Ask Jeff! Glorantha Lore questions

[Jeff]

10 hours ago, Puckohue said:

Why's the Pegaus Plateau not called Hippogriff Plateau?

Because of a semiotic in-joke, really. "Pegasus" is commonly used a transliteration of "winged horse" - just ask my 8-year old daughter. But we don't have Bellerophon's trusty steed here. As you know Hippogriff is the original horse - and is winged. So Hippogriff is going to be THE "winged horse" for most people outside of places like Pent. And that way we managed to make Pegasus=Hippogriff, and play around a little bit with the fun of transliteration in fictional languages.

[Jeff]

On 6/5/2020 at 1:40 AM, redmoongoddess said:

(Note: I've not watched the entire stream through yet, so I apologize if most of these are already answered.)

How many pages will da new Sartar book be?

Probably around 150k words. Longer than I expected, but there's a lot there.

On 6/5/2020 at 1:40 AM, redmoongoddess said:

What non-Orlanthi culture do you think will be the first to get an supplement of their own?

Non-Orlanthi? That's a loaded question! Probably the Grazelanders or the Praxians, although they may not count as truly non-Orlanthi. My own movement is towards the Lunar Heartlands, but lets see. 

On 6/5/2020 at 1:40 AM, redmoongoddess said:

Can you give us an idea of what the new Heroquesting rules will play like?

In what context. They are RuneQuest rules for resolving RuneQuest activities - but much of what goes on in a heroquest is the players trying to make sense of the Divine Realm and interact with it WITHOUT A SCRIPT and based only on what they might know from the Cults Book or a short summary of a place from the God Time. So that is what Chris is spending his time on. The easy stuff - what is the Hero Soul, what do we get out of the hero quest, etc. is long done. It is now solving the problem of running heroquests, and how to get out of the KoDP narrative trap. 

On 6/5/2020 at 1:40 AM, redmoongoddess said:

Do you think there'll be any "Masks Of Nyarlathotep" style multi-continent campaigns in the near or far future?

Multi-continental campaigns? Sure. The seas are opened, and the Wolf Pirates and Esrolians are in contact with distant lands. I'd love to have something that ties Nochet, Three Step Island, Doskayo, Jrustela, and Umathela/Fonrit. But first we need some foundations.. 

On 6/5/2020 at 1:40 AM, redmoongoddess said:

Just exactly how many years in advance do you think your current pipeline of published books extends out to?

Two or three. Beyond that things change.

 

On 6/5/2020 at 1:40 AM, redmoongoddess said:

Do you ever get breaks?

Not really.

[Jeff]

On 6/9/2020 at 8:09 AM, g33k said:

The main "party line" in Esrolia, I think, is that Orlanth is the "bad husband," feckless and wandering and never around when you really NEED him.  Hence the "husband-protector" tradition.

Not really. The main party line in Esrolia is that the Earth Mother has many husbands. Orlanth is one of them, and the most relevant in social life. But there are many others and all have their necessary role. Flamal, Yelm, Yelmalio, Argan Argar, Magasta, even Storm Bull - all loved and protected the goddess. But it is self-evident that it is Ernalda the Earth Mother who is the central figure the others dance around. And thus it is self-evident that her priestesses are the central figures in society.

[Jeff]

4 hours ago, redmoongoddess said:

I find it odd that he's not answered any questions for months.

A month, not months. 

[Austin]

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

The easy stuff - what is the Hero Soul, what do we get out of the hero quest, etc. is long done.

Are you willing to elaborate on this? As a gamemaster, I feel that what I need right now for playing my own heroquests is the mechanical end, not the narrative end.

[Lordabdul]

9 hours ago, Jeff said:

The main party line in Esrolia is that the Earth Mother has many husbands.

By the way, how prevalent/important is Esrola's cult and worship in Esrolia? I kind of expected that, given the name of the country, it would be historically more important, but I guess people focused on Ernalda instead because she's less about pure nature and more about politics and communities?

[jajagappa]

11 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

how prevalent/important is Esrola's cult and worship in Esrolia?

Prevalent and important - she is the Grain Goddess and Esrolia is one of the great "breadbaskets" of Glorantha.

I think there's a tendency to think that if Ernalda is important, Esrola must be less; or the other way around.  I don't think that is correct.  Esrolia is the land of the Earth pantheon. In most villages what you will find is the Earth temple (not the Ernalda temple or the Esrola temple).  Certain holy days are more important to one goddess or another; certain holy days celebrate the entire family.  In the larger cities, you'll find multiple temples - often these are important to particular groups or clans/houses or families.  Some may emphasize one goddess more than another.  Ernalda will generally be of greater importance in binding these communities together, but Esrola is of great importance in feeding these communities (she is the land and fields around from which the grain is gathered). 

