RuneQuest Quickstart - The Broken Tower

[Jason D]

10 hours ago, GamingGlen said:

Her hit location chart is not the same as all the other humans.  Instead of the melee hit location chart, it uses the RQ2 missile hit location chart for humanoids.  Is this intentional?

Yes, she's three meters tall (SIZ 25) so her hit locations are adjusted for combat vs. a human-sized opponent.  

[Jason D]

9 hours ago, styopa said:

Sorry if I'm just not getting it, but considering the benefits are identical, and only the negative consequences vary (they're potentially far worse on the Runic Augment/Passion Inspiration charts) why would anyone use a Runic Augment/Passion Inspiration?  Further, the first suggests that one can use *any* of the Runes, Skills OR Passions for it, while the latter seem to be constrained to Runes & Passions, respectively.

(Also note: passions table talks about ABILITIES being increased by X%, which is misleading - the description states that you can augment skills only?  ie you couldn't increase your STR by +50%)

 

The word "relevant" is key here. You might find yourself in a situation where you'd like to augment but a passion isn't applicable, so a Rune is the way to go. Or vice versa. 

The gamemaster can, and should, veto any attempt at an augment that doesn't make any sense, such as using a Beast Rune for tactical combat, or a Loyalty to something that isn't being threatened. 

[Jason D]

3 hours ago, styopa said:

p18: "Damage Equals or Exceeds Double Location Hit Points: A character cannot take more than twice the possible points of damage in an arm or leg from a single blow: the rest have no effect. Further blows to that limb affect the hit points of the character"

I presume there's a "don't" missing in there?  Ie Further blows to that limb DON'T affect the hit points of the character.(?)

 

2 hours ago, g33k said:

I presume these HP's *DO* apply -- they go onto (come off of) the "general HP's" without any hit-location effect.  It was still a "hit" on the attack roll, after all...

 

 

1 hour ago, styopa said:

That's precisely my question. RQ2 said it did still affect the hp of the character, which didn't make much sense that you could ultimately kill someone by continually stabbing their arm enough times.  Thus why in RQ3, damage beyond the 2x threshold didn't affect body hp - the limb was too mangled for more damage to matter.  

 

 

They do affect the overall hit points of the character suffering the damage. Limbs aren't simple modular components for living beings: they're still full of vital tissue and are still very much "alive", despite being unusable. 

After a limb's taken twice its hit points, it is unusuable, but further/subsequent blows are considered to strike other parts of that limb, causing additional bleeding, wound shock, and trauma, all of which affect the body as a whole. 

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, Jason Durall said:

The word "relevant" is key here. You might find yourself in a situation where you'd like to augment but a passion isn't applicable, so a Rune is the way to go. Or vice versa. 

The gamemaster can, and should, veto any attempt at an augment that doesn't make any sense, such as using a Beast Rune for tactical combat, or a Loyalty to something that isn't being threatened. 

This is important - allowing an augment is in the sole discretion of the gamemaster.

[GamingGlen]

5 hours ago, Jason Durall said:

Anything not covered in the rules explicitly is generally recommended as 5 SRs. That would be a "as quick as I can" dismount, versus a leisurely dismount out of combat. 

I wouldn't require a skilled cavalry soldier to make a Ride check to dismount, any more than I'd have a soldier have to roll to switch weapons. 

And I'm not. It's for a QUICK, as in VERY FAST, dismount, one where you jump off the horse (or other mount) onto your target (like you see in westerns as the cowboy jumps off to grapple his opponent) or to jump off, stand near your target, and swing your weapon at said target.  You can take your sweet time doing it which won't require a roll, and get attacked while doing so, if you want.

[Sean_RDP]

Just want to check...

Sorala's SR with her medium shield is 6 and her SR with her broadsword is 5, but for the others using that combo, the SRs are the same. IS that right and if so, what is the SR of a broadsword and medium shield. Just trying to make sure the math is right.

