🥔 Gloranthan Potatoes 🥔

[icebrand]

Are there potatoes in Glorantha? What about other American stuff, like corn and tomatoes??? 

Where would this stuff grow anyway? 

If so... Do we have all the Eurasian produce?

[AndreJarosch]

Corn is available in the Lunar Empire and in the Kingdom of Ignorance (in both blood sacrifice is needed for productive growth). 

[Alex]

3 minutes ago, icebrand said:

Are there potatoes in Glorantha? What about other American stuff, like corn and tomatoes??? 

Where would this stuff grow anyway? 

If so... Do we have all the Eurasian produce?

I'm sure there's a seasonal Tom Brady joke to be had about eating members of the Deadly Nightshade family -- which apparently includes mushrooms now (what?).  I don't recall either of those coming up Canonically as such, but I'd assume so, based on Sandy saying that his model for the flora and fauna of Genertela was North America, not Europe.

Maize is well-known -- infamous, some might say! -- as a crop of the Lunar Empire, associated with the Hon-Eel cult and blood sacrifice.

[dumuzid]

i've always thought potatoes as a child of aldrya and lodril, and a staple crop of lodrilli peasants

[icebrand]

17 minutes ago, Alex said:

Sandy saying that his model for the flora and fauna of Genertela was North America, not Europe.

Well, prax is basically a wild west movie setting!!! (At least mine is) You have pol-joni cowboys and nomad natives and all!!! 🤪

[Kloster]

13 minutes ago, icebrand said:

Well, prax is basically a wild west movie setting!!! (At least mine is) You have pol-joni cowboys and nomad natives and all!!! 🤪

Yes. With assorted Spartans, but yes.

[David Scott]

46 minutes ago, icebrand said:

Are there potatoes in Glorantha?

They don't appear in the Guide, do appear in the corners of older publications. My favourite being in Elovare's Blue Moon Heroquest, in Arcane Lore, where the Blue Moon moulds each member of a Heroquest party into a potato and then plants them in soil of Hell.

46 minutes ago, icebrand said:

What about other American stuff, like corn

In Peloria, where Hon-eel is the maize grain goddess.

46 minutes ago, icebrand said:

and tomatoes?

Tomatoes appear in the Guide, but only in Fonrit. But likewise only appear in the corners of older publications.

[Eff]

My understanding is that in canon, potatoes are not grown in Genertela, without any statements about the other continents. In older canon, potatoes were definitely grown in Genertela, and potato bread formed the staple of the charity food provided by the Seven Mothers cult. Maize is definitely present in Glorantha, of course, and was brought back into the Lunar Empire by Hon-eel in 1492. (Possibly it returned to Chen Durel at this time.)

Beans are mentioned a few times in the Guide with reference to Seshnela and Safelster. There are, of course, both Old World (broad/fava beans, soybeans, garbanzo beans/chickpeas) and New World (black beans, navy/haricot beans, pinto beans, kidney beans, lima/wax beans, runner beans, year beans, and tepary beans) plants which are called "beans" and grown for dried pulses (and the fresh legume in the case of soy and haricot beans). Legume and pulse crops in Glorantha as a whole are largely ignored in favor of focusing on the grains, so it probably isn't possible to determine whether we have a genuinely fusional situation where the crops are both American and Eurasian, or an infusional one where maize and possibly a few other American crops have been added to an essentially Eurasian cultivational package. At least, not from the text alone.

Of course, the presence of "peppers" with a plural, rather than the singular "pepper", would tell us we're dealing with the Capsicum and not solely Piperaceae and/or Zanthoxylum plants. The Guide indicates that sweet/bell peppers are grown in Kralorela to the extent that particular cultivars can be world-famous. Which pushes things for me more towards a fusional understanding where any crop can be found wherever in Glorantha it could plausibly be, in my Glorantha(s).

[Qizilbashwoman]

my assumption is that once, there were unique foods in each direction, but they moved as Chaos and settlers and refugees happened.

[Lloyd Dupont]

To pitch in (with common sense, but 0 knowledge of Glorantha) until DNA test are more readily available, or world travelers more common, who is to know whether this modest, hardiest and delicious tuber is indeed a potato, or not?!

Edited December 23, 2021 by Lloyd Dupont

[Ali the Helering]

2 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

To pitch in (with common sense, but 0 knowledge of Glorantha) until DNA test are more readily available, or world travelers more common, who is to know whether this modest, hardiest and delicious tuber is indeed a potato, or not?!