Ernalda, of course, is the Great Goddess, the Earth Queen, and hence the leader of the Earth pantheon (and the goddess of queens).  But you can't divorce her from her family.

Edit: sorry Jeff!  Didn't realize was your Ask Jeff thread when responding.

Edited July 18, 2020 by jajagappa

[g33k]

15 hours ago, Jeff said:

... in Esrolia ... the Earth Mother has many husbands. Orlanth is one of them, and the most relevant in social life ...

Now I've gotta go citation-hunting.  Because I'm almost certain I read (in recent canon) that Orlanth is the "bad husband" and an "evil god" in Esrolia...

[Sir_Godspeed]

2 hours ago, g33k said:

Now I've gotta go citation-hunting.  Because I'm almost certain I read (in recent canon) that Orlanth is the "bad husband" and an "evil god" in Esrolia...

10k Goddesses certainly makes a hullabaloo about how his temple in Nochet is closed off with a wall, the Grandmothers fret about "him" returning (basically meaning Heortling-style kingship, I think), and emphasises how his main source of worshippers are rural shepherds and the like.

[dumuzid]

 

9 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

10k Goddesses certainly makes a hullabaloo

That was specific to "Harmast's Time," i.e. the era of the Gbaji Wars, when Argan Argar (embodied by Ezkankekko) was still the preeminent husband-protector of Ernalda in Esrolia.  They were still calling Only Old One by his Greater Darkness name, Lord Victory Nightbrother, in the text. I would expect the public position of Orlanth to wax and wane with his acceptability as a husband-protector, which has increased drastically since then.

Edited July 19, 2020 by dumuzid

[John Biles]

3 hours ago, dumuzid said:

 

That was specific to "Harmast's Time," i.e. the era of the Gbaji Wars, when Argan Argar (embodied by Ezkankekko) was still the preeminent husband-protector of Ernalda in Esrolia.  They were still calling Only Old One by his Greater Darkness name, Lord Victory Nightbrother, in the text. I would expect the public position of Orlanth to wax and wane with his acceptability as a husband-protector, which has increased drastically since then.

I could see Belintar playing him up a little to undercut the Grandmothers.  Not totally but enough to help ensure they have someone besides him to hate on.

 

[Sir_Godspeed]

12 hours ago, dumuzid said:

 

That was specific to "Harmast's Time," i.e. the era of the Gbaji Wars, when Argan Argar (embodied by Ezkankekko) was still the preeminent husband-protector of Ernalda in Esrolia.  They were still calling Only Old One by his Greater Darkness name, Lord Victory Nightbrother, in the text. I would expect the public position of Orlanth to wax and wane with his acceptability as a husband-protector, which has increased drastically since then.

The specific map showing a semicirular wall is from Harmast's Time, but some of the other aspects aren't dated, I believe: 

Quote

Orlanth and Esrolia
Orlanth is the “Shadow Aspect” of the Esrolian Grandmothers. Orlanth is always present in Esrolian rituals and myths – Orlanth is inextricably linked to the Allmother. No one in Esrolia would claim that their Ernalda is different from the Ernalda of Hendrikiland, Dragon Pass or Tarsh.  The Good Goddess is the source of all good in the land. Orlanth is only violent, turbulent, cruel, and extremely dangerous. The same is true about his followers. Thus Orlanth must be placated but he can’t be allowed to reestablish his kingdom. This is a source of much psychological insecurity on the part of the Grandmothers. 

The above quote can be taken to be limited to the elite's perspective, not the popular one.

Quote

Shepherds and Hunters
Esrolia is a densely settled agricultural land. Shepherds practice transhumance, moving their flocks from the lowlands of North and South Esrolia into the hills of Longsi Land and the North March. Shepherds form something of a male subculture on the fringes of civilization. They worship Orlanth and Heler and have a reputation for being troublemakers and bandits. They are often villains in popular stories. Esrolia has no wilderness to support large game animals and so has few full-time hunters, those that are have low-status as rabbit or squirrel catchers.

All of this is circumstantial, of course, but the picture it does present Orlanth in a particular fashion.

[Nevermet]

I am curious about the relationship between Kaxtor(plose) and Western culture / religion.