[styopa]

7 hours ago, Jason Durall said:

The word "relevant" is key here. You might find yourself in a situation where you'd like to augment but a passion isn't applicable, so a Rune is the way to go. Or vice versa. 

The gamemaster can, and should, veto any attempt at an augment that doesn't make any sense, such as using a Beast Rune for tactical combat, or a Loyalty to something that isn't being threatened. 

Maybe I'm not communicating effectively?  I understand the concept of augments.  They make sense.  

 

The problem (as I see it) is that there are basically 2 mechanical methods to augments.   They have the same benefits, but the latter have far worse potential negative consequences.  So why ever use the latter?

To use a concrete example: If I want to augment a resistance roll with a rune, why would I ever use the runic augment method?  

 

Jajagappa explained that the main difference is duration, which is credible...except there's no constraint that I see on how often a character can use the former mechanism augments (that I see?).  

So let's say Rurik is fighting a clan enemy.  He can use 'Hate(Enemy' to try to augment basically every attack roll individually(using the first augment method) OR he can use the Passion Augment that would last for the whole battle.

Except, mathematically, he's FAR better off doing the former.  

If he has a high Hate(enemy) passion, the more rolls he makes the more he'll end up with a result distribution that reflects his Hate(enemy) percent.  A single roll for the combat using the Passion table (even setting aside the catastrophically worse potential results of failure for a second) is a MUCH WORSE choice.  

If he has a low Hate(enemy) passion, then the likelihood of a bad roll is that much higher, so he should preferentially choose the table whose negative consequences are less impactful, (if he uses it at all; mathematically it makes no sense to roll for ANY augment with a skill below 49, as the average result is negative...)

[jajagappa]

46 minutes ago, styopa said:

He can use 'Hate(Enemy' to try to augment basically every attack roll individually(using the first augment method)

As I read it, the first augment method is specifically related to skills augmenting skills.

I think the confusion is on p.2.  This statement: "Where appropriate, abilities—whether Runes, skills, or passions—may be combined to augment one another, using one ability in support of another." is the broad overarching comment that any of these may be augments.

But, this statement and the table below it: "To augment one ability with another, first roll for the ability being used in support of the other." is specific to the use of skills augmenting other skills, not the use of the Runes or Passions as augments which are described and use the tables on p.8-9 respectively.

Edited June 17, 2017 by jajagappa

[g33k]

I'm wondering if these 2 similar methods of Augmentation are included mistakenly?  That is, RQG drafts tried one, then the other, and somehow both made it into the rules even though only 1 mechanic for Augmentation was intended to be presented ... ?

It looks to me like there's a LOT of confusion possible here, both as evidenced above & around a gaming-table when a player meant to use ONE method but the GM understood the OTHER, etc...

 

[g33k]

As a minor(?) issue, the kerning & resolution seems a bit "off" on the "rn" characters in bolded font (where it gives affilation of the Pre-Gen characters):  the "rn" looks "m"ish ... "Ernalda" and "Ernaldori" look far too much like "Emalda" and "Emaldori".

 My eye just skimmed over "Ernalda" and didn't notice, but the tribe-name made me look closer, and then I went back and saw the same flaw on the Goddess name too...   :-(

Edited June 17, 2017 by g33k
clarified

[g33k]

Waha?

Appears as a God for some Rune Spells, pp.22-24:  Dismiss & Summon Elemental (Earth), and Shield.  Ref's to Waha should probably be removed from the QS (he doesn't appear elsewhere, I think)...

 

Seven Mothers?

Vostor is an Initiate (p.44), and Seven Mothers have Rune Spells (pp.22-24) ...  but there's no entry in the "Gloranthan Cults and Gods" box, page 10.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, g33k said:

I'm wondering if these 2 similar methods of Augmentation are included mistakenly?  That is, RQG drafts tried one, then the other, and somehow both made it into the rules even though only 1 mechanic for Augmentation was intended to be presented ... ?