Your Tubers Will Vary?

[Squaredeal Sten]

4 hours ago, Eff said:

My understanding is that in canon, potatoes are not grown in Genertela, without any statements about the other continents. In older canon, potatoes were definitely grown in Genertela, and potato bread formed the staple of the charity food provided by the Seven Mothers cult. Maize is definitely present in Glorantha, of course, and was brought back into the Lunar Empire by Hon-eel in 1492. (Possibly it returned to Chen Durel at this time.) ......

yes, it's right there:

P.95 of the Cult Compendium, Seven Mothers section: 

" C. Mundane Benefits
Members may partake of the Poor Fund at any time
and find potato bread, onions, and red berries (when
in season) to eat once per day there, and also be
allowed to sleep under the roof of the Outer Temple. "

I'd be surprised if the background and history from the Gloranthan publications Greg Stafford actually worked on were to be retracted.   Commentary added, yes. This is unlike game mechanics that is updated and expanded

Is it possible that potatoes,like maize, are identified with the Lunar invaders in Sartar and Prax, but are a staple in Peloria?  And after 1625 potato farmers in Sartar may be suspect as Lunarizers? 

Nevertheless the yield per acre makes potatoes an opportunity for the poor.

[Nozbat]

35 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

And after 1625 potato farmers in Sartar may be suspect as Lunarizers? 

Wait until 1845... the Potato Famine starts... then there will be trouble...

oh.. sorry... wrong world

[EricW]

6 hours ago, dumuzid said:

i've always thought potatoes as a child of aldrya and lodril, and a staple crop of lodrilli peasants

Surely that child would be a hot chilli pepper? 

[dumuzid]

13 minutes ago, EricW said:

Surely that child would be a hot chilli pepper? 

there's room for multiples, he's a randy guy and she's infinitely fecund.  i'm sure the caladralanders have all sorts of interesting stories about how Veskarthan fathered their local flora

[Squaredeal Sten]

2 hours ago, EricW said:

Surely that child would be a hot chilli pepper? 

i always thought chile peppers would be an import from Pamaltela, the southern continent.  Something to make long distance trade worth while.

[Ironwall]

Does flamal get around as much as his wife if so potatoes could be flamal x mountain goddess or mountain god x aldarya in my head makes more sense because peloria is more of a flat land right? Sartar or any other sufficiently mountainous place could be the home of the best vegetable

[Alex]

50 minutes ago, Ironwall said:

Does flamal get around as much as his wife if so potatoes could be flamal x mountain goddess or mountain god x aldarya in my head makes more sense because peloria is more of a flat land right? Sartar or any other sufficiently mountainous place could be the home of the best vegetable

Peloria has a large flattish central river valley, but quite a few major mountain ranges too.  Both wings of the Rockwoods, Hydras, Autumns, Imthers, Tobroses¸ Yolps, Jords, Vons, Brasses, and the Blues/BMP.  Off the top of my head, the Western Rockwoods would make a decent Andes analogue...

[EricW]

For some reason I just got a vision of Storm Bullies ripping a "chaos vegetable" field apart, building a big bonfire, then changing their minds after the potatoes started cooking... 🙂

[Alex]

1 hour ago, EricW said:

For some reason I just got a vision of Storm Bullies ripping a "chaos vegetable" field apart, building a big bonfire, then changing their minds after the potatoes started cooking... 🙂

Conversely, ever left a few spuds in the cupboard too long?  Has "chaos vegetable" written all over 'em!

[Agentorange]

1 hour ago, EricW said:

For some reason I just got a vision of Storm Bullies ripping a "chaos vegetable" field apart, building a big bonfire, then changing their minds after the potatoes started cooking... 🙂

Strange how the chaos vegetables always have to be ritually cleansed by baking them in the ashes of a large purifying bonfire......

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, Alex said:

Peloria has a large flattish central river valley, but quite a few major mountain ranges too.  Both wings of the Rockwoods, Hydras, Autumns, Imthers, Tobroses¸ Yolps, Jords, Vons, Brasses, and the Blues/BMP.  Off the top of my head, the Western Rockwoods would make a decent Andes analogue...

Not quite, due to the particular orogeny of the Rockwoods compared to Alpine upfoldings (a term which covers the Rockies and the Himalaya as well).

