Why does a gloranthan fall ?

[French Desperate WindChild]

Reading the topic  about slow spell I have now this question in mind 

as glorantha is not spheric, the irl gravity law cannot apply 

so how can we explain people fall ? What force and or myth defines that if you are in middle air you should quickly learn Fly spell if you want to survive ?

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by French Desperate WindChild

[Ali the Helering]

Refer to your nearest flat-Earth pundit for their latest theory. I have a fondness for one propounded at a recent conference, that the world is flying upwards. 🤣

[Akhôrahil]

Because it's down, sheesh! 🙂

(I wish I could go with the Greeks and say that you're pulled towards the center of the Earth Cube, but this wouldn't make sense in the way it does for a spherical world, and also, you couldn't fall into Hell in this case. Plus Hell would be upside-down, which while hilarious, isn't supported.)

[Akhôrahil]

54 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

Refer to your nearest flat-Earth pundit for their latest theory. I have a fondness for one propounded at a recent conference, that the world is flying upwards. 🤣

Accelerating upwards? Better hope it doesn't hit anything after accelerating by 1 g for 1625 years!

[soltakss]

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

so how can we explain people fall ?

Take you pick of several theories, there are probably many more:

1. The earth exerts a pull on you
2. Uleria/Gata/Glorantha loves us all and pulls us close
3. Because we do

I prefer Option 3.

[7Tigers]

You can also look at:

and from old forum:
https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/wp-content/uploads/www.glorantha.com-forums/www.glorantha.com/forums/topic/glorantha-metaphysics-and-gravity/index.html

in the later:
 

Quote

Jeff Richard:
There’s plenty of in-Gloranthan theories about the movement of bodies with mass. The most popular among Malkioni and Theyalan scholars is that the elements seek to find their natural place. Thus things strong with Earth (such as a human body) moves downward towards the bottom of the Earth cube, which is its natural place. Conversely, the elements Air and Fire, move by the nature upward towards the Middle Air or the Sky, respectively.

 

[MJ Sadique]

5 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Reading the topic  about slow spell I have now this question in mind 

as glorantha is not spheric, the irl gravity law cannot apply 

so how can we explain people fall ? What force and or myth defines that if you are in middle air you should quickly learn Fly spell if you want to survive ?

Like 7Tigers said, Most Gloranthan Scholars use the theory of four elements. Earth element is attracted by other earth elements, which is the gravity theory in itself; Glorantha is not sphere as Earth is a square or a cube in three dimensional view... Mathematically or should I say : by the sorcery laws, it's all the same calculus (equations) with a different point-of-view. The greek classical element theory will provide you explanation (mainly Aristotle theories). Don't forget that there is other spherical "earth" element like the body of the redmoon, The Red Planet of the God of war (Tolat) is also a sphere...

To some extend you can also understand that
-The Light follow a curve to get back in the sky, explaining earth curve-like horizon and why you see a boat higher part from far...
-The Fire is upper the air so a hot ballon will rise a top the sky until attaining the sun
-The Air : If you possess a lot of the air element in you, you "Float" in the sky as a fish float in the water. So Flying spell grant you good air affinities and to move, you need wings or winds.
-The Darkness is the lowest element and the heaviest part (look at lead)...

So you will need a sorcery spell to get you an air affinities to float and some wings or a Worli elemental (Sorcery air elemental name). Flying in the sky is not a sorcery thing, dissipate air-based-magic with high range is a sorcery thing... Sorcerer are mean !!! 🤣

[M Helsdon]

It is because of attraction. Obviously an expression of Uleria.

[Ali the Helering]

5 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

It is because of attraction. Obviously an expression of Uleria.

I was hesitant to suggest that Ga sucks, but...... 😕

[dumuzid]

We fall because the Chaosium that lies beneath Nakala, the Primal Darkness, calls us back towards nothingness.  The womb of Nakala birthed other elements to put buoying Water and solid Earth between us and the maw of Chaos, so that there are things to keep us from falling through formless Darkness into oblivion.

[MJ Sadique]

36 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

We fall because the Chaosium that lies beneath Nakala, the Primal Darkness, calls us back towards nothingness.  The womb of Nakala birthed other elements to put buoying Water and solid Earth between us and the maw of Chaos, so that there are things to keep us from falling through formless Darkness into oblivion.

Return to nothingness... ah  these uz... !😅

MODE "Aldryami trooling a uz" ON ! 😁

Only for you, uncivilized trolls,
We Vronkal are proud child of Gata,
If you want to return to nothingness,
Ours Bows will promptly help you,
Just say "AHHH" and swallow ours arrows ! 🤣

[Sir_Godspeed]

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

It is because of attraction. Obviously an expression of Uleria.