No, I think there are simply Augments with 3 types of abilities that are usable.  A simple heading such as "Augmenting with Skills" after the first paragraph under Augmenting Abilities would resolve most of the confusion, and then the sections on pp.8-9 detailing Augmenting with Runes and Augmenting with Passions make sense.

[tedopon]

Are we discussing the experience after the event has been run in this thread or another one? I didn't want to start a new thread as it seems the CoC stuff all seems somewhat self contained by topic.

I will say that I had concerns ahead of time that this was not a good starting point to get new players interested in the game and the setting. It was definitely a product aimed at existing fans. All my players had fun, but they all complained that it was far too much infodump for an introductory scenario. Four of my players have played multiple iterations of RQ.

Once it's clear where we discuss this, I would like to expand further on things they said and my own observations.

Edited June 18, 2017 by tedopon

[g33k]

3 hours ago, tedopon said:

Are we discussing the experience after the event has been run in this thread or another one? ... Once it's clear where we discuss this, I would like to expand further on things they said and my own observations.

+1 -- I'd love to see a commentary / postmortem thread (or that topic as a continuation in this thread).

Does Chaosium (or the Cult of Chaos community-at-large) have a standard as to same-thread =vs= new-thread?

 

[MOB]

3 hours ago, g33k said:

+1 -- I'd love to see a commentary / postmortem thread (or that topic as a continuation in this thread).

Does Chaosium (or the Cult of Chaos community-at-large) have a standard as to same-thread =vs= new-thread?

 

No, but I'm going to start one

[7Tigers]

On 16/06/2017 at 2:27 PM, MOB said:

Jeff and Jason have complied the following Errata for the RuneQuest Quickstart.

RUNEQUEST QUICKSTART ERRATA

 

I guess the errata will be incorporated into the pdf version, the one available post 1srt of July?

[theWoozle]

having run two sessions, one of the biggest story issues that came up was, what to do with the cow they rescue from the rock lizards. Kill it, Leave it, Bring it... One group seriously considered summoning the ghost of the slain bandit to lead their cow back to the tribe. 

[Pentallion]

The way I understood augments was the former method was for one roll only and didn't allow a skill check.  My ruling was you couldn't keep rolling it for, say, an extended sword fight or multiple first aid.  If you wanted to do that, you had to take the inspiration route.  But since that route was risky you got to mark your rune/passion.

[MOB]

Here's what we're going to do going forward:

Cult of Chaos Forum (password protected) - Discussion, questions, post mortems about "The Broken Tower" scenario in the RuneQuest Quickstart. 

RuneQuest Forum - Discussion about the RQG rules themselves, and the rules as presented in the RuneQuest Quickstart. No discussion or spoilers about "The Broken Tower" please.

[Jason D]

On 6/18/2017 at 2:44 PM, theWoozle said:

having run two sessions, one of the biggest story issues that came up was, what to do with the cow they rescue from the rock lizards. Kill it, Leave it, Bring it... One group seriously considered summoning the ghost of the slain bandit to lead their cow back to the tribe. 

Cousin Monkey bravely volunteers to stay back and watch cow! 

[styopa]

On 6/20/2017 at 4:56 AM, Pentallion said:

The way I understood augments was the former method was for one roll only and didn't allow a skill check.  My ruling was you couldn't keep rolling it for, say, an extended sword fight or multiple first aid.  If you wanted to do that, you had to take the inspiration route.  But since that route was risky you got to mark your rune/passion.

That seems to make the most sense, just needed some clarity in the text as the first one implied it was talking about applicability with Runes, Passions, or skills (at least for me).

[Eric Christian Berg]

A bit late, but here's my post-mortem.