• Kaxtor questions
  • Given that Kaxtor's mother was supposedly Esrola, can we assume he was born before the Dawn?
  • Do we know any details over what made Fodalor & his son Kaxtor leave Herlalia?
• Kaxtorplose questions
  • When did Kaxtorplose become "Western" in its orientation?  At its founding?  During the Gbaji Wars?  When Slontos absorbed it?  Never?
  • If the answer is not "never," did Kaxtorplose remain Malkioni after the Flood?
  • As far as I can see, the only two cities in Genertela that have the suffix "-plose" are Kaxtorplose and Erenplose.  Do we know the relationship between them?

If there is no info, that's fine (I can dump in plenty of personal opinions 😎), but I'm curious what's there.

[Darius West]

Jeff, I have always been curious about the Pavic cult of Iffinbix.  It is apparently an Earth cult that practices sorcery, has square, slope roofed temples which require people to eat agipith roots before entering ( I assume they are filled with poisonous gasses), and likely practice a fair amount of teleport magic.  Iffinbix also seems to be linked to the rise of vampires in Pavis.

Can you tell me anything about the mythology of Iffinbix, or detail about the cult's history after Time, or what it's magical abilities are like?  Was the cult originally from Teshnos, for example?

[Akhôrahil]

What was the Talastari kingship like? Was it a one-off affair with the Lunars attempting to sponsor Opand of Voraneel before that went down in flames, or did it have a precedent in history? Opand is referred to as "first King of Talastar", so that seems to indicate that there were no Talastari kings before him (also supported with Talastar being designated as a Tribal area), and it's also referred to as "the short-lived kingdom" in the Guide.

When Bolthor is referred to (Guide) as "Bolthor Brighteyes, the king of the Talastari" (vol. 1) as well as "King Bolthor of Talastar" (vol 2), does this imply that he claims (successfully?) the kingship of Talastar, or merely that as king of the Bilini he's by far the most important of the Talastari tribal kings? 

(Also, is there a difference between the Bilini tribe and the Bilinings, or is it just a word change over time?)

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

Jeff,

Could you give a quick snap shot of western culture in Glorantha? Since RQ3 Boxed Glorantha set I’ve found it difficult to visualise the culture in terms of an ancient bronze age world. I presume it’s not a medieval world of knights in shinning armour as was hinted at in the RQ3 boxed Glorantha set? How similar or different are they from the look of the Sartarites we’ve seen so well conceptualised in RQG?  Are there any real earth analogies that can help explain their look?  

[Jeff]

On 7/19/2020 at 12:38 AM, g33k said:

Now I've gotta go citation-hunting.  Because I'm almost certain I read (in recent canon) that Orlanth is the "bad husband" and an "evil god" in Esrolia...

Not in the Third Age. Orlanth is one of Ernalda's husbands, and the most widely worshiped. However, their son Barntar is more popular among the Esrolian farmers than Orlanth (who is more popular among herders and is a war god). But the cult is enjoying a resurgence in popularity, likely because of a combination of the large numbers of Sartarite and Heartlander refugees in Nochet, and because the Queen of Esrolia strongly favors it.

[Sir_Godspeed]

3 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Jeff,

Could you give a quick snap shot of western culture in Glorantha? Since RQ3 Boxed Glorantha set I’ve found it difficult to visualise the culture in terms of an ancient bronze age world. I presume it’s not a medieval world of knights in shinning armour as was hinted at in the RQ3 boxed Glorantha set? How similar or different are they from the look of the Sartarites we’ve seen so well conceptualised in RQG?  Are there any real earth analogies that can help explain their look?  

I'm not Jeff, of course, but there is artwork of Westerners in the Guide, if you have it, or are in a position to buy it (admittedly quite an investment).

And you could do, way, way worse than taking a gander at M Helsdon's impressive list of artwork for his upcoming arms & armor book of Western Genertela:
 

The general armor look seems to lean into heavy cavalry cultures of the Pontic Steppe (Sarmatians, Scythians), Sassanid Persians, Northern Indians, etc. 

It's more complicated than that, but that's the jist.

[M Helsdon]

5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

The general armor look seems to lean into heavy cavalry cultures of the Pontic Steppe (Sarmatians, Scythians), Sassanid Persians, Northern Indians, etc. 

It's more complicated than that, but that's the jist.

My artwork is, of course, not canonical, but uses illustrations in canonical sources as a starting point. 

For the West, as Sir Godspeed notes, I tend towards the various Persian Empires, from the Achaemenids to the Sassanids, the Bactrians and Indo-Greeks as a starting point, though for some details I use the Near East. The West certainly has 'knights', but that term describes a cavalryman, and more specifically a noble cavalryman. There's evidence that the Persian 'knights' had their own version of chivalry and heraldry, and a tradition of noble youths being trained within the retinue of a 'knight' but the details are very sparse, and of course these weren't the familiar medieval European chivalry and heraldry... However, wherever you have similar social and martial societies, there are going to be similarities.