The Rockwoods were planted as a fence to separate two populations who were in conflict with one another. For some reason, the Soul Arranger decided to plant the fence so that both populations were cut in half, creating four populations which each had to deal with one of the other populations but lost contact with the other half of their own. Propagating change through the stasis of mountains,I suppose. The result would be deep rock pushing up through the sediment rock left when all the Earth was still covered by the Sea, The Nidan orogeny appears to be similar, if coming from a different seeding mechanism - I think of them as a number of Jolanti downbelow created for the only purpose of standing up and cutting apart the Kachasti realm into a northern (Fronelan) and a southern (Ralian) portion, using a pre-existing range of soft hills for deiineation. Presumably the watershed between Frona and Ralia, even though that meant the direction the water crept inland from rather than the direction it drained.

An Alpine upfolding happens when two tectonic plates collide. While there is usually some subduction involved (ongoing earthquakes, possibly some vulcanism, at least on the subducted side), the typical feature of an Alpine orogeny is three chains of mountains - two (usually chalky) ranges where sedimentary rock is lifted up, leaving the sedimentary layers (chalk, limestone) at an almost vertical orientation, inducive for sierras, and a central massif of rock from deeper layers pushed up in between. Those highest mountains of that range usually occur in that central range.

Between these ranges, you find a collection of upland valleys like in the Andes.

A mountain range which seems to have these high valleys, or at least a single range of those, are the Shan Shan mountains, which were raised by Tada from the west and by some Kralori dragon emperor from the east, creating two ridge lines.

The orogeny of the other mountains varies. Yolp and the Brass Mountains are of Lodrilic origin, and Gerendetho's mountain (nowadays the stump of the Hungry Plateau and the debris of the Jord Mountains) probably is, too. I have no information on Imther, but volcanic origin combined with a general upward push is likely, too. The Jernotian range has Turos involved.

Tobros is a giant lying there, asleep. The Eastern Rockwoods have sleeping giants, too, whereas we know the hills south of Aggar to be of Draconic influences. (There is a lesser race of giants, there, too, Boshbisil's kin and ancestors.)

I don't know enough about the origin of the Autumn Mountains, or any other mountain or hill ranges I might have missed.

[Tindalos]

The potato's range is across southern coasts from Kethaela to Seshnela, and like corn it is fed with blood.

Spoiler

Scolopacidae potato cruentum that is!

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Tindalos

[soltakss]

On 12/23/2021 at 5:38 PM, icebrand said:

Are there potatoes in Glorantha?

Yes, one of the cults has dietary restrictions of not eating, or must eat, potatoes.

In my Glorantha, Dorasta's original plant was the potato, or a yam-like variant.

On 12/23/2021 at 5:38 PM, icebrand said:

What about other American stuff, like corn and tomatoes??? 

Forn is sacred to Hon-Eel and is a Lunar crop, fed with blood.

Tomatoes figured in a myth of a Lunar concubine on the Moon, so I have no idea if that is official or not.

On 12/23/2021 at 5:38 PM, icebrand said:

Where would this stuff grow anyway? 

In the ground.

There is no reason why these would be widespread, they could be in little local pockets. Someone could go to the Otherworld and bring back a kind of plant that can then grow. Several people doing this means that it grows in different areas.

On 12/23/2021 at 5:38 PM, icebrand said:

If so... Do we have all the Eurasian produce?

All, maybe, maybe not.

Some, certainly.

As far as I am concerned, if you want a crop such as millet then pout it into an area.

 

[Darius West]

If people want to avoid splitting hairs, there is every chance that the shuffling about of various food crop varieties across Glorantha is all a product of the God Learners.  They went to distant reaches of the world and brought back exotic crops which they no doubt offended the gods by seeking to plant in areas that had never known them before.  Has it occurred to no-one that this might be part of what the whole Goddess Swap experiment might have been about?  The point being, that the Earth pantheon that supports plant life is quite prepared to support even foreign plant life, and it only becomes a problem when matters are taken too far, and reliable staple regional crops are replaced by interlopers.

For my money, there is no doubt that there are potatoes in Genertela, and quite possibly across most of the known world as well. 

Remember that Glorantha is a world whose sentient populations suffer periodic apocalypses and much knowledge of things is lost during these events, and the surviving populations will have only myths to explain why the world is as it is thereafter.