I ran the quickstart for three absolute newbies to RuneQuest. The closest any of them had come was playing Call of Cthulhu. This is the same boat I am in. Two were experienced gamers and one was still pretty new to it (12 years old, gaming regularly for only a year or so). I went over the character sheet with them, covered the basic mechanics, and introduced the augment rules. Didn't go over the skills or spells in depth, since they had their own copies to reference and I told them I'd cover other stuff as they became relevant in play. The introduction to the setting from the book went well and I spent some time answering questions. I had gone over the Dragon Pass timeline in my copy of HeroQuest Glorantha ahead of time, to refresh myself on the details of the various conflicts in their biographies and this proved to be a good call. They chose Vasana, Vostor, and Sorana.

They had no issue getting into the game and picked up the mechanics immediately. I was particularly surprised at how easily they incorporated augments. The first combat ran pretty smoothly, though I had a little trouble keeping track of things as it was my first time running it. The main slowdowns were referencing the chart constantly to determine whether a hit was a critical or a special, and determining and keeping track of strike ranks. Also, the rock lizards having a 25% attack seemed weak. They didn't land a hit in the whole combat (part of that, though, was that only the bison rider rushed up to engage, the others hung back and threw ranged weapons). It was pretty cool, though. Vasana charged up with her bison and impaled one rock lizard with her lance while her bison crushed the skull of another who had fallen after a leg wound from a javelin. Everyone seemed pleased. While Vasana blew her Herd roll to calm the steer down, Vostor's player hit on the idea of singing to it and rolled a critical success. 

The role play with Carthalo was great. Vasana rode him down with her bison but they quickly gained his trust with their concern for the body of the dead Grey Dog (they had already started trying to prepare her corpse, even without the requisite skills). The ritual was awesome. Vostor assisted with dance and augmented with a critical success, allowing Carthalo to get a special success in the ghost summoning. They weathered the night with him afterwards, insisting he take all the provisions they could spare and vowing to either get him an assistant to come stay with him and help out (while learning his wisdom) or take him home and insisting the village take him in. They didn't ask him to come along (on account of his near blindness) but he wished them well and told them all be knew of the Stone Woman. (I did run into the aforementioned issue where one part of the text indicates he has no idea what she is and another gives a big info dump of what he knows which is considerable).

On arrival at the ruined tower, they spotted Varanik and successfully ferreted him out with Detect Life. A called shot to the leg was successful in keeping him from escaping, but Sorala was able to calm him down with a critical Oratory roll (augmented by Harmony). He wasn't much help, of course, being half-mad, but they restrained him so they could take him home for ransom. On entering the tower, Sorala threw a Dispel Magic at Danakos, reducing him to a sobbing wreck of guilt, and then they turned their attention to the Stone Woman. They chose to fight, but after Vasana was grabbed both Vostor and Sorana rolled critical hits and decimated the ancient Earth goddess (the first hit even, coincidentally, struck the arm holding Vasana). Vostor summoned a fire elemental to destroy her remains and the tower the best it could, then they collected up the remaining cattle, their two prisoners, and (on the way back) Carthalo and returned home to much renown.

Overall, everyone seemed very pleased with the game. As I said previously, the main trouble spots for me were the Strike Ranks and the special/critical roll calculation. I wish more d% systems would use Unknown Armies' take on criticals and special successes: 01 is a crit, 00 is a fumble, and matched dice are either a special success or failure. It scales well and requires no math or chart-referencing during the game. As for Strike Ranks, I find them too fiddly (as much as I appreciate what they are trying to accomplish). I prefer Aquelarre's approach, honestly, of all the BRP variants I've seen. I really dug the augment system, particularly with Runes and Passions. It makes the character's personality and motivations really count. As I said, the players took to them like fish to water.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Eric Christian Berg

[Runeblogger]

Well done! What character did the 12-year-old pick?

[Eric Christian Berg]

On 6/26/2017 at 4:22 PM, Runeblogger said:

Well done! What character did the 12-year-old pick?

The one riding the bison, of course!

[Scotty]

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