But: my assessment isn't canonical.

Edited July 28, 2020 by M Helsdon

[Squaredeal Sten]

Is there a source of Issaries legends suitable for heroquesting as something other than Orlanth's sidekick?  I see the Lightbringers Quest in King of Sartar,and other stuff also provides material for Orlanth, but no such equivalant for Issaries.  What do the poor Issaries do at Sacred time?

 

 

[MJ Sadique]

  

On 8/1/2020 at 5:41 AM, Squaredeal Sten said:

Is there a source of Issaries legends suitable for heroquesting as something other than Orlanth's sidekick?  I see the Lightbringers Quest in King of Sartar,and other stuff also provides material for Orlanth, but no such equivalant for Issaries.  What do the poor Issaries do at Sacred time?

As Harst you may have to go on a Quest like Harst when he try to get the hand of Yudam-aryam's daughter, The core of the quest should be a successive exchange of good/powers with friends to provide something for the Clan of the father-in-law. A good Adventure seed to create some relation and families ties.
As Garzeen, you might follow the Genert Quest as Garzeen hae the duty to Re-assemble all missing piece of the old god because Garzeen try to seduce Fenela, Daughter of Froalar; She is now out of the god reach but as he promised to fullfill her request to reassemble the body of the Genert, Garzeen's follower must do this quest. A good Adventure seed to go suicide your Pc in the desert ! (Cult of prax had a funny little story about this : An excellent scenario intro where a priest try to escape the quest).

As the Cult of Issaries was changed during the second Age by God Learner, another suitable Quest should to restore the god ancient tradition which may be a good adevnture seed for Goldentongue but sadly I don't remember where I read about this... someone else might help (Hilfe  @Jeff ^^)

Reference : Cult of Prax p59 or Le maître des Runes (French version trad)

[JustAnotherVingan]

On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2020 at 4:41 AM, Squaredeal Sten said:

Is there a source of Issaries legends suitable for heroquesting as something other than Orlanth's sidekick?  I see the Lightbringers Quest in King of Sartar,and other stuff also provides material for Orlanth, but no such equivalant for Issaries.  What do the poor Issaries do at Sacred time?

Theres an Issaries heroquest in King of Dragon Pass.

https://kingofdragonpass.fandom.com/wiki/Issaries_the_Concilliator

 

 

[Kloster]

In RQ3, Air metal was Silver (Gods of Glorantha, Cults book p19) and Moon metal was 'none'. In RQG (p50), Air metal is Bronze and Moon metal is Silver.

Similarly, Air color was White and is now Orange, as moon color was red and is still red. As far as I have checked, there is no other change.

My question is: Why those changes?

[Scotty]

3 hours ago, Kloster said:

In RQ3, Air metal was Silver (Gods of Glorantha, Cults book p19) and Moon metal was 'none'. In RQG (p50), Air metal is Bronze and Moon metal is Silver.

Similarly, Air color was White and is now Orange, as moon color was red and is still red. As far as I have checked, there is no other change.

My question is: Why those changes?

@Jeff went back to the original sources.

The original rune colours come the Dragon Pass board game. The Sartarites were always orange. Greg colour coded the pieces, it's also where we get the rune associations of the praxian tribes - Nomad Gods.

As you're likely aware, RQG's root are RQ2 not RQ3. So stepping back to RQ2 and Appendix D. Rune Identities, You'll see that the lunar metal is Silver and the whole row for Air is missing! The missing metal is also Bronze.  GoG was an error.

The missing RQ2 row would have been - Air Orange Bronze Sword Mammal

While in GoG - Air - Bronze / Moon - Silver

[Kloster]

24 minutes ago, Scotty said:

@Jeff went back to the original sources.

The original rune colours come the Dragon Pass board game. The Sartarites were always orange. Greg colour coded the pieces, it's also where we get the rune associations of the praxian tribes - Nomad Gods.

As you're likely aware, RQG's root are RQ2 not RQ3. So stepping back to RQ2 and Appendix D. Rune Identities, You'll see that the lunar metal is Silver and the whole row for Air is missing! The missing metal is also Bronze.  GoG was an error.

The missing RQ2 row would have been - Air Orange Bronze Sword Mammal

While in GoG - Air - Bronze / Moon - Silver

Thanks for the info.