This debate was heavily politicized in 2nd Age Ralios where several scholarly works were circulating attempting to find a good answer:

Treatise on the Uleric Properties of Tangible Bodies  

A Retort to the Ulerification of Gross Lodeism in view of Abyssal Nakalic Origination 

A Reaffirmation of Uleric Principles of Similarence 

And of course the deeply heretical Precedence for the Theurgy of "Uleria-Nakala" for the purposes of Physeickal Agglutination.  

EDIT: The epistle Countering the Matriarchal Views of Bodily Distribution Within the Cosmos-so-Ordered by way of Promaltic-Dazerenic Rejectivity and Oppressiveness did not receive much of an audience, as the Pelorian sky gods were too poorly understood at the time.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Sir_Godspeed

[Lloyd Dupont]

9 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

Refer to your nearest flat-Earth pundit for their latest theory. I have a fondness for one propounded at a recent conference, that the world is flying upwards. 🤣

Strange as it might be, this is quite close to general relativity that state, with simple experimental evidence that I could relate if needed, that one does not feel the pull of gravity, instead it is space that is space itself that is going down due to gravity, pulling us with it!
So, it's kind of similar!  

[Lloyd Dupont]

8 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Accelerating upwards? Better hope it doesn't hit anything after accelerating by 1 g for 1625 years!

have no fear, it would be limited to the speed of light anyway!  

[Eff]

We really need four or five explanations of why people fall in Glorantha. 

1. (Theistic) Uleria's Love holds the universe together, and those things she Loves mostly strongly have the least ability to move away from her. Curse Uleria, and her clinginess!

2. (Logical/Humanistic) Like attracts to like. Humans are primarily made of Earth and Water, and so they are pulled towards the center of the cube of Earth. Humans have large proportions of Fire and Air, so they stand upright, unlike snakes or fish. And when they sleep, they lie down, because the Darkness within pulls them towards the Underworld. If we had but bodies with water that was also Fire, we might fly. 

3. (Animistic) Humans pull upon the spirits of the earth whenever they walk, trying to lift them away with their feet. The spirits pull back, and because they are much larger than people, the people stay on the ground and the spirits are not pulled away by our feet. Unless you know the right trick to it.

4. (Mystic) We do?

5. (Lunar) We fall so that we know how it feels to fall, and from that knowing, we shall fly. 

[David Scott]

This has been a long debated topic amongst the community.

Have a look at some historical perspectives in the digest here:

https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/swish-wrap.cgi?query=gravity&submit=Search!&metaname=swishdefault&sort=swishrank

My personal view, is that it's an aspect of Ernalda that can be manifested and focused as Kadone the Grounder:

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/k/kadone-the-grounder/

[Jeff]

Who is asking and why? The most likely answer is that is the way the cosmos is structured, with Earth pulling things down.

[creativehum]

The earth loves us, and holds us close.

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 7/27/2020 at 12:07 PM, Jeff said:

Who is asking and why? The most likely answer is that is the way the cosmos is structured, with Earth pulling things down.

Me, not a gloranthan, and only by curiosity (note that I understand both your question and your answer)

[Erick Eckberg]

I see these musing a lot regarding Glorantha: What does the horizon look like, why are there seasons, how could gravity work, etc.  The thing is, Glorantha represents what ancient peoples, whose lives were based in magic and myth, rather than science viewed the world they lived in.  They assumed the world was flat because that's how it appeared, they didn't ponder the horizon.  Gravity worked because it just did, otherwise everybody would float around. There are seasons because that's how the gods have things set up.  It requires no further musings.  Glorantha was never imagined to be a scientifically viable environment.  It's the place of fairytale, dreams, magic.  Not facts, science, and physical laws.  So, my advice would be to wash that gravity non-sense out of your helm and trust that Orlanth will make sure you don't hit the ground.  Too hard.   

[Akhôrahil]

Bonus question: how strong is gravity on the surface of the Red Moon?

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

Bonus question: how strong is gravity on the surface of the Red Moon?

It keeps you from falling up.

[Hijabg]

On 7/26/2020 at 7:42 PM, Eff said:

We really need four or five explanations of why people fall in Glorantha. 

What about a sixth ?

6. (dramatic) According to Eurmal, people fall for Katagelasticist or schadenfreudian reasons: they fall because it makes us laugh. 

 

[EricW]

Is the underworld upside down? So if gravity pulls towards Gata, does the Styx flow on the underside of the Earth? 😉

[FungusColombicus]

On 7/26/2020 at 9:21 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

Reading the topic  about slow spell I have now this question in mind 

as glorantha is not spheric, the irl gravity law cannot apply 

so how can we explain people fall ? What force and or myth defines that if you are in middle air you should quickly learn Fly spell if you want to survive ?

 

Not Gravity as we understand it... is the heavens pushing everyone down, you know... keeping everyone in its place.