a felt cap is most common. Women commonly wear a fillet, a hood, or more elaborate headdresses. Many holy people have distinctive headgear, the most distinctive being a high, conical hat with ram’s horns sewn in, often associated with certain Orlanth cults. Men and women both use kohl to rim the eyes, paint eyebrows, and darken eyelashes.

Jewelry is common to men and women, including brooches and fibulae, bracelets, arm rings, finger rings, and necklaces and neck rings. Only women wear earrings. 

[Ian Absentia]

17 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Do you mean that they are leggings, then? Attached by strap at the top or something similar? 

As I understand it, yes.  The technical aspects of clothing and textile arts have developed differently across the world, though, sometimes by happenstance, sometimes out of necessity, so the degree of sophistication varies.

At its most basic, you have a pair of leggings, each hung independently of the other to either side of a loin cloth, presumably from whatever waistband is holding the loin cloth up.  Through development for purposes of comfort, durability, fashion, what-have-you, the pieces are modified and unified toward a single garment.  I mentioned sleeves earlier, which originally were hung from or laced to a yoke worn over or under a tunic, or attached to the tunic itself.  Take a look at a dress shirt or most button-up shirts, and you'll see the vestigial remnant of that yoke and how it was incorporated into a tunic.  Curiously, the codpiece has not been carried forward into modern men's apparel, except perhaps in certain athletic clothes.

Tailoring clothing to a human form that doesn't either destroy the material or unduly discomfort the wearer is a surprisingly sophisticated technical accomplishment, requiring either better materials, better methods, or a better understanding of the human form, and generally a combination of all three.

Where do various Gloranthan cultures rate in terms of the textile arts?

!i!

[Nevermet]

🥺

[Qizilbashwoman]

20 hours ago, soltakss said:

when Americans ask you to take off your pants

when americans ask you to take off your pants you're generally in a situation where they'd like your underwear off as well

[Rodney Dangerduck]

21 hours ago, Jeff said:

Orlanthi do not segregate their bathing areas by gender.

Thanks.  I was wondering about this during the ritual bathing portion of the Pegasus Plateau scenario.

[coffeemancer]

linen braies

[Kloster]

On 8/22/2020 at 7:49 AM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Thanks.  I was wondering about this during the ritual bathing portion of the Pegasus Plateau scenario.

Roman way: No clothes.

[FungusColombicus]

On 8/20/2020 at 4:10 PM, soltakss said:

Lunars: They wear togas a lot, so don't need underwear, but can wear if they want
 

they don't because they want to moon the rest of peoples of Glorantha.

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, FungusColombicus said:

they don't because they want to moon the rest of peoples of Glorantha.

Don't think they want to try that in Elz Ast, or even Yuthuppa during Darkseason (think Duluth, MN for former; Minneapolis, Montreal, or Moscow for the latter).

[Jeff]

On 8/21/2020 at 10:31 AM, Jeff said:

From the forthcoming Sartar Homeland book:

CLOTHING

The common Sartarite has both practical clothing for everyday use and some special clothes for important events. Everyday clothing is usually leather or wool to resist the rugged daily tasks of farming, herding, and hunting. Dress clothes are usually made of fine wool and linen, decorated with furs and, occasionally, feathers. Linings, exotic cloth or furs, and brightly dyed cloth or elaborate patterns indicate wealthier clothing. The Sartarites normally use thong ties or metal clasps (fibulae) to hold things closed; they do not have buttons.

The Sartarites do not have a nudity taboo for either sex. Athletic and cult nudity is seen as a natural concept, and the Orlanthi do not segregate their bathing areas by gender. It is not uncommon for people to carry out tasks wearing only a loincloth, as toplessness for all sexes is a cultural norm. Nonetheless, most people wear clothes for practical reasons or to display status.

Commonly, men wear a long tunic or a skirt. Over this is customarily worn a leather or quilted-wool jerkin and a wool cloak to resist cold and wet. Some powerful holy men go “skyclad” (without clothes, wearing only blue woad body paint). Men tend to have short beards or go clean-shaven. Hair is either cut short or worn long with in braids.

Women typically wear a tunic and a long fringed skirt. It is common for Earth priestesses to wear their tunics open to bare their breasts. As with men, a wool cloak is worn to resist cold and wet. Women typically wear their hair in long locks down to their shoulders (and sometimes their waists), or in braids.

Most people wear heavy-soled leather sandals with a long lace that is wound up the wearer's leg. The poor go barefoot, as do members of certain cults and religious societies.

Headgear is common. Among men, a stout broad-brimmed hat or a felt cap is most common. Women commonly wear a fillet, a hood, or more elaborate headdresses. Many holy people have distinctive headgear, the most distinctive being a high, conical hat with ram’s horns sewn in, often associated with certain Orlanth cults. Men and women both use kohl to rim the eyes, paint eyebrows, and darken eyelashes.

Jewelry is common to men and women, including brooches and fibulae, bracelets, arm rings, finger rings, and necklaces and neck rings. Only women wear earrings. 

BTW, this should make it obvious that a loincloth is the normal underwear for Sartarites. In warm weather, it might be the sole item of clothing.

[Akhôrahil]

16 hours ago, FungusColombicus said:

they don't because they want to moon the rest of peoples of Glorantha.

The Moon Rune in fact depicts